- Thread starter Eva Kiss
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- Dec 4, 2017
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True, but if the dev is irresponsible, why making less money should make them work harder if they don't like working hard at all? They just won't if it's not something they're passionate about anymore. The more likely scenario is that the game gets abandoned and they start fresh, trying to get new patrons to support the new game that is fun for them to make.
Is it possible that Eva got used to a laid-back no-rush development? Sure, but it's likely that it comes from anxiety that the project of such magnitude brings. You tell yourself that small progress is better than none because when you panic in a rush mode, your brain stops working and you hit a full stop. If all these milking / lazy accusations end up being true, losing patrons will not make Eva suddenly go overdrive and return to the pace of Chapters 1 - 7 because it's simply not possible. At worst she'll have to cancel the project (can't afford colorist / coder etc) and try making another game that is much simpler which would allow her to release monthly updates once again. But then there's a risk of hitting mediocrity, where update speed becomes top priority instead of quality or interesting ideas, resulting in Eva's games becoming stale copies of each other. Is that something that "game dead" commenters want to happen?
- Nov 19, 2017
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yes i would rather have a new game with monthly updates than wait a year for each update for the sake of quality, sure there is a risk of mediocrity like you said but there's also a risk of losing support because people are getting fed up with waiting too long, even if her patreons are extremely patient everyone has a limit and it will become intolerable at some point in the future
take GGGB for example, it was a mediocre game compared to ORS but everyone was happy with it.
Eva is a perfectionist, while that is a good trait it will also be her downfall, not everything needs to be perfect, she has to realise that for the sake of her own sanity.
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- Mar 26, 2020
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And people wonder how companies such as EA manages to make hits after hits and bank millions of dollars.
Take your "Crappy Generic Game k2022", I'll keep games such as ORS, even with slower updates rates. Thank you very much.
- Nov 19, 2017
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let's not forget that this is just a porn game not an AAA game, there's no need for it to be so complex or try to be perfect in every aspect. GGGB is mediocre by ORS standards but does that make it a bad game ? no. It is a simple fun corruption game, has a ton of fetishes and it pleased everyone. It is a great game, i'm still discovering new scenes in it till this day it's mind blowing.
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- May 2, 2017
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- Feb 21, 2020
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- Jun 24, 2017
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For me laid-back no-rush development sounds like the type of project where you work only 4h a day and you don't have any real dead lines for anything. If I understood correctly, you said that, that is ok because everyday you progress bit by bit. However, I don't understand the alternative. Do you try to say that working 8h leads to you not working at all ?!? That makes no sense, unless you had something like this in mind:
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.Or maybe you view the laid-back no-rush development more on this lines: you work 8h a day, but if something is not ready by the end of the week you just say, that's fine, I'll keep working on it on Monday, instead of doing overtime. So you end up missing one deadline and then another and another. And slowly you get from a 2 months development time to 6 months. And also from 8h of work per day to only 6h, because you don't want to feel rushed in any way.
- Sep 11, 2018
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As far as Patreon/Subscribestar/Whatever-backed smut games go, once you hit the 'big leagues' and establish a loyal fan base, you're free to slack off as long as you don't become too arrogant. The trickle-down of paying fans is minuscule. If you bother to release something, anything really, on a semi-regular basis, your number of paying customers will only go up. You have to work hard to fuck it up.
My honest opinion is that Eva Kiss went over her head with this very ambitious project for a single dev and experienced burnout after working hard to keep up with the GGGB pace of updates. Eventually, that became a creative roadblock, and then she saw that she was not losing many Patreon supporters despite the ever-increasing development time.
I get that she might feel bad about the situation, but at the same time, there's no real incentive for her to hurry up a bit. 80%+ of her patrons made it clear they were more than happy to wait. So, she'll take her time, mull over things, work at a slower pace and not stress too much about the whole situation, you know? In her GGGB days, she had more trouble getting money when she was pumping out monthly updates than she does now. It's a double-edged sword because it can better the game in the short term, or we might get an abandoned tag in the future because a project needs a certain minimal pace of production to feel alive, viable, and still fresh.
I mean look at this:
The dev had a 2% drop in earnings in the past year despite releasing only two updates, one of which was a complete retread. Once an update drops, the number of patrons will increase quickly, while the drop-off will trickle down for months. Don't hate the player -- hate the game.
ORS is a porn game, yes. But the character drama it portrays is compelling and you can kinda lose yourself in the game universe enjoying the various ways and freedom you have to play it. Obviously it'll never have AAA level production values and standards but I tend to enjoy well written stories and characters that give you a reason to give a shit. I find with these games if you just throw sex at me as a yes/no proposition with no build up I get bored fast and the sex isn't even all that exciting.
I like it when the story can stand on its own merits and the porn is a bonus versus other games that work like a 1970s era feature length porn movie. Where every single plot device revolves around triggering a sex scene and the characters and story are more a novelty than a serious consideration.
