Princess Groundhog

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For example, it would have been great if instead of rejecting Louise outright, that you could ask her for a chance to think the relationship over, skipping the first scene but not closing off the path completely.
Especially because of the circumstances around her relationship with Jeremy and her emotional state at the time.
Instead you have to kiss her and have sex right then, otherwise tough luck? Why?
Yeah I would've much preferred to comfort and cuddle her at that point. Maybe the sex scene can still happen as they're cuddling and you have a choice to give her a kiss (or accept her kiss), not in a romantic or sexual way but more for comfort, which then could quickly escalate, or you just leave it at that and either way this starts the relationship.
 
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BloodyMares

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For example, one of my direct complaints about chapter 7, that Holly is practically not present if you haven't pursued her with Ian or haven't encouraged poledancing could have been helped if there had been a choice between going to the club with Ivy or inviting Holly over for a hangout. Or just make inviting Holly along a choice, instead of making it dependent on pole dancing.
Don't you think that you're basically asking for less consequences for the sake of having more options? Wouldn't that make the experience more linear, and make the previous choice have less weight? If Ian ignores Holly and has poor relationship with her, she becomes a "secondary NPC" in his life, a meer work colleague that he only interacts with at work. If Lena doesn't encourage Holly to go to the gym, then she knows there's no way that she'd agree going to the club because it's out of her comfort zone, and to add to that, Holly and Ivy aren't friends in this route (they only met once). Neither is Louise is Ivy's friend, but she goes there for Lena and Jeremy. If she isn't dating Jeremy, she doesn't go, even for Lena. In these circuimstances, Lena bringing Holly to party with Ivy would be like Ian bringing Holly to Wade's birthday party on Friday. Nobody else knows Holly except Ian, so it would be a pretty overwhelming and miserable evening for her in both Lena's and Ian's route.
 

BloodyMares

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Ah, I misunderstood then.

It doesn't have all the options that would be my ideal. Regardless of what you do and your relationship with him, at the choice at the bar you have to choose to either
a) Accept his kiss
b) Kiss him of your own volition
c) Reject him outright.

There is an option missing along the lines of "hey, you seem nice pal, I ain't into kissing on on first meetings though, but I'd still like to give you a chance," which Robert could then either agree to or insist on physical intimacy right away.

Lots of people formally date before they kiss.
You misunderstood again. Pay attention to what I say please. If you have high relationship (6 or more), ROBERT KISSES YOU WITHOUT ANY CHOICE. It's a completely different outcome, and Lena can react in 2 ways:
1) Accept the kiss
2) Do exactly what you described. Tell him that the kiss was too much and end the night with him on an awkward note. In 2 days, he apologizes and asks for a second chance that Lena can accept and enable the date with him in Chapter 3. How is it different from what you're asking? You just need enough interest from Lena (high approval) to unlock this route. Otherwise, Lena isn't motivated to continue seeing Robert at all because she didn't like how the first date with him ended.
 

BlandChili

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You are picking at specifics of mere examples I'm giving to reinforce a different point to the one you think I'm making.
Don't you think that you're basically asking for less consequences for the sake of having more options? Wouldn't that make the experience more linear, and make the previous choice have less weight?
Not really, why should "does Holly do pole dancing?" be the deciding choice that means wether or not you get content with her in chapter 7? Holly tells Ian that her and Lena hung out at ate cookies, so clearly the choice doesn't impact how much Lena and Holly hangs out otherwise.
If Ian ignores Holly and has poor relationship with her, she becomes a "secondary NPC" in his life, a meer work colleague that he only interacts with at work.
Which is completely fair and understandable.
If Lena doesn't encourage Holly to go to the gym, then she knows there's no way that she'd agree going to the club because it's out of her comfort zone, and to add to that, Holly and Ivy aren't friends in this route (they only met once).
Also a fair point, therefore I think there should have been a substitute scene, even a small one, just to reinforce that Holly and Lena see each other still. All we get is a dialogue reference from Holly in the office with Ian.
It's something, it just feels empty when Lena's relationship to Holly becomes a mere reference through Ian's perspective.
Neither is Louise is Ivy's friend, but she goes there for Lena and Jeremy. If she isn't dating Jeremy, she doesn't go, even for Lena. In these circuimstances, Lena bringing Holly to party with Ivy would be like Ian bringing Holly to Wade's birthday party on Friday. Nobody else knows Holly except Ian, so it would be a pretty overwhelming and miserable evening for her in both Lena's and Ian's route.
Yeah, I agree, you aren't wrong in you analysis of the circumstances and the characters.

