VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[mommysboiii]

I can already smell the mod purge

 

[Deleted member 2312665]

 

[BlackIsBetter]

Love all the folk not understanding how complex writing is, and the more complex it gets the more layers you build upon - such as building a VN with choices that change the story. Do I think Eva is out of her league? A bit. I think GGGB was a great start, but I don't think ORS should've been her second game. I feel she would've had greater success doing a 1-protag game again before attempting a 2-protag game. Or even something simple as while working on a simpler game, work on the plotting for said 2-protag game.

I think she's just over-stressed from being too deep in a project too complex for her level of writing, and thus doesn't know exactly the best way to continue.

I think the issue would be solved if the dev focused solely on the writing. Let other people do the art, coding, testing and whatnot while they focus on telling the story.

Of course that would mean less money for the dev but the time it takes for an update wouldn't jump from 2 months to 5 months. Who knows, maybe the growth of Patreon subscriber count starts picking up and the revenue picks up as well.

But I guess her Patrons are happy with how things are currently. I don't see anyone complaining about it in her last post. Then again, that might just be due to the fact that post is locked and you can't post any comments.

 

[gymnopedies]

I think the issue would be solved if the dev focused solely on the writing. Let other people do the art, coding, testing and whatnot while they focus on telling the story.

Of course that would mean less money for the dev but the time it takes for an update wouldn't jump from 2 months to 5 months. Who knows, maybe the growth of Patreon subscriber count starts picking up and the revenue picks up as well.

But I guess her Patrons are happy with how things are currently. I don't see anyone complaining about it in her last post. Then again, that might just be due to the fact that post is locked and you can't post any comments.

im happy, i dont see any problem at all.

 

[reyir]

Ignoring the unnecessary insult, It should be bothering you, especially if you are paying for the game. I cannot imagine someone paying this much money for this little content. Also, people on here have multiple times said that "You don't pay for the game = You are irrelevant."

"You don't pay for the game = You are irrelevant." that statement is true, its like when you go to restaurant and buying food there, you had every right to expresses your disappointment to the restaurant, if you think your food is not good, but the reality theres near zero complaint received... but theres also someone who barged into the restaurant and steal the food from there and then the next day come to the restaurant and shout "The food its not good! how dare you sell this food for this amount of money! " and all that bullshit, they act like they spends money on that food when the reality is they just steal it and being really shameless after that, if you still dont understand until now, i dont know how to tell you

If you think that its to much money, then you are not their market target, theres people think 10 euro its a very little amount of money, but theres also someone who think 1 euro is a big amount of money, both of them its true and its as simple as that, are you even go to school before this, cuz you dont even know the most basic thing in economic

 

[BloodyMares]

Wasn't that a Remaster? So no new content, just old one updated?

There was new content within Remaster. It's called Remaster, but in reality it's revision with a lot of changes to the narrative and gameplay. There were a quite a bit of completely new art pieces, not just updates to existing ones.

 

[BloodyMares]

I think the issue would be solved if the dev focused solely on the writing. Let other people do the art, coding, testing and whatnot while they focus on telling the story.

Okay, but what people? I can't even find the people that would write updates to character bios. I had quite a bit of volunteers, sure, but most of them disappeared and have not been active. It's one thing to say you want to contribute, but when it comes to that, very few stay and commit to their words. Testing is mostly done exclusively by me and Lara, and we're way overcommitted as it is. If you happen to know talented people that would like to work on the game, then go ahead, send them our way. But I doubt anyone would stick around for even a couple of months.

 

[_Zebra_]

"You don't pay for the game = You are irrelevant." that statement is true, its like when you go to restaurant and buying food there, you had every right to expresses your disappointment to the restaurant, if you think your food is not good, but the reality theres near zero complaint received... but theres also someone who barged into the restaurant and steal the food from there and then the next day come to the restaurant and shout "The food its not good! how dare you sell this food for this amount of money! " and all that bullshit..."

There is a small problem with your analogy. So you have a restaurant that sells burgers, but you also have a park where like minded individuals gather to consume and to discuss about food.

The thing is in that in this park everyone can consume anything they want: burgers, stakes, sushi, you name it. Now the park is a big place so let's concentrate on the corner in which the burger eating people gather. Everyone has tasted the burger. Is it wrong to say, that anyone can comment about the quality of the salad or to comment about the time it takes to grill the meat? I personally don't believe it is. In the park everyone is equal and entitled to their own opinion. It doesn't matter if the burger was obtained directly from the burger shop or it was obtained from the cool guy that sits under a tree with a beer in his hand. What is important is that everyone tasted that delicious burger.

