VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 13.1 BETA] [Eva Kiss]

[Doppelgang]

Regarding the discussion about Lena and the lack of an option to cheat on Ian with Jeremy: I think it's partially understandable that some people are dissatisfied with it. The game is taking decisions on our behalf all of the time, but usually it's done in a subtle way where you may not even think about it as it happens. This is one of the exceptions where one of the protagonists act in a way that can be directly in conflict with how the player had intended (the other obvious example is Lena's reaction when she finds out about the kiss between Ian and Holly). That breaks the illusion that we're in full control of Ian and Lena, and ideally that should happen as rarely as possible.

Another aspect is that the game—or maybe rather the conventions about the kinks and tropes that are in play—suggests it will be possible to let Lena cheat with Jeremy. The way the affair between Lena and Jeremy is slowly building up behind the backs of Ian and Louise … Ian's developing interest in watching Jeremy fuck the girls he's attracted to himself … Ian's ambivalent, but intrigued relationship to how Lena shows off in photo sessions and on social media, and the attention it attracts from other guys … All the power dynamics that exists as part of the whole BBC trope … It all acts as hints that makes it reasonable to expect that Lena can cheat on Ian with Jeremy.

Still, I agree with everything kolram and BloodyMares point out, and as an isolated decision I think it's perfectly reasonable that Lena don't want a relationship with Ian if she's already fucked Jeremy. (Both from Lena's point of view and because of Eva's workload.) Another aspect is that Lena's decision making is based on completely different things in the two relevant events: If Lena sleeps with Jeremy in Louise's bedroom, the decision is based on what her bodily desires are telling her. Thus: big, tempting cock > Ian's feelings. But during her relationship talk with Ian, her decisions are naturally way more rational. Thus: Ian's feelings > big, tempting cock.

Lena's rationality in that scene isn't a guarantee that she'll be rational in every future scene involving Ian and Jeremy, though. Maybe it's correct that Eva decided to scrap any possibilites of a Lena+Jeremy affair if Lena is in a relationship with Ian. But it might also be that she simply decided it's too early for it. For the chapter 9 version of Lena, an affair with Jeremy isn't compatible with a relationship with Ian. But the chapter 10 version of Lena may very well decide that her relationship is compatible with … let's say fantasising about Jeremy while masturbating. And then the chapter 12 version of Lena may decide the relationship is compatible with sending some of her nude photos directly to Jeremy. And so on until we end up with another scene between the two where she again puts the rationality aside, and we thus once again end up at the point where big, tempting cock > Ian's feelings.

 

[JoJoPool]

Guys, I don't understand if the mini version came out or where the new photos came from? Who can, drop the link.

 

[kolram]

Doppelgang

I see three possible scenarios for setting up future Lena/Jeremy pairings.

1: Lena and Ian are casual: Nothing to stop Lena and Jeremy continuing what they have likely already started.

2: Lena and Ian together but experimenting: Lena could get together with Jeremy with Ian’s consent, possibly involving threesome.

3: Lena and Ian “exclusive”: Depending on how corrupted Lena becomes through influence by Axel or Seymour and/or whether she is already actively cheating on Ian then Ian’s feelings could become increasingly less important when compared to her BBC fetish. Ian’s relationship score with Jeremy could also be a factor here if points are too low.

3a Edit: Or, and I’m just throwing this out there - sweet innocent Lena finds out Ian has been cheating on her with anything on legs and fucks Jeremy for revenge.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

And so on until we end up with another scene between the two where she again puts the rationality aside, and we thus once again end up at the point where big, tempting cock > Ian's feelings.

Lena: "Big, tempting cock doesn't care about your feelings"

 

[Doppelgang]

Doppelgang

I see three possible scenarios for setting up future Lena/Jeremy pairings.

1: Lena and Ian are casual: Nothing to stop Lena and Jeremy continuing what they have likely already started.