My point isn't "I wanted Holly to come to the club at all costs" my point is that "man, ch. 7 was sort of sparse on Holly content because of a choice about taking chances, I wish there had been something to make up the difference."
I'm just spitting out various examples of what those could have been, I know not all of them makes sense with all the details in question.
 

BlandChili

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You misunderstood again. Pay attention to what I say please. If you have high relationship (6 or more), ROBERT KISSES YOU WITHOUT ANY CHOICE. It's a completely different outcome, and Lena can react in 2 ways:
1) Accept the kiss
2) Do exactly what you described. Tell him that the kiss was too much and end the night with him on an awkward note. In 2 days, he apologizes and asks for a second chance that Lena can accept and enable the date with him in Chapter 3. How is it different from what you're asking? You just need enough interest from Lena (high approval) to unlock this route. Otherwise, Lena isn't motivated to continue seeing Robert at all because she didn't like how the first date with him ended.
No, I understood you. I'm just asking for a "Not looking for love tonight, try another day?" option in the middle of "kiss him" or "reject him," in the section I got.
Why're the options for me "physical intimacy" or "nothing at all"? If I'm in the middle of the "Lena and Robert kinda like each other" spectrum surely an option to not kiss him right away isn't unreasonable.
 
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Princess Groundhog

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Not really, why should "does Holly do pole dancing?" be the deciding choice that means wether or not you get content with her in chapter 7? Holly tells Ian that her and Lena hung out at ate cookies, so clearly the choice doesn't impact how much Lena and Holly hangs out otherwise.
I would've liked to see that scene! (And eat Holly's cookie :giggle:)
 
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BloodyMares

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No, I understood you. I'm just asking for a "Not looking for love tonight, try another day?" option in the middle of "kiss him" or "reject him," in the section I got.
Why're the options for me "physical intimacy" or "nothing at all"? If I'm in the middle of the "Lena kinda likes sim" spectrum surely an option to not kiss him right away isn't unreasonable.
Because that's not who Lena is. She's not a virgin or a teenager on her first date. She used to be pretty wild in her young days. Kiss is not a big deal for her if she's interested. If she doesn't kiss, it means she's not interested. You could compare it to a similar moment with Ian on their first date, where she can step away from the kiss, but it doesn't ruin their relationship. The difference is, Ian makes her feel completely different than Robert. She connects with him on a deeper level. Lena knows that Robert is a simpler guy. If she doesn't kiss him, it means she doesn't like him enough. They barely have any chemistry. If she kisses him, it's for selfish reasons to forget about Axel, not because she feels something special for him.
 

BlandChili

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Because that's not who Lena is. She's not a virgin or a teenager on her first date. She used to be pretty wild in her young days. Kiss is not a big deal for her if she's interested. If she doesn't kiss, it means she's not interested. You could compare it to a similar moment with Ian on their first date, where she can step away from the kiss, but it doesn't ruin their relationship. The difference is, Ian makes her feel completely different than Robert. She connects with him on a deeper level. Lena knows that Robert is a simpler guy. If she doesn't kiss him, it means she doesn't like him enough. They barely have any chemistry. If she kisses him, it's for selfish reasons to forget about Axel, not because she feels something special for him.
What does being a teenager or a virgin have to do with anything? Lena's also a character that's still working out her past relationship, "not kissing" isn't out of character for anyone in that state of mind, that's just absurd to argue. It being a "big deal" or not isn't the only rationale for a choice of the nature I'd have liked.
Maybe she just doesn't feel like kissing? That's not a big deal either.

This is a choice-based game, that's Eva's selling point, she chose to emphasise that. I'm just arguing that there are some natural options that I feel are missing here and there.

Robert has a lot of choice and variability in that scene already, it's not wrong or broken, it just doesn't have the choice that I'd have ideally liked to be there.
 
