VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

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ffive

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Jun 19, 2022
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Zara Scarlet said:
That's why I said they were angry and disgusted by them. As far as Lena is concerned, if you choose for her to completely blank Axel out, it's clear you've chosen for her to hate him. I just don't think it's a fixed position when the game starts.
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It is the fixed position when the game starts. It's why Lena left Axel in the first place, and it's her starting viewpoint. You can have Lena relapse into dependency on Axel, by choosing to activate her desire flag and by improving relationship score, but note these are changes from what her position is like at th start of the game.

Lena canonicaly starts with no desire for Axel, her opinion of him is 0, and her internal monologues are all about her wanting to never see him again. Not "but he's soooo hot, i'm getting all wet".
 
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Zara Scarlet

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Apr 3, 2022
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ffive said:
It is the fixed position when the game starts. It's why Lena left Axel in the first place, and it's her starting viewpoint. You can have Lena relapse into dependency on Axel, by choosing to activate her desire flag and by improving relationship score, but note these are changes from what her position is like at th start of the game.

Lena canonicaly starts with no desire for Axel, her opinion of him is 0, and her internal monologues are all about her wanting to never see him again. Not "but he's soooo hot, i'm getting all wet".
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What you're talking about, is what Lena 'believes' to be her position. But it's clear that what she 'believes' is not necessarily true. She might 'believe' that she hates Axel, and she might tell everybody that she hates him. But the reality is, that she doesn't know her own mind, until the player decides that for her.

After the second meeting with Axel, when him and Robert fight. If Lena calls Ivy, she tells Lena, that it's clear Lena hasn't moved on from her relationship with Axel. She is very clearly undecided as to her position with Axel, regardless of what the relationship stats may say. On the cuck route, it's possible to have almost a zero relationship score, and still be in a loving relationship. So those stats don't really mean anything at all.
 
F

ffive

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Jun 19, 2022
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Zara Scarlet said:
What you're talking about, is what Lena 'believes' to be her position.
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I'm talking about Lena's position encoded by mechanics of the game. If you're going to just disregard it and assign your own preference to her with nothing but "she believes this but she's wrong and she actually has no stance whatsoever" then this is pointless debate.

Also, "she believes this is her position" as implication that's not the actual case is pretty much sophistry -- the belief is what determines one's position. If i believe Robert is a piece of shit worthy of nothing but scorn then that is my position on Robert and not "something i think but i actually don't".

But the reality is, that she doesn't know her own mind, until the player decides that for her.
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No, in reality Lena does have position which the player can influence and overturn with their choices. Just like Holly has her own initial mindset which can be influenced and changed.

Note that it would be just as easy for the game to start with Lena's desire for Axel to be active, and only to be deactivated if she chooses to destroy his pictures (or retained if she doesn't) The outcome would be the same as far as Lena/Axel is concerned, and it'd be a better match for this idea that Lena is supposedly conflicted about Axel. So the fact this is not the case and Lena starts without such urge likely reflects what is her initial, actual stance on this matter.

If Lena calls Ivy, she tells Lena, that it's clear Lena hasn't moved on from her relationship with Axel.
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Just because Ivy says that doesn't mean this is objective truth -- Ivy has shown herself to be manipulative, and there's speculations she's actively working to get Lena back with Axel, either because she believes this is actually good for Lena, or due to more nefarious/selfish motives.
 
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lucadiadis

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May 25, 2018
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ffive said:
I'm talking about Lena's position encoded by mechanics of the game. If you're going to just disregard it and assign your own preference to her with nothing but "she believes this but she's wrong and she actually has no stance whatsoever" then this is pointless debate.

Also, "she believes this is her position" as implication that's not the actual case is pretty much sophistry -- the belief is what determines one's position. If i believe Robert is a piece of shit worthy of nothing but scorn then that is my position on Robert and not "something i think but i actually don't".


No, in reality Lena does have position which the player can influence and overturn with their choices. Just like Holly has her own initial mindset which can be influenced and changed.

Note that it would be just as easy for the game to start with Lena's desire for Axel to be active, and only to be deactivated if she chooses to destroy his pictures (or retained if she doesn't) The outcome would be the same as far as Lena/Axel is concerned, and it'd be a better match for this idea that Lena is supposedly conflicted about Axel. So the fact this is not the case and Lena starts without such urge likely reflects what is her initial, actual stance on this matter.


Just because Ivy says that doesn't mean this is objective truth -- Ivy has shown herself to be manipulative, and there's speculations she's actively working to get Lena back with Axel, either because she believes this is actually good for Lena, or due to more nefarious/selfish motives.
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My like is due to the fact that anyone using the term "sophistry" on a porn game forum deserves to be praised.
 
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Erectosaurus

Erectosaurus

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Dec 28, 2018
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Fired up some of my alt saves to check out some different paths. Seems like if Lena sluts around enough and Jeremy has a high relationship with Ian he'll actually be a good friend and basically tell Ian she belongs to the streets and Ian will be conflicted about keeping her in his life. Wonder how that will play out...
 
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4.60 star(s) 354 Votes