VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[SerHawkes]

Man really said "bucko". That explains your action a lot considering it reveals the people you listen to.

To quote the Legend: Have a take, don't suck.

 

[Samuel Hidayat]

Ivy is one of the most consistent characters, her and Cindy are my favorite, in more ways than one. Maybe my perception is skewed since I played Lesbian Lena first and Ivy was obviously a big focus, but to me It seemed to have the message that society is wrong and that type of behavior should be lauded a bit too in your face to ignore.

If you're spending most of your time with Ivy, of course you're going to be bombarded with her lifestyle and personality. Pretty sure Lesbian Lena has Louise to play with, so her existence should've provided a balanced POV.

I am not familiar with the author's other work, so I said maybe, but it could be the case of just trope writing of the usual female MC, corruption, blackmail, sexual harassment, like almost every other female MC game in here.

The more corrupted a person is, the more they try to justify themselves. Nothing wrong with that, and it's not exclusive to Fem MC games. You should try out The Monastery to experience an extreme example of this, but from Male MC.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

To quote the Legend: Have a take, don't suck.

To quote the "Legend": 'I dreamed I saw my maternal grandmother sitting by the bank of a swimming pool, that was also a river... Her genital region was exposed, dimly; it had the appearance of a thick mat of hair. She was stroking herself, absent-mindedly. She walked over to me, with a handful of pubic hair, compacted into something resembling a large artist’s paint-brush. She pushed this at my face. I raised my arm, several times, to deflect her hand; finally, unwilling to hurt her, or interfere with her any farther, I let her have her way. She stroked my face with the brush, gently, and said, like a child, “isn’t it soft?” I looked at her ruined face and said, “yes, Grandma, it’s soft.”'

This your guy?

 

[Gicoo]

Lena feels remorse when cheating in Chapter 11 prologue, it's just not regarding to Mike specifically. In fact, the game teases that her actions would soon have consequences. There is also her refusal to get into a relationship with Ian if she fucks Jeremy. I don't have to list every single instance to prove my point, this should be enough (but it clearly isn't as you have completely ignored it).

Lay off hating on fictional women. It's not healthy for you.

Never once did I critize Lena on her behavior on the Axel/Jeremy/Ian path, this is a strawman/moving goal post technique on your behalf. She acknowledges her cheating there and her character is consistent in that regard.

My problem isn't so much "Ian and Lena were cheated on, hence they aren't allowed to cheat themselves, it would make them hypocrites", but if they do it, they need to adress these issues and admit that they have sunk to a similar level Axel/Cherry/Gillian etc. Ian admits this on the Cindy path and that path is overall decent at showing the slow decent and his hesitation/conflicted feelings, unlike Lena jumping at Mike during their first meeting. As pointed out, he doesn't do this on the Minerva path and I agree that this is a flaw and he should acknowledge it, if he's still meant to be portrayed sympathetic about his break-up with Gillian.

Lena adresses her potentially cheating on Ian on multiple paths like with Jeremy and Mike, she has the decency to get in an open relationship. Even when succumbing to Axel, she thinks about Ian with guilt.

But on the Mike path, there is no instance of her reflecting how she act like Cherry. And regardless how you play Lena, she's always furious at Axel and Cherry, even when she is on the path to be some remorseless seductress herself.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

this is a strawman/moving goal post technique on your behalf.

It's not that serious, bro.

I already told you, Lena does not react to every action the same because she lacks the empathy towards Mike's Gf as she does not know her, just how Ian shows no emathy towards his boss' husband as he does not know him.

You are expecting for every character to react the same exact way to different situations, which is laughable.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

More like you pushing your fantasy sex life into public. Good talk though.

Yeah, Ian's dad is one disturbing individual. Those benzos are doing him no favors

 

[Doppelgang]

I’m surprised at how often this discussion comes up about Lena’s hypocrisy. Both she and Ian have been cheated on and struggle to cope with it, but Lena’s hurt feelings first and foremost manifest as anger, while Ian’s similar feelings make him bummed out. So they cope with it differently (though not that differently; they can both choose to fuck more or less every person they find attractive) and justify their actions in different ways.

Yes, Lena does exactly what Axel and Cherry did to her, and it’s a shitty thing to do. But it’s also a very understandable coping mechanism (if not the healthiest). And what does a kid do if they’re bullied in school? They’ll quite likely find another kid to bully themselves, to cope with all of it and maintain a standing within some kind of real or imagined hierarchy that you don’t want to be at the bottom of. And then they find some way to justify it to themselves, because it’s a shitty thing to do. People justify things to themselves or blame others all the time when they do something that doesn’t fit with their image of themselves. And when you’re 23, like Lena, your image of yourself (and also who you actually are) is still very much being shaped.

