VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 13.1 BETA] [Eva Kiss]

[Gicoo]

Than let me shed some light on why I rate Jeremy lower than Wade bcz of his character.

Jeremy doesn't stop going after Alison even when Ian directly tells him not to go after Alison in front of Wade and Perry (What a bro he is!). Dude is fucking his best friend's girlfriend (What a bro he is!). How he handled Louise matter. These are the main reasons I can't rate him higher than Wade. Wade is trying to do something for himself(not the best thing) at least he ain't two-faced like Jeremy.

In terms of personality, I agree. In that case, I would make an entirely different ranking. Seymour and Axel at the bottom, obviously.
I gathered most recent criticism towards him were about his allegedly poor sexual performance and how he fails to get women.

Is thanks to the player Ivy the viper gets to hunt her prey.

Not sure if serious, but this scene happens by default off-screen. Its only avoided if Lena decides to interfer in Louise private life and tell her about Jeremy.

 

[| Vee |]

I gathered most recent criticism towards him were about his allegedly poor sexual performance and how he fails to get women.

He just need Kegels !

I don't consider this on his rating as this is not what he can control, it's natural some men don't last longer but it will be a bonus if a character is lasting longer. Again it is subjective on which criteria's you're rating on them and they may differ person to person. Some will give more weight to one thing, personality, etc.

 

[BlandChili]

Furthermore, we'll get a curve ball from EK that Ivy is only for Lena.

Even though I'm not into her myself I'd actually respect the hell out of Eva if she decided to make the #1 Cockbait character only be available for the female main character.

Since Jeremy can end up either great (5 chicks not counting Eli) or loser ("only" Louise), we are getting nowhere talking about player interference.

Hence my initial notice how Jeremy performs without us interfering. On average, without us neither helping or sabotaging him.

The results?

- He has Louise for a good while, though he loses her since Ivy blows him in front of his girlfriend (man, what a loser).
- He gets Alison unless Ian pushes for her and/or has high charisma.
- What was Ivys Jeremy score if Ian and Lena answer neutral toward her? Regardless, failing to get Ivy is no shame, Eva portrays her as the best girl who is the hardest to get. Ivy considering him for 12 chapters is already a feat on his own.

You're sort of opening up a whole other (but also much more interesting) discussion here about what then constitutes "player interference"

For example why did you pick for Lena to not tell Louise that her "boyfriend" is cheating on her? I'd argue that picking the less friendly option of keeping it secret for no reason is player interference rather than making the choice a real friend would make.

I'd also argue that he gets Alison only if Ian deliberately makes the choices that disfavour him. If we say that "player interference" is getting the less likely outcome, based on what the game tells us about the characters, then Jeremy getting with Alison has to be seen as player interference, given how directly she shows her interest in Ian. Why is it "player interference" to make the choices that gets "main character" with "hot girl," when you could argue that, that's the task the game sets before you at its most basic?

Your last example I won't really judge since we as the player are given the very unsubtle option of deciding if and by whose word Jeremy gets with Ivy. Since I don't really find Ivy to be a prize worth pursuing myself I guess we could explore it for arguments own sake:
Why is neutral seen as "least interference" in this case? If we went by my argumentation that "player interference" is making choices that either disfavour the main character directly or contradicts their presented personalities, like telling Louise that Jeremy is cheating on her makes sense because she's Lena's friend, would Lena as this same friend also not disapprove of this same guy and therefore tell her other friend off for wasting her time on him?
That specific choice though would probably not matter anyway as if you play Ian as a generally good bloke (which is what I think the game tries to portray) he'd probably be a good wingman, unless he himself of course specifically wants Ivy and doesn't want anyone else with her. I think I saw someone else on here comment that if Ian is positive about Jeremy then what Lena has to say doesn't change Ivy's decision, correct me if I'm wrong here.

Which Lena doesn't do by default. The default option is that she doesn't interfer.

Can you explain why you see this as "interference" or why it shouldn't be the default? It's a choice so like I wrote above you could argue that either is the more given choice.

 

[Xupuzulla]

Not sure if serious, but this scene happens by default off-screen. Its only avoided if Lena decides to interfer in Louise private life and tell her about Jeremy.

