VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.6] [Eva Kiss]

[xgrotesc]

The thing is, the game is already telling this exact story for Lena. So i can see how some people might not be all that enamored with suddenly getting more of the same. But then on the other hand this shoe was clearly going to drop from day one, so no one can really say they weren't given time to brace for it.

While I can't disagree with you on this point, I can still say it was poorly handed. I just got to the end of the update with what is supposed to be a cliffhanger and my thoughts were "I don't really give a fuck about this to be honest". And the main reason is that there's almost no built tension around Gillian to make this moment feel like a big deal.

For example, if at some point Ian had already opened up a bit to Lena about his previously relationship and how it damaged him for a while, there would be something more for me to care about. If he also tried to put up a front saying he was now over it, that woud also add more tension to this, because now we would see that when he gets to see Gillian he's flustered. Now we know that when the next episode drops Lena will piece things together and see that something is off between what she's been told by Ian regarding his feelings for this girl and the actual true. Now we get to feel some anxiety from this moment while waiting to see how Ian will handle this moving forward. But we don't get much of that. Gillian as few references so far and her potential impact hasn't been built or developed properly. Plus, I already saw from Lena's side the story of the former relationship from which Ian had basicly no information. I already saw that shoe drop, now I'm just getting more of the same, but with least context. At least we got to know Axel before that, we saw him building tension with Lena, so when things started going down with them, it made things a lot more interesting because we were already invested in this storyline, which is not something I can say on Gillian's side.

The game so far made us little to zero invested in her and if we don't get that, the actual real way to make this more impactful was if never got see a picture of her and probably didn't even knew her name. Eva could very well have all Ian's circle refer to Gillian up until now as "she who's not to be named" and that simple fact would make this moment so much more impactful, because now it would leave us wondering who's this person that Ian just ran into. Obviously most of us would assume pretty quickly who she is, but still that very small lingering doubt is what actually could make this a nice cliffhanger and why it actually felt so underhelming for me and for a lot of other people.

 

[Chuck_Bass]

Stan's outburst is just meh... Completely uncalled and unprovoked and the way his attitude switches suddenly it's just cringy.

Typical "nice guy" act in my eyes. I had my suspicions about how It's going to turn out(last chapter he was acting to simpish) and I got my confirmation. I hoped I was wrong about Stan and he was not a full-blown creep/nice guy but it is what it is.

 

[ffive]

But poorly implemented. Ian can solve this problem in the early game by using a Willn point and deleting her photos.

The thing is, Ian doesn't solve the problem simply deleting the photos. At best he reduces the impact somewhat, but it is clear from his overall behavior the breakup has scarred him very deep and he's still only just starting to recover from it.

I also think it's way to early to declare how things will unfold -- we have a cliffhanger (of) accidental meeting, but we have yet to see Ian's actual reaction(s) to it after the initial surprise. Maybe deleting the photos is going to have similar effect it does on Lena's side, where it's a step needed to shield her from relapsing into lusting after Axel. That part of the game isn't coded yet.

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

I want to ask, did everyone who was nice to Stan get his weird declaration of love? If so, then I'm not at all surprised. This guy has been a creepy incel and will remain so. Eva doesn't like this character, so I doubt he will end up with something good.

Spoiler: Creepy Stan

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[ffive]

While I can't disagree with you on this point, I can still say it was poorly handed. I just got to the end of the update with what is supposed to be a cliffhanger and my thoughts were "I don't really give a fuck about this to be honest". And the main reason is that there's almost no built tension around Gillian to make this moment feel like a big deal.

I suspect it has a lot to do with people having played the parts where Gillian appears literally years ago, when the episodes with her were released. Her presence and tension surrounding it is quite stronger when you've just played the whole game in one (or few) sittings, and Ian's recollections and dream of her are fresh on your mind.

 

[Chuck_Bass]

I want to ask, did everyone who was nice to Stan get his weird declaration of love? If so, then I'm not at all surprised. This guy has been a creepy incel and will remain so. Eva doesn't like this character, so I doubt he will end up with something good.

Spoiler: Creepy Stan

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True, I had my suspicions about how his character is going to develop and it's a shame I was right :\

 

[xgrotesc]

Typical "nice guy" act in my eyes. I had my suspicions about how It's going to turn out(last chapter he was acting to simpish) and I got my confirmation. I hoped I was wrong about Stan and he was not a full-blown creep/nice guy but it is what it is.

Yes, but it's the sudden switch that makes this not believable. I've known my fair share of Stan's over the years and this is not how they switch. The usual path is to at first try to be understanding and accepting of the other person's decision and try to play it cool for a while, but on the inside there's actual some resentment building which ultimately starts making them to slowly act out of character and making that switch and eventually lash out at the person. But even then it's not to this dimension. We all have to understand that Stan is a full blown introvert, so his lashing out would probably be a ot more subtle and in a way it could actually also be meaner then this. Instead he just comes out as childish, which isn't something I can actually say from the few Stan's I've met in my life.

 

[ffive]

I want to ask, did everyone who was nice to Stan get his weird declaration of love?

The declaration hinges on having good relationship with Stan, yes. But probably worth to keep on mind that currently the player has no option to pick the "Let's discuss this" branch which allows Lena to either let him down gently or (tentatively) accept his feelings. So the impression he creates can be pretty skewed.

