VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[ffive]

We were initially talking about Chapter 1, and you claimed that Ivy was manipulating Lena into getting together with Axel.

I said people have speculated about such thing. They have done this based on Ivy's evident ability to be manipulative and other potential factors. You are right this is merely a speculation, but it is a possibility based on what the game shows us about the character. And because of this, it is perfectly reasonable to take Ivy's statements with a pinch of salt, as opposed to treating them like the author's own position.

Even disregarding all that, Ivy can simply be wrong in her assessment of Lena's feelings. Just like Lena's mother is wrong and not a "word of god" message from EK, when it comes to Axel's nature.

tl;dr: every game character can be confused and say things which aren't true. Not only Lena, who you claim doesn't know her own opinion of Axel, while Ivy is at the same time supposed to perceive it perfectly and without fail.

But she does nothing of the sort. Is Ivy manipulative, of course she is. But her actions in Chapter 1 do not demonstrate that.

It doesn't matter that Ivy doesn't immediately appear manipulative. Learning later she is capable of such thing allows the player to re-evaluate things she's said previously.

 

[Gicoo]

The original comment, that I was replying to, was that Lena's starting position was her fixed hatred for Axel. But this dialogue between her and Ivy, clearly shows that Lena's starting position with Axel is much more ambivalent.

Christ, I offhandly said in a post (thats presently deleted, so fruitful discussion we have here) that Lena doesn't has the option to fuck Axel in chapter 1 because she hates him and you go on a tantrum on that single line for days. Yeah, you can hate someone and love them later. You can hate and love someone at the same time. And if we take a deep dive in Lenas emotional standing, then its a bit more complex than hate. I wasn't going for that, just a simple comparison for why Ian isn't in love with Holly without going through a longer process and a crucial event like the festival first, just how Lena can only reignite her feelings if she responds to Axel advances throughout the game positively.

1. Lena hating Axel isn't a wrong claim. 2. Lena hating Axel, but xxx... would be more correct, but still not invalidate the first claim.

 

[lucadiadis]

Finished now playing this for the first time, gotta say its one of the best games on this site, definitely top 10. For Lena went lesbian stuff, for Ian went with Holly on one route and Cindy/Minerva the other. Holly is too damn fucking cute but i was kinda disappointed Ian didnt told her yet that he loves her or at least to be his gf, after what happened at the beachhouse, it was a perfect opportunity.
edit forgot to say, bummed no trans char, would have been perfect on the lena side.

Top 10 ? Top 1 more like.

 

[Blurpee69]

I said Ivy is manipulative (in general, as evidenced by her handling of the drinking game where she can potentially trick Louise into consenting to Lena sucking off Jeremy even though he's Louise's boyfriend) and that people have speculated Ivy is actively trying to orchestrate Lena getting back to Axel, which is something that took place in this very thread.

I don't hate the direction Ivy has taken, but I do miss the old Ivy to a degree. The Ivy that had a soft spot for Perry, because of his stutter, the Ivy that found Wade attractive, before she learned of his ties to Cindy. Back when she wasn't necessarily manipulative, but was genuinely trying to help Lena and Holly out, even if we as the players knew most of Ivy's suggestions aren't for the best they were at least coming from a place of good intent. To some degree how Ivy treats Lena and Holly could still be viewed through that lens, but the more recent chapters do bring that sentiment under more scrutiny.

 

[ffive]

To some degree how Ivy treats Lena and Holly could still be viewed through that lens, but the more recent chapters do bring that sentiment under more scrutiny.

Yeah, i believe Ivy is still mostly acting with some mix of carefree attitude and Lena's good interest on mind, but i also wonder if there's maybe a bias at work here, where she believes "the best" for Lena is to be with Ivy, and she works to such effect. Like, someone joked a while ago that Ivy is dragging all Lena's partners down so she seems like the best option... and maybe that's not entirely just a joke after all.

 

[Vengeance_11]

someone joked a while ago that Ivy is dragging all Lena's partners down so she seems like the best option

By design, Lena's choice in partners is pretty poor by itself, but Ivy does seem to be protective of Lena by telling her to avoid relationships and encouraging her to just hook up with people instead. She's impressed when Lena keeps Robert and/or Ian at arms length as fuck buddies, but seems somewhat distrustful of her developing feelings for Ian. Whether this is due to genuine concern for Lena's wellbeing or her own selfish desires is yet to be seen.

 

[Ray_D]

Also you can tell Evakiss is a woman because he wants to add a bunch of minigames.
Bro,we play your game for the sexy images,the FUCK you mean minigames?
Im joking btw,i know some of you like the minigames,leave me alone

I mean, most of the mini-games give you the option to skip them. And the MMA tournament doesn't count as a mini-game, since it's based on making stat-driven decisions.

 

[ffive]

And the MMA tournament doesn't count as a mini-game, since it's based on making stat-driven decisions.

I know people are in largely for the smut (and plot) but i was genuinely impressed how elaborate the MMA game was (if you look under the hood) There's some actual RPGs out there with less developed combat mechanics.

