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qazxsw80

Active Member
Sep 1, 2019
737
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Your points would be valid if everyone was indeed gullible and weak-willed in the world. Some people though have a strong will and no matter how tough life gets, you find your inner strength and fight instead of choosing the easy way out from reality into the happy abyss. Lena is a fighter and she knows the stakes. Her father depends on her. She is an adult so she's aware of what drugs do to you. Other than developing an addiction, you become less productive and stop thinking clearly. If she wants to help her father, even if she does stripping or doing sexual favors out of despair, she still needs to be in her best condition to be in her top game. Lena is a very responsible adult person. Being an adult means that you've figured out some things for yourself already and won't betray yourself even when it's tough.
And to be honest, I think we already had quite enough of drugs in GGGB. Resorting to them again would be a retread of everything that was already explored plenty in GGGB. If EvaKiss decides to add a druggie route again, there will have to be a route where you refuse and are not taking them and also a route where you reform and get help as well which was already done in GGGB. If I was EvaKiss, I wouldn't want to repeat myself. It wouldn't be fun, it wouldn't be interesting and it would be boring to write. Why make another game at all if you're essentially recreating everything from GGGB to some extent? It's time to let go.
All that stuff about Lena's character is no more than your perception of her based on very limited data of the very early version of the game. Actually, we know almost nothing about her at all. And more than that she is a playable character. Whether she is a fighter or quiter, strong or weak-willed is supposed to be up to the player. And I'm sure it will be. Just like in GGGB. Ashley could be a diligent student or stupid whore. And most probably it will be the same for Lena.
And about repeating. Let's be frank here. All adults games revolve around the same concepts. You cannot invent something new here. It is all about reshuffling the same stuff. Nothing new under the sun. It is impossible not to have some already explored routes from GGGB because there were so many of them. Ashley experienced almost every aspect of sexual human relationships in GGGB. She was a loyal girlfriend and cheater, straight or lesbian, loved big cocks, old guys, even a trans. Following your logic we should let it all go too. Why repeat?) Well, Eva Kiss hasn't explored sexual relationships between people and dogs or horses. That would be something new. If no repetion is so important, that's the way to go.
By the way, totally unrelated, but your concept of adult people is funny. Too bad it is far away from much more complicated reality.
They are 2 parts of the same puzzle. They can be simple friends (choice 1), they can be fuck buddies (choice 2) or they can be a couple (choice 3).
Or they can be just acquaintances.))) Since there are simply no more choices exist.
As seen at the end of Chapter 1, fate will put them in each other's path, even if they didn't learn each other's names yet. So naturally, I come to the conclusion that the game is going to be focused on the relationship between Ian and Lena but this relationship might not necessarily be romantic. I want to stress this again once and for all.
Or Ian and Lena are just going to revolve around the same people and affect them by the player's choices. The choices made by Ian are going to influence events and people around Lena, and those in turn are going to influence her. And Lena's choices are going to influence events and people around Ian and so on.
 
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HeroHate

Active Member
Oct 10, 2019
931
794
Seems pretty interesting all around, the last game had a lot of content too so I'm optimistic about this.
 

Lndlordd

Member
Apr 27, 2017
158
167
There appears to be a lot of criticism and most of it appears to be about what may or may not happen down the line. Considering the huge success & excellent quality of evakiss' first game, we should trust the dev knows what she's doing and wait for a few more releases before passing judgement. Just my opinion. Personally I loved it and look forward to the next chapter.

Btw The version in the op is the alpha version, the beta and the final version have been released. Can someone pls update it.
 

HeroHate

Active Member
Oct 10, 2019
931
794
There appears to be a lot of criticism and most of it appears to be about what may or may not happen down the line. Considering the huge success & excellent quality of evakiss' first game, we should trust the dev knows what she's doing and wait for a few more releases before passing judgement. Just my opinion. Personally I loved it and look forward to the next chapter.

Btw The version in the op is the alpha version, the beta and the final version have been released. Can someone pls update it.
The only thing I hated was that I wanted more!!!!!! Will be watching and waiting.
 
