VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[sauron93]

If that's your end all be all sure haha. You got more post activity on here than I do anyway. I'll be back in a week or two to check on some updates while you'll prob complain some more.

I have made 130 msgs in 2 yrs.. I only mentioned your joining yr because u correlated people making criticism on a game to "having no life"... which doesn't even make sense.. So I assumed anything goes lol

 

[cheesetriangles]

As the saying goes, figures don't lie, but liars figure.

Also 73.6% of all asserted statistics are made up on the spot.

It's incredibly easy to lie with numbers by controlling the context they are presented or to pick a limited dataset and so on.

 

[BloodyMares]

Oh yeah, those pesky 80% of obsessive fans (amongst those who voted of course, ie close to 800 people) . They're a plague, truly.

Just 800 people? Then it's very interesting to me. Around 1200 people seem to support Eva and not even participate in the poll asking their opinion. So I assume the absolute majority is fine with either option then.

I find your interpretation of the graphic fascinating.

You say that she only lost 25 patrons between Aug 11 2021 - Aug 11 2022 but you ignore on purpose that she reached the top on Apr 25 2022 with 2643 patrons only to lose 445 patrons the next months.

That's what the data/graphic says.

The top doesn't matter because it's rare when you reach that number. You can have bad months (lowest number) or good months (best number). You take one good month and compare it to not-so-good months. What matters is the average number that you can rely on most of the months. You can only see the change for the worse or the better if the average number changes as well. You can't know this if you only compare several months to each other.

For the more accurate conclusion, calculate average number of patrons in 2021 and compare it to the average number of patrons in 2022, and then compare them to each other. Or you can take 6-month periods if you wish, since 2022 is not over yet.

What's clear to me is that Eva's membership stopped growing, but to say that it declined just wouldn't be accurate if the average number stays the same. However, if the average is the same, then Eva gets less money because production cost has increased since last year and there hasn't been enough consistent growth to cover for it. I can see why she's reluctant hiring more people because it's an investment which may not translate to immediate returns.

 

[Night Hacker]

I can't imagine being a pirate complaining about waiting on a game I'm not paying for. Glad I got a life outside this forum.

Pirate? Tell me, how does one pirate a game that is eventually released for free to the public? Some folks in here do support the dev.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

I really love Eva's games. I think they're the best adult games (female protagonist) . There's nothing even close. But If I understand she's working on it full time? I just don't understand how can this take so long if you have few hours daily to work. If she have other job, working only weekends okay my bad, but she make quite a good money. So she probably working full time on it. Maybe she's not enjoying it anymore. I think it's more possible that she's just lost passion for making this. Who knows.

Suggestion for better understanding: Take a look at BloodyMares' guide for ORS. Look at all the possible major branching decisions and stat changes in even Episode 1 alone. Consider how complex that is for one character, let alone two. Look at the quality of the art and the quality of the writing.

Hell, do the same for GGGB, which was fairly less complex.

Then compare it to the branching in your own game, the art quality, the writing, the stat changes and number of different stats to track. I'm not trying to be offensive. I just don't think you fully realize the work that goes into this game as yours so far is comparatively quite simple in a large variety of ways. Few decisions or branching pathways. Of what decisions there are, the majority are a minor +1-or-not two-choice stat change, tied to an NPC.

The plethora of choices in Eva's games, the minute details of multiple decisions in a single choice tree and how each decision effects multiple forms of stats (not just one stat), the AMOUNT of choice trees that pop-up as opposed to clicking through lines of text, the mini games, the effort on quality art and writing, all in just the (relatively) simple first chapter alone, is going to take just so much more time. Couple that with the increasing complexity of every accumulative chapter.

Is ORS maybe too complex, Eva biting off more than she could chew? There's a very good argument for that. But it's absolutely no mystery why her chapters take so long for anyone paying attention to the complexity of her games vs other VNs, as well as to the level of quality in art & writing. (Though TBF, art and especially writing took a big leap forward in ORS, with the beginning of GGGB starting on a simple "Hello. I am the main character of this game. Now here's a bunch of lines of exposition that would fail you out of a basic writing course.")

 

[chrigelch]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every chapter is bigger than the one before it. How long can this go well. Half a year for the next chapter, nine months for the next one, a year for the following?

 

[JoJoPool]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every chapter is bigger than the one before it. How long can this go well. Half a year for the next chapter, nine months for the next one, a year for the following?