- Jan 14, 2018
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Gggb has a ton of fetishes. In Ors is nothing even close to similar. And not expected, as far as i can tell.
- Nov 19, 2017
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I 100% agree with you, i too enjoy a well written story, it's the cherry on top especially in a porn game. But if i have to wait a year for it i'd rather have something simpler.
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- Nov 19, 2017
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I'm sure ORS will get a lot more kinky in the future but we'll have to wait a veeeeeeery looooooong time before we get there.Gggb has a ton of fetishes. In Ors is nothing even close to similar. And not expected, as far as i can tell.
I'm kind of new to the whole F95/Daz/Western VN scene. I didn't really get into it until Acting Lessons and BADIK came out. Is it normal for a lot of devs to just start a Patreon crank out 90% of a game and then just abandon near the finale? I just started ORS last week so I have no idea there was a 1 year wait since the last chapter. Do we have any indication how big the game is planned to be?
It seems like if patreon becomes your primary source of income you have a financial incentive to tease and draw out as much time as you can without finishing your game because otherwise you gotta go back to a full time job and explain your resume gap with rusty skills. Not desirable especially if you come to realize you can just relax and live off the money without working too hard.
I hope that's not the case with these devs but truthfully there's zero accountability with Patreon, you can't just sign a contract with the dev and expect results like a traditional game publisher.
I'm waiting for a new version as Hachiko of his master from the train.
- Nov 19, 2017
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I read that ORS will be at least 20 chapters long.
Sure, why make 2 games in 6 years when you can milk one for 6 years, it's less effort that way and just as profitable.
But i don't think Eva is that type of dev (at least not yet), i think she made a mistake by choosing to make a dual protag game where every character is connected to the other which made the game too big of a mess that she can barely manage to sustain hence the long gap between updates.
But hey live and learn i guess, hopefully this is the first and last time she makes a dual protag game.
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Just in Lena's upcoming pool party/rap video section(s), please. If Eva could just add a flourish or two, like renaming og character to Leeroy (dirty)South. Would be greatly appreciated. I'm not actually a "game dead" commenter, but I'm bold enough to speak for them if you'd be so kind as to pass the message along. Just looking out for their concerns here.
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- Aug 12, 2017
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Is it worth to start a new gameplay, for the revamped version or the changes does not affect to story so much? I have a lot of saves with different choices and I dont want to start all over again if the story does not change that much.
- Dec 4, 2017
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But that's the thing. This part of GGGB happened thanks to Eva's ambitious desire to push herself. Not to meet deadlines but to make the best adult VN / RPG possible where no playthrough could be exactly the same, and each player could have their own experience. That's a lot of work, and if you remember correctly Eva had to take 3 - 4 months to develop all the endings. Armed with that hindsight knowledge, if Eva decided to go for the speed, there won't be such complex branches in the plots anymore, because the goal is monthly releases, so you just develop a game with minimal barebones branching that you could craft the complete endings for in just 1 - 2 months tops.
When efficiency is the only goal, that's how art becomes junk food. If you think about current Marvel projects for example, it's the perfect example of minimal effort to produce a constant stream of entertainment that lacks original ideas. Sure, people have loved it for a time, but with Phase 4 it's obvious the market got oversaturated and people are feeling sick from having to consume so many same-y movies or shows about nothing in particular.
That's what burnout is. Your brain is not a machine, you can't make it work faster than it can, especially in a creative line of work that requires a lot of thinking over ideas. When your mind allocates 40% of its power to stressing about making it on time, you're only working with 60% efficiency while simultaneously draining your willpower which eventually stops working and you just want to spend the entire day in bed not doing anything, and that mental state is extremely hard to get out of. Think of it as jog vs sprinting. You can run long distance jogging but you can't run the same distance at full speed, you'll just gas out or pass out.
I don't think the money factor was the main motivator there. At the beginning, Eva was a nobody with no real income to rely on, but still worked hard to please the potential players. Positive feedback is the main driving force. You can't get feedback from money, it's just numbers. Your amount of patrons might grow but you can't really tell if they like what you do if you don't hear the positive feedback from people that love what you do. And the more people say how much they love what you do, the more you want to give them. But like with all dopamine sources, eventually you get used to it and it doesn't work as well anymore. And if some objective reasons get in the way of you receiving that positive feedback (amount of work, life getting in the way, personal emotional baggage etc), it's hard to motivate yourself to work as hard as you were before. And if your numbers get smaller on top, I don't know how it's supposed to give you a jump-start. For my ADHD brain, negative motivation just doesn't work. I'd rather take less money for punishment, feeling like I deserve it, than force myself to work at max speed. And for some reason I have a hunch that Eva might have a similar problem. I feel like her shame got the better of her so she wanted to release a half-complete update, but being the people pleaser, she decided to do what her paying fans wanted, even if it might not help with that feeling of shame.