What happens off screen?her sucking his dick?
Is Louise there if it happens off-screen?
Because that whole scene works in Ivy favour because how jealous Louise gets.

 

[SerHawkes]

I see some are just preaching to choirs I see... Ho boy.

 

[yuvce]

Far too many messages for me to quote, so it's likely I will have missed some people's messages so here goes.

Jeremy has no self-respect. His "player" personality is a façade. SearingFive put it best; he's a horndog. He pretends to think to highly of himself to mask his desperation. All he does is grovel. He doesn't score with Emma unless Ian gives his blessing to go after his sloppy seconds. He was a pawn used by Ivy to rattle Louise. She preyed on his weakness and lack of discipline. But it only gets to that point if Lena doesn't spill the beans to Louise. Speaking of Louise, she was only head over heels for him only because she's too insecure about herself and too stupid to see how little attention he was giving to her.
Alison has admitted on numerous occasions that Jeremy's the last person she'd want to be involved with. She spends half her time simping for Ian, Jeremy's a tool to her. He gets her only if Ian is smart enough not to pursue a yandere. If he had as much pull as he thinks he does, he wouldn't need to grovel to Ian, Lena, or Ivy.

At his core, he's an idiot. He has no stamina, no pull, and no brains. Just an insatiable libido that'll probably turn him into a rapist because in the most recent chapter 12 prologue, he self-admitted that he doesn't take no for answer and that "where there's a will, there's a way." He doesn't think carefully about who to involve himself with. As long as he gets to put his dick in a living woman, anything goes. He's scum, and Ian needs to drop his ass.

 

[Xupuzulla]

Even though I'm not into her myself I'd actually respect the hell out of Eva if she decided to make the #1 Cockbait character only be available for the female main character.

You're sort of opening up a whole other (but also much more interesting) discussion here about what then constitutes "player interference"

For example why did you pick for Lena to not tell Louise that her "boyfriend" is cheating on her? I'd argue that picking the less friendly option of keeping it secret for no reason is player interference rather than making the choice a real friend would make.

I'd also argue that he gets Alison only if Ian deliberately makes the choices that disfavour him. If we say that "player interference" is getting the less likely outcome, based on what the game tells us about the characters, then Jeremy getting with Alison has to be seen as player interference, given how directly she shows her interest in Ian. Why is it "player interference" to make the choices that gets "main character" with "hot girl," when you could argue that, that's the task the game sets before you at its most basic?

Your last example I won't really judge since we as the player are given the very unsubtle option of deciding if and by whose word Jeremy gets with Ivy. Since I don't really find Ivy to be a prize worth pursuing myself I guess we could explore it for arguments own sake:
Why is neutral seen as "least interference" in this case? If we went by my argumentation that "player interference" is making choices that either disfavour the main character directly or contradicts their presented personalities, like telling Louise that Jeremy is cheating on her makes sense because she's Lena's friend, would Lena as this same friend also not disapprove of this same guy and therefore tell her other friend off for wasting her time on him?
That specific choice though would probably not matter anyway as if you play Ian as a generally good bloke (which is what I think the game tries to portray) he'd probably be a good wingman, unless he himself of course specifically wants Ivy and doesn't want anyone else with her. I think I saw someone else on here comment that if Ian is positive about Jeremy then what Lena has to say doesn't change Ivy's decision, correct me if I'm wrong here.

Can you explain why you see this as "interference" or why it shouldn't be the default? It's a choice so like I wrote above you could argue that either is the more given choice.

The problem is there no "neutral" way of seeing how things play out because everyone is emotional about the characters in this thread.
The Jeremy/Alison thing you said is proof of this.
If you choose to no fuck her,Jeremy does.
Still his haters are not going to give him the win and they would go about PLAYER CHOICE even throught your choice as a player is ignoring the girl

 

[Gicoo]

You're sort of opening up a whole other (but also much more interesting) discussion here about what then constitutes "player interference"

As I said, Ian and Lena interfer extremely often with the other characters. This by design and part of the game.
So what happens if Ian and Lena wouldn't be there? E.g. Perry wouldn't get either Emma or Cherry because he shy by default and only Ian willing and able (skillwise) to help him would change his character.

