VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.2 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[Cabot]

You're putting a lot into lifegetsweird's mouth here that they never said. They never asked for transphobic characters not to be displayed, or for the language they use to be censored...

I reeeally could have done without the extremely transphobic language :/ it came out of left field too.

 

[teocz]

Nice touch, in my bitchy route:

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While in the "romance" route:

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What action makes her change like this?

Wait good Jessica has more Rounded and bigger boob's than Bad Jessica?time for another playthrough

 

[BloodyMares]

If you are creating something your ideals are going into it.

Very hot take. Sometimes for the world and characters to feel alive, you need to mix it up with various ranging personalities. The world isn't made of sunshine and bunnies. And just because it's a minority topic, it doesn't mean that it has to be strictly one-sided and politically correct. Once again, only Cindy of the bunch shows awareness about this topic, but for some reason, this is ignored. Why? Nobody wants to acknowledge that detail and focuses their attention on Wade and Ian. If Ian is allowed to be played as Mr. Right in every situation, then he would become a boring Gary Stu. They are all a bunch of young adults who don't always say the right thing, Perry being the prime example of opening his mouth when nobody asks him. But in this scene, he's somewhat redeemed and is made more likable. It wasn't 2 politicians having a political debate, it was just friends talking. And ironically, Perry who hates talking about politics ends up being very politically vocal in this scene which might actually lead to him becoming more interested in politics. Does nobody care about character development?

 

[godoff95]

Guys you're giving her more importance than necessary.

 

[Cabot]

Well everything is political.

Maybe to you. I know not all my casual conversations among friends necessarily dial to one hundred the political angle.

In this instance Ian and the gang were arguing about porn and kinks, nothing more. You would have seized the opportunity to make a political stance? Good for you (seriously, nobody said political is a dirty word, that was a straw man fallacy you played ). Others don't.

 

[BloodyMares]

That's not a very sensible take, lifegetsweird's reaction was not sensitive at all. They're asking for an additional option that allows Ian to express a more direct opposition to the depiction of transgender. If anything, the walls of text you put up deflecting all the criticism is what's sensitive.

A long time ago, I already explained that despite Ian and Lena being the protagonists, they are not the player inserted into the game. They have their own personalities that you might not like and disagree with, but can't rewrite. You can't make them say things that aren't accounted for by the script. It's not a shortcoming of Eva of not predicting that a player might want to say that thing to feel more in sync with the playable character, it's just that Ian or Lena in that situation doesn't act this way for one reason or another. Ian might not want to directly antagonize Wade. In fact, in the entirety of the game, he never had the option to say a bad thing to Wade with the intention to antagonize him, while at the same time constantly bickering with Perry and having banter with him. It's just how their character dynamic worked to this point. You might like it and appreciate this detail, or dislike it for the lack of player agency. But it is how it is.

 

[BlandChili]

A long time ago, I already explained that despite Ian and Lena being the protagonists, they are not the player inserted into the game. They have their own personalities that you might not like and disagree with, but can't rewrite. You can't make them say things that aren't accounted for by the script. It's not a shortcoming of Eva of not predicting that a player might want to say that thing to feel more in sync with the playable character, it's just that Ian or Lena in that situation doesn't act this way for one reason or another. Ian might not want to directly antagonize Wade. In fact, in the entirety of the game, he never had the option to say a bad thing to Wade with the intention to antagonize him, while at the same time constantly bickering with Perry and having banter with him. It's just how their character dynamic worked to this point. You might like it and appreciate this detail, or dislike it for the lack of player agency. But it is how it is.

Ian and Lena being defined characters doesn't mean they can't have options speaking up for transgender. Nothing in Ian's history suggests that he wouldn't have the capacity to make such a response and not cause a scene. If anything, Ian seems to be very perceptive and in previous chapters of ORS we have options of calling out Wade already. We don't have to antagonize him, or the intention behind it doesn't need to be that, for Ian to speak up.

 

[al3mu]

Im just going to place my bet here early:
Emma will be the first character to incite a threesome, ian/emma/lena and ian/jeremy/emma . The choices and scenes in c7 point in this direction imo.

