VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.3] [Eva Kiss]

[pantypriv]

Come to think of it, is there any really decent male characters in the game besides Ian (which we may choose to corrupt?)
I mean, Jeremy is an ass (as mentioned), Perry is an annoying nitwit, Wade is self-destructive, Seymour has a black soul for sure, Robert is a major douche, Axel is a scumbag...and Stan is a creepy guy (perhaps he's harmless) And how can one forget Milo(surely a comical character?)
That leaves...the trainer Wen(?), perhaps the cafe owner Ed(though...), maybe Mike the DJ(cheater), the author Victor aaand Billy...well I wouldn't trust him

 

[leg28]

So I'm a huge fan off GGGB and enjoy Our Red String but personally I really am not a fan of most of the LI for either Lana or Ian.
Honestly other then Holy, Louise, and each other it just feels like the other LI are either cheaters, bad people, or just meh. Also Jeremy has to be one of the worst "friends". Cheats, lies, and just all around ass. I hope you get the chance as Ian in the fighting tourney to lay him on his ass, lol.

Come to think of it, is there any really decent male characters in the game besides Ian (which we may choose to corrupt?)
I mean, Jeremy is an ass (as mentioned), Perry is an annoying nitwit, Wade is self-destructive, Seymour has a black soul for sure, Robert is a major douche, Axel is a scumbag...and Stan is a creepy guy (perhaps he's harmless)
That leaves...the trainer Wen(?), perhaps the cafe owner(though...), maybe this DJ at the nightclub, the author Viktor aaand Billy...well I wouldn't trust him

it is adult game... what did you expect than cheating, corruption, debauchery and sex? like you never played gggb. anyway you can still choose not to corrupt 2 mcs and live victorian novel romance - she met him and they lived happily ever after without sluts and bbc involved. but where is the fun? multiple novels that you have inside one? i played that version (exclusivity) too, but it is boring. you can play celibacy version with lena and ian have no sex at all. that is a charm of this novel/game - choices matter for real.
also i wouldn't be portraying charachters so b&w like you did. remarks you gave stays, but there are more layers in this cake. it is up to you to choose. e.g. jeremy has his bro code, he is against cheating bros. lena just happened, landed in his bed. who would say no. he is not feeling good about it but it is not that you have option to say no in behalf of jeremy. louise he considers self-imposed gf but she is too good fuck to dump her.

 

[pantypriv]

Oh, don't misunderstand, I totally get that its not a romance novel; I wouldn't be around if it was.
And of course they were simplified comments, I'm just observing with a slight tongue in cheek
Though, "who could say no"? A decent friend perhaps?

I tried out a total corruption playthrough yesterday actually
Which means sleeping with more or less everyone, which is how I discovered there even was a Lena-Jeremy path!
I actually hope Ian will get a potential chance with Louise.

 

[BlandChili]

I see no reason why the game couldn't have male options that fit different genres and personalities. One of the reasons why I dislike Lena's male options is because they're all dull and I find that it makes the game boring when they essentially stroke similar kinks.

GGGB had Dave who was a nice dude but it was Ash who had to accomodate some kind of corrupting influence to get him, either letting her bestie fall to corruption or get a friend to directly seduce her. Besides that you could also facilitate other pairings for him if Ash became involved with his girlfriend.
Jack while a stereotypical gym-bro suave douche at least has some defineable standards and more to him than his looks as a point of interest, then he also eventually reveals decently interesting backstory if Ash is persistent enough and cares to uncover it.

Most of the ORS options for Lena only have clearly negative traits.
Robert abuses his position and is otherwise an emotional wet-rag pathetically hoping for affection from women who don't regard him as anything but a distraction.
Mike's a cheater and while I don't doubt some people find that kind of content interesting he's so detached from the story that he might as well be a nameless NPC, you also have no idea who his girlfriend is so any humiliation kinks are imagined so far.
Jeremy's got the spine of a sponge and the personality and ambition of a fruit fly - and is not even really seductive - which could have at least been a bit been interesting. He only gets some when the women fall over him for the dullest reasons or when they go ignored by others, Alison wants to feel better about herself if Ian isn't interested and Louise literally wants anyone to cling to, to Ivy he's a tool and to Lena he's a toy. No one has any reason to give a damn about him.
Seymour's a pretentious prick with a motive no one understands. To me the blackmail route also seems somewhat rushed, I would have preferred a more gradual story where Lena could optionally work closer with him as the story progressed and get woven into his business.
Axel's the cheating ex and clearly a puppet for better men to control. At least with Axel you get some alternative reason that he attracts attention besides being a man-hunk in that he has a creative pursuit that he uses both for a living and to attract others.