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BloodyMares

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,464
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All that stuff about Lena's character is no more than your perception of her based on very limited data of the very early version of the game. Actually, we know almost nothing about her at all. And more than that she is a playable character. Whether she is a fighter or quiter, strong or weak-willed is supposed to be up to the player. And I'm sure it will be. Just like in GGGB. Ashley could be a diligent student or stupid whore. And most probably it will be the same for Lena.
That is true that we know very little. And that is also true that we haven't seen all of Lena's or Ian's personality yet.
However, you can read between the lines and apply basic logic to analyze their character. When I see that Lena works 2 jobs and has side gigs, she strikes me as a very responsible and hardworking person. I know that it's still early to say and I might be ahead of myself to jump to conclusions but ORS feels very different from GGGB. If GGGB is more like Mass Effect or Skyrim where Shepard's or Dragonborn's personality is up to the player, ORS feels more in line with the Witcher: You do have choices but all those choices are based on who Geralt is and you can't change the core of his character.
And about repeating. Let's be frank here. All adults games revolve around the same concepts. You cannot invent something new here. Nothing new under the sun. It is impossible not to have some already explored routes from GGGB because there were so many of them. Ashley experienced almost every aspect of sexual human relationships in GGGB. She was a loyal girlfriend and cheater, straight or lesbian, loved big cocks, old guys, even a trans. Following your logic we should let it all go too. Why repeat?) Well, Eva Kiss hasn't explored sexual relationships between people and dogs or horses. That would be something new. If no repetion is so important, that's the way to go.
There's a difference between exploring similar themes and blatant copypaste. That's why we have many fantasy stories with a hero journey for example. You could argue that all of them are essentially the same story with the same morals, and yet all of them deserve recognition because they have something unique to them. That's why Star Wars sequels are so divisive. The Force Awakens is an unoriginal and pointless retread of the New Hope with different skins. It managed to succeed only because of nostalgia and the sour taste that Prequels left.
If it was all done before, GGGB wouldn't really have as much success as it did. There are very few adult visual novels with so many various choices and a well-written story. If you really think that GGGB explored everything, this is quite a narrow outlook to have. You are still thinking in terms of GGGB and think that ORS is GGGB 2. All of these weird perversions are not necessary to bring something new to the table. Although Ashley might have experienced many types of sexual relationships, I don't think she experienced many types of emotional relationships. Even if you take a similar idea, you can present it differently so it has something new and worthy of telling/showing. You can tell many different stories without either copypasting GGGB or resorting to paraphilia. Cocaine as a narrative device has exhausted itself in GGGB. Saying that you have to have it again in to trigger various sexual scenarios is underestimating EvaKiss' talent. I can imagine drugs being present to some extent but more like a cameo, only in a couple of scenes or on one path with 1 side character. Similar to the sex club scene on the Mom route in GGGB.
Or Ian and Lena are just going to revolve around the same people and affect them by the player's choices. The choices made by Ian are going to influence events and people around Lena, and those, in turn, are going to influence her. And Lena's choices are going to influence events and people around Ian and so on.
All of this is true. However, if them knowing each other and interacting with each other is not critical to the story, the very first scene wouldn't be the one in the cafe where they get to talk for the first time. It could start in Perry's apartment with Ian introducing himself and the rest of the world (the playground) to the player. Usually, in all the good stories, the first introductory scene sets up the most important thing about the narrative, be it the tone, the message, the conflict, the character or everything at once. And in the very first scene, we have very little control, both narratively and mechanically. As a player, you can only quit the game. And as Ian, you don't even get to choose whether you want to talk to Lena or not. Instead, Lena is the one who starts the interaction which Ian and the player can only react to. EvaKiss proved to be competent at writing and I don't think that it wasn't an intentional narrative choice to give the player a hint.