Almost everyone close to Lena, except Ivy, expects her to act nice and dutifully and be a good girl. Lena mainly sees herself that way too, but there’s a giant gap between that and her anger at Axel and Cherry and her almost nymphomaniac side. So when she crosses the line of how she and her family, friends and colleagues expects her to act, it easily spirals out of control. I think all of this generally is very good portrayed, and easily believable, though I admit the story would be better of if Lena sometimes reflected more on her own hypocrisy.

This whole idea that Lena can do so much more than Ian without any consequences, is also very exaggerated. One thing I’ll concede, is that Lena probably will have a path where she can make Ian forgive her for much more than she’ll herself forgive him for; based on the new cuck variable, how Lena could get an extra thrill from cheating, and how Ian could act more resigned (while Lena gets angry) about being treated badly. So yes, we’ll quite likely get a path where Lena can do more or less what she wants and get away with it, while Ian has nowhere near the same freedom. And then this discussion will come back, with increased intensity.

But Lena also has a submissive side, and Ian has a chad variable that is starting to affect the story more, so not even that imbalance seems a given. Another aspect is how the two of them end up if they’re betrayed by the other. Ian still has a big group of friends, a lot of obvious love interests and a father who supports him financially. Lena has her two roommates, who both are slightly crazy; Ivy, who cares about her but definitely also has some fishy stuff going on; a family she has to support instead of get support from; and a crowd of sleazy guys who circle around her without being interested in much more than her body.

Ian is worse off than Lena in some ways, other times it’s different. In the Patreon Q&A’s Eva has written about how she sees the two paths, and why they’re not supposed to be parallel/identical. I don’t see the reason why they should be (except that it might feel unfair if you’re playing mainly for one of the protagonists), and either way it would be an unconstructive limitation to the story if Eva constantly had to make sure to balance the two stories out.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

I’m surprised at how often this discussion comes up about Lena’s hypocrisy. Both she and Ian have been cheated on and struggle to cope with it, but Lena’s hurt feelings first and foremost manifest as anger, while Ian’s similar feelings make him bummed out. So they cope with it differently (though not that differently; they can both choose to fuck more or less every person they find attractive) and justify their actions in different ways.

Yes, Lena does exactly what Axel and Cherry did to her, and it’s a shitty thing to do. But it’s also a very understandable coping mechanism (if not the healthiest). And what does a kid do if they’re bullied in school? They’ll quite likely find another kid to bully themselves, to cope with all of it and maintain a standing within some kind of real or imagined hierarchy that you don’t want to be at the bottom of. And then they find some way to justify it to themselves, because it’s a shitty thing to do. People justify things to themselves or blame others all the time when they do something that doesn’t fit with their image of themselves. And when you’re 23, like Lena, your image of yourself (and also who you actually are) is still very much being shaped.

Almost everyone close to Lena, except Ivy, expects her to act nice and dutifully and be a good girl. Lena mainly sees herself that way too, but there’s a giant gap between that and her anger at Axel and Cherry and her almost nymphomaniac side. So when she crosses the line of how she and her family, friends and colleagues expects her to act, it easily spirals out of control. I think all of this generally is very good portrayed, and easily believable, though I admit the story would be better of if Lena sometimes reflected more on her own hypocrisy.

This whole idea that Lena can do so much more than Ian without any consequences, is also very exaggerated. One thing I’ll concede, is that Lena probably will have a path where she can make Ian forgive her for much more than she’ll herself forgive him for; based on the new cuck variable, how Lena could get an extra thrill from cheating, and how Ian could act more resigned (while Lena gets angry) about being treated badly. So yes, we’ll quite likely get a path where Lena can do more or less what she wants and get away with it, while Ian has nowhere near the same freedom. And then this discussion will come back, with increased intensity.

But Lena also has a submissive side, and Ian has a chad variable that is starting to affect the story more, so not even that imbalance seems a given. Another aspect is how the two of them end up if they’re betrayed by the other. Ian still has a big group of friends, a lot of obvious love interests and a father who supports him financially. Lena has her two roommates, who both are slightly crazy; Ivy, who cares about her but definitely also has some fishy stuff going on; a family she has to support instead of get support from; and a crowd of sleazy guys who circle around her without being interested in much more than her body.