Louise hooks up with Jeremy regardless of Lena. If Lena isn't around, Jeremy pushes her to meet Ivy and it leads to the blowjob and they break up. If Lena is there and decided to interfer in Louises business (which requires higher friendship points that aren't there by default), then Louise is quicker to question Jeremy and Ivy and they break off before they even went to Ivys apartment.

For example why did you pick for Lena to not tell Louise that her "boyfriend" is cheating on her? I'd argue that picking the less friendly option of keeping it secret for no reason is player interference rather than making the choice a real friend would make.

No. You can always hide it from her but you can't always tell her. Lena's friendship to Louise is optional (at least the extent of it). If she is a loose friend, then you don't interfer in her business.

I'd also argue that he gets Alison only if Ian deliberately makes the choices that disfavour him.

No. If he stays with Perry and Cherry to not be a dick to them, Alison already enjoys Jeremys affection. And getting it back requieres high charisma.
And imagine Ian isn't around: Alison would response to Jeremy. She is always interested in him, its just that a confident Ian who seeks her out on his volition is her Number 1 dream husband material, while Jeremy is just a fuckboy to relieve her of stress. This doesn't devalue Jeremy.

Can you explain why you see this as "interference"?

Because its not the default option. It requires higher friendship points with Louise. Not telling her is the standard "so nothing and let things play out and let them make their own decisions".

What happens off screen?her sucking his dick?
Is Louise there if it happens off-screen?

Yes, Louise comes home, tells Lena about it, cries and even makes a move on her if she has high friendship with her.

He doesn't score with Emma unless Ian gives his blessing to go after his sloppy seconds.

No, Ian doesn't allow Jeremy to do so. He merely informs him. Jeremy simply never considered Emma and Ians encouragement gave him he idea. Then he approached Emma and she agreed on it wholeheartily. This is much different than Ivy asking Ian and Lena. Emma (and Alison and Louise) find Jeremy attractive and valuable for a fuck.

 

[Jdsiis]

EvaKiss you make some of the best games out there. I do hope for the next game we go back to a single female protagonist, maybe set in a fantasy or scifi world or something to differentiate it.

I find the multiple protagonist less rewarding to play and probably a whole lot more complicated to make.

 

[BlandChili]

The problem is there no "neutral" way of seeing how things play out because everyone is emotional about the characters in this thread.

It's a roleplaying game, I don't really see the point in arguing for neutrality anyway. We play the characters in the way we like, right?

The Jeremy/Alison thing you said is proof of this.
If you choose to no fuck her,Jeremy does.

Elaborate, what is that proof of?

So what happens if Ian and Lena wouldn't be there?

I don't really see why this is an interesting exercise though, Ian and Lena are the game after all.
By that same thought it could be argued that if Ian wasn't there Jeremy and Alison wouldn't be meeting up and therefore wouldn't have sex anyway.

If Lena is there and decided to interfer in Louises business (which requires higher friendship points that aren't there by default)

Sure, but doesn't the other option have a requirment as well? Last time I played that bit it had a lust icon, but that might just have been because that Lena focused on Jeremy's cock earlier.

No. You can always hide it from her but you can't always tell her. Lena's friendship to Louise is optional (at least the extent of it). If she is a loose friend, then you don't interfer in her business.

Fair enough, maybe they aren't always close. Regardless of how close I am to someone I'd always tell them if I knew their partner was cheating on them, but I guess Lena is different when it comes to that.

No. If he stays with Perry and Cherry to not be a dick to them, Alison already enjoys Jeremys affection. And getting it back requieres high charisma.
And imagine Ian isn't around: Alison would response to Jeremy. She is always interested in him, its just that a confident Ian who seeks her out on his volition is her Number 1 dream husband material, while Jeremy is just a fuckboy to relieve her of stress. This doesn't devalue Jeremy.

I'd argue you have to be an overly cautious friend to see yourself as being a dick for not babysitting someone else through a social interaction. Wouldn't it be player interference too not to let Perry sail his own boat?
I guess we just have to have different opinions on this, but I just don't see Jeremy getting with Alison as a default, I'd say it's more circumstantial, it happens if you care about Perry or want Ian with Cherry more.