GGGB wasn't comparatively amazing by any means, but at least there was some variety to the different routes and what each character brought to the table. Eric could be the cuck or get himself a redemption arc, Dave could become available through circumstance or direct manipulation, Jack can become a proper love interest or remain the casual fuck buddy.
By comparison Lena only has a flock of options that require her to compromise with her own experience and morals and then of course Ian who the player gets to define (which to me makes him a boring option).

Of course those are still decent options if that's what you're into, I think corruption material can be hot too, but when they're the only option I think they become dull. Part of what I enjoyed about some of the male options in GGGB was that I as a player got to decide the direction of each option, so far Lena only has "no/yes" options.

 

[Princess Groundhog]

Well said. This is why our ultimate hope is for Holly.

 

[Skjall]

I see no reason ... /snip

I wholeheartedly agree with your post.

And (in my instance, don't know about others) there's also a problem of replayability. We have a bang everything route and four main girls for Ian to pursue. All of them are different enough to warrant a separate playthrough with each of them.
So, if you decide to go one of the non-Lena routes, her story is mainly going downhill every time. And ctrl-speeding her part of the story. There's no "Dave" as an alternative for a corruption route.
And the problem gets multiplied even more if we pair Ian and Holly. We are loosing even a wholesome 2-girl option.

 

[TheBlackGungir]

I see no reason why the game couldn't have male options that fit different genres and personalities. One of the reasons why I dislike Lena's male options is because they're all dull and I find that it makes the game boring when they essentially stroke similar kinks.

GGGB had Dave who was a nice dude but it was Ash who had to accomodate some kind of corrupting influence to get him, either letting her bestie fall to corruption or get a friend to directly seduce her. Besides that you could also facilitate other pairings for him if Ash became involved with his girlfriend.
Jack while a stereotypical gym-bro suave douche at least has some defineable standards and more to him than his looks as a point of interest, then he also eventually reveals decently interesting backstory if Ash is persistent enough and cares to uncover it.

Most of the ORS options for Lena only have clearly negative traits.
Robert abuses his position and is otherwise an emotional wet-rag pathetically hoping for affection from women who don't regard him as anything but a distraction.
Mike's a cheater and while I don't doubt some people find that kind of content interesting he's so detached from the story that he might as well be a nameless NPC, you also have no idea who his girlfriend is so any humiliation kinks are imagined so far.
Jeremy's got the spine of a sponge and the personality and ambition of a fruit fly - and is not even really seductive - which could have at least been a bit been interesting. He only gets some when the women fall over him for the dullest reasons or when they go ignored by others, Alison wants to feel better about herself if Ian isn't interested and Louise literally wants anyone to cling to, to Ivy he's a tool and to Lena he's a toy. No one has any reason to give a damn about him.
Seymour's a pretentious prick with a motive no one understands. To me the blackmail route also seems somewhat rushed, I would have preferred a more gradual story where Lena could optionally work closer with him as the story progressed and get woven into his business.
Axel's the cheating ex and clearly a puppet for better men to control. At least with Axel you get some alternative reason that he attracts attention besides being a man-hunk in that he has a creative pursuit that he uses both for a living and to attract others.

GGGB wasn't comparatively amazing by any means, but at least there was some variety to the different routes and what each character brought to the table. Eric could be the cuck or get himself a redemption arc, Dave could become available through circumstance or direct manipulation, Jack can become a proper love interest or remain the casual fuck buddy.
By comparison Lena only has a flock of options that require her to compromise with her own experience and morals and then of course Ian who the player gets to define (which to me makes him a boring option).

Of course those are still decent options if that's what you're into, I think corruption material can be hot too, but when they're the only option I think they become dull. Part of what I enjoyed about some of the male options in GGGB was that I as a player got to decide the direction of each option, so far Lena only has "no/yes" options.

100% agree one of the big things I hope for part 2 is to add some new characters especially in Lena path that are at least light gray on the moral scale or more some plain good people. It's weird that Ian is the only good guy in her life and Holly the only good female in her life it just makes the corruption less impactful.
Another thing is did we really need Seymour as an antagonist with all these people who are kinda just assholes or at least my perspective antagonist themselves. Why not have us go through the game and allow drama to happen based on our choices just my 2 cents.

