VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.13.3.6] [Eva Kiss]

[dontcarewhateverno]

The issue with Ian when it comes to "rough sex" is his appearance. Even if he can have it with Lena, like the others have mentioned, he lacks the physique for it. I mentioned few months ago that Ian is designed to be "the most average man alive" to encompass the broadest range of the player base.

He is the average height (5' 8), he is white, 20-something, has brown hair, neither skinny nor fat nor muscular; and while you can play the game to make him a "Chad" he still lacks the appearance that people usually associate with Chads. That's why Axel, Mike and Jeremy are more appropriate since they are either muscular or muscular and tall.

It would be nice if Ian could eventually become more muscular if you make him train enough but that would mean every sex scene he is in would need to be drawn twice (one with regular Ian and one with muscular Ian) and I think we all know that means just more work for the Dev.

Then again, GGGB had Ashley change her appearance a lot throughout the game so I wouldn't count this opportunity out. I would definitely like to see it implemented in the game. Would definitely raise my interest in Ian's scenes by a lot.

I almost agree. But... lol, I didn't expect I'd want to quote Jduk here. You can get past appearance with attitude. Ian could look like his current self or even like a big fat fuck. But if he's got the right skeezy, dominant attitude, he could make for some dynamite sex scenes. The important point is that the attitude, that confidence, that dirty mind, the power, has got to be real. Genuine. Not forced. I don't see a "dominant" Ian in this game being anything but a wanna-be though, no matter what path you choose. At least thus far. It's always going to be forced or a bit of play-acting. If there's an option for him to become a genuinely skeezier Seymour by the end of the game though, maybe.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

IMO, it's the main thing that handicaps ORS from being more popular than it is. Lena & Ian are too average, too vanilla, and too close to real life. Especially Ian. Players who like to self-insert as the protagonists in smut games love characters that are 'bigger than life.' Swap Ian with Axel or Jeremy and maybe Lena with Cindy as the main characters, and I bet this game takes off to the next level. You can probably argue that even the fucking bouncer at the club, with some bare-bones character development, would be a better pick than Ian as the main character in a porn game in the eyes of the average smut connoisseur.

I'd disagree there. This is what some players want. Other players who like to self-insert prefer an average guy who is actually average (or, well, sometimes less than average with one much larger than average appendage, as in the case of STS). I would not be interested at all in playing any of those male characters. There's often not much rhyme or reason as to what makes a game successful, beyond a low threshold of quality a game must pass. But the four biggest factors I've seen beyond that low quality bar that generally give the dev a better shot at a top spot are: Is it a male-mc-only game? Is there a harem involved? Is the male a "young man" of college age? Has this dev been around for 5+ years, building up a fanbase since before there was so much competition? Those four factors tend to add to a game's chances of being a top money-maker, whether I care for them or not (I either don't like or don't care about any of those specifics, personally). More often due to the demographics of a user looking for an adult VN & willing to spend money on it.

Plus, given all the amateur/indie adult VN games with a full-time dev, ORS is still up there as one of the most popular, despite not having some of those qualities. Doing a few things differently has helped Eva stand out from the pack, with the quality of her work being a very large factor as well. (Creating the first actually good F-MC alternative game helped too, of course, I'm sure. Even though it'll never surpass a top-spot M-MC harem sort of VN). While hitting the right demographic is required for a top-spot, there is so much shit out there vying for that same demog that a creator also runs a greater risk of languishing in obscurity going that route.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

I almost agree. But... lol, I didn't expect I'd want to quote Jduk here. You can get past appearance with attitude. Ian could look like his current self or even like a big fat fuck. But if he's got the right skeezy, dominant attitude, he could make for some dynamite sex scenes. The important point is that the attitude, that confidence, that dirty mind, the power, has got to be real. Genuine. Not forced. I don't see a "dominant" Ian in this game being anything but a wanna-be though, no matter what path you choose. At least thus far. It's always going to be forced or a bit of play-acting. If there's an option for him to become a genuinely skeezier Seymour by the end of the game though, maybe.

I'll quote a person I know who said: "Big Dick is useless if you don't know how to use it... but a small dick is useless anyway"

It's the same for Ian. Even if he can act like a confident Chad that has rough sex his appearance doesn't reflect that which is why so many people prefer Mike, Axel and Jeremy.

Ian is also a rather blank slate, the playable character, on which you imprint characteristics you want him to have so I'm sure he can be a Chad, Sleezer or a Stan.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

I'll quote a person I know who said: "Big Dick is useless if you don't know how to use it... but a small dick is useless anyway"

It's the same for Ian. Even if he can act like a confident Chad that has rough sex his appearance doesn't reflect that which is why so many people prefer Mike, Axel and Jeremy.

Ian is also a rather blank slate, the playable character, on which you imprint characteristics you want him to have so I'm sure he can be a Chad, Sleezer or a Stan.

I just don't currently buy the "act", blank slate or not. And we really don't have any stats for "so many". I can say "more prefer average guy" and you can say the opposite, but that's really all just best guesses as the only poll so far has been for favorite male non-mc character. Which Stan did place above either most or all characters (if I remember right), likely at least partially due to that self-insert or endearing relatability factor with some users.