 

[Ray_D]

I know people are in largely for the smut (and plot) but i was genuinely impressed how elaborate the MMA game was (if you look under the hood) There's some actual RPGs out there with less developed combat mechanics.

I am surprised that more AVN developers do not use statistics to block certain interactions or give other types of interactions.

 

[markel1000]

I know people are in largely for the smut (and plot) but i was genuinely impressed how elaborate the MMA game was (if you look under the hood) There's some actual RPGs out there with less developed combat mechanics.

Yeah the mma tournament is the thing im most excited for plus it would be a nice backup plan if Seymour screws the book contest.

 

[tykyfr10]

Walktrough for Jessica? Please, Thanks

 

[noturiah]

In my

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I discussed the challenge of writing in-between and casual scenes. You mentioned you generally enjoy them, but I'd love to know: what kind of scenes and interactions would you like to see between the group during their vacation? I need some inspiration for ideas, and even if I can't implement them, they might spark some evocative concepts.
...
What's your opinion on mini-games, do you think they add to the experience or detract from it? For now, I don't think I'll be adding more, but it would be cool to add the Pictionary one someday...

I've been behind on this update, and skimmed most of the many pages here of comments. Somewhere along the way someone (sorry, I forget who) mentioned that it was frustrating to them that there was a real opportunity in this update to get some enjoyable casual chat between characters at the beach house. Instead all we got was them talking about relationships and it didn't feel, to the person writing the comment, as real as they thought old friends going on vacation would be. I didn't really see anyone respond to that, but Eva brings up the question in her latest update post, and I've been thinking about it too.

I'd both agree and disagree with the previous comment by a forum member. Agree in that old friends at the beach would be a little more loose that what we have, maybe a prank or two (the splashing and throwing mud in the ocean felt legit to me), maybe a deep cut from their shared history in the band they formed, etc. I'm still waiting for some conversation between Ian and Perry about how they both are trying to deal with being a disappointment - perhaps unfairly - to their fathers, and this chapter would have been a good time for that, while staying in Perry's dad's beach house.

That said, I'd disagree that what Eva wrote was inauthentic, or just throwaway chatter. If you're trying to help Perry get with Emma even though he insists on being an ass to her, getting their thoughts on relationships is new and interesting info. And even if you're not trying to get them together, learning about Perry having a fling with a groupie once upon a time is hilarious. And learning that Emma shies away from standard monogamous relationships because she's seen so many fail, including her adopted parents' marriage, is fascinating - especially if your Ian is considering either a casual or committed relationship with her. There's been a bunch of talk here about the variation in Lena's backstory based on player choices, and that's I think a significant development too. Lastly I thought it was brilliant to have Emma bring her weird drug again (very "old friends on vacation" indeed!), and then have Wade's story, of all people, get some progress because of it. And having his attitude towards continuing to try to get back together with Cindy based on Ian's support or not is smart too.

P.S. - Is anyone else just waiting for the dog to steal and bury someone's bikini? Just me?

Eva also asks about minigames, and I'll agree with BlandChili that most of the time it's more of a distraction to have them. In some circumstances they do help with money (the pool game early on) or character affection (the Cards Against Humanity game) etc. but overall I kind of shrug at them. The fake "game crash" during Ian's drug trip was funny, but also annoying. BC says most of us probably pushed through the MMA event because it was there, not because most of us wanted it or enjoyed it, and I'd agree, though I do appreciate the small subset of folks here who got into it, and liked how realistic it was in terms of MMA, or who put together intricate strategies they shared with us for beating it.

Reading Eva's post, I was glad a Pictionary minigame didn't make it into the beach house (though I do think it's also totally a classic "old friends on vacation" thing, so maybe the unknown commenter would have liked it). The pole dancing minigame would have been interesting in certain contexts, like Ivy challenging Lena (or Holly!) to "follow my moves, if you can" or something similar. But let's be honest - the real reason why I'd like it is to get images of any or all of the three of them pole dancing, of course only if you play the minigame well.

 

[noturiah]

I don't hate the direction Ivy has taken, but I do miss the old Ivy to a degree. The Ivy that had a soft spot for Perry, because of his stutter, the Ivy that found Wade attractive, before she learned of his ties to Cindy. Back when she wasn't necessarily manipulative, but was genuinely trying to help Lena and Holly out, even if we as the players knew most of Ivy's suggestions aren't for the best they were at least coming from a place of good intent. To some degree how Ivy treats Lena and Holly could still be viewed through that lens, but the more recent chapters do bring that sentiment under more scrutiny.

I think you phrase this very well, and reading it I'm realizing I agree with you. While I loved the "slutty Holly" montage of phone photos Ivy shares with Lena, the fact that Ivy seemed to be mocking Holly behind her back to Lena - for following Ivy's own directions! - didn't sit well with me. Ivy bossing Holly around because of her own idea of what's sexy and fun, so she wants Holly to experience that too, is what I thought we were seeing for the last half-dozen chapters or so. Now I'm less sure. I'm thinking of Ivy in some variants of the conversation after the shower scene in ch11, telling Holly that she's jealous Holly "prefers Lena." I took that as joking around, and Lena does too, but maybe Ivy was being more honest there?