2: Lena and Ian together but experimenting: Lena could get together with Jeremy with Ian’s consent, possibly involving threesome.

3: Lena and Ian “exclusive”: Depending on how corrupted Lena becomes through influence by Axel or Seymour and/or whether she is already actively cheating on Ian then Ian’s feelings could become increasingly less important when compared to her BBC fetish. Ian’s relationship score with Jeremy could also be a factor here if points are too low.

3a Edit: Or, and I’m just throwing this out there - sweet innocent Lena finds out Ian has been cheating on her with anything on legs and fucks Jeremy for revenge.

I'm not sure if Lena needs the influence from Axel or Seymour to become more "corrupted", as I think the duality between her rational self and her more instinctive, pleasure maximising self is relatively apparent in most of her choices already. But yes, apart from that small detail this is pretty much in line with how I see it myself.

Maybe Eva added the different relationship options to make it easier to write certain scenarios without dealing with the possibly gigantic consequences of a fall-out between Ian and Jeremy—or others. If Lena has a continuous affair with Jeremy when she's in an exclusive relationship with Ian, he needs to have the chance to find out and get the option to be very angry at both Lena and Jeremy. If Lena sleeps with Jeremy when she's just casual with Ian, I think it's less necessary that he finds out, and his range of possible reactions can be significantly smaller. And in an open relationship it might also be possible to push the limits more and still get away with it. I assume they'll soon go over what the "experimenting" actually means, but still it will probably be some vagueness to it that one or both of them can take advantage of. Ian, Lena and Jeremy have a threesome -> Lena convinces Jeremy to continue hooking up just the two of them without telling Ian -> when confronted about it, Lena plays the innocent "but we're in an open relationship, how was I supposed to know I couldn't continue fucking Jeremy" card.

And yes, considering how angry and defensive Lena gets after Ian's kiss with Holly or whenever someone brings up Cherry, I'm looking forward to the potential revenge fuck marathon she'll have in mind if she finds out Ian's been notoriously unfaithful.

 

[BloodyMares]

Lena's rationality in that scene isn't a guarantee that she'll be rational in every future scene involving Ian and Jeremy, though. Maybe it's correct that Eva decided to scrap any possibilites of a Lena+Jeremy affair if Lena is in a relationship with Ian. But it might also be that she simply decided it's too early for it. For the chapter 9 version of Lena, an affair with Jeremy isn't compatible with a relationship with Ian. But the chapter 10 version of Lena may very well decide that her relationship is compatible with … let's say fantasising about Jeremy while masturbating. And then the chapter 12 version of Lena may decide the relationship is compatible with sending some of her nude photos directly to Jeremy. And so on until we end up with another scene between the two where she again puts the rationality aside, and we thus once again end up at the point where big, tempting cock > Ian's feelings.

That observation is fair. While Lena can sometimes act like a bitch, it's usually towards people she doesn't think about all that much. Ian so far has been on Lena's good side (if he didn't mess it up by sleeping with Holly or fighting Robert) so committing to a relationship knowing full well that there will be cheating involved (she's not gonna stop fucking Jeremy)... Well, she doesn't want to break his heart the same way Gillian did. They both opened up to each other, they both know each other's weaknesses and they wouldn't use that knowledge to hurt one another, it's just not who they are. If they do end up hurting each other it's usually by accident and miscommunication. The key factor for Lena to accept Ian's relationship proposal is to be in love with him (lena_ian_love). And if she's in love with him, she cares about him a lot, and she knows that her affair with Jeremy would break Ian, so at that time her love for Ian makes her to spare Ian the relationship based on lies.

That said, their relationship might develop in ways where her shenanigans with Jeremy might not trigger Ian's jealous rage... And then Lena could have the best of both worlds. Or the plot might progress in such a way where the consequences of Lena's cheating on Ian with Jeremy won't be as dire (Louise will become Lena's pet and will not question her affair with Jeremy, Ian's life wouldn't be so involved with Perry and Wade, etc).