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Leonardovisk

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Sep 25, 2018
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Because that's not who Lena is. She's not a virgin or a teenager on her first date. She used to be pretty wild in her young days. Kiss is not a big deal for her if she's interested. If she doesn't kiss, it means she's not interested. You could compare it to a similar moment with Ian on their first date, where she can step away from the kiss, but it doesn't ruin their relationship. The difference is, Ian makes her feel completely different than Robert. She connects with him on a deeper level. Lena knows that Robert is a simpler guy. If she doesn't kiss him, it means she doesn't like him enough. They barely have any chemistry. If she kisses him, it's for selfish reasons to forget about Axel, not because she feels something special for him.
Funny because I had an opposite ideia about Lena. Not a virgin but...wild?

There is some line in some dialogue that support that?
 
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Idontknowme

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What does being a teenager or a virgin have to do with anything? Lena's also a character that's still working out her past relationship, "not kissing" isn't out of character for anyone in that state of mind, that's just absurd to argue. It being a "big deal" or not isn't the only rationale for a choice of the nature I'd have liked.
Maybe she just doesn't feel like kissing? That's not a big deal either.

This is a choice-based game, that's Eva's selling point, she chose to emphasise that. I'm just arguing that there are some natural options that I feel are missing here and there.

Robert has a lot of choice and variability in that scene already, it's not wrong or broken, it just doesn't have the choice that I'd have ideally liked to be there.
I feel like what BloodyMares is trying to say is that Lena is not the wait three dates to have sex kind of girl. She is not like Ashley who you can mould to fit your ideals. She has a past and tastes independent of what you as a player choose to impose on her. Lena is someone entirely comfortabele with the idea of nudity and casual sex. No amount of making choices is going to change that. That is who she is.
 

BloodyMares

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What does being a teenager or a virgin have to do with anything? Lena's also a character that's still working out her past relationship, "not kissing" isn't out of character for anyone in that state of mind, that's just absurd to argue. It being a "big deal" or not isn't the only rationale for a choice of the nature I'd have liked.
Maybe she just doesn't feel like kissing? That's not a big deal either.

This is a choice-based game, that's Eva's selling point, she chose to emphasise that. I'm just arguing that there are some natural options that I feel are missing here and there.
Eva would need a bigger budget to implement every single choice that you and I would have liked. Let's keep in mind that Chapter 2 was made in a month.

Apparently, when Lena rejected Robert's kiss, even if she didn't mind the date, she didn't like Robert's reaction that followed and wasn't comfortable with him to continue seeing him. And, mind you, in your situation, your Lena defined her opinion of Robert previously by saying "You're okay" (she doesn't even like him as a friend).
When Robert asks Lena about her opinion of him, she can say "I like you" (you didn't have that option it seems, otherwise you would've picked it for the desired outcome), "You're okay" and "I barely know you". If you choose the "I like you", then Robert feels confident enough to kiss her right away. If you choose "I barely know you", Lena can only reject him after that. If you say, "You're okay", then Lena can choose to agree with Ivy's earlier suggestion and go for the kiss herself just to forget about Axel, or she decides to reject the kiss because she doesn't feel comfortable with Robert. Again, you should've had higher approval to say "I like you". Isn't that what you're asking for with Ian's path? For relationship score to matter? In one instance, you want it, in another, you don't. :unsure:
 

BlandChili

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I feel like what BloodyMares is trying to say is that Lena is not the wait three dates to have sex kind of girl. She is not like Ashley who you can mould to fit your ideals. She has a past and tastes independent of what you as a player choose to impose on her. Lena is someone entirely comfortabele with the idea of nudity and casual sex. No amount of making choices is going to change that. That is who she is.
So? The choice I wished for does not conflict with that. Being comfortable about casual sex is not the same as wanting to bang any option that comes along or not engage with them at all.
 
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BlandChili

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Eva would need a bigger budget to implement every single choice that you and I would have liked. Let's keep in mind that Chapter 2 was made in a month.
Which is completely fine.
I'm not saying Eva should endeavour to cover all bases, just that there are some options that would have been nice, hypothetically speaking. I just refuse all these rationalisations being given for it, there is no argument that counters my wish completely, I have no illusions about the constraints around making a game of this nature.