Regardless, I prefer sex scenes with some other male characters in this game, but still prefer playing as Ian, if that makes sense. Playing as either Ed or Seymour may be fun too. But I have 0% interest in playing as Axel, Jeremy or Mike. I'm sure many others would say the same, but it's all just best guesses on what the majority preference is, really.

As for the physical though, remember the film Secretary. James Spader isn't exactly a physical Adonis. But he surely splooshed a generation of panties with that movie. Attitude goes a long way.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

I just don't currently buy the "act", blank slate or not. And we really don't have any stats for "so many". I can say "more prefer average guy" and you can say the opposite, but that's really all just best guesses as the only poll so far has been for favorite male non-mc character. Which Stan did place above either most or all characters (if I remember right), likely at least partially due to that self-insert or endearing relatability factor with some users.

Regardless, I prefer sex scenes with some other male characters in this game, but still prefer playing as Ian, if that makes sense. Playing as either Ed or Seymour may be fun too. But I have 0% interest in playing as Axel, Jeremy or Mike. I'm sure many others would say the same, but it's all just best guesses on what the majority preference is, really.

As for the physical though, remember the film Secretary. James Spader isn't exactly a physical Adonis. But he surely splooshed a generation of panties with that movie. Attitude goes a long way.

James Spader is a handsome motherfucker with a voice of a God, though.

I don't really care about playing as Ian, unless it is to cuck Wade or Perry, so I mostly care only about Lena since she can have sex with guys I relate more to.

But if Ian can get buff... now that's another story...

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

James Spader is a handsome motherfucker with a voice of a God, though.

I don't really care about playing as Ian, unless it is to cuck Wade or Perry, so I mostly care only about Lena since she can have sex with guys I relate more to.

But if Ian can get buff... now that's another story...

Sure. It's all about preferences, honestly. I think that's part of Eva's success. Though the main characters will always basically look the same, except for some cosmetic changes (or the big tits for Ashley in GGGB), the amount of choices you can make in how you play your character(s) draws in a lot of users, as much as it might not grab as many of the largest demographic of paying porn-game players (which I assume are out-of-shape, late teens/early-20's male shut-ins, at least based on STS success).

I personally relate to Wade more, or a different-universe Wade who appreciates what he has a bit more. IMO, he'd also be a very interesting MC, playing as the character to get him out of his slump. IMO, he's one of the better-written characters in the game, despite all the hate for him.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

Sure. It's all about preferences, honestly. I think that's part of Eva's success. Though the main characters will always basically look the same, except for some cosmetic changes (or the big tits for Ashley in GGGB), the amount of choices you can make in how you play your character(s) draws in a lot of users, as much as it might not grab as many of the largest demographic of paying porn-game players (which I assume are out-of-shape, late teens/early-20's male shut-ins, at least based on STS success).

I personally relate to Wade more, or a different-universe Wade who appreciates what he has a bit more. IMO, he'd also be a very interesting MC, playing as the character to get him out of his slump. IMO, he's one of the better-written characters in the game, despite all the hate for him.

Wade is the quintessential protagonist of those movies from the 80s where the loser nerd gets the hot girl in the end. Eva certainly knows what she is doing when creating these characters as the popular writing archetypes.

If you ever read Ready Player One, the protagonist of the book starts off as an out of shape gamer who over the course of the game loses the weight and gets a hot girlfriend.

It's pretty similar to Wade.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

Wade is the quitessential protagonist of those movies from the 80s where the loser nerd gets the hot girl in the end. Eva certainly knows what she is doing when creating these characters as the popular writing archetypes.

If you ever read *Ready Player One*, the protagonist of the book starts off as an out of shape gamer who over the course of the game loses the weight and gets a hot girlfriend.

It's pretty similar to Wade.

Yep. I have that same impression of Wade... well, except for the loser nerd part. "Loser nerd" in the same way Holly would've played "ugly girl" in the same movie until the ending when she ditches the glasses. Wade as underdog protag? Absolutely. But he's got more of a Bruce Campbell vibe to me, or Jeremy Piven in PCU, albeit in a different situation where he's in a true life slump. I mean, he had his shit together when he met Cindy, at least. And IMO, I detect him as being a generally cool guy who is just overcast in attitude based on the slump he's in. Likely from something or other that happened off-screen before game start to get him that way. Although he's clearly based on an otherwise attractive model too, despite the current beer-belly and generally out-of-shape body. He has more attitude basically, where Ian seems more base-character Micky Mouse to me, regardless of how you play him to pose as someone else.

 

[Antera]

Can Ian bang Ivy ?

 

[Chemish]

Can Ian bang Ivy ?

Not yet.

 

[JoJoPool]

The issue with Ian when it comes to "rough sex" is his appearance. Even if he can have it with Lena, like the others have mentioned, he lacks the physique for it. I mentioned few months ago that Ian is designed to be "the most average man alive" to encompass the broadest range of the player base.

