VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 13.1 BETA] [Eva Kiss]

[mommysboiii]

I hope during MMA tournament you can fuck cindy in Locker room while wade waits at the seating area.

and i hope he will get cucked with holly or cindy if he performcse very bad in fight or lose a bet because ivy is evil

 

[mommysboiii]

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Hi guys,

When it rains it pours, or so they say. Last time I told you about how I was falling behind with ORS' production due to burnout and some other issues and now I got the "unspecified virus of unknown origin", I've spent most of the week in bed feeling like shit, so production hasn't exactly ramped up.
I've been thinking about it for a while and I've decided that starting February I will put all charges on my page on hold. I feel I'm not giving you enough value for your money at this moment and it doesn't sit right with me.

I've said in the past that I'm the one looking forward to new releases the most, and that I really wish I could still publish every single month. I can't wait to realize the ideas I have for ORS and there are also several other projects in the back of my mind I'd love to bring to life at some point too. Taking too long to release a new chapter becomes stressful to me, especially considering this business model: a monthly subscription deserves to be rewarded by a flow of continuous content, and ORS is far from a finished piece. That means that work is never over, and as soon as the last chapter is released, pressure to get the next one ready starts lighting a fire under my feet. I've already talked about it in previous posts, but after more than 4 years of uninterrupted work and due to other personal issues, I found myself feeling quite burnt out after Chapter 9.

I know some of you kindly warned me about that pitfall but I guess I just ran with it because that was the only way I was able to keep myself on the loop, and I still stand by that choice. And because I want to get back in that loop, I want to feel at ease to keep working on this big project. I take your support really seriously, so the constant anxiety of delivering content worthy of your hard earned money has been eating at me. I'm not sure if I'm shooting myself in the foot here, but I think it's the right thing to do and it'll help me get back into things with less stress

I haven't been able to do that recently, so I'm looking to turn that around. So rest assured I will continue to work to bring you quality content and finish ORS like I've always intended to do. The review of the first 9 chapters + Stan's integral rework should not take much longer (it's already taken too long), followed by that Steam release I always talk about and I haven't been able to make a reality yet.

This was hard to write, I hope I did a good job. I know this is far from ideal and I hope I didn't make things sound worse than they actually are. There's a lot of cool stuff coming for ORS, I just want to get it out more efficiently. As always, I want to keep things open and transparent when it comes to the game's development. I'll keep you posted, so stay tuned for next week.
Thanks a bunch guys!

--------

 

[BloodyMares]

If she had full script beforehand, she could tell does she like it or not after rereading it.

One question. WHEN would you expect her to write the entire outline for the full game? After finishing GGGB, she didn't have 1 or 2 years break to flesh out the complete multi-branching script like big-name authors and script-writers of AAA production do. And if you talk about TV shows, there are still around 6-months breaks between ending the first season and working on the next. And scriptwriters have an entirely different schedule - their work is complete before the shooting and other production starts.

Here, Eva is the entire production crew plus the "guy in a suit" who has to worry about marketing and PR etc. She doesn't have the luxury to rest and write for the next chapter while an art director comes up with sex scene compositions and finds references for background art etc so that the artists could work on the art and finally the coders convert written text into the Ren'py script. For now, she only has the colorists to help her, a coder, a proofreader, and a couple of slaves (yours truly and Lara) to work on the gallery and test bugs. Everything else requires a constant stream of production.

No, you keep taking the conversation down different paths. The original point was that the Dev's income has no impact on a discussion of how the game is written. This is just a business transaction, the Dev offers a product and I, as a consumer, decide if I want to buy it or not. I don't give a damn about if the Dev operates at a profit or a loss, that's their problem.

Except it wasn't the original point of the conversation. The original point is that Eva has patrons waiting for her continuous releases. Her patrons get charged up-front each month by Patreon and it was a suitable model for GGGB because the releases were much shorter and the production was faster. But once you pick a charging method on Patreon, you can't undo it, even if you'd like to and you're stuck to that release model. So your fantasies about Eva getting paid per finished update don't address this point at all. There's nothing that can be done about it except pausing the payments (as she did) when you're struggling with delivery. You say you don't give a damn about dev's losses, but do you care about the game's quality? Because you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[SharkVampire]

One question. WHEN would you expect her to write the entire outline for the full game? After finishing GGGB, she didn't have 1 or 2 years break to flesh out the complete multi-branching script like big-name authors and script-writers of AAA production do. And if you talk about TV shows, there are still around 6-months breaks between ending the first season and working on the next. And scriptwriters have an entirely different schedule - their work is complete before the shooting and other production starts.