I feel though this game could've had Seymour as another character that introduces her to the higher living and with how Lena views those events maybe starts losing interest in music or at least doesn't have time with that or friends or even dating which could all accumulate into the scene where instead of Seymour blackmailing here maybe if you don't want to pay or don't have the money to help the parents maybe then you ask for a bigger loan than normal and then offers that contract I feel as though that would work better for the corruption Seymour route then the blackmail right now which feels weird for any type of Lena you may play.

 

[BlandChili]

And (in my instance, don't know about others) there's also a problem of replayability. We have a bang everything route and four main girls for Ian to pursue. All of them are different enough to warrant a separate playthrough with each of them.

The real difference that I see in Ian's options is that there is player influence with each girl.
Alison. You can choose the romantic route, sharing with Jeremy or even to be the pure voyeur.
Cherry. You can pursue her yourself or attempt to be the wingman to Perry.
Emma. Same as Cherry + you can share her with Jeremy.
Cindy. You can be Wade's friend and attempt to maintain their relationship, you can ignore her and you can pursue her the last option also seems to be branching off into romance and cheating routes.
Holly. You can romance her, just fuck her or ignore her completely. Each route interacts with Lena's choices regarding her and Ivy.
Minerva. Dunno, don't play her content.

Like with Ash's options in GGGB you can control the different routes in some way. For Lena it is almost always just a choice between fucking it or not. Holly and Louise can be directed in certain directions but some of the options appear to be self-sabotage in regards as them as options for Lena. You can fuck Louise or not or you can keep her with Jeremy to get his content. You can influence Holly but it is unclear how much variety this route will have depending on choosing to encourage her to pole dance.

Another thing is did we really need Seymour as an antagonist with all these people who are kinda just assholes or at least my perspective antagonist themselves. Why not have us go through the game and allow drama to happen based on our choices just my 2 cents.
I feel though this game could've had Seymour as another character that introduces her to the higher living and with how Lena views those events maybe starts losing interest in music or at least doesn't have time with that or friends or even dating which could all accumulate into the scene where instead of Seymour blackmailing here maybe if you don't want to pay or don't have the money to help the parents maybe then you ask for a bigger loan than normal and then offers that contract I feel as though that would work better for the corruption Seymour route then the blackmail right now which feels weird for any type of Lena you may play.

I don't mind him as an antagonist but I would personally have preferred a longer build-up where Lena had to decide to focus on work options with him or other people. Down the line Lena could perhaps become so entangled with him that there'd be more concrete bounds for Seymour's blackmail instead of all the general shit he pulls out his ass.

 

[leg28]

I see no reason why the game couldn't have male options that fit different genres and personalities. One of the reasons why I dislike Lena's male options is because they're all dull and I find that it makes the game boring when they essentially stroke similar kinks.

GGGB had Dave who was a nice dude but it was Ash who had to accomodate some kind of corrupting influence to get him, either letting her bestie fall to corruption or get a friend to directly seduce her. Besides that you could also facilitate other pairings for him if Ash became involved with his girlfriend.
Jack while a stereotypical gym-bro suave douche at least has some defineable standards and more to him than his looks as a point of interest, then he also eventually reveals decently interesting backstory if Ash is persistent enough and cares to uncover it.

Most of the ORS options for Lena only have clearly negative traits.
Robert abuses his position and is otherwise an emotional wet-rag pathetically hoping for affection from women who don't regard him as anything but a distraction.
Mike's a cheater and while I don't doubt some people find that kind of content interesting he's so detached from the story that he might as well be a nameless NPC, you also have no idea who his girlfriend is so any humiliation kinks are imagined so far.
Jeremy's got the spine of a sponge and the personality and ambition of a fruit fly - and is not even really seductive - which could have at least been a bit been interesting. He only gets some when the women fall over him for the dullest reasons or when they go ignored by others, Alison wants to feel better about herself if Ian isn't interested and Louise literally wants anyone to cling to, to Ivy he's a tool and to Lena he's a toy. No one has any reason to give a damn about him.
Seymour's a pretentious prick with a motive no one understands. To me the blackmail route also seems somewhat rushed, I would have preferred a more gradual story where Lena could optionally work closer with him as the story progressed and get woven into his business.
Axel's the cheating ex and clearly a puppet for better men to control. At least with Axel you get some alternative reason that he attracts attention besides being a man-hunk in that he has a creative pursuit that he uses both for a living and to attract others.