 

[ffive]

I guess we just have to have different opinions on this, but I just don't see Jeremy getting with Alison as a default

I think it's pretty viable -- out of them two it's not Ian but Jeremy who first sees Alison as someone to have sex with and not just a platonic friend. (and brings it to Ian's attention) Ian can potentially disagree, but Jeremy always has this mindset and will hit on Alison unless Ian asks him to stay away.

 

[BlandChili]

I think it's pretty viable -- out of them two it's not Ian but Jeremy who first sees Alison as someone to have sex with and not just a platonic friend. (and brings it to Ian's attention) Ian can potentially disagree, but Jeremy always has this mindset and will hit on Alison unless Ian asks him to stay away.

And thus "player interference" to change Ian's mind, huh?
To be honest I don't really care what Jeremy's opinions are, just what the main characters can realistically achieve and given Alison's crush on Ian I think it makes more sense that they get together if Ian is even just minimally interested in achieving it.

If there was some route where Jeremy could get with Alison in spite of Ian's best efforts I'd buy it more readily.
That'd of course piss a lot of players off even more!

 

[ffive]

If there was some route where Jeremy could get with Alison in spite of Ian's best efforts I'd buy it more readily.
That'd of course piss a lot of players off even more!

Yup, you'd have the cries of "unavoidable NTR" pretty much guaranteed. I mean, we already get a slight taste with all the freaking out over Cindy possibly fucking Axel no matter what.

 

[Gicoo]

I don't really see why this is an interesting exercise though

It's extremely useful if we want to nail down the characters and consider what they are the most likeliest to do.

if Ian wasn't there Jeremy and Alison wouldn't be meeting up and therefore wouldn't have sex anyway.

Alison is eager for attention and stress relieve. Quickly after her break up she contacted the two guys she would hit it off. She even contacted Jeremy earlier. If Ian wasn't there, Jeremy and Alison would text more, then meet up and fuck.
Alison fucks Jeremy in 95% of every scenario. She only denies him if Ian is exclusive with her. Not because Jeremy sucks, but because Ian is the ideal boyfriend in Alisons mind.

Sure, but doesn't the other option have a requirment as well? Last time I played that bit it had a lust icon, but that might just have been because that Lena focused on Jeremy's cock earlier.

I don't recall that, but thats interesting. Isn't the above choice still dependant on her friendship with Louise? One of the two choices has to be default, else the player would be stuck.

but I just don't see Jeremy getting with Alison as a default, I'd say it's more circumstantial, it happens if you care about Perry or want Ian with Cherry more.

If she really wanted to focus on Ian, she wouldn't let him touch her. Ian really has to show interest, or else she shifts to Jeremy without hesitation. Because Jeremy makes her move on her and she likes that in general.



And if we talk about canon, I expect we all agree that it would be Ian/Lena (maybe Holly, considering how much Eva likes her) and anyone else takes a backseat. I don't see Alison in particular being Ians default woman. If anything she is Jeremys fuckbuddy by default, Ian has to go out of his way to prevent that.

 

[| Vee |]

I think it's pretty viable -- out of them two it's not Ian but Jeremy who first sees Alison as someone to have sex with and not just a platonic friend. (and brings it to Ian's attention) Ian can potentially disagree, but Jeremy always has this mindset and will hit on Alison unless Ian asks him to stay away.

Jeremy sees a girl, he just wants to fuck her and the cycle continues. That's Jeremy's life and mindset.

He doesn't stay away whether Ian tells him to stay away or not.

Yup, you'd have the cries of "unavoidable NTR" pretty much guaranteed. I mean, we already get a slight taste with all the freaking out over Cindy possibly fucking Axel no matter what.

Than what's the point of having choices if everything leads to "Unavoidable NTR"?

 

[Xupuzulla]

It's a roleplaying game, I don't really see the point in arguing for neutrality anyway. We play the characters in the way we like, right?

Thats the thing,we all perceive this game in different ways,we all have differents morals so what is neutral to you is not going to neutral to others.
In the end if Lena and Ian end up as shitty people or the nicest is up to the player.