I'm not demanding that the specific scenario I have in mind should be implemented, just that it's an element among others that can consolidate into a playthrough that feels like it contains less content. It's a natural result of games like this, I just comment here because I pity myself.
Apparently, when Lena rejected Robert's kiss, even if she didn't mind the date, she didn't like Robert's reaction that followed and wasn't comfortable with him to continue seeing him. And, mind you, in your situation, your Lena defined her opinion of Robert previously by saying "You're okay" (she doesn't even like him as a friend).
When Robert asks Lena about her opinion of him, she can say "I like you" (you didn't have that option it seems, otherwise you would've picked it for the desired outcome), "You're okay" and "I barely know you". If you choose the "I like you", then Robert feels confident enough to kiss her right away. If you choose "I barely know you", Lena can only reject him after that. If you say, "You're okay", then Lena can choose to agree with Ivy's earlier suggestion and go for the kiss herself just to forget about Axel, or she decides to reject the kiss because she doesn't feel comfortable with Robert. Again, you should've had higher approval to say "I like you". Isn't that what you're asking for with Ian's path? For relationship score to matter? In one instance, you want it, in another, you don't. :unsure:
And all the following events are completely fine as well, there is nothing wrong with it and I understand the rationale behind all of it.

I just wanted another option.
 
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manscout

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Jun 13, 2018
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I think the interactions with Robert are fine for the type of character he is, but he feels extra sucky when you consider Alison to be kind of his counterpart for Ian's side of the story (both kinda kinky and obssessed with the player's character).

I think there are two issues at hand and mixing them doesn't help the discussion.

The first is that Lena gets only Ian and Holly as choices for "nice and well-developed" relationships, while Ian gets Lena, Holly, Alison, and Cindy. And even if Ian doesn't pick one of them, they can still play interesting parts in his story, meanwhile, if refused in Lena's side of the story, Robert gets Lena fired and then dissapears from the story and Mike becomes a background character you can barely interact with. (I have hopes there will be a 2nd and hopefully more romantic entry point for a relationship with Louise, and if not then I expect lonely shut-in Louise to eventually look for some company with her other roommate, which would at least be an interesting side plot)

The second is how limited Lena's choices currently are to enter some relationships, this complaint does not really apply to Robert imo, he has some options and variance there (nowhere close to what Alison gets but still), but it is kind of an issue with Louise (until a 2nd entry point is added) and definitely an issue with Mike, specially when you compare Mike with Cindy.

Cindy and Mike are both there for the cheating and "stealing" them from someone else kink, but with Cindy, Ian needs to hangout with her multiple times, listen to her deepest feelings and desires and support her, go through a lot of back and forth teasing, only to then finally have an opportunity to act on their feelings and pursue her. Meanwhile Mike's entire character before Lena needs to make a decision is: He is a DJ, he is hot, he has a girlfriend; do you want to seduce him?

It really feels like all the nicer characters are centered around Ian's part of the story, which leaves Lena with less "nice" content, and that is made worse when the characters centered around Lena's side of the story don't seem to receive much development if you don't follow a "lusty" route (Robert dissapears, Mike can hardly be interacted with, Stan is a bit ignored if Lena scolded him and isn't making stalkfap content, Louise is a bit standoffish and participates in less events). Of course this might all be rectified in the next update if Chapter 8 has a good ammount of scenes for those characters that can happen outside of their "lusty" routes, but for now that's why Lena's route feels a bit more empty than Ian's to me.
 

Leonardovisk

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Sep 25, 2018
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I think the main route for Lena, if you dont go to Ian, is Mr. Seymour/Axel.

Some kind of distropic relationship. Looks like EvaKiss put a lot of work into that arc.

Mike, Louise, Robert...they are there just to farm points.
 

BlandChili

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Dec 15, 2020
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I think the main route for Lena, if you dont go to Ian, is Mr. Seymour/Axel.

Some kind of distropic relationship. Looks like EvaKiss put a lot of work into that arc.

Mike, Louise, Robert...they are there just to farm points.
I don't think we should see anything as "the main route" necessarily.

In my ideal playthrough Lena doesn't get involved with Axel at all. We'll see if Seymour eventually forces the issue.

Isn't Seymour just there to farm points too? You can just choose not to model for him.
 
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