VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[Gicoo]

It's very odd that Holly gives up on Ian noticing her if he doesn't come to the book fair. Like that one conflicted event weekend was the be all or end all of their relationship and if he sticks to his previous commitment there's no chance for her.

Like, yes, people can be that up in their own heads and creating narratives, but I'm not sure if that was on purpose for Holly, or accidental?

It's very much gameplay oriented. It's the big important Holly event, if you skip it, you aren't on her route.

Else agreed that she gives up too easy just because he cancels one invitation. People are busy, girl, just ask for another date.

If I had to justify it, it is that Holly and Ian both need an extraordinary event to get together, else they keep being slightly awkward co-workers, so a romance is only possible if they share a special trip in which they are forced to confront each other.

 

[Hungover00]

It's very much gameplay oriented. It's the big important Holly event, if you skip it, you aren't on her route.

Else agreed that she gives up too easy just because he cancels one invitation. People are busy, girl, just ask for another date.

If I had to justify it, it is that Holly and Ian both need an extraordinary event to get together, else they keep being slightly awkward co-workers, so a romance is only possible if they share a special trip in which they are forced to confront each other.

Yeah, I think that's my issue with it, there's a certain level of psychology that's implied, but hidden behind the artifice of gameplay branches. Not a big deal, just odd enough to get a double take.

That's part of why I prefer multiple on/off ramps for characters in games. And ORS does have them, they are just 6-8+ chapters apart at times.

 

[Hungover00]

Planning a 'Sluts Apart' playthrough, where Ian and Lena never get committed to one another (at best, FWB, but maybe not even that).

For Ian:
Alison is a bit of a cockblocker. It's her or Cherry. I think you might be able to hit her up early or very late and also kick off Emma, but not sure about the early (ie. sleep with Alison first opportunity, but hit up Emma at Blazer). It's either Cindy or Holly, iirc, and Holly is hard to not try and girlfriend hard. Bad Jessica (not a huge fan of what's available so far). I don't know if Ian even flirts with Louise without Lena creating the 3some. Flirt with Ivy. Minerva. And potentially Lena, if it doesn't mess up the meta-playthrough. Is there anyone else?

Is it even possible to go Cherry=>Emma=>Cindy, backdoor into Alison through Jeremy? Maybe get a slutty Holly at the beach party, though Emma takes precedence...So for that, Alison=>Alison=>Cindy=>Holly?

For Lena:
Robert sucks, and there's competition between him and the M's and Ian, but otherwise there's a bit of juggling. Jeremy or not to Jeremy. Axel (blargh). Seymour, Stan, Louise, Ivy, Holly, and end run of Emma. (John and Jack, as alternates, I guess) Marcel if not Jeremy, but I think that's one scene. Plus Seymour vs. Stalkfalp/Billy. I usually try and leave Jeremy high and dry, so I guess leave him and Louise together, and do that whole branch. Is Mike or Mark any different, other than the 'other woman' aspect?

Big question, is it better/easier to keep Ian/Lena completely separate for this kind of run, or is FWB conceivable?

Am I missing any big factors?

 

[Hungover00]

I feel like this is lore I probably knew, and then forgot...Is Robert related to Minerva?

 

[Socrambus]

It's very odd that Holly gives up on Ian noticing her if he doesn't come to the book fair. Like that one conflicted event weekend was the be all or end all of their relationship and if he sticks to his previous commitment there's no chance for her.

Like, yes, people can be that up in their own heads and creating narratives, but I'm not sure if that was on purpose for Holly, or accidental?

It's stranger that there isn't a late Cindy path, not going to her (not even that, it's Wade's) birthday party for a career related travel it's perfectly reasonable. Cindy herself shows surprise when you go to the party and tell her you didn't go to the book fair instead. To me it's more of a dev decision to cut on multiple paths forcing a branching between Cindy and Holly (although we have ended with the late slutty Holly possibility so maybe we also get at some point a late slutty Cindy path). I understand the simplifying approach but to me it would have made more sense with Alison's travel instead of Holly's.