 

[Master5043]

Hi, does anyone have an idea, why Eva made most of male characters annoying? Take a look:
Axel is a typical abuser, Robert trying to be bully macho-man, but can be punched by Ian twice, and aches about "feelings". He probably have some complex.
Perry is annoying, Wade acts like a man in a midlife crisis(Typical Michael from GTAV), lives a passive life like a vegetable. Stan... no words, just Creepy Stan.
The only characters that gives a positive vibes for me are Jeremy, Mike and Seymour. And probably new black dude from 0.7

 

[Cicica]

So, what should it be? Here's the moment of an absolute agency where you get to rewrite the script.

In my humble opinion if there isn't any gay/trans content planned for the future, I'd avoid these things, as they are not taken very well in this day and age. I mean, I look at myself and if I had the choice to hide this kind of a discussion for my playthrough, I'd do it. At the same time, I liked it how she handled the trans content in GGGB, given that I didn't really have to interact much with it, considering I don't like it in the first place. So if Eva absolutely wants to introduce gay/trans, at least make it totally avoidable unless a very specific path is taken. You can't please everyone in this world, so there is that...

 

[Cicica]

Hi, does anyone have an idea, why Eva made most of male characters annoying? Take a look:
Axel is a typical abuser, Robert trying to be bully macho-man, but can be punched by Ian twice, and aches about "feelings". He probably have some complex.
Perry is annoying, Wade acts like a man in a midlife crisis(Typical Michael from GTAV), lives a passive life like a vegetable. Stan... no words, just Creepy Stan.
The only characters that gives a positive vibes for me are Jeremy, Mike and Seymour. And probably new black dude from 0.7

I guess because most guys are like this IRL. I mean I am a dude and these are the stereotypes that I see everywhere around me. Either one of these, mostly the first two... So at least I think she wanted to create a very realistic environment for all the dudes in the game, with Ian being the more average Joe, even "boring" if you will, but in a good way in my opinion, depending, of course, on the path that you take.

 

[thomastm]

I will never understand the reasoning behind this decision.
Lena already barely has any relationship in the game so far when compared to Ian (not including protagonists fucking each other) and to not get the depressing and drugged version of Jessica you need to cut off two out of three of Lena's possibles sexual partners .

But in my playthrough Lena have sex with Robert & Mike and still get good Jess Here the save file

 

[Skylark21]

But in my playthrough Lena have sex with Robert & Mike and still get good Jess Here the save file

I guess it's older save file? Earlier fate of Jessica depended on Ian's interaction with Cherry(I think so) but it changed to LenaxRobert/Mike after v5 enhanced version.

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

Spoiler: The transgender conversation

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[Master5043]

I guess because most guys are like this IRL. I mean I am a dude and these are the stereotypes that I see everywhere around me. Either one of these, mostly the first two... So at least I think she wanted to create a very realistic environment for all the dudes in the game, with Ian being the more average Joe, even "boring" if you will, but in a good way in my opinion, depending, of course, on the path that you take.

I don't find Ian boring. At the beginning of the game, maybe yes. But then it all depends on the player - whether he should be an alpha or beta, or something in between.
It's generally good that Eva made the characters contradictory. It makes a game more alive and realistic, but i hope for more characters, that gives a positive energy in the future updates.

 

[maksblack1000]

anyone could share the lesbian route with Louse?

 

[Cawapuce2321]

Okay, let me tell you this behind-the-scenes secret. This conversation was initially in Chapter 6, with a bit different context. Ian didn't have the option to be neutral. At all. I brought it up to Eva, so she decided to cut it out and replaced the conversation with Perry and Wade checking Ivy's and Lena's Peoplegram. I realized that she decided to implement this dialogue in Chapter 7 at least, but added options to be actively transphobic, be neutral or make fun of Perry while avoiding the touchy subject, instead saying "Is there some kind of porn you don't like?", lightening the mood. Are any of those options ideal? Not really. Do they allow to play Ian differently? Yes. To me, that was okay while I might have preferred a more direct answer supporting trans-women, too.