He is the average height (5' 8), he is white, 20-something, has brown hair, neither skinny nor fat nor muscular; and while you can play the game to make him a "Chad" he still lacks the appearance that people usually associate with Chads. That's why Axel, Mike and Jeremy are more appropriate since they are either muscular or muscular and tall.

It would be nice if Ian could eventually become more muscular if you make him train enough but that would mean every sex scene he is in would need to be drawn twice (one with regular Ian and one with muscular Ian) and I think we all know that means just more work for the Dev.

Then again, GGGB had Ashley change her appearance a lot throughout the game so I wouldn't count this opportunity out. I would definitely like to see it implemented in the game. Would definitely raise my interest in Ian's scenes by a lot.

Ian's not so bad to be honest he's got a solid personality, If i were a girl I'd consider a serious relationship with him.. he just needs to work on his look and style, and maybe it will happen... Ashley's appearance changed (for the worse) in GGGB you said so yourself.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

Ian's not so bad to be honest he's got a solid personality, If i were a girl I'd consider a serious relationship with him.. he just needs to work on his look and style, and maybe it will happen... Ashley's appearance changed (for the worse) in GGGB you said so yourself.

It's not about personality or whatnot, It's just that Ian doesn't fulfil the (physical) image people have about Chads.

Also, Ian's personality depends on the player. He can be whatever you want him to be.

 

[Bishop Robert]

Anyways let's get more scenes besides the typical hot dudes for Lena yeah?

 

[JoJoPool]

It's not about personality or whatnot, It's just that Ian doesn't fulfil the (physical) image people have about Chads.

Also, Ian's personality depends on the player. He can be whatever you want him to be.

You're right, I forgot that Ian's type of character depends on the player... I was focused on "my" Ian.

 

[JoJoPool]

Anyways let's get more scenes besides the typical hot dudes for Lena yeah?

Amen ! I wish Stan gets a piece of Lena in the upcoming update.

 

[JohnnyKiss]

You're right, I forgot that Ian's type of character depends on the player... I was focused on "my" Ian.

A lot of people seem to make that mistake

 

[Nifferman]

The issue with Ian when it comes to "rough sex" is his appearance. Even if he can have it with Lena, like the others have mentioned, he lacks the physique for it. I mentioned few months ago that Ian is designed to be "the most average man alive" to encompass the broadest range of the player base.

He is the average height (5' 8), he is white, 20-something, has brown hair, neither skinny nor fat nor muscular; and while you can play the game to make him a "Chad" he still lacks the appearance that people usually associate with Chads. That's why Axel, Mike and Jeremy are more appropriate since they are either muscular or muscular and tall.

It would be nice if Ian could eventually become more muscular if you make him train enough but that would mean every sex scene he is in would need to be drawn twice (one with regular Ian and one with muscular Ian) and I think we all know that means just more work for the Dev.

Then again, GGGB had Ashley change her appearance a lot throughout the game so I wouldn't count this opportunity out. I would definitely like to see it implemented in the game. Would definitely raise my interest in Ian's scenes by a lot.

I agree with physical appearance butWhat does ones height have to do with them being Chad thou he is 5'9 and is bigger than most people in-game so he can be Chad

 

[aris666]

It would be nice if Ian could eventually become more muscular if you make him train enough but that would mean every sex scene he is in would need to be drawn twice (one with regular Ian and one with muscular Ian) and I think we all know that means just more work for the Dev.

A bit more muscular Ian (depending on stats) - would be amazing and quite reasonable

 

[Doppelgang]

IMO, it's the main thing that handicaps ORS from being more popular than it is. Lena & Ian are too average, too vanilla, and too close to real life. Especially Ian. Players who like to self-insert as the protagonists in smut games love characters that are 'bigger than life.' Swap Ian with Axel or Jeremy and maybe Lena with Cindy as the main characters, and I bet this game takes off to the next level. You can probably argue that even the fucking bouncer at the club, with some bare-bones character development, would be a better pick than Ian as the main character in a porn game in the eyes of the average smut connoisseur.

Personally I’m glad the game isn’t written to necessarily fit the preferences of “the average smut connoisseur”. As long as every game does that (and to be honest, that’s what most games on here already seem to do), we’ll end up with a bunch of similar games, and creators who don’t write what they want or are good at.

I get the fascination with the “larger than life” protagonist. But for me it’s exactly their averageness that makes them interesting to control. Ian is insecure after his recent breakup and feels he’s going nowhere in his career, but he’s also a smart, creative, empathic, ambitious guy, who so far is also getting some rave reviews from the female cast for his skills in bed.

So we can go for a safe option like Holly, who’s already hopelessly in love with him. Or someone like Cindy: She’s far more high maintenance, which demands that we make sure Ian steps up his game and follows his dreams and ambitions. Or we can just go all in and try to have sex with as many women as possible, while potentially establishing a successful career as a writer or MMA fighter in the process.

I suspect having Axel as a protagonist would feel a lot more straightforward. He's meant to be incredibly attractive, he's got a natural, immediate charisma, and he's a hot shot photographer who owns a gigantic apartment, giving him an extremely easy way to get attractive women to come back to