It's just Eva wanted to solidify multiple relationships before the start of Chapter 10. And you can't make relationship solid if it's built on a false premise from the start.

 

[Mrorome]

Well, summing up all 1357 pages in one hot shit take: I sure do hope Eva never goes for a 2 protagonists game again. Cause let's be honest, she DID write herself into a corner, and if there ever is a "chapter 11" it will be exponentially worse than chapter 10.

 

[Chemish]

Well, summing up all 1357 pages in one hot shit take: I sure do hope Eva never goes for a 2 protagonists game again. Cause let's be honest, she DID write herself into a corner, and if there ever is a "chapter 11" it will be exponentially worse than chapter 10.

I enjoy ORS but agree that a return to a single protagonist for future games would likely be easier to manage for Eva.

 

[lockerxx]

She already has content in the gallery. So some photos could be all we get.

i don´t know bad jessica hasn´t any content and she got her space in the gallery.good jessica no

 

[SerHawkes]

i don´t know bad jessica hasn´t any content and she got her space in the gallery.good jessica no

Likely a place marker for when BG Jess maybe gets content, likely in chapter 17 or so.

 

[Doppelgang]

It's just Eva wanted to solidify multiple relationships before the start of Chapter 10. And you can't make relationship solid if it's built on a false premise from the start.

It's this observation in combination with the events directly after the relationship talk that makes me curious how Eva will balance the relationships in the coming chapters. Ian and Lena's solid, not-built-on-false-premises relationship could take a drastic turn with the immediate events involving Cindy, Axel and Seymour. It seems clear Eva set that up exactly to eventually create maximum drama.

A Jeremy/Lena affair would be a ticking bomb conflict wise because Jeremy is so unsubtle (and because the implications of Ian's social life would be so big). In that sense the three others are different because they'd be able to keep a secret. But seeing how possessive both Axel and Seymour are, it seems unlikely they'll be satisfied being Lena's side piece in the long run. That leaves the question: How long will it take before someone reveals Ian's and/or Lena's cheating?

And independent of what other NPCs do, there's also the question about how Lena and Ian themselves will act. I guess chapter 10 could easily begin with an inner monologue from Ian (and later from Lena) where he justifies not telling Lena about his potential cheating with Cindy, meaning we won't get the option to come clean about it in the immediate future. But at some point we probably will, and/or at some point we'll get the chance to expose the actions of the other.

In short, I guess my point is this: I agree that Eva seemingly made some choices on the Lena/Jeremy path to make it easier to handle writing wise. But at the same time she decided to time the events with Cindy, Axel and Seymour exactly in a way to make it as impactful as possible, and that will create the most drama for the relationship between Ian and Lena. That sounds fun for us, but also like Eva isn't making it easy for herself, despite making Lena's relationship with Ian incompatible with an affair with Jeremy.

 

[Mr. Muscles]

I can only imagine the amount of writing and structuring Eva alone has to deal with. I can see her getting exhausted over the project. It's one ambitions project, but also quite dense.

 

[XXXVAA]

I can only imagine the amount of writing and structuring Eva alone has to deal with. I can see her getting exhausted over the project. It's one ambitions project, but also quite dense.

it's a porn game, how hard can the plot be? i would argue that the hardest parts are programing and the art. you guys act like Eva is the next edgar allan poe or something.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

it's a porn game, how hard can the plot be? i would argue that the hardest parts are programing and the art. you guys act like Eva is the next edgar allan poe or something.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Our Red String. The writing is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the nuances in dialogue will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Ian's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these characters, to realise that it's not just a porn game- it says something deep about LIFE.

As a consequence people who dislike Our Red String truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Perry's existential stuttering, which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as EvaKiss' genius wit unfolds itself on their computer monitors. What fools.. how I pity them.