When Lena finds out Ivy has been seeing Axel socially and having him shoot photos of her and push her portfolio to Wildcats, the player can get Lena a Will point if Lena believes Ivy has had no ill intent by not telling Lena about it. That doesn't mean Ivy doesn't have ill intent - as ffive mentions, there are long-running suspicions of Ivy's motives on our forum - but it does mean that Lena not being suspicious of Ivy benefits her (and us, in the game). When Ivy is paying attention to Lena's feelings, which does happen occasionally, she can be quite tender. At the same time she's brutal to Lena about sleeping with Mike if Lena has been sleeping with him. It's canon that Ivy is hooking up with him regardless, so it's not like she sleeps with him to hurt Lena, but it can be difficult to read her dialogue there without thinking some part of Ivy is enjoying making Lena feel small for possibly having feelings for Mike. So I do wonder if Ivy might be changing some, starting to get a little hard and cruel.

If that's the case, my guess might be that the hinge moment is getting passed on by Wildcats, which is also unable to change because of a player's decisions. As I've said before, if Ivy's motives in general have been mostly unclear, the one thing it's obvious that she unequivocally wants is to model with Wildcats. Axel may or may not really be trying to help her, and any version of Ivy is going to set Cindy as her nemesis for getting the job, but is Ivy starting to take out her frustrations from not getting the gig on her friends, on Lena and Holly? I do wonder.

 

[SearingFive]

Yeah, i believe Ivy is still mostly acting with some mix of carefree attitude and Lena's good interest on mind, but i also wonder if there's maybe a bias at work here, where she believes "the best" for Lena is to be with Ivy, and she works to such effect. Like, someone joked a while ago that Ivy is dragging all Lena's partners down so she seems like the best option... and maybe that's not entirely just a joke after all.

Das me who stated that.

 

[vvvhhhhnnn]

I want to hear from slutty-version Holly about her experiences. She's weirdly passive in just going along with obviously-a-bit-creepy Ivy all the time on that path and if she's clever enough to be writing and quite introverted she'd definitely have thoughts and it's weird she never says anything about this massive lifestyle change. Plus Robert's an idiot and she'd notice, even if she liked the sex

 

[BlandChili]

I want to hear from slutty-version Holly about her experiences. She's weirdly passive in just going along with obviously-a-bit-creepy Ivy all the time on that path and if she's clever enough to be writing and quite introverted she'd definitely have thoughts and it's weird she never says anything about this massive lifestyle change. Plus Robert's an idiot and she'd notice, even if she liked the sex

I think it would be nice if Lena and Holly could communicate with each other more directly in regards to their sluttier pursuits. I'm hopeful something like that might come up with Mark, since on the route where they both get with him, Lena has to encourage Holly directly at a later point anyway. I'd like there to be some room for Lena and Holly to be explorative without giving in to Ivy's ideas entirely.

 

[Blurpee69]

I want to hear from slutty-version Holly about her experiences. She's weirdly passive in just going along with obviously-a-bit-creepy Ivy all the time on that path and if she's clever enough to be writing and quite introverted she'd definitely have thoughts and it's weird she never says anything about this massive lifestyle change. Plus Robert's an idiot and she'd notice, even if she liked the sex

A sluttier Holly was weirdly passive during Ian's half of the chapter, but that can be attributed to only really knowing and being interested in Ian. Likely an Ian that had already ignored her (big fuck you vibes most of their scenes together), until Lena arrives. Additionally, this version of Holly is browsing social media far more, and probably (s)texting Robert, Mark, and/or Clark, and definitely keeping in touch with Ivy; which will also take her attention away from the group.

I think for Lena's half, we'll get a lot more discussion out of Holly, as they both have a connection with Ivy. Lena will certainly want to discuss with Holly all of those texts she sent to Ivy, regardless of if Lena is slutty or not. And they're the most likely roommate pairing on this version of Holly, unless Holly is involved with Ian, but then this discussion is moot.

In fairness Holly does touch on it to some degree with Lena at multiple points in the prior chapters, and there is a short discussion with Ian and Emma when they're on the beach with the dog. So she has thought on it, but we as the players and as Lena, hadn't yet had the big reveal of Holly taking slutty selfies and sending them to Ivy; so there wasn't much to discuss from Ian's PoV.

 

[DeemLeem12]

All these talks of sluttier Holly but no mention of Marcel? I'm disappointed.

 

[Xupuzulla]

All these talks of sluttier Holly but no mention of Marcel? I'm disappointed.

I know,right?
Thats her endgame husband.

 

[Gicoo]

P.S. - Is anyone else just waiting for the dog to steal and bury someone's bikini? Just me?

Nah, he already cried about Emma going topless, he doesn't have the guts to steal it.