This is a weird question, since I already told what I think about it in my previous posts. As I corrected myself in third post, the small script still would do a thing, and it won't take an year or so, but since I found her interview and read it again, all this discussion is pointless. She believe that the way she doing things suits her the most, her "compass" approach. Well, I'm not judging that, lets the result will speak for itself. As I said before, I won't be surprised in the future delays and more burnouts.

You know, I also read other developers and the way they managing their games, and the ones who talked about their workflow, almost all of them said that they have a plan of the story. I don't know how detailed they script is, but to me it seems like a natural thing to do when making a game. I also see developers releasing a new game after the previous one is finished only after some time, from six months to a year, and I assume, they spent that time putting together a detailed plan for their game, not just vacationing in the Bahamas.

But, to be honest, I don't see much point to discuss this further, because she not gonna read this anyway (Her absence on this forum has always frustrated me), and hence will not judge the thought that has been spoken.

 

[Eyser]

It may be a silly question to ask, but since so many different ways of naming versions are used by other games... does version 0.9 mean it is 90% done or 9% done? Roughly speaking of course and without a request for a release date which would be insane to ask.
GGGB is an awesome game and prefer to wait for the finished product and curious whether it is close to final or still just in the very early stages of development.

 

[DavDR]

One question. WHEN would you expect her to write the entire outline for the full game? After finishing GGGB, she didn't have 1 or 2 years break to flesh out the complete multi-branching script like big-name authors and script-writers of AAA production do. And if you talk about TV shows, there are still around 6-months breaks between ending the first season and working on the next. And scriptwriters have an entirely different schedule - their work is complete before the shooting and other production starts.

Here, Eva is the entire production crew plus the "guy in a suit" who has to worry about marketing and PR etc. She doesn't have the luxury to rest and write for the next chapter while an art director comes up with sex scene compositions and finds references for background art etc so that the artists could work on the art and finally the coders convert written text into the Ren'py script. For now, she only has the colorists to help her, a coder, a proofreader, and a couple of slaves (yours truly and Lara) to work on the gallery and test bugs. Everything else requires a constant stream of production.



Except it wasn't the original point of the conversation. The original point is that Eva has patrons waiting for her continuous releases. Her patrons get charged up-front each month by Patreon and it was a suitable model for GGGB because the releases were much shorter and the production was faster. But once you pick a charging method on Patreon, you can't undo it, even if you'd like to and you're stuck to that release model. So your fantasies about Eva getting paid per finished update don't address this point at all. There's nothing that can be done about it except pausing the payments (as she did) when you're struggling with delivery. You say you don't give a damn about dev's losses, but do you care about the game's quality? Because you can't have your cake and eat it too.

When you buy a car are you concerned about the manufacturers bottom line? How about the place you buy your groceries? Do you get pangs of guilt when you shop at another market? Or how about a streaming service like Netflix, are you a loyal supporter or do you switch back and forth between streamers after you binge your favorite episodes?

This is a business transaction. Eva offers a product for sale and I choose to buy it for not, that's all.

 

[BloodyMares]

It may be a silly question to ask, but since so many different ways of naming versions are used by other games... does version 0.9 mean it is 90% done or 9% done? Roughly speaking of course and without a request for a release date which would be insane to ask.
GGGB is an awesome game and prefer to wait for the finished product and curious whether it is close to final or still just in the very early stages of development.

It would be the latter, but not an accurate percentage. The version number corresponds with the chapter number for easy association. So v0.9 = Chapter 9. Chapter 10 will be v0.10. We don't know how many chapters in total it will take yet, around 20 - 40. So if v0.30 would mean the game is 95% complete, v0.9 means that it's only 25-30% complete.

