VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.4] [Eva Kiss]

[bauman]

Personally I’m glad the game isn’t written to necessarily fit the preferences of “the average smut connoisseur”.

Writing-wise, ORS is as stereotypical as it gets because it shares many of the same character archetypes as GGGB and most smut games:

- the fat nerd: check
- the black guy with a big cock: check
- the blue-eyed ubermensch with a cold personality: check
- the bitchy pumpkin spice frappuccino-drinking blonde: check
- the shy girl: check
- Pauly D from Jersey Shore: check
- the boomer degenerate: check
etc.

I suspect having Axel as a protagonist would feel a lot more straightforward. He's meant to be incredibly attractive, he's got a natural, immediate charisma, and he's a hot shot photographer who owns a gigantic apartment, giving him an extremely easy way to get attractive women to come back to his apartment and strip down.

That's not how you set up memorable characters, though. Give Ian Axel's model and explore his struggles, personal problems, and insecurities despite his attractive physical attributes and superficial successes. Explore his frustrations of being unable to talk to girls despite his looks, driving a BMW, and being a perfect gentleman. Make Jeremy cry himself to sleep because he's feeling objectified by these drunk horny white girls who constantly try to get the pipe. After all, they know all black guys are packing and are willing to do anything. Or have Perry be a successful poonhound despite being an overweight, annoying alcoholic.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

Personally I’m glad the game isn’t written to necessarily fit the preferences of “the average smut connoisseur”. As long as every game does that (and to be honest, that’s what most games on here already seem to do), we’ll end up with a bunch of similar games, and creators who don’t write what they want or are good at.

I get the fascination with the “larger than life” protagonist. But for me it’s exactly their averageness that makes them interesting to control. Ian is insecure after his recent breakup and feels he’s going nowhere in his career, but he’s also a smart, creative, empathic, ambitious guy, who so far is also getting some rave reviews from the female cast for his skills in bed.

So we can go for a safe option like Holly, who’s already hopelessly in love with him. Or someone like Cindy: She’s far more high maintenance, which demands that we make sure Ian steps up his game and follows his dreams and ambitions. Or we can just go all in and try to have sex with as many women as possible, while potentially establishing a successful career as a writer or MMA fighter in the process.

I suspect having Axel as a protagonist would feel a lot more straightforward. He's meant to be incredibly attractive, he's got a natural, immediate charisma, and he's a hot shot photographer who owns a gigantic apartment, giving him an extremely easy way to get attractive women to come back to his apartment and strip down. As a protagonist he would've gotten some more character depth, but still. When we make a choice for Ian, it feels like we're choosing between two impulses that already exist in him as a character. With Axel I think it would be different—“have sex with as many women as possible” would already be the standard option before we'd start forming him through our choices. Which to be fair also sounds fun, but still something it's not difficult to find other games that do.

Guys... Lena and Ian are playable characters... They don't have set personalities; they are whatever you want them to be.

The point was about the way Ian looks, not how he acts because he acts depending on how the player controls him.

The issue was that you can play Ian as a Chad who has rough sex but his appearance wouldn't reflect that archetype/stereotype which lessens the impact.

 

[Samuel Hidayat]

A bit more muscular Ian (depending on stats) - would be amazing and quite reasonable

We might get muscular Ian during the MMA tournament.

Would be cool if Ian can choose to get "natty" muscular or "chicken and broccoli" muscular.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

or "chicken and broccoli" muscular.

I've never felt more called out in my life

 

[Samuel Hidayat]

I've never felt more called out in my life

So you're not a natty?

Hope you know what you're doing.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

So you're not a natty?

Hope you know what you're doing.

I am but whenever I tell people that they give me the "chicken and broccoli" line.

 

[Samuel Hidayat]

I am but whenever I tell people that they give me the "chicken and broccoli" line.

Don't forget horsemeat diet.