Anyway, time will tell. I am not claiming to be all-knowing or stating that I'm right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. I just think in terms of what is more likely to happen. All of my reasoning and arguments could become pointless and mute once 0.2 comes out and I will just accept that my expectations were different from what EvaKiss has envisioned. But I realize that this is her story and she can do with it whatever she wants and I embrace it for what it is and what it's going to be.
 

dundun

Active Member
Jul 6, 2017
709
2,243
By the way, am I the only one who thinks that Seymour is Axel's father?
They have different surnames :(, could be an uncle, though.

I think its no coincidence that none of the characters are related to each other. EvaKiss might not want to take that risk again. Unfortunately that also won't allow for kinks like cheating on your boyfriend with his father. Of course its possible some relatives of characters show up later in the game, save from anyone just taking a quick look at the game.

This first chapter feels a lot like some RomCom with Lena and Ian but it's already obvious that they don't have to fall for each other. Both are presented with 2 other romance choices. So I think it's more like the two circles of friends are destined to mingle. We have Lena and Ian who already met twice by chance, Jeremys new girlfriend is obviously Ivy and Alison Louise has a new boyfriend we don't know yet, too.

I liked to see the same scene from 2 different perspectives. I found it interesting to see what was going on in Lenas mind after I had to guess at it while playing as Ian.

Edit: Sorry, I meant Louise, Lena's goth roommate.
 
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BloodyMares

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,464
7,028
This first chapter feels a lot like some RomCom with Lena and Ian but it's already obvious that they don't have to fall for each other. Both are presented with 2 other romance choices. So I think it's more like the two circles of friends are destined to mingle. We have Lena and Ian who already met twice by chance, Jeremys new girlfriend is obviously Ivy and Alison has a new boyfriend we don't know yet, too.

I liked to see the same scene from 2 different perspectives. I found it interesting to see what was going on in Lenas mind after I had to guess at it while playing as Ian.
Yes, that is exactly the point that I tried to bring across. This is a small world so everyone will meet everyone at some point. Well, maybe not Stan cause he's self-isolated.
Does Alison have a new boyfriend? I think she said he broke up with her, that's why she flirts with Ian so obviously. If he shows no interest in her by refusing to meet with her at lunch, she somewhat shifts her interest towards Jeremy.

The problem with the same scene from 2 perspectives is that it makes Lena feel less playable than Ian. Ian can decide what to tell 3 times which results in 3 different outcomes (he doesn't get her name; Lena introduces herself; Ian introduces himself) while Lena is on autopilot in both of their scenes. Sure, knowing her perspective is nice but it's a small gain for having to witness the same scene twice. The same could be done using narration without repeating the same scene, similar to how Ashley sometimes narrates stuff in GGGB about what has happened. "While I was serving tables, I noticed that guy who was so focused on what he was doing and he intrigued me so I decided to have a small talk with him. I found out he was quite shy/charming/intelligent which I found cute." And so on. It achieves the same goal but doesn't feel repetitive and doesn't artificially make the game longer. I don't like overusing narrations but at least it saves time.
 

brg

Newbie
Dec 17, 2019
19
24
one of the best games out here, amazing job. excited for the next udate.
 

Bibifoc

Engaged Member
Apr 7, 2018
2,391
5,351
I'm totally hooked by the good vibes from this game :love:

How frequently can we expect updates?
 

Creeping Death

dies in loneliness
Donor
Jan 28, 2018
2,307
15,485


Character design (Perry)

One of the things I wanted to try and improve in ORS was giving the main characters more context. After all, we are who we are because of the people that surrounds us. To that end I wanted to put more focus and effort in the side characters that interact with the player.

Perry is a very peculiar character and I wanted him to be as far from generic as possible. He serves as Ian's sidekick and will help shape his character by establishing a comparison between their similarities and differences. Will you be a loyal friend to him or will you betray him? Will you help him out succeed or will you push him down into misery? Will you follow his footsteps or try an better yourself?

Other than that, I feel like Perry will let me introduce some very authentic and hopefully funny and comedic situations into the story! I will try my hand at writing this type of character, and I fell he'll be quite polarising. Either you have a sweet spot for him or you really hate him! That will be fun to explore and watch play out.
 

dundun

Active Member
Jul 6, 2017
709
2,243
Does Alison have a new boyfriend?
Sorry, I meant Louise, Lena's roommate.