 

[Firraxa]

It would be the latter, but not an accurate percentage. The version number corresponds with the chapter number for easy association. So v0.9 = Chapter 9. Chapter 10 will be v0.10. We don't know how many chapters in total it will take yet, around 20 - 40. So if v0.30 would mean the game is 95% complete, v0.9 means that it's only 25-30% complete.

The GGGB 1'5 years.

 

[BloodyMares]

When you buy a car are you concerned about the manufacturers bottom line? How about the place you buy your groceries? Do you get pangs of guilt when you shop at another market? Or how about a streaming service like Netflix, are you a loyal supporter or do you switch back and forth between streamers after you binge your favorite episodes?

This is a business transaction. Eva offers a product for sale and I choose to buy it for not, that's all.

You're on a pirate forum so your transaction example is irrelevant. You don't choose to buy it or not, you're choosing to play it regardless which makes not only your point not helpful but also hypocritical. Either you don't care about this creator / game and you don't play it, or you play it because you enjoy it and want it to improve. Not caring about the creator's financial success, whose game you're enjoying for free, and trying to give business advice to the said creator at the same time is just extremely disrespectful.

 

[DavDR]

You're on a pirate forum so your transaction example is irrelevant. You don't choose to buy it or not, you're choosing to play it regardless which makes not only your point not helpful but also hypocritical. Either you don't care about this creator / game and you don't play it, or you play it because you enjoy it and want it to improve. Not caring about the creator's financial success, whose game you're enjoying for free, and trying to give business advice to the said creator at the same time is just extremely disrespectful.

First of all, just because I post on this forum is an irrelevant point. I have supported several campaigns on Patreon, including ORS.

Second, I don't see Eva Kiss on this forum. I'm debating with you and other posters here.

Finally care about the game? Why should I or anyone CARE about a game? This is just a product. And given that it's sold on Patreon, a product that's sold for a wildly exorbitant price.

 

[patachoucs]

First of all, just because I post on this forum is an irrelevant point. I have supported several campaigns on Patreon, including ORS.

Second, I don't see Eva Kiss on this forum. I'm debating with you and other posters here.

Finally care about the game? Why should I or anyone CARE about a game? This is just a product. And given that it's sold on Patreon, a product that's sold for a wildly exorbitant price.

Ah, the age old misconception about Patreon (and patronage).

By supporting Eva, you're not "buying a product". That's actually a benefit, a side-effect if you will (and yes, a much needed incentive).
But the philosophy behind patronage is that you like someone's work/craft and want to help them being able to live from it or at the very least make more of it.
That's why for exemple, it's not requested that as a dev you must give updates to low tiers supporter (even tho they might have ended up giving you a lot of money over the years). Because you're not buying shit. You're supporting someone.

Of course, in the end, you do it with your interests in mind (you want more games, more art, more music, more whatever it is that artist is producing) and you expect to get some of it. But it's not like there's any other time constraint than whatever it is you decided was acceptable. There is no contract between you and the creators.

So be all pissy about whatever is really useless. If you don't like the way she does things, you don't support her and that's it. Truth is Patreon works just as intended with how she does her project. It allows her to live from her dev work, while working on it (because she has no big studio behind her to pay for games developpement).
That you don't like it, well... That's a you problem.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

When you buy a car are you concerned about the manufacturers bottom line? How about the place you buy your groceries? Do you get pangs of guilt when you shop at another market? Or how about a streaming service like Netflix, are you a loyal supporter or do you switch back and forth between streamers after you binge your favorite episodes?

This is a business transaction. Eva offers a product for sale and I choose to buy it for not, that's all.

At least try to learn how patreon works before talking nonsense.

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

No, you keep taking the conversation down different paths. The original point was that the Dev's income has no impact on a discussion of how the game is written. This is just a business transaction, the Dev offers a product and I, as a consumer, decide if I want to buy it or not. I don't give a damn about if the Dev operates at a profit or a loss, that's their problem.

You jumped into an ongoing discussion on whether the developer should write the whole script in advance to avoid doing rewrites, where I pointed out that it probably isn't a viable option for a developer like Eva because it would significantly affect her followers count. That's the main point I've been making since the beginning, so the one taking the conversation down different paths isn't me.