This part was simple. Now let's go back to your statement. What you are saying is that the people that bought the burger from the burger shop are the only people allowed to have a voice in the park. That is so wrong. You simply can not go in a different community and start telling people what they are allowed to do or not to do. You go there and if you don't agree with an opinion, you polity discuss about it with arguments. The fact that you know that you have a receipt, in a place where a receipt doesn't matter is not an argument. Now if that does not work and you find everyone from the park annoying as hell, than you leave. Go in the restaurant and talk with other customers.

And last but not least, if we are talking about the restaurant, than you are correct. Only customers can go in the restaurant and express their worries and concerns.

I feel like you deserve a burger, so here is one:

 

[PurpleDude]

I`m curious. Do you think that Eva`s decision to remaster ORS was influenced by her friend RedLolly, developer of Lust Campus? Firts RedLollry starts remastering LC, then Eva remasters ORS. Any connection?

 

[Canto Forte]

I think that many devs working their games as a whole all the time can cave into their craft,
as in the motivation this dev told is a pretty standard explanation for everyone else doing it:
She got better at it and wants a more inclusive experience demonstrating her craft,
why would she let what now seem to her
half assed pics in the early game, when she wants this game to shine?

I`m curious. Do you think that Eva`s decision to remaster ORS was influenced by her friend RedLolly, developer of Lust Campus? Firts RedLollry starts remastering LC, then Eva remasters ORS. Any connection?

She could a picked any number of devs who already do this, case in pint nottravis who is a girl stuck
in remaster, remake, retool game making machinery for years

 

[dolfe67]

I`m curious. Do you think that Eva`s decision to remaster ORS was influenced by her friend RedLolly, developer of Lust Campus? Firts RedLollry starts remastering LC, then Eva remasters ORS. Any connection?

Not at all. RedLolly was forced to remake her game because the artist left.

 

[BlackIsBetter]

Okay, but what people? I can't even find the people that would write updates to character bios. I had quite a bit of volunteers, sure, but most of them disappeared and have not been active. It's one thing to say you want to contribute, but when it comes to that, very few stay and commit to their words. Testing is mostly done exclusively by me and Lara, and we're way overcommitted as it is. If you happen to know talented people that would like to work on the game, then go ahead, send them our way. But I doubt anyone would stick around for even a couple of months.

Surely there have to be people that can help you out in some way, right? This is a pretty big game with a lot of followers, surely some of them would be willing to and would be of some help. If not with coding and art, then proof reading and testing. I don't know what exactly you guys need help with.

 

[Ragnar]

I`m curious. Do you think that Eva`s decision to remaster ORS was influenced by her friend RedLolly, developer of Lust Campus? Firts RedLollry starts remastering LC, then Eva remasters ORS. Any connection?

No, but maybe when she saw how they earned 4k by releasing updates every 3 months at first and doing the "remake" later, this means months without releasing anything, she decided to work less for the same money too. Think about it, both games have been in development hell for at least a year.
During GGGB development Evamilks was one of the most constant and hard-working developers around, there were few months without an update during the entire development cycle. Compare that with ORS development, first it was I need a couple of months for each update, later it was 3, the remake nobody asked for and now nobody knows.
Do yo know about our lord and savior Icstor?

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

I`m curious. Do you think that Eva`s decision to remaster ORS was influenced by her friend RedLolly, developer of Lust Campus? Firts RedLollry starts remastering LC, then Eva remasters ORS. Any connection?

Slightly different situations. Eva suffered a burnout and needed a break from further development, a small remaster with a visual update and minor changes to the scenes and story gave her time to think about further development. Eva made a remaster in 5.5 months (of which she spent a month on vacation and canceled payment for this time)

Something else happened with RedLolly - the artist who drew the visual for the game left and refused to give copyright to a new employee. The new artist now has to redraw everything from scratch, so this is not a remaster of Lust Campus, it's more like a restart. RedLolly spends 4-5 months on just one episode in the new version.

 

[BlackIsBetter]

No, but maybe when she saw how they earned 4k by releasing updates every 3 months at first and doing the "remake" later, this means months without releasing anything, she decided to work less for the same money too. Think about it, both games have been in development hell for at least a year.
During GGGB development Evamilks was one of the most constant and hard-working developers around, there were few months without an update during the entire development cycle. Compare that with ORS development, first it was I need a couple of months for each update, later it was 3, the remake nobody asked for and now nobody knows.
Do yo know about our lord and savior Icstor?