And yes, by the way, i DO have a ORS banner. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid

 

[walker188]

Well, summing up all 1357 pages in one hot shit take: I sure do hope Eva never goes for a 2 protagonists game again. Cause let's be honest, she DID write herself into a corner, and if there ever is a "chapter 11" it will be exponentially worse than chapter 10.

The issue with multiple protagonists who can make equal levels of decisions, is that it essentially puts the reader/player into two characters. I'm not just Ian OR Lena. I'm both. Which makes me have just about zero interest in pairing one up with the other.

Two protagonists can work, but one must clearly make choices, the other would simply be a POV character.

 

[qazxsw80]

I can only imagine the amount of writing and structuring Eva alone has to deal with. I can see her getting exhausted over the project. It's one ambitions project, but also quite dense.

What people don't realize is that even if those die-hard fans are right and Eva Kiss is indeed working hard on ORS (which in my opinion is preposterous), it is even worse for the destiny of the game.
If it is indeed much more difficult to make the next chapter compared to the last and that difficulty is really growing exponentially, basically it means that the game is never going to be completed and probably will be abandoned sooner or later.
Let's say that now it takes 8 months to make a chapter. It is safe to say then that Eva Kiss will need a couple of years to make, let's say, Chapter 12 and probably 5 years for Chapter 13 and so on.
The time between chapters of ORS:

In any case the future of ORS is bleak. The game is never going to be finished either because Eva Kiss has become lazy or because it has become too complex to develop.

 

[Petro28]

This upcoming update is like a mountain looming before you as you walk towards it. It is getting bigger but doesn't seem getting any closer.

 

[giyaj88259]

What people don't realize is that even if those die-hard fans are right and Eva Kiss is indeed working hard on ORS (which in my opinion is preposterous), it is even worse for the destiny of the game.
If it is indeed much more difficult to make the next chapter compared to the last and that difficulty is really growing exponentially, basically it means that the game is never going to be completed and probably will be abandoned sooner or later.
Let's say that now it takes 8 months to make a chapter. It is safe to say then that Eva Kiss will need a couple of years to make, let's say, Chapter 12 and probably 5 years for Chapter 13 and so on.
The time between chapters of ORS:
View attachment 2124402
In any case the future of ORS is bleak. The game is never going to be finished either because Eva Kiss has become lazy or because it has become too complex to develop.

Your graph is wrong, either time and results need to be swapped or you want a log line.

 

[Mrorome]

What people don't realize is that even if those die-hard fans are right and Eva Kiss is indeed working hard on ORS (which in my opinion is preposterous), it is even worse for the destiny of the game.
If it is indeed much more difficult to make the next chapter compared to the last and that difficulty is really growing exponentially, basically it means that the game is never going to be completed and probably will be abandoned sooner or later.
Let's say that now it takes 8 months to make a chapter. It is safe to say then that Eva Kiss will need a couple of years to make, let's say, Chapter 12 and probably 5 years for Chapter 13 and so on.
The time between chapters of ORS:
View attachment 2124402
In any case the future of ORS is bleak. The game is never going to be finished either because Eva Kiss has become lazy or because it has become too complex to develop.

What can go wrong if I put in two protagonists and let them build a fully intertwined and interdependent net of relations that keeps getting more complex on a logarhytmical scale

 

[dolfe67]

Well, summing up all 1357 pages in one hot shit take: I sure do hope Eva never goes for a 2 protagonists game again. Cause let's be honest, she DID write herself into a corner, and if there ever is a "chapter 11" it will be exponentially worse than chapter 10.

Well since ORS has quite a few years before being completed, don't bother thinking so soon about a next game.

it's a porn game, how hard can the plot be? i would argue that the hardest parts are programing and the art. you guys act like Eva is the next edgar allan poe or something.

Don't confuse simple plot with easy writing, you're condescending towards "porn" game. It's not a basic novel (kinetic) where you can change nothing but more like dozens of novels (branching) at the same time.