GGGB wasn't comparatively amazing by any means, but at least there was some variety to the different routes and what each character brought to the table. Eric could be the cuck or get himself a redemption arc, Dave could become available through circumstance or direct manipulation, Jack can become a proper love interest or remain the casual fuck buddy.
By comparison Lena only has a flock of options that require her to compromise with her own experience and morals and then of course Ian who the player gets to define (which to me makes him a boring option).

Of course those are still decent options if that's what you're into, I think corruption material can be hot too, but when they're the only option I think they become dull. Part of what I enjoyed about some of the male options in GGGB was that I as a player got to decide the direction of each option, so far Lena only has "no/yes" options.

yeah, much of these you said is correct. it all depends of devs plans. eva can soon close the story or stretch it as interesting serial, adult soap-opera and run it through years. that is only way to develop some charachters and move from flaws you mentioned. but with that many choices it will be difficult to work on such complex game.

 

[Reasoon]

Jeremy's got the spine of a sponge and the personality and ambition of a fruit fly - and is not even really seductive - which could have at least been a bit been interesting. He only gets some when the women fall over him for the dullest reasons or when they go ignored by others, Alison wants to feel better about herself if Ian isn't interested and Louise literally wants anyone to cling to, to Ivy he's a tool and to Lena he's a toy. No one has any reason to give a damn about him.

This is the best Characterization of Jeremy and his Role in the Game I've seen so far!

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

snip

Haha love your definitons of Seymour and Jeremy

Well said. This is why our ultimate hope is for Holly.

I still hope Emma can be a good match for Lena too with the whole music band sidequest.

 

[Princess Groundhog]

I still hope Emma can be a good match for Lena too with the whole music band sidequest.

Yes, I do hope for a nice and kinky romance with Emma and Lena! We shall see, I guess. Might be too much for Eva, but they have been hanging out a lot lately, and Emma was really admiring Lena when they played music!

 

[AggressiveDG]

Good job

 

[doctor13]

I think Seymour will ask Lena to butter Emma up while he tries to buy the music shop.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

I think Seymour will ask Lena to butter Emma up while he tries to buy the music shop.

That seems the kind of petty thing he would do.
Not going to lie i really do hope that there is a path to fuck Seymour up in a not fun way in the future.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

in case you meanwhile didn't find it yourself: both mcs can still have sex with other people before that talk and be couple (not fuck-buddies) and experiment together. after you decided on that ian can go and do cindy and lena axel.

Thanks. Yep. Found it. That one's pretty common in playthroughs since many people are having Ian and Lena both sleep with people outside of the pairing and often avoiding Jeremy, who nixes that option. Playthroughs I'm most interested in don't have them both sleeping around with a bunch of people though, except maybe sharing Holly once that inevitable option becomes available.

 

[Lunix00]

Spoiler: About Seymour

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[ename144]

Well said. This is why our ultimate hope is for Holly.

Even that doesn't work for me, since I want to keep Holly with Ian. Lena's portions of the game are horrible in my preferred playthrough, it's a rapid-fire string of obnoxious jerks and miserable events with no reprieve.

So I've mostly stuck with the Ian/Lena path instead, which is nice enough in theory but as BlandChili said it's a bit underwhelming playing both sides of the relationship. And it leaves poor Holly alone. (I realize there's likely to be a threesome path for Ian, Lena and Holly eventually, but so far the game has not sold me on that grouping.)

The real difference that I see in Ian's options is that there is player influence with each girl.
Alison. You can choose the romantic route, sharing with Jeremy or even to be the pure voyeur.
Cherry. You can pursue her yourself or attempt to be the wingman to Perry.
Emma. Same as Cherry + you can share her with Jeremy.
Cindy. You can be Wade's friend and attempt to maintain their relationship, you can ignore her and you can pursue her the last option also seems to be branching off into romance and cheating routes.
Holly. You can romance her, just fuck her or ignore her completely. Each route interacts with Lena's choices regarding her and Ivy.
Minerva. Dunno, don't play her content.

Like with Ash's options in GGGB you can control the different routes in some way. For Lena it is almost always just a choice between fucking it or not. Holly and Louise can be directed in certain directions but some of the options appear to be self-sabotage in regards as them as options for Lena. You can fuck Louise or not or you can keep her with Jeremy to get his content. You can influence Holly but it is unclear how much variety this route will have depending on choosing to encourage her to pole dance.