 

[Doppelgang]

Writing-wise, ORS is as stereotypical as it gets because it shares many of the same character archetypes as GGGB and most smut games:

- the fat nerd: check
- the black guy with a big cock: check
- the blue-eyed ubermensch with a cold personality: check
- the bitchy pumpkin spice frappuccino-drinking blonde: check
- the shy girl: check
- Pauly D from Jersey Shore: check
- the boomer degenerate: check
etc.



That's not how you set up memorable characters, though. Give Ian Axel's model and explore his struggles, personal problems, and insecurities despite his attractive physical attributes and superficial successes. Explore his frustrations of being unable to talk to girls despite his looks, driving a BMW, and being a perfect gentleman. Make Jeremy cry himself to sleep because he's feeling objectified by these drunk horny white girls who constantly try to get the pipe. After all, they know all black guys are packing and are willing to do anything. Or have Perry be a successful poonhound despite being an overweight, annoying alcoholic.

Sure, the whole cast is based on very easily identifiable tropes that we also see in other games and everywhere in popular culture as a whole. But there's a difference between writing completely one-dimensional archetypes and basing the characters on those archetypes and then expand on them. That's the thing I think Eva does better than most other comparable developers (not that the competition is particularly tough). Even the most one-dimensional of them all, Jeremy, offers something more because of how Eva ties the paths together and puts him in the middle of it. They're archetypes, but with some extra flavour, and they become more interesting because they're put in situations that are less straightforward than “click this button to go to sex scene” / “click this button to skip sex scene”.

And either way it's exactly Axel's blue-eyed übermensch-ness that in my view makes him less interesting in the role as a protagonist. Though I agree that an Axel with Ian's insecurities would be an interesting character, because he wouldn't be one-dimensional. If we're just starting with Axel's physics, and create a new character from that, it's true he could've become more suited as a protagonist.

Also, hot dudes can obviously struggle just as much as not-so-hot dudes can; but with the limits that exist in the archetype based universes of smut games, I think it would be hard to write a version of Axel that didn't in some way feel destined for success. I think Ian is above average in most respects, but he is close enough to average that it feels like the direction he’s taking is actually in his/our hands.

Guys... Lena and Ian are playable characters... They don't have set personalities; they are whatever you want them to be.

The point was about the way Ian looks, not how he acts because he acts depending on how the player controls him.

The issue was that you can play Ian as a Chad who has rough sex but his appearance wouldn't reflect that archetype/stereotype which lessens the impact.

I disagree that they're whatever we want them to be. Ashley in GGGB was a blank slate, and could be whatever we wanted. Lena and Ian can only be it step by step and within the limits their starting characters allow.

It's completely fair to ideally want an Ian who's more of an alpha archetype. That's just personal preferences. My point is that in general, irrespective if it's about their character or their looks, it's good that the characters aren't just a representation of one specific trope. And I think that’s especially valid when it comes to something like sexual preferences. Within smut game archetypes it’s one particular type of man who enjoys rough sex. In real life it can be anyone. His appearance doesn’t fit with the dominant sexual man archetype, but it’s certainly believable if we think of Ian as a person, not just an archetype.

 

[Bishop Robert]

Writing-wise, ORS is as stereotypical as it gets because it shares many of the same character archetypes as GGGB and most smut games:

- the fat nerd: check
- the black guy with a big cock: check
- the blue-eyed ubermensch with a cold personality: check
- the bitchy pumpkin spice frappuccino-drinking blonde: check
- the shy girl: check
- Pauly D from Jersey Shore: check
- the boomer degenerate: check
etc.

If only we had elderly man.

Way more spice with that route.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

Make Jeremy cry himself to sleep because he's feeling objectified by these drunk horny white girls who constantly try to get the pipe.

lol. Reminds me of this, except with pussy instead of money. Poor soul.

 

[alisida]

6 months for an update....

 

[Chemish]

Did one of the proposed lust outfits for Lena win the Patreon poll, or is one leading?