 

[Hungover00]

It's stranger that there isn't a late Cindy path, not going to her (not even that, it's Wade's) birthday party for a career related travel it's perfectly reasonable. Cindy herself shows surprise when you go to the party and tell her you didn't go to the book fair instead. To me it's more of a dev decision to cut on multiple paths forcing a branching between Cindy and Holly (although we have ended with the late slutty Holly possibility so maybe we also get at some point a late slutty Cindy path). I understand the simplifying approach but to me it would have made more sense with Alison's travel instead of Holly's.

I very much dislike mutually exclusive paths. It's probably 80% of why I prefer harem games. I'd rather opt in, than be excluded by arbitrary reason.

But if they have to happen, they should be consistent. At least.

 

[ffive]

It's stranger that there isn't a late Cindy path, not going to her (not even that, it's Wade's) birthday party for a career related travel it's perfectly reasonable. Cindy herself shows surprise when you go to the party and tell her you didn't go to the book fair instead.

That's not really part of Ian's career though, he's got yet to write anything, much less publish and become an author people will want to meet and greet. As it is, that's just indulgement on his part, to see "what it's like".

On the flip side, the fact he does attend the b-day party despite having opportunity to go on the trip is very much a catalyst that makes Cindy realize just how high Ian values her and concerns himself with her well-being, as opposed to her own boyfriend. It's highly questionable if they got together without it (as opposed to just Axel swooping in and seducing highly disappointed and jaded Cindy)

 

[Hungover00]

Are there two or three paths for Cindy? Mostly it feels like two, but a third could happen.

 

[varpep]

there is many girl too bad u can t have all of them

Or can you?! No. The answer is no. But I do have a playthrough where I try to sleep with every girl and the only girls left are Ivy and Gillian.

 

[Geigi]

Or can you?! No. The answer is no. But I do have a playthrough where I try to sleep with every girl and the only girls left are Ivy and Gillian.

Yeah, my third playthrough Lena is sucking and fucking every man.

 

[Leongen43]

Yeah, my third playthrough Lena is sucking and fucking every man.

Only in third playthrough? In all my playthrough Lena is a whore like the town drunk in a western movie "0 respect"

 

[Geigi]

Only in third playthrough? In all my playthrough Lena is a whore like the town drunk in a western movie "0 respect"

Yes, because I have two other playthroughs where Lena is exclusive with Ian and second where she's casual with him. I just like Ian.

 

[varpep]

i didn't play all the game,so there scene with gillian in the next update?

Hopefully. I'm not sure

 

[Socrambus]

That's not really part of Ian's career though, he's got yet to write anything, much less publish and become an author people will want to meet and greet. As it is, that's just indulgement on his part, to see "what it's like".

I disagree, book fairs (or similar events for other industries) have a lot of networking besides the advertisement and engagement with fans. If Ian goes with Holly, he meets Victor which is a very useful contact to make to publish in his magazine and as member of the jury on the book contest. I seem to remember Ian also gets to talk to Seymour.

Also, useful or not career-wise, Cindy herself acknowledges the sacrifice if you choose not to attend and go to her party:

i "I even rejected an invitation to go to a book fair to be here tonight..."
$ fcindy = "blush"
c "You did that...? Your writing career is what you're most passionate about."
i "It is... But that doesn't mean that's the only thing I'm passionate about."