Exactly, that's the real problem. Eventually it will reach a point where it will become simply too stressful and unbearable to keep working on the game, the dev is already struggling as is.... a change is needed, like a bigger team.... the game is too big for Eva alone. Otherwise, I can see the abandoned tag as a possible future for ORS. I pray from the bottom of my heart that doesn't happen but I'm losing hope tbh.
Anyway, when my boy Stan finally gets to bang Lena then i can die a happy man... that's all that matters to me

 

[BloodyMares]

Pirate? Tell me, how does one pirate a game that is eventually released for free to the public? Some folks in here do support the dev.

But that's the thing, this game is not released for free to the public, it's leaked to the public. For GGGB, you can only buy it either directly on Patreon or on itch.io. If you find it for free elsewhere, it means it's pirated. Same for ORS.

 

[LaPein]

I think the decision of the patrons is very bad for the game. As many people said updates are getting bigger and more complex, so with this decision i fear evakiss will cut out content at some point and this will be far worse for the game than just releasing the ian/lena part earlier.

 

[Arata20]

I think the decision of the patrons is very bad for the game. As many people said updates are getting bigger and more complex, so with this decision i fear evakiss will cut out content at some point and this will be far worse for the game than just releasing the ian/lena part earlier.

Weird people on this forum. Sometimes they criticize those who speak badly about the game and are not patrons, sometimes they criticize the patrons themselves because them don't like their decision.

 

[Ragnar]

Suggestion for better understanding: Take a look at BloodyMares' guide for ORS. Look at all the possible major branching decisions and stat changes in even Episode 1 alone. Consider how complex that is for one character, let alone two. Look at the quality of the art and the quality of the writing.

Hell, do the same for GGGB, which was fairly less complex.

Then compare it to the branching in your own game, the art quality, the writing, the stat changes and number of different stats to track. I'm not trying to be offensive. I just don't think you fully realize the work that goes into this game as yours so far is comparatively quite simple in a large variety of ways. Few decisions or branching pathways. Of what decisions there are, the majority are a minor +1-or-not two-choice stat change, tied to an NPC.

The plethora of choices in Eva's games, the minute details of multiple decisions in a single choice tree and how each decision effects multiple forms of stats (not just one stat), the AMOUNT of choice trees that pop-up as opposed to clicking through lines of text, the mini games, the effort on quality art and writing, all in just the (relatively) simple first chapter alone, is going to take just so much more time. Couple that with the increasing complexity of every accumulative chapter.

Is ORS maybe too complex, Eva biting off more than she could chew? There's a very good argument for that. But it's absolutely no mystery why her chapters take so long for anyone paying attention to the complexity of her games vs other VNs, as well as to the level of quality in art & writing. (Though TBF, art and especially writing took a big leap forward in ORS, with the beginning of GGGB starting on a simple "Hello. I am the main character of this game. Now here's a bunch of lines of exposition that would fail you out of a basic writing course.")

Yeah, you can try to rationalize but compare GGGB development cycles with ORS.
It's like going from a porsche to a bicycle.

 

[Doppelgang]

Yeah, you can try to rationalize but compare GGGB development cycles with ORS.
It's like going from a porsche to a bicycle.

I’m just gonna repeat what I wrote last time this came up:

The things is, the amount of content per month has been relatively stable throughout the development of both of Evakiss’ games. I did a search and found this post from a while ago:

GGGB had about 7000 lines of code per update and it took a month. Chapters 2 to 5 took about 1.5 months and had around 10000 lines of code. Chapters 6 to 8 had about 20000 lines of code and took about 3 months. So she has been very consistant until chapter 9.

That doesn’t include Chapter 9 (which it’s true had a slower production pace, but also included Eva taking her first vacation in several years), or the remake (which isn’t possible to quantify in the same way). Still, the bottom line is the same: The often mentioned “truth” that the production pace has gradually gotten worse and worse, seems drastically exaggerated if we look at the actual numbers.

 

[Rosequake]

Crazy that Eva Kiss went and finally released her secret identity on her Patreon...

Spoiler: Eva Kiss Secret Identity

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[Geralt From Rivia]

Crazy that Eva Kiss went and finally released her secret identity on her Patreon...

Spoiler: Eva Kiss Secret Identity

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

In this case, Ian and Lena will be killed, stabbed and cut to pieces at their own wedding a few episodes later. And after that we will play for Perry.

 

[Sharku]

Too bad you left. This is the funniest and friendliest thread ever and it's almost 10,000 pages long. I've rarely seen anyone turn on offended mode there. Well, trolls with a "lazy developer milking money" line are quickly kicked out there.