Very much agreed.

I don't mind him as an antagonist but I would personally have preferred a longer build-up where Lena had to decide to focus on work options with him or other people. Down the line Lena could perhaps become so entangled with him that there'd be more concrete bounds for Seymour's blackmail instead of all the general shit he pulls out his ass.

To be fair, that would make Seymour less of an antagonist since he'd be limited to certain playthroughs. If he keeps pursuing Lena when she stonewalls him we'd eventually have the same problem we have now. (Alternatively, if he's drawn to Lena specifically because she refuses to bend to his will, it undermines why he'd be interested in a Lena who volunteers for his route.)

I guess you could try to have alternative reasons for Seymour to become obsessed with a less corrupt Lena when the time comes (wanting to buy the Van Dyke's cafe, shut down Emma and her activist friends, have a vendetta against Lena's parents, that sort of thing), but I'm skeptical that would make for a very satisfying showdown.

 

[BlandChili]

To be fair, that would make Seymour less of an antagonist since he'd be limited to certain playthroughs. If he keeps pursuing Lena when she stonewalls him we'd eventually have the same problem we have now. (Alternatively, if he's drawn to Lena specifically because she refuses to bend to his will, it undermines why he'd be interested in a Lena who volunteers for his route.)

I guess you could try to have alternative reasons for Seymour to become obsessed with a less corrupt Lena when the time comes (wanting to buy the Van Dyke's cafe, shut down Emma and her activist friends, have a vendetta against Lena's parents, that sort of thing), but I'm skeptical that would make for a very satisfying showdown.

Fair points.

If I were to construct a longer build-up for Seymour's story I would perhaps give each route their own background for Seymour's interest. So as Lena's story progresses in this version I'd present several points where Lena has to choose to accept another appointment with Seymour or another work opportunity (for example live-art event, music event, work with Billy/Danny). Seymour's route would offer more goodies like the necklace for the Lena who accomodates him making it a rewarding, if materialistic, relationship.

So, for the Lena who chooses to keep working with him, in that route it should be obvious that he enjoys working with her, wants a more "intimate" relation (as he might put it) and Lena can't really refuse because she's turned down all the other offers. To refuse would be to put herself back into poverty.
On the opposing route Lena's involvement with the music store, the cafe and Billy/Danny (possibly the Fortress too) she's basically become a pest to him who's been helping local businesses keep going despite his offers to purchase them. In this route he would then present the blackmail version of the contract, Lena is still Lena and an attractive asset even if she's denied him this far.

I actually think something like this is what Eva intended for Seymour but because Lena's only really had the option to work for him a few times, lacking the refusal option seems weird. Add to that, that for all of Lena's story she hasn't really had to choose between Seymour and other work, she could do both. I'd keep the story as it is up to ch. 9 but extend the build-up a couple of chapters more, where I'd begin to include those options to choose between work with Seymour and further opportunities with the local businesses.

 

[BloodyMares]

I think Seymour will ask Lena to butter Emma up while he tries to buy the music shop.

Yes, I've been thinking about this as well. While subduing Lena's will might be a turn-on for him on its own, I don't think he showed all of his cards yet. I very much suspect he intends to use Lena to safeguard his future business deals as well. It was already hinted at when he worked with Agnes and how fast he switched faces from being an attentive authority figure (that a type of Lena was enjoying) to a desperate manipulator who wants to please Agnes and their business arrangement showing no regard for Lena's comfort as his model whatsoever. Perhaps knowing that she works in the cafe he intends to acquire, performs with a pesky activist who tries to undermine his goals and knowing that very few men would resist her charms (thus, the constant theme of their shoots being about her role as a seductress and an object of men's desire) made him realize her potential as his negotiations tactics first and foremost, both for business deals and damage control (get Emma out of the picture). He can't outright tell her that and offer becoming his dark Padawan, otherwise she'll realize all this power that she has and he won't be able to control her. That's why I think he put that clause about proactivity and didn't set any limits to sexual contact in his contract aside from Lena's consent. Doing an underhanded "photo shoot" while his competitors fuck Lena will give him an ultimate edge with so much compromising evidence against them and none of his involvement (Lena wouldn't want to out herself like this and become a complicit in his illegal actions).

P.S. it's entirely my speculation based on the facts presented in this game. If things play out exactly the same way, then it will be pure coincidence and a huge success of my detective work.