On the flip side, the fact he does attend the b-day party despite having opportunity to go on the trip is very much a catalyst that makes Cindy realize just how high Ian values her and concerns himself with her well-being, as opposed to her own boyfriend. It's highly questionable if they got together without it (as opposed to just Axel swooping in and seducing highly disappointed and jaded Cindy)

Your reasoning is valid but I see two issues with it. The first one is that Cindy path might happen whether you refused the opportunity of going with Holly or not (because Ian didn't receive the invitation from Holly). So it's not really a necessary catalyst, Ian might have just gone to the party as part of his usual routine of having some drinks with his friends. The second issue I have with it is more subjective, I think Ian and Cindy relationship is more of a gradual process than an unique big moment turning point (I see more like that Ian suddenly realizing her friend Emms is hot and have a great ass, if the grinding at the club doesn't happen it makes sense to me that Ian continues to see Emma as just a very good friend as he has all those years).

Anyhow, I still think it would have made more sense to force the branching between Cindy and Alison's travel. It makes more sense narratively as traveling with Alison is purely recreational and it could have probably been a bigger help for simplifiying the plot as both Cindy and Alison are part of the same group of friends and we have ended having a late slutty Holly path anyway.

 

[Gicoo]

It's stranger that there isn't a late Cindy path, not going to her (not even that, it's Wade's) birthday party for a career related travel it's perfectly reasonable. Cindy herself shows surprise when you go to the party and tell her you didn't go to the book fair instead. To me it's more of a dev decision to cut on multiple paths forcing a branching between Cindy and Holly (although we have ended with the late slutty Holly possibility so maybe we also get at some point a late slutty Cindy path). I understand the simplifying approach but to me it would have made more sense with Alison's travel instead of Holly's.

Aside from what ffive explained about that event being a rare opportunity for Ian and Cindy to bond, which doesn't happen afterwards since they are never alone, late Cindy needs a reason why she would go after Ian. Okay, she is single again and is now looking for available men. Can it be Ian if she remembered how he supported her and did himself well during the past months (career, body, charisma)? Yes, but Cindy just broke up with Wade and is very busy with her own career. So if a late Cindy path happens, it couldn't have been in chapter 10-12.

I think Ian and Cindy relationship is more of a gradual process than an unique big moment turning point

Without the very dramatic events on that evening, Cindy and Ian would hardly have a reason to get together. They have a very loose, casual friendship with very clear boundarys. They could only get together if such a drastic event happened. It was a cumulation of multiple factors. Cindy is devastated at Wade dismissing her efforts to organize a memorable birthday party for him her themselves, self-loathing at her failure to maintain a stable relationship and moved that Ian is the only person in her life in that moment who ackknowledges her.


Regarding the old debatte of Holly and Cindy exclusive: What would we even gain if the two events weren't exclusive? Say Ian fucks Holly and Cindy. Then later on he and Holly meet Perry, Wade and Cindy and Ian introduces Holly as his new friend while they play cards. Considering how he just has a new girlfriend, why would Cindy consider to be interested in Ian? It is a signal that he moved on from the heat in the moment kiss/fuck and is already starting a new relationship with another girl. Why would he backtrack later after the photoshoot and tell her that she is the one he cares about? Also, Cindy was kind to Holly, so why would she agree to fuck her boyfriend? She is less likely to do that since she ascertains that Holly wouldn't take it as well than say Lena. With Lena its purposely intricate, since they consider themselves rivales in matters of Ian, Axel, their careers and being the woman in the room who gets all attention.

 

[ffive]

Also, useful or not career-wise, Cindy herself acknowledges the sacrifice if you choose not to attend and go to her party:

Yes, Cindy notes that going there would be a big thing for Ian, but like they both state, that's because writing is his passion. In other words, this aligns with what i said, that visiting the fair would be indulging in what's Ian's hobby/dream far more than a career move.

In a way it's like Wade giving up on his gaming sessions in order to spend time with Cindy because he wants to, instead of just to appease her. Something Wade hasn't done in a long time and what poisoned their relationship. It's also why imo it makes certain sense for Ian who does pick to do his thing instead of coming to the b-day party loses his chance with Cindy: because he effectively shows her that when push comes to shove, he's just another Wade.

Your reasoning is valid but I see two issues with it. The first one is that Cindy path might happen whether you refused the opportunity of going with Holly or not (because Ian didn't receive the invitation from Holly)

This is technically true, but i think that realistically getting the invitation from Holly is pretty much guaranteed on most playthroughs -- the player can only "avoid it" if they go out of their way to avoid Holly when such actions don't gain them anything in term of alternative.

That Ian/Cindy still happens even if this aspect isn't present is something i'd chalk down to EK making a concession here to avoid complicating even further the already complicated pathing -- "you don't get to hook up with Cindy because you weren't receptive to Holly only to turn her down" would probably confound and/or piss off some of those players who did avoid Holly, even more if they've done it so they'd focus on Cindy exclusively.

The second issue I have with it is more subjective, I think Ian and Cindy relationship is more of a gradual process than an unique big moment turning point

The way i see it, it's a combination of both -- the gradual process happens during the earlier outings and interactions, but that turning point makes Cindy change the very nature how she sees Ian: from "my boyfriend's friend" through "a fun and supportive friend" to "a guy, with a penis that's hard for me."

I don't think Cindy would really, truly register, or more importantly, care about that latter point if by then she had Axel all over her in far more than just professional capacity. Maybe if Axel then disappointed her somehow, but this would just give us another Lena, if Ian was then to pick up the pieces.

 

[Hungover00]

So, does Posh or Chad level ever do anything by being low/negative? It seems like it's just an absence of content/options, like there is never a good scenario to wear sportswear. The only slight positive I've seen for a low level of these is you can take Lena to a date at the Fortress and gain a RP. But that's it.

 

[Socrambus]

I feel like this is lore I probably knew, and then forgot...Is Robert related to Minerva?

I don't think so, I don't remember it but it's Robert, I could have perfectly forgotten about it.

Aside from what ffive explained about that event being a rare opportunity for Ian and Cindy to bond, which doesn't happen afterwards since they are never alone, late Cindy needs a reason why she would go after Ian. Okay, she is single again and is now looking for available men. Can it be Ian if she remembered how he supported her and did himself well during the past months (career, body, charisma)? Yes, but Cindy just broke up with Wade and is very busy with her own career. So if a late Cindy path happens, it couldn't have been in chapter 10-12.



Without the very dramatic events on that evening, Cindy and Ian would hardly have a reason to get together. They have a very loose, casual friendship with very clear boundarys. They could only get together if such a drastic event happened. It was a cumulation of multiple factors. Cindy is devastated at Wade dismissing her efforts to organize a memorable birthday party for him her themselves, self-loathing at her failure to maintain a stable relationship and moved that Ian is the only person in her life in that moment who ackknowledges her.


Regarding the old debatte of Holly and Cindy exclusive: What would we even gain if the two events weren't exclusive? Say Ian fucks Holly and Cindy. Then later on he and Holly meet Perry, Wade and Cindy and Ian introduces Holly as his new friend while they play cards. Considering how he just has a new girlfriend, why would Cindy consider to be interested in Ian? It is a signal that he moved on from the heat in the moment kiss/fuck and is already starting a new relationship with another girl. Why would he backtrack later after the photoshoot and tell her that she is the one he cares about? Also, Cindy was kind to Holly, so why would she agree to fuck her boyfriend? She is less likely to do that since she ascertains that Holly wouldn't take it as well than say Lena. With Lena its purposely intricate, since they consider themselves rivales in matters of Ian, Axel, their careers and being the woman in the room who gets all attention.

Casual friendship with very clear boundaries?, sure, if you ignore all the flirting, nudes sending and wanking to said nudes. I'm not proposing an alternative implementation where you go with Holly and everything happens the same with Cindy as it happens currently if you choose to go to Cindy's party. I'm just suggesting Cindy not getting irrationally mad with Ian over going to the book fair (maybe just a minor lose in relationship points like 1 or 2 max) and a possible late Cindy path where their relationship continues to develop and can eventually happen. That's if you mantain the Cindy-Holly branching, ideally I would change it to a Cindy-Alison branching.

Yes, Cindy notes that going there would be a big thing for Ian, but like they both state, that's because writing is his passion. In other words, this aligns with what i said, that visiting the fair would be indulging in what's Ian's hobby/dream far more than a career move.

In a way it's like Wade giving up on his gaming sessions in order to spend time with Cindy because he wants to, instead of just to appease her. Something Wade hasn't done in a long time and what poisoned their relationship. It's also why imo it makes certain sense for Ian who does pick to do his thing instead of coming to the b-day party loses his chance with Cindy: because he effectively shows her that when push comes to shove, he's just another Wade.

I don't see it the same way and neither does Cindy, to her videogames are silly and writing is a admirable thing to be passionate about. I don't see being an esports pro as something silly, although I see Wade as being way too old to realistically start a pro career. But the key difference is that Ian has a job where he can also work hard to climb the ladder and makes the effort to spend time with Cindy and support her modelling ambitions, whereas Wade is jobless and sees as a titanic effort to get out of the couch and have some drinks with his friends at his favourite place.

Also, regarding Ian motivations for the trip, he explicity thinks about the possible networking as one of the reasons to go:

    "Holly looked sad, like a kid whose favorite balloon has slipped from their grasp and drifted away to the clouds."
    "I was bummed out, too. I really wanted to go... But I promised Cindy I would go to Blazer with her and the gang..."
    "This was an interesting opportunity for my career, though. I could meet influential people at such an event, especially if I was by Holly's side."
    "And spending a weekend with her sounded really appealing, too..."

This is technically true, but i think that realistically getting the invitation from Holly is pretty much guaranteed on most playthroughs -- the player can only "avoid it" if they go out of their way to avoid Holly when such actions don't gain them anything in term of alternative.


That Ian/Cindy still happens even if this aspect isn't present is something i'd chalk down to EK making a concession here to avoid complicating even further the already complicated pathing -- "you don't get to hook up with Cindy because you weren't receptive to Holly only to turn her down" would probably confound and/or piss off some of those players who did avoid Holly, even more if they've done it so they'd focus on Cindy exclusively.

The invitation is dependant on ian_go_holly not being 0. If I'm not missing something if you choose to have lunch with Alison instead of Holly (not that weird I think) and a few chapters later you continue to just continue texting Holly instead of proposing her a "date", ian_go_holly would be 0 and you would not receive an invitation from Holly. I don't see that as going out of your way to avoid Holly.

The way i see it, it's a combination of both -- the gradual process happens during the earlier outings and interactions, but that turning point makes Cindy change the very nature how she sees Ian: from "my boyfriend's friend" through "a fun and supportive friend" to "a guy, with a penis that's hard for me."

I don't think Cindy would really, truly register, or more importantly, care about that latter point if by then she had Axel all over her in far more than just professional capacity. Maybe if Axel then disappointed her somehow, but this would just give us another Lena, if Ian was then to pick up the pieces.

I think that the part of Ian having a penis and being hard for her is pretty obvious before that if you choose Ian to go full after Cindy. Your Axel point is true and sure, it would have to be taken into account if a late Cindy path were to be developed.

 

[Nifferman]

me too i like ian.The others arrogant,only ian and perry are normal

What's wrong with Wade and Jeremy? Both of them are a decent friends if you choose your options right ie.

 

[ffive]

So, does Posh or Chad level ever do anything by being low/negative? It seems like it's just an absence of content/options, like there is never a good scenario to wear sportswear. The only slight positive I've seen for a low level of these is you can take Lena to a date at the Fortress and gain a RP. But that's it.

A low-posh Lena gets option to sell Seymour's necklace, high-posh Lena will automatically decide to keep it even if she's starving.

Low-posh Lena also gets couple minor choices, like practicing the guitar instead of getting ready for meeting with Seymour, and occasionally getting along better with Emma, either gaining relationship points or avoiding a loss.