The problem with the same scene from 2 perspectives is that it makes Lena feel less playable than Ian. Ian can decide what to tell 3 times which results in 3 different outcomes (he doesn't get her name; Lena introduces herself; Ian introduces himself) while Lena is on autopilot in both of their scenes. Sure, knowing her perspective is nice but it's a small gain for having to witness the same scene twice. The same could be done using narration without repeating the same scene, similar to how Ashley sometimes narrates stuff in GGGB about what has happened. "While I was serving tables, I noticed that guy who was so focused on what he was doing and he intrigued me so I decided to have a small talk with him. I found out he was quite shy/charming/intelligent which I found cute." And so on. It achieves the same goal but doesn't feel repetitive and doesn't artificially make the game longer. I don't like overusing narrations but at least it saves time.
Obviously she can't choose what to say because she already said it. So whoever goes second through the scene can't choose. It's also not the exactly the same scene, only their dialogue is repeated but instead of Ian's thoughts we now see Lena's. Both versions of the scene work as an introduction into a character we just met. You say you don't like narration and there is a good reason for that. To turn your argument around, the second run through the scene does the same as narrative, only it adds something interesting.
Showing the same scene again from a different perspective is also nothing new, there are whole films (Rashomon) and TV shows (The Affair) build upon this premise. Yes, maybe it will become tedious is EvaKiss can't keep the second perspective interesting but the STRG key is right there so I'm not so worried. Also there is no new artwork necessary so the second scene is very cheap in production time.
 

BloodyMares

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,464
7,028
Obviously she can't choose what to say because she already said it. So whoever goes second through the scene can't choose. It's also not the exactly the same scene, only their dialogue is repeated but instead of Ian's thoughts we now see Lena's. Both versions of the scene work as an introduction into a character we just met. You say you don't like narration and there is a good reason for that. To turn your argument around, the second run through the scene does the same as narrative, only it adds something interesting.
Showing the same scene again from a different perspective is also nothing new, there are whole films (Rashomon) and TV shows (The Affair) build upon this premise. Yes, maybe it will become tedious is EvaKiss can't keep the second perspective interesting but the STRG key is right there so I'm not so worried. Also there is no new artwork necessary so the second scene is very cheap in production time.
I mean, yes, she already said it and it all happened, and her perspective serves to fill the void, kinda like a flashback, and it would've been all good if it was just a graphic novel without interactivity. But because Lena is supposed to be the player characters, it is a bit off-putting that the player has some control in those scenes as Ian but not Lena.
Granted, I do like the second cafe scene where Ian comes with either Holly or Alison because he comes in the second half of the scene while in the first half she deals with Mr. Van Dyke so it feels like an expansion on the previous scene rather than a simple retelling from a different POV. The first scene felt more tedious because I felt it didn't add enough of the new perspective to warrant showing all of that same dialogue again. Like, while serving both as an introduction scene, Ian has more screentime. He has more close-ups, we can see the book from his POV, we see his facial expressions that display boredom until Lena distracts him. It feels personal. In contrast, Lena just stands there. We don't get more intimate close-ups from her perspective. Like, maybe show a close-up of her, how she feels somewhat bored serving tables until she takes notice of Ian. I know that's not that serious and I'm nit-picking but it would add to her POV.
 

BloodyMares

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,464
7,028
After replaying this chapter one more time, I have this funny impression that the story was inspired by Bon Jovi - Livin' On a Prayer.

"She says we've got to hold on to what we've got
It doesn't make a difference if we make it or not
We've got each other and that's a lot
For love, we'll give it a shot"
 

Deleted member 1044747

Formerly 'decent'
Donor
Nov 27, 2018
335
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I kinda wished the male MC would look like Perry because I totally dig his appearance (Ian on the other hand looks a bit bland in my opinion).


Anyways, I just came across the scene where Lena comes back home at night.

It's so nice to see that EvaKiss included two versions of Lena's room:
One at daytime and one at nighttime with a lit-up chain of lights.

It's just a small detail, but I really like it.

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