VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[PilotLara]

True, but i doubt she's viewing it as the same thing as what happened with Gillian, due to the usual "it doesn't count if it's with a girl" mindset in the game. Holly might also be reluctant to reveal it precisely to avoid bringing bad news to Ian -- as in, she knows he'd potentially be hurt by it, so she'd be hoping it's not something serious and it'll resolve itself.

On separate note

I think this might be a bug/oversight in how the branches are considered in that scene. PilotLara if you'd like to look at it:

    # lena + ian
    elif ian_lena_dating and lena_go_holly > 3:
//...
        jump v11hollykisseslena

This check/jump is done very early in the song writing scene, and it effectively skips over all the branches where Holly had possibly sex with Lena, either in ch.8 or just a moment ago in the showers in Ch.11. As a result, Holly who kisses Lena freaks out over affecting Lena/Ian relationship even if Holly and Lena had sex not long before, which is kind of silly. Perhaps it might work better to move the # lena + ian check down, so it's before

    # just friends
    else:
        l "I can't think of a better person to share this with."

but after the # holly lena dating and # holly ivy branches?

There's also a question whether Lena who is in close relationship with Ian would be so quick to join a threesome involving Holly --which, if am not mistaken, can be achieved simply by having Ivy sleep with Holly in Ch.8 (v8_holly_sex == "ivy") and then by having Ivy sleep with Lena in Ch.10 (v10_ivy_sex > 0)-- considering how much Lena otherwise hesitates about as much as kissing Holly. Currently Lena who's slept with Ivy in Ch.10 (v10_ivy_sex == 3) can only back out of the threesome in Ch.11 if she has will point to spend. And if she does participate in the threesome, then she has no reflection afterwards on how that shower sex might've affected dynamics between Lena, Ian and Holly.

Thanks for the mention, however I am going to transfer this to BM as the complex relationship branches are his expertise. We'll take a look.

 

[ffive]

The thing that bothers me most about Jeremy's characterization is that even when he knows Ian has serious feelings for Lena, he only puts up minimal resistance before getting a bj from Lena.

Jeremy puts up resistance as long as the player doesn't choose to override it. It's "minimal" for the sake of not dragging out inevitable conclusion to five pages of back and forth that could just have as many people complain they want to get to the blowjob already.

The most you can do is just be in disapproval in the guy and thats it. No matter what your forced into being friends with the guy you may or may not want to be associated with.

I'd argue if Ian consistently disapproves of Jeremy's actions, to the point their relationship score drops in the red, then they're more of gym buddies/rivals and "former friends". Ian can talk some brutal shit about Jeremy to Ivy behind his back if their relationship score is middling or lower, which isn't really what a friend would do.

 

[SerHawkes]

I'd argue if Ian consistently disapproves of Jeremy's actions, to the point their relationship score drops in the red, then they're more of gym buddies/rivals and "former friends". Ian can talk some brutal shit about Jeremy to Ivy behind his back if their relationship score is middling or lower, which isn't really what a friend would do.

Even if that is the case, your still forced to be buddy buddy with the guy regardless. Sure it's 'part of the story' but still.

Great example is the 3rd bar scene remake. Did I REALLY want to go hand out with him just to talk about girls and get drinks and not get the chance to hit on Ivy thanks to desperation? Specially when I was already on the path on disapproving on him? No. It really should have been an option. Go to the bar by your lonesome or if you want with Jeremy.

 

[fatpussy123]

Even if that is the case, your still forced to be buddy buddy with the guy regardless. Sure it's 'part of the story' but still.

Great example is the 3rd bar scene remake. Did I REALLY want to go hand out with him just to talk about girls and get drinks and not get the chance to hit on Ivy thanks to desperation? Specially when I was already on the path on disapproving on him? No. It really should have been an option. Go to the bar by your lonesome or if you want with Jeremy.