Big problem with threads for the most popular games is that it's very hard to find any new info on upcoming release or any updates from dev. Good solution would be to have a second thread for these games where only new info/renders are posted. It'd significantly help people that are only interested in that while also people who are into discussion about plot, characters and memes wouldn't have to be annoyed by all the 'is there a release date yet?' and other questions of that nature.

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Big problem with threads for the most popular games is that it's very hard to find any new info on upcoming release or any updates from dev. Good solution would be to have a second thread for these games where only new info/renders are posted. It'd significantly help people that are only interested in that while also people who are into discussion about plot, characters and memes wouldn't have to be annoyed by all the 'is there a release date yet?' and other questions of that nature.

It's not a problem if you visit the thread every day.

 

[rj677]

Nice profile picture. I see you are a man of culture


I'll give one more reason "why" not to release the game in parts. Because after the release of Chapter 10 Ian alpha will be Chapter 10 Ian beta and only then the final. As you said, there will always be alphas and betas, and after the release in parts - too. And this is additional time for polishing the game, removing bugs, fixing minor flaws.
But now she doesn't have to do that and Eva is completely focused on Lena's part. Two or three weeks saved.

Damm, I missed your reply brother .

First, let me get this straight: You are a Sage/Quinn fan, almost the same pic as me, you are also a fan of ORS AND on top of that Im assuming you are a Witcher series fan aswell??
Bro, are you my twin from another universe or what?

Now on to ORS: You said that we are most likely gonna save 2 or 3 weeks... Im telling you that as things stand right now with this update, my guess is that instead of us saving time, we are gonna lose about a month with the update being released full and not halved (on top of the "normal" that we would need to wait anyway).

Im guessing this because Eva is a perfectionist... And because of that I know that she wont just save the complete Ian path and not touch it anymore , shes going to go back and forth between both and finding little things that just dont "look or fit right"... Then you add the extreme pressure of the fact that the patreons kindly didnt mind waiting for her quality even though they are waiting for 9 months for something new? Yeah, she will want every single thing to be perfect to "compensate", so yeah....

I really hope this is one of the million times Im wrong about something though *fingers crossed*

Like I said before: In my opinion, the increase in the amount of time between releases its just a symptom of Evas lack of confidence in the amazing dev that she is. When she realizes that MORE isnt necessarily BETTER, she is gonna shut up all her haters

 

[CoalPhelps]

First, let me get this straight: You are a Sage/Quinn fan...

Isn't that, like, at least 50% of the players in BaDIK, myself included?

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Damm, I missed your reply brother .

First, let me get this straight: You are a Sage/Quinn fan, almost the same pic as me, you are also a fan of ORS AND on top of that Im assuming you are a Witcher series fan aswell??
Bro, are you my twin from another universe or what?

Now on to ORS: You said that we are most likely gonna save 2 or 3 weeks... Im telling you that as things stand right now with this update, my guess is that instead of us saving time, we are gonna lose about a month with the update being released full and not halved (on top of the "normal" that we would need to wait anyway).

Im guessing this because Eva is a perfectionist... And because of that I know that she wont just save the complete Ian path and not touch it anymore , shes going to go back and forth between both and finding little things that just dont "look or fit right"... Then you add the extreme pressure of the fact that the patreons kindly didnt mind waiting for her quality even though they are waiting for 9 months for something new? Yeah, she will want every single thing to be perfect to "compensate", so yeah....

I really hope this is one of the million times Im wrong about something though *fingers crossed*

Like I said before: In my opinion, the increase in the amount of time between releases its just a symptom of Evas lack of confidence in the amazing dev that she is. When she realizes that MORE isnt necessarily BETTER, she is gonna shut up all her haters

Yes, yes, and yes again. My regards to DIK brother and monster slayer.
I agree with your criticism. This is very reasonable. Finally, there is a person in the thread who points out real problems. Aside from being a perfectionist, Eva has some writing issues, I think. And her self-doubt and desire to make the game perfect leads to the fact that she really listens to the opinions of the fans and corrects the slightest flaws in their opinion. This results in a delay.
Take DrPinkCake for example. An absolutely self-confident person who does not ask anyone's opinion - this is his game and he does as he wants. The development cycle is big too and we're getting 8 months into Episode 9 after Interlude (Halloween maybe) but the amount and quality of content is incredible.
I always welcome intelligent criticism like yours.
But what I stand against is the trolls and bullies who attack Eva, accuse her of being lazy, milking and constantly taking vacations. They think that a person is not entitled to rest because they want a free copy of the game right now. Terrible behaviour.

Isn't that, like, at least 50% of the players in BaDIK, myself included?

There are already three of us in the thread.

 

[sevensham]

what happen? this story delay for update for so long already?