Your choice to support the developer or not is just a business transaction, of course. No one has claimed anything else. But just because you consider the developer's finances as "their problem", it doesn't mean it won't affect the game's development. Eva will obviously choose a way to develop the game that takes into account both the game's quality and how they can make sure they're earning enough to make a living. For some reason you're talking about two different topics as if they're the same thing: the actual conditions the game is created under, and your own choice to support them or not.

Apart from that I consider myself done with this discussion now, as it's obvious we're not getting anywhere, and I suspect it's starting to get boring for everyone else — and for me as well, to be honest.

 

[DavDR]

Ah, the age old misconception about Patreon (and patronage).

By supporting Eva, you're not "buying a product". That's actually a benefit, a side-effect if you will (and yes, a much needed incentive).
But the philosophy behind patronage is that you like someone's work/craft and want to help them being able to live from it or at the very least make more of it.
That's why for exemple, it's not requested that as a dev you must give updates to low tiers supporter (even tho they might have ended up giving you a lot of money over the years). Because you're not buying shit. You're supporting someone.

Of course, in the end, you do it with your interests in mind (you want more games, more art, more music, more whatever it is that artist is producing) and you expect to get some of it. But it's not like there's any other time constraint than whatever it is you decided was acceptable. There is no contract between you and the creators.

So be all pissy about whatever is really useless. If you don't like the way she does things, you don't support her and that's it. Truth is Patreon works just as intended with how she does her project. It allows her to live from her dev work, while working on it (because she has no big studio behind her to pay for games developpement).
That you don't like it, well... That's a you problem.

Oh not this shit again. The 'Philosophy of Patreon' (LOL) is a scam. They sell products and services. This has been established in court's all over the world after Patreon lost a series of court cases for avoiding paying sales tax. Look at their tier system. The rewards that 'Patron's' receive for giving more each month are all based around recieving the product sooner. Without the product nobody would bother with giving money to Patreon in the first place. Also, look at the debate you just jumped into. Bloody Mares called this a 'Pirate Site'. What exactly are they pirating if there is no product? So spare me your condescinding lectures.

 

[DavDR]

At least try to learn how patreon works before talking nonsense.

Maybe you should take your own advice.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

So spare me your condescinding lectures.

You, of all people, calling someone out for condescending lectures is what we call irony.

 

[ename144]

When you buy a car are you concerned about the manufacturers bottom line? How about the place you buy your groceries? Do you get pangs of guilt when you shop at another market? Or how about a streaming service like Netflix, are you a loyal supporter or do you switch back and forth between streamers after you binge your favorite episodes?

This is a business transaction. Eva offers a product for sale and I choose to buy it for not, that's all.

That's a very shortsighted point of view. Why would I want to buy a car from a manufacturer that will be out of business within a year? Repairs would be a nightmare. There is a larger context than just getting a product for the lowest possible price (much less getting a single installment of a larger whole).

Finally care about the game? Why should I or anyone CARE about a game? This is just a product. And given that it's sold on Patreon, a product that's sold for a wildly exorbitant price.

Except it's not an exorbitant price. It's $6.50 for an update (or the entire game, if you haven't played before). You get up to one month's worth of sneak peeks or development posts, to boot. If you want to continue supporting Eva between updates you can, but you're the one who insists you don't need to care about the long term viability of her business model.

If all you want is the product, the price is more than reasonable.

 

[GrigoriRasputin]

Out of curiosity what do y'all think will be in chapter 10? I guess it is obvious we'll see content for the characters absent in the previous update, but I'm hoping for more progress with Cindy and Alison as well. Is this update the one with the MMA tournament and book contest?

 

[The_Searcher]

Out of curiosity what do y'all think will be in chapter 10? I guess it is obvious we'll see content for the characters absent in the previous update, but I'm hoping for more progress with Cindy and Alison as well. Is this update the one with the MMA tournament and book contest?

I hope there is more progress with Holly.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Out of curiosity what do y'all think will be in chapter 10? I guess it is obvious we'll see content for the characters absent in the previous update, but I'm hoping for more progress with Cindy and Alison as well. Is this update the one with the MMA tournament and book contest?

More lesbian storylines because i tire of corruption routes with scumbag males for Lena.