If you're lucky the last interaction with the two of them can torpedo your relationship with him permanently. You call him a snake and then tell Ivy he's an asshole. Then maybe in chapter 12 you'll be able to fully cut him off.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

The thing that bothers me most about Jeremy's characterization is that even when he knows Ian has serious feelings for Lena, he only puts up minimal resistance before getting a bj from Lena. Maybe you can argue extenuating circunstances like having some drinks, the atmosphere and a hot girl wanting to suck your dick, he's only human after all. But not telling Ian that the girl he's falling for just did that goes totally against the bro code and basic decent male friendship.

Also, not telling Ian about his ex's return in a town where it seems impossible not to encounter everybody at some point it's not cool. You could justify sparing Ian's feelings if they lived somewhere like New York city not in a place where Ian encountering Gillian it's just a matter of time. Talking about Lena when you meet Alison and Cherry it's also not cool, specially when he doesn't like if you talked about Louise before his arrival.

Jeremy is no friend of Ian. He is just a player wannabe douchebag. I prefer Axel over him, at least Axel has something to back it up what he is.

If you're lucky the last interaction with the two of them can torpedo your relationship with him permanently. You call him a snake and then tell Ivy he's an asshole. Then maybe in chapter 12 you'll be able to fully cut him off.

I hope so.

 

[| Vee |]

Jeremy is no friend of Ian. He is just a player wannabe douchebag. I prefer Axel over him, at least Axel has something to back it up what he is.

Agreed!

If you're lucky the last interaction with the two of them can torpedo your relationship with him permanently. You call him a snake and then tell Ivy he's an asshole. Then maybe in chapter 12 you'll be able to fully cut him off.

Yes our relationship with him drops to 2 if you are constantly disapproving whatever shit Jeremy is trying to feed Ian. But I don't think we can get rid of him this easily. Wade considers Jeremy a friend but Perry prefers not to involve too much with Jeremy(iirc). Jeremy is also our GYM BUDDY and participating in the same tournament. Our interactions with Jeremy may become less but he is stuck in our throat as Stan and Louise in Lena's. He is completing that role of Louise and Stan for Ian in some sense. So yeah, we may get less interactions but we can't cut him off completely. Plus he is in Blazer's too so, this too add something in all this. Why is he not doing role of Robert for Ian than we could've avoided him.

 

[zoomzoomzoom]

Jeremy is no friend of Ian. He is just a player wannabe douchebag. I prefer Axel over him, at least Axel has something to back it up what he is.

I'll also bet that Axel can at least be on par with Ian when it comes to endurance. Jeremy is lowkey a premature ejaculator.

 

[Hahn1900]

Jeremy is no friend of Ian. He is just a player wannabe douchebag. I prefer Axel over him, at least Axel has something to back it up what he is.


I hope so.

Yeah... its something that bothers me the most in our red string.

There are so many different branches and decisions. For most girls to "Ian" or guys for Lena there is the option to pursue them or not, if not... you dont have to deal that much anymore with them, only by "chance". But Jeremy? He is a douche through and through no matter what. Never ever would i consider a guy like him "friend" and i wouldnt even waste a single second of my life with somebody like him. But ditching Love-Interests is a option, ditching him not? WHY? I dont get that... and i cant think of a single reason why he could be important for "story reasons" so far he didnt play a role in any important plot... every single time he is in a scene its all about his dick going somewhere.

Its not the only game/AVN around here with that problem... there are so many really BAD Guyfriends in the games, and you cant get rid of them, and i cant think of any game so far where this particual "guyfriend" has a signifikant role in the plots. Most of the time they are only annoying or just assholes.

There are only a few exceptions to that, like being a dik oder leap of faith... where the guyfirend is genuinely liekable and overall a really "good guy" and a good friend too...

Ian doesnt have those really good guy-friends i have to say... which is kinda sad... his best supportive friends are holly, Emma and lena... no matter which path you choose.

Wade is not a "bad guy" but he slacks around and is always complaining without getting his ass in gear. I cant stand those people.