 

[JohnnyKiss]

I disagree that they're whatever we want them to be

Well, you can disagree all you want, it still won't change the fact that they are blank slates.

 

[Doppelgang]

Well, you can disagree all you want, it still won't change the fact that they are blank slates.

Okay, let me rephrase that then: You’re wrong. I see you cut out the part where I explain it, and don’t offer any arguments yourself for why they’re blank slates.

Playing as a character with very little and a very generic background history (like Ashley) gives different possibilities and limitations than when they do in fact have a pretty well developed background history (Ian and Lena). That background and their existing character traits can take them in vastly different directions, depending on which of their *existing*, conflicting character traits you choose to focus on (Lena works three jobs, takes care of her parents, and acts as emotional support and/or as a diplomat for her friends … but she’s also a nymphomaniac). But that still doesn’t make them blank slates.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

Okay, let me rephrase that then: You’re wrong. I see you cut out the part where I explain it, and don’t offer any arguments yourself for why they’re blank slates.

Playing as a character with very little and a very generic background history (like Ashley) gives different possibilities and limitations than when they do in fact have a pretty well developed background history (Ian and Lena). That background and their existing character traits can take them in vastly different directions, depending on which of their *existing*, conflicting character traits you choose to focus on (Lena works three jobs, takes care of her parents, and acts as emotional support and/or as a diplomat for her friends … but she’s also a nymphomaniac). But that still doesn’t make them blank slates.

It's pretty simple; neither of them have set personalities.

You can make Ian a writer of different genres, an MMA fighter or a Judo fighter, he can be a "nice guy" that doesn't cheat on his girlfriend or someone who sleeps around like a "Chad", he can be someone who trains a lot so he can have stamina for hours while having sex or someone who can't get it up because he is still insecure over his break-up and etc. You get the point.

Same for Lean. She can be an inspiring musician, a model, waitress, she can be mean or nice to random people in the gym, she can be obsessed with her ex and eventually fall back into his clutches or stay strong and move forward.

This is a choice-based game, those stats like "Wisdom", "Lust", "Charisma" and whatnot are there precisely for this very reason; for you to shape these two the way you want them to be.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

Okay, let me rephrase that then: You’re wrong. I see you cut out the part where I explain it, and don’t offer any arguments yourself for why they’re blank slates.

Playing as a character with very little and a very generic background history (like Ashley) gives different possibilities and limitations than when they do in fact have a pretty well developed background history (Ian and Lena). That background and their existing character traits can take them in vastly different directions, depending on which of their *existing*, conflicting character traits you choose to focus on (Lena works three jobs, takes care of her parents, and acts as emotional support and/or as a diplomat for her friends … but she’s also a nymphomaniac). But that still doesn’t make them blank slates.

Agreed. They're malleable by design. But they come into the game with their own distinct personalities, wounds and problems already. We just get to choose which of several paths they take and which potential aspects, lying dormant in themselves, they grow into. Just like IRL where life decisions can have a very strong impact on one's future path and self. But these aren't blank slates and anyone who thinks they are either doesn't know what the term means or is using it incorrectly. Ashley was much more of a blank slate form, at least for all intents and purposes game-design-wise, though not 100%.
Innocent, inexperienced and devoid of much of any unique history.

 

[ExplainLikeImForeign]

The hell happened to the Evakiss? Are they taking a break or did covid hit hard?

 

[Samuel Hidayat]

If only we had elderly man.

Way more spice with that route.

I think Ed fits the bill. Not sure if it's going to lead to anything/anywhere tho.

 

[Bishop Robert]

I think Ed fits the bill. Not sure if it's going to lead to anything/anywhere tho.

Too young but still a good addition.

 

[RoboticCatDogHybrid]

The hell happened to the Evakiss? Are they taking a break or did covid hit hard?

A bad case of the lazytitis my bro, but think we'll get the new chapter by December.