 

[SanicTheHegehog]

Worst example I ever encountered was this character Corso Riggs in SWTOR, there is a conversation very early on where you have to reject him somewhat harshly when you play as a female character, otherwise the game locks you into his romance even though you can get through that conversation with no flirtation whatsoever.
This game is quite obvious with its sexual interactions, so no worries there.

didnt expect someone to talk about swtor here

 

[Krysis_here]

Thats the thing,we all perceive this game in different ways,we all have differents morals so what is neutral to you is not going to neutral to others.
In the end if Lena and Ian end up as shitty people or the nicest is up to the player.

It's True How the Players Play and Choose the Option it will Lead them to the Characters and their final part. Now Look at Lena She is Struggling from the Very Beginning

Spoiler: Lena Broken

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[BlandChili]

Yup, you'd have the cries of "unavoidable NTR" pretty much guaranteed. I mean, we already get a slight taste with all the freaking out over Cindy possibly fucking Axel no matter what.

Even more so since Alison is framed as the first girl Ian can have sex scenes with. Imagine if it was actually hard to get!

It's extremely useful if we want to nail down the characters and consider what they are the most likeliest to do.

Well, I said interesting not useful
Fair enough, it's fine for such an argument but since Lena and Ian are in the game and this can't be changed I'll leave those points to those of you who find them interesting to discuss.

Alison is eager for attention and stress relieve. Quickly after her break up she contacted the two guys she would hit it off. She even contacted Jeremy earlier. If Ian wasn't there, Jeremy and Alison would text more, then meet up and fuck.
Alison fucks Jeremy in 95% of every scenario.

But Ian is there. My point was that we can't remove him because the possibilities become endless.

She only denies him if Ian is exclusive with her.

Can you explain this more? My Ian has no problem getting with any of the girls he wants at this point in the story, Alison doesn't go away from him unless he goes for Emma down the line.

I don't recall that, but thats interesting. Isn't the above choice still dependant on her friendship with Louise? One of the two choices has to be default, else the player would be stuck.

I think it's just an indicator. I tried playing through it just now where I didn't gain any friendship with Louise but wasn't interested in Jeremy either, the option had no lust icon. In my old save it still had it though.
I guess it just changes Lena's reasoning for why she would no tell Louise depending on your choices?

If she really wanted to focus on Ian, she wouldn't let him touch her. Ian really has to show interest, or else she shifts to Jeremy without hesitation. Because Jeremy makes her move on her and she likes that in general.

Eh, keep in mind that Alison's crush is an old and unfulfilled one, it's not that weird that she's receptive towards someone who shows their desires more candidly.
Fair enough, you think it makes more sense as a default outcome, I don't. Like I said I think you have to be as deliberate not to get Ian/Alison as you have to be to not get them.

And if we talk about canon, [...]

We don't, I abhor designations of "canonical" events. It's why I dislike the GGGB cameos so much.

didnt expect someone to talk about swtor here

It's an old game by now, I think many people here have at least tried it.

 

[SerHawkes]

Jeremy only cares for one thing: Sex. Even when he has a pretty good thing going with Louise, who is putting out by the way, it's this 'player' mentality of having the next notch on the bed post.

With Alison, even if Ian tells him to stay away from her HE LITERALLY DOESN'T. He tries to shoot his shot and depending on Ian, fails horribly or gets a pity fuck to try and make Ian jealous. Hell, even if we aren't with Alison, he brags and talks shit about how great it was and what not, all while Alison is simping for Ian, even when we aren't interested in that YandereSnatch.

The bottom line is this: No matter how many people try to defend the guy, which I laugh at the jumping through hoops type of logic, the dude is scum. He doesn't care about Ian or any of his bros, just the next piece of ass he can lay his pipe in. Not to mention the dude is completely pathetic in needing BOTH Ian to curb favor with Ivy about her "possible" interest in the guy, but also Lena to line up a possible pity fuck. And even then, given the guy has nothing going for him other than his dick size, with no stamina to speak of, I find it laughable that he could "satisfy" Ivy at all. Though I know most would go full 'In your face Hawkes' were that to happen. (Jokes on them I have them on ignore.)

But I digress...