Perry is always moody, you have to constantly be on his side or he bitches around. Friendship is a give and take, and its not enough to give a friend a "cheap room" which is practically the only thing Perry is throwing into this "friendship" other than that its goes always like that with him "meh meh i dont want that" ugh.

Axel is no friend, he is rival... not arguing about that. He will not getting anywhere with Lena in any of my playthroughs, never ever. Even if Ian will not pursue Lena... Axel can marry his hand.

So far, maybe the only "good" guy for Ian seems to be his jiu jitsu training guy in the gym, which name i dont remember right now. But... there are no scenes withhim other than those gym scenes.

But its not an option to spend "less time" with those "friends". No Ian is stuck with them... And i dont get that.

Lenas Side of the game is better in this regard. But again, she is pretty much stuck with Ivy. Ivy is a very ambivalent character, overall i like her, but in some playthroughs you can make her real bitch to lena and everybody else... but even so, Lena will be stuck with her. Just the same as Ian is stuck with Jeremy... and i just dont get why.

There are so many branches already... why not give us the option to stick some boot where the sun dont shine for Jermey and some others too?

 

[ffive]

There are so many branches already... why not give us the option to stick some boot where the sun dont shine for Jermey and some others too?

Because significant part of the game narrative comes from interactions with these people. So if that's optionally removed then the developer has to produce extra ways to deliver the content to work around this, or face complaints the game is lacking content (because players chose to avoid interacting with people who'd provide it. And no, they won't care it's their own decision and will complain just the same)

 

[SerHawkes]

Because significant part of the game narrative comes from interactions with these people. So if that's optionally removed then the developer has to produce extra ways to deliver the content to work around this, or face complaints the game is lacking content (because players chose to avoid interacting with people who'd provide it. And no, they won't care it's their own decision and will complain just the same)

The game is lacking content though. Mainly Ian and Ivy together, at dinner, hooked up with Lena and Holly who are also on a date, watching Ian and Ivy eat dinner, while Ivy's flustered as hell.

Backing on topic, some interaction with some people should be optional and not shoehorned. Like in GGGB, you could be a bit of a bitch to Jessica early on and instead of Jessica hooking you up with your first tattoo it could be your bestie instead, or not even either of them if memory serves.

Point being it should be optional to kick some of our so called friends to the curb and have them be optional in terms of interactions. Like I didn't want to go to the bar with Jeremy at all, considering with Axel I could handle just fine back in rework 2. Now, we're forced into having to go along and listen to Jeremy brag about his sex life and him questioning ours and yadda yadda yadda, hear him cringe worthy flirt with Ivy, even after the dumbass got caught.

 

[Turret]

Its not the only game/AVN around here with that problem... there are so many really BAD Guyfriends in the games, and you cant get rid of them, and i cant think of any game so far where this particual "guyfriend" has a signifikant role in the plots. Most of the time they are only annoying or just assholes.

Just of the cuff, "Acting Lessons", Where it all began", Pale Carnations", "Summer´s gone", "Wifey´s Dilemma revisited", "Leap of Faith" are a couple games where there are signifcant good friends (or can become good friends during play) for the MC in game.

 

[dolfe67]

Because significant part of the game narrative comes from interactions with these people. So if that's optionally removed then the developer has to produce extra ways to deliver the content to work around this, or face complaints the game is lacking content (because players chose to avoid interacting with people who'd provide it. And no, they won't care it's their own decision and will complain just the same)

We can't make Ian like Stan the man, ditching everyone and living a recluse life

 

[SerHawkes]

We can't make Ian like Stan the man, ditching everyone and living a recluse life

Jokes on you with Ian swimming in pussy even if he were to ditch Jeremy and Perry and Wade.

Stans got his hand and vibrating dildo so...

 

[ffive]

Stans got his hand and vibrating dildo so...