Ian is worse off than Lena in some ways, other times it’s different. In the Patreon Q&A’s Eva has written about how she sees the two paths, and why they’re not supposed to be parallel/identical. I don’t see the reason why they should be (except that it might feel unfair if you’re playing mainly for one of the protagonists), and either way it would be an unconstructive limitation to the story if Eva constantly had to make sure to balance the two stories out.

The hate for Lena is immediately understood if you understand what kind of individuals constantly complain about it. Even if the game gives you tons of option what you want your characters to do and say, they still complain about it being an option. This shows an incredibly insecurity, in some cases probably (but lets be real, probably not) caused by their previous bad experiences with partners.

That coupled with the terms and words used, like "bucko" and "females', and you can immediately tell where this obsession comes from.

 

[Xupuzulla]

I think Ian going "oh no!i fucked my friend girlfriend!im a bad person!" for two seconds doenst makes him a better person than Lena but thats just me...

 

[fatpussy123]

The cheating receipts

Ian: Can make Cindy cheat on Wade or make Cindy his gf through first cheating. Can cheat on Lena. Can make Minerva cheat. Can arguably turn a blind eye to Jeremy's cheating.

Lena: Can make Mike cheat. Can keep Jeremy cheating a secrets and can make him cheat with her. Can cheat on Ian. Will stop having sex with Ian if he also sleeps with Holly despite no relationship.

Clearly both people are bad people if played in that manner if the player plays them as such.

Holly never cheats. Best girl.

Alison never cheats, but will very easily rebound to Jeremy if Ian doesn't give attention.

Ivy (and Jeremy) conceals Ian and Cindy cheating. Ivy also seems buddy buddy with the person who cheated on her best friend.

Louise can cheat on Jeremy with Lena if Lena refuses Jeremy and Ivy blows Jeremy at the house party.

Cindy cheats if the player influences her to do so and doesn't have the excuse of being directly controlled by the player, only indirectly controlled.

Jeremy tries and sometimes succeed on cheating on Louise and argues that he didn't think they were dating.

Wade gets cheated on. lol.

Minerva seeks out the player to cheat, even though the player doesn't make any advances to her, so she's worse than the previous characters.

Gillian and Axel are cheaters in every playthrough.

 

[PilotLara]

Peeking in the code, it seems that if you side with Stan in this discussion i.e. pay new rent in full, afterwards Lena will go to Louise and potentially have sex with her even if Louise was rejected:

    ## end discussion (sided w/stan)
    else:
        if lena_reject_louise:
            "It seemed Louise couldn't help but create drama out of everything... I was starting to get tired of it."
        # end day
        if ian_lena_dating and v10_lena_mad != "stalkfap" and v10_lena_mad != "sex":
# ...
            jump v10lenasaturday
        # go to work
        else:
#...
            jump v10lenafridaywork

Given the comments and comparing it with the flow in the other branch, the one where Lena sides with Louise, i'd guess this is a bug and unintended behavior.
PilotLara perhaps it's worth checking (if it wasn't already fixed in 10.4) -- the second if in the quoted bit should probably be elif so that the sex scene doesn't trigger if Lena has rejected/dumped Louise previously?

Thank you as always, ffive! Yes, I do believe this is wrong, but elif wouldn't be a nice fix here as it wouldn't really respect the flow of the scene. I think adding and lena_reject_louise = False to the line would be better. This way you get the else part as well and a nice closing to the scene.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

I think Ian going "oh no!i fucked my friend girlfriend!im a bad person!" for two seconds doenst makes him a better person than Lena but thats just me...

Not to mention, having a remorse after you cheated (and continue to cheat) is literally meaningless.

 

[NebulousShooter]

Segue, what kinda degenerate picks the the bowtie piercing? Show your faces, I wanna see you!

 

[ffive]

Holly never cheats. Best girl.

What happens at book signing conventions stays at book signing conventions.

 

[Mammal186]

Look. I get having a discussion about the finer points of Character Development. All in good fun.

I think the disconnect comes when people denigrate the game for being exactly what it is. Character Driven Porn. Or more accurately, Porn that is Character Driven. In this frame, the characters acting like sluts are perfectly in character and working as intended. People who like the game exactly how it is cannot relate to the people attempting to make into a Emily Bronte novel.

Additionally people tend to critique hyperbolically in this thread in order to try to push their point, this also is hard to relate to by people who try to understand a point being made but cant get past the emoting.

Many of us really like the game as it is. We like our fictional porn sluts to be, well, slutty. We aren't looking for Lena to be Anna Karenina. So the failure to relate to the heated debate regarding inner motives of the dramatis persona comes from a very different perspective of the medium.