 

[Chuck_Bass]

Yes, but it's the sudden switch that makes this not believable. I've known my fair share of Stan's over the years and this is not how they switch. The usual path is to at first try to be understanding and accepting of the other person's decision and try to play it cool for a while, but on the inside there's actual some resentment building which ultimately starts making them to slowly act out of character and making that switch and eventually lash out at the person. But even then it's not to this dimension. We all have to understand that Stan is a full blown introvert, so his lashing out would probably be a ot more subtle and in a way it could actually also be meaner then this. Instead he just comes out as childish, which isn't something I can actually say from the few Stan's I've met in my life.

You should visit the r/nice guys Reddit. You will find plenty of examples like this one.

 

[xgrotesc]

I suspect it has a lot to do with people having played the parts where Gillian appears literally years ago, when the episodes with her were released. Her presence and tension surrounding it is quite stronger when you've just played the whole game in one (or few) sittings, and Ian's recollections and dream of her are fresh on your mind.

Would be true, but if you remember correctly we all had to start a new game on this last episode, so all of that it's still pretty fresh in my mind. Obviously not all have to feel the same way as me, but seeing others having the same feeling as I have makes me think that other people also felt that this wasn't really well developped and there was not enough tension to make this as impactful as it is supposed to come across.

 

[xgrotesc]

You should visit the r/nice guys Reddit. You will find plenty of examples like this one.

Not really interested in checking that to be honest, but anyway, I'll take your word on that one.

Still from a story point of view, I still feel like this could've been handled very differently and made the story more interesting, even if the outcome would end up being the same.

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

True, I had my suspicions about how his character is going to develop and it's a shame I was right :\

I finally agree with you on some points, thanks Stan. In general, in any fiction there are characters that disgust the majority, like Robert for example. But Eva may want that character to be Stan, despite the whining of some of the audience who see themselves in Stan and feel sympathy for him.

The declaration hinges on having good relationship with Stan, yes. But probably worth to keep on mind that currently the player has no option to pick the "Let's discuss this" branch which allows Lena to either let him down gently or (tentatively) accept his feelings. So the impression he creates can be pretty skewed.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the best way out is to be neutral towards Stan in the game and avoid him as much as possible. Away from dangerous drama, because I remember that in GGGB Ashley could die before the end of the game.

 

[ffive]

Would be true, but if you remember correctly we all had to start a new game on this last episode, so all of that it's still pretty fresh in my mind.

That still makes the impressions a few months old, and that's generously presuming people didn't just hold down Ctrl to skip through bits they've already played in the previous iteration.

Obviously not all have to feel the same way as me, but seeing others having the same feeling as I have makes me think that other people also felt that this wasn't really well developped and there was not enough tension to make this as impactful as it is supposed to come across.

I have severe doubts whether this is something that ever can be "well developed" and it hinges more on the player's initial impression of the character than anything -- case in point, Being a DIK has devoted entire episode to establish importance of "returning ex". It didn't stop some people from loudly and repeatedly declaring how they just don't care about the character because they've already settled on some other option.

(then, when the said ex actually showed up and could be interacted with it turned out that, surprise surprise, some of these people found their lack of interest highly premature)

 

[Anti-Toxic Med]

it's chapter 11 already?
that's pretty fast...

 

[Chuck_Bass]

I finally agree with you on some points, thanks Stan. In general, in any fiction there are characters that disgust the majority, like Robert for example. But Eva may want that character to be Stan, despite the whining of some of the audience who see themselves in Stan and feel sympathy for him.

Well, we agree about Robert too, the guy got zero personality and if was 60 pounds heavier he would probably be a Stan too.

 

[ffive]

I'm coming to the conclusion that the best way out is to be neutral towards Stan in the game and avoid him as much as possible. Away from dangerous drama, because I remember that in GGGB Ashley could die before the end of the game.

That's how Lena has interacted with Stan in my game -- she was polite with him early on and invited him to exhibition. But when he started to display incel vibes right afterwards she promptly stopped him (making earlier mistake with Ed has helped in this regard, in the sense it was a lesson well learnt) and then avoided to pick sides in his fights with Louise. So they're acquaintances, he's grateful Lena is paying her rent, but things don't develop into any awkward territory.

Of course, if someone plays the game specifically for maximum drama then incel Stan is a just perfect toy to play with. :v

 

[Hakunak]

I wish endings of the stan or ed route was a wedding with pregnant lena

 

[ffive]

I wish endings of the stan or ed route was a wedding with pregnant lena

Ed isn't getting any content, much less a route.

And Stan would need to learn not to blow his load immediately in order to make anyone pregnant.

 

[Hakunak]

Ed isn't getting any content, much less a route.

And Stan would need to learn not to blow his load immediately in order to make anyone pregnant.

Yes, I know. just wish

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Well, we agree about Robert too, the guy got zero personality and if was 60 pounds heavier he would probably be a Stan too.

Yeah, Robert is typical wannabe-alpha, although in reality he is a loser and shows this by his frustrated behavior when he is refused.

That's how Lena has interacted with Stan in my game -- she was polite with him early on and invited him to exhibition. But when he started to display incel vibes right afterwards she promptly stopped him (making earlier mistake with Ed has helped in this regard, in the sense it was a lesson well learnt) and then avoided to pick sides in his fights with Louise. So they're acquaintances, he's grateful Lena is paying her rent, but things don't develop into any awkward territory.

Of course, if someone plays the game specifically for maximum drama then incel Stan is a just perfect toy to play with. :v

At least Ed isn't as creepy as Stan. Just an aging man who missed his youth and seeing a hot girl in him wakes up male instincts. Ed is harmless, I'm not sure about Stan.