That sounds like a threesome every day of the week for Stan. Ian has nothing on him

 

[lipe2410]

We should have a choice in the prologue to Ian just ignore Lena and keep in his way. And then a black with The End after that. Since have every possible option is so important, we should have a option to not play the rest of story

 

[| Vee |]

The game is lacking content though. Mainly Ian and Ivy together, at dinner, hooked up with Lena and Holly who are also on a date, watching Ian and Ivy eat dinner, while Ivy's flustered as hell.

This made me imagine a scenario:
Ivy and Ian( who is dating/couple with Lena) on a date behind Lena back in some restaurant and in that same restaurant Lena is on date with Holly.
Ian and Ivy playing bang bang in WC in one stall while Lena and Holly in the very next stall. Four of them hear each other's moaning, shrieks of pleasure. After finishing their business four of them came out of stall at the same time discovering this whole Quadruple.

 

[SerHawkes]

That sounds like a threesome every day of the week for Stan. Ian has nothing on him

Fair but...

Tits and ass and proper lewds.

 

[Gicoo]

We should have a choice in the prologue to Ian just ignore Lena and keep in his way. And then a black with The End after that. Since have every possible option is so important, we should have a option to not play the rest of story

Ian and Lena have enough people in their repective social circle that the game could still work showing their respectives journeys.

Ian hangs out with Perry, Wade, Emma, Alison, works with Holly and Minerva.

Lena lives with Louise and Stan, works with Robert, later Seymour, Ivy, Mike and Billy.

So the connection would be Seymour as the potential boss of both of them, Cindy/Cherry-Axel, Jeremy-Louise/Ivy and possibly Gillian-Mike. And of course Holly as the designated third part of the trinity.

 

[SerHawkes]

This made me imagine a scenario:
Ivy and Ian( who is dating/couple with Lena) on a date behind Lena back in some restaurant and in that same restaurant Lena is on date with Holly.
Ian and Ivy playing bang bang in WC in one stall while Lena and Holly in the very next stall. Four of them hear each other's moaning, shrieks of pleasure. After finishing their business four of them came out of stall at the same time discovering this whole Quadruple.

I can see it. Similarly I can imagine Holly and Lena dating while Ian and Ivy are a thing and Holly kinda has some unrequited feelings for Ian and Lena teasingly asks if she had to the chance to sleep with Ian and her would she. Holly naturally would blush and be flustered and admit she wouldn't mind the idea. Days later Lena playfully mentions what Holly said to Ivy, as a joke of course, which cause Ivy to consider it.

Exchange-Lena, Holly, Ivy, Ian chilling at the park.
Ivy-"So Holly... Wanna bang Ian?"
Holly-"Eh?! I-I mean I couldn't do that to you! I'm happily with Lena!"
Ivy-"Don't deny it girl. I know Lena has been interested in Ian for quite a while. Haven't you Lena?"
Lena, slightly blushing-"I won't deny I'm not curious..."
Ivy, looking over at Ian-"Hey loverboy. You down to fucking my two best girlfriends?"
Holly, turning bright red-"D-d-do we hav-"
Ivy-"Shush you! Let Mommy Ivy work here."
Ian-"Don't know... You in this aswell Sugar Tits?"
Lena, Holly-"Sugar Tits?!"
Ivy, cheshire grinning-"Naturally."

 

[JoeSte91]

Backing on topic, some interaction with some people should be optional and not shoehorned. Like in GGGB, you could be a bit of a bitch to Jessica early on and instead of Jessica hooking you up with your first tattoo it could be your bestie instead, or not even either of them if memory serves.

That does happen, there are some scenes where if Ian and Lena don't meet up, Ivy meet up with her instead.

I feel like the jeremy issue isn't a problem with the game content though and a problem with the pre-existing relationship. In GGGB, Jessica wasn't your friend, so it was entirely the players choice to get close to them or not. Conversely, Jeremy is already a friend of Ian's, and this behavior doesn't seem recent. Which means you can be a jerk to him and try and push him away, but you're working against years of an existing bond, and acceptance of his personality.

To achieve the result you want, Eva would have to re-write Jeremy to be a stranger to the group that the player has the choice to befriend or reject.