Now, I could relay the criticism to Eva and say that it's still not enough and that the players want an active option to educate Wade. One of two things can happen.
1) She might change the wording of the last option to be more defensive, but the thing is, it's harder to converge the dialogue into the same place as all other options do, because Wade might get angry and say something like "don't go all SJW on me, today I want to relax", potentially even resulting in -1 Wade point.

2) She might cut the conversation altogether again and not bother bringing it back or writing about these kinds of topics ever again because angering people is the last thing she wants to accomplish. And considering that it's exactly what she did the first time, that's the most likely outcome.

So, what should it be? Here's the moment of an absolute agency where you get to rewrite the script.

I think Eva should do as she please because it is her game and no matter what you do you will always have people to complain about your work it is human nature but anyway thanks for your concern and your work here and with Eva !

 

[thomastm]

I guess it's older save file? Earlier fate of Jessica depended on Ian's interaction with Cherry(I think so) but it changed to LenaxRobert/Mike after v5 enhanced version.

NOOOOOOO.....WHYYYYYYY, So to get good Jess you have to play as good Lena? Won't Lena lose her job if she don't have sex with Robert?

 

[MacAdGames]

WOW! What an amazing update! After 2 disappointments from A wife and a mother and Jessica O'Neil, this has been a total opposite, the most amazing update! Those two devs should learn from Eva, She gives what we want, and then finishes it on a very high note, can't wait to see what's gonna happen next, what IVY and JEREMY gonna do.

Your Updates are like Game Of Thrones, where each season is super awesome and we wanna know what's gonna happen next!

Loved this update a lotttttttt!

PS: I'd rather go with Cindy than Alison as the second girl, so tough to choose b/w Lena and Cindy!

 

[BlandChili]

Now, I could relay the criticism to Eva and say that it's still not enough and that the players want an active option to educate Wade. One of two things can happen.
1) She might change the wording of the last option to be more defensive, but the thing is, it's harder to converge the dialogue into the same place as all other options do, because Wade might get angry and say something like "don't go all SJW on me, today I want to relax", potentially even resulting in -1 Wade point.

2) She might cut the conversation altogether again and not bother bringing it back or writing about these kinds of topics ever again because angering people is the last thing she wants to accomplish. And considering that it's exactly what she did the first time, that's the most likely outcome.

So, what should it be? Here's the moment of an absolute agency where you get to rewrite the script.

To be completely honest with you, there are probably someone better suited for suggesting a specific change, I don't actually involve myself in the defense of transgender issues that often, but I will bite anyway.
Just to be clear, my main point is the availability of choice, since my perspective comes not just from my sexuality but also that I studied games design in university and am a fan of branching narratives.

First, a question: Is there a limit to the amount of responses? I recall other sections of the game where there are more than three. Maybe Evakiss just decided she only wants three in that interaction and that's fine too, it's just to know the limits present. For what it's worth I don't actually have an issue myself with the responses that are already there. I would just add one more if that option is available.

I would do something simple and just have Ian say something along the lines of "They aren't just porn," or "It isn't just about porn," in the paraphrased choice, to which Ian will add "they are (or "transgender persons are") people just like you and me," to the spoken line. To this Perry or Emma might add "That's true" and Wade will respond with something along the lines of "whatever" or "that's not the point" or "no they aren't" whatever Eva thinks represents him better. I wouldn't mind Wade getting a -1 for an interaction like that either, I think it would only be realistic. I don't think people who picks the option to defend transgender care a lot about losing approval with a person seen as a bigot after all.

I don't think he has to take it as a personal attack any more than the response Ian has for defending it as a porn category though, the conversation doesn't have to devolve into something else. If Wade just makes a non-caring response like "whatever," from there it can just connect to Perry's line about dickgirls being a cartoon porn category and the real world equivalent being transsexual.

There you go. Ian gets to speak his mind and the integrity of the exchange isn't made into a political debate. How's that?
What do you think of my suggestion lifegetsweird?

EDIT: Clarification, I wasn't aware Cindy could be present for that conversation myself either, so I am only talking about how the exchange plays out without her. Can someone tell me in a spoiler how, if at all, the conversation changes with her invovled?