But it is also accurate to say that failure to relate or understand a debate doesn't mean we should chime in or try to shit on the conversation people are enjoying..

 

[Alphaeboy]

Look. I get having a discussion about the finer points of Character Development. All in good fun.

I think the disconnect comes when people denigrate the game for being exactly what it is. Character Driven Porn. Or more accurately, Porn that is Character Driven. In this frame, the characters acting like sluts are perfectly in character and working as intended. People who like the game exactly how it is cannot relate to the people attempting to make into a Emily Bronte novel.

Additionally people tend to critique hyperbolically in this thread in order to try to push their point, this also is hard to relate to by people who try to understand a point being made but cant get past the emoting.

Many of us really like the game as it is. We like our fictional porn sluts to be, well, slutty. We aren't looking for Lena to be Anna Karenina. So the failure to relate to the heated debate regarding inner motives of the dramatis persona comes from a very different perspective of the medium.

But it is also accurate to say that failure to relate or understand a debate doesn't mean we should chime in or try to shit on the conversation people are enjoying..

Tbh: I played this first before I played Good Girl Gone Bad.

I enjoyed Good Girl Gone Bad was more about the characters than sex. I like how it shows a story of a girl who is young but also easy to mold into something and heck how even she has affected other people.

I also loved how the game has different varieties and how different characters react to Ashley's personality based on your choices. I feel like Thug Life/ Bad Girl Ashley was honestly my route to play as. I also like how you can be Sweet Girl Ashley but still Freaky as well. That's how I played as her when I romancing the Buff Actor.

I like this game but I rather play it when it near the end and plus when the mods are as well due to the amount of choices.

 

[mannice431]

Anyone know the ETA for the next part?

 

[SerHawkes]

Anyone know the ETA for the next part?

Probably some time in May for the Alpha.

 

[camube]

Can I ask for recommendations of anything else that is renpy that is similar to ORS and GGGB where the game has many branching paths like evakiss's games?

That's the 1 aspect I find to be engaging and unique about ORS. That our choices matters and affects what kind of path we get to see.

 

[seaoflove]

The cheating receipts

Ian: Can make Cindy cheat on Wade or make Cindy his gf through first cheating. Can cheat on Lena. Can make Minerva cheat. Can arguably turn a blind eye to Jeremy's cheating.

Lena: Can make Mike cheat. Can keep Jeremy cheating a secrets and can make him cheat with her. Can cheat on Ian. Will stop having sex with Ian if he also sleeps with Holly despite no relationship.

Clearly both people are bad people if played in that manner if the player plays them as such.

Holly never cheats. Best girl.

Alison never cheats, but will very easily rebound to Jeremy if Ian doesn't give attention.

Ivy (and Jeremy) conceals Ian and Cindy cheating. Ivy also seems buddy buddy with the person who cheated on her best friend.

Louise can cheat on Jeremy with Lena if Lena refuses Jeremy and Ivy blows Jeremy at the house party.

Cindy cheats if the player influences her to do so and doesn't have the excuse of being directly controlled by the player, only indirectly controlled.

Jeremy tries and sometimes succeed on cheating on Louise and argues that he didn't think they were dating.

Wade gets cheated on. lol.

Minerva seeks out the player to cheat, even though the player doesn't make any advances to her, so she's worse than the previous characters.

Gillian and Axel are cheaters in every playthrough.

You are correct on a lot of that, but I disagree on some things.

I don't see Louise & Lena hooking up as Louise cheating on Jeremy. Jeremy just got his dick sucked by Ivy & those two break up that night / the following morning or very soon after. It was Jeremy accepting an Ivy BJ that ended that relationship. Also, Jeremy is always insisting that Louise is his "Friend" not his "Girlfriend" so he wasn't taking what they were doing as seriously as Louise was. I would call that "On the rebound", and not "Cheating".

Minverva isn't totally evil. She is just sexually frustrated and neglected at home. She is missing being a pretty young woman like Holly... She is like a Milf version of Holly that is several years older that wound up with a guy like Wade that doesn't pay her any attention. She looks at Holly as a younger version of herself / a daughter figure. Holly still has her youth and beauty and purity... Minerva has grown jaded with time, and has lost that sweet innocence that Holly seems to radiate with every word. Minerva isn't entirely selfish either. I believe she would take a bullet for Holly literally, she loves that girl. Loves her so much she is willing to pass up the best fuck of her life if you are dating Holly, and having things end with Ian...

I hope there is a threesome with Ian / Minerva / Holly as an option. I bet Minvera would eat that pussy with more love than Lena & Ivy combined. Be hot if Holly called her "Mommy."