View attachment 1949764

How many updates have their been this year?

 

[BloodyMares]

Surely there have to be people that can help you out in some way, right? This is a pretty big game with a lot of followers, surely some of them would be willing to and would be of some help. If not with coding and art, then proof reading and testing. I don't know what exactly you guys need help with.

I thought so too until I decided to assemble a team of Loremasters that would help by tracking the branches and plot developments for their favorite characters. There were quite a few volunteers, but only one of them is still contributing AFAIK, everyone else bailed.

Proofreading and testing, aside from myself and Lara, are also done by a couple of patron volunteers who dive deep into the game. But it's a couple of people in a more than a 1k-people server. This game might be well-known, but the fans are not that eager to help with the game.

Eva tried to find a person that would do linework for her, but based on lack of updates on that front, I assume that person quit as well. And Eva had to spend her own time training him. Now that time is gone for nothing.

Now imagine if she decided to hire an additional writer. First, they'd have to be up to speed with everything that happened so far. I used to be able to keep up with every branch, but now the game is too big for me to keep track of everything, and Eva tells that I know more than her when it comes to all the possible variants... So you can imagine that no single person can track all the branches, and that leads to plot holes and unexpected bugs. Loremasters sure would be helpful, but they're very hard to find. The ones that would stay for long anyway.

So yeah... It's very easy to say "just get person x for task y". But obviously it's not as simple, and there's always a risk that you'll only waste your time trying to adapt to the new person, and then that person decides to leave because reality of working on such a massive project is not as fascinating as thinking about it from the sidelines. Most people get overwhelmed very fast.

 

[sday98]

I was top tier patron and i complained about shelling out 6mo for that little whack update and she kicked me off her page. shows you dev knows the criticism is legit. She bit off more than she can chew trying to incorporate so many characters results in barely any depth / variety in decision outcomes. Not to mention the evergreen theme of writing a novel and writing songs, cmon. the novel especially is super whack and adds nothing. The random dht scene also is a clue that they are out of ideas. Thanks for saving me the dough rabbit ears

 

[camube]

Writing is the one thing that she can't outsourced. It would lose it's charm if anyone but her write it.

 

[The_Searcher]

I thought so too until I decided to assemble a team of Loremasters that would help by tracking the branches and plot developments for their favorite characters. There were quite a few volunteers, but only one of them is still contributing AFAIK, everyone else bailed.

Proofreading and testing, aside from myself and Lara, are also done by a couple of patron volunteers who dive deep into the game. But it's a couple of people in a more than a 1k-people server. This game might be well-known, but the fans are not that eager to help with the game.

Eva tried to find a person that would do linework for her, but based on lack of updates on that front, I assume that person quit as well. And Eva had to spend her own time training him. Now that time is gone for nothing.

Now imagine if she decided to hire an additional writer. First, they'd have to be up to speed with everything that happened so far. I used to be able to keep up with every branch, but now the game is too big for me to keep track of everything, and Eva tells that I know more than her when it comes to all the possible variants... So you can imagine that no single person can track all the branches, and that leads to plot holes and unexpected bugs. Loremasters sure would be helpful, but they're very hard to find. The ones that would stay for long anyway.

So yeah... It's very easy to say "just get person x for task y". But obviously it's not as simple, and there's always a risk that you'll only waste your time trying to adapt to the new person, and then that person decides to leave because reality of working on such a massive project is not as fascinating as thinking about it from the sidelines. Most people get overwhelmed very fast.

Wait, if I understand correctly this post... That means that Eva doesn't have a sort of scheme/graphic/notebook/etc... or similar marking every possible route and possible variants? She is the writer... So, how it's possible that you could know more of the variants in the game that her? How she writes the game if she doesn't know all the possible variants?

At least I thought she could have some sort of updated graphic scheme marking each possible route (sort of like the menu of Detroit Become Human). You know, for some sort of guide or help. If it's not the case, with each chapter, the game it's gonna be more and more hard to advance the story and develop with all the variables. It could even end in bugs if there isn't a clearly route guide. Maybe she needs to do that before making any advance on the game. At least I think that a complete scheme of the game could make her life with ORS more easy.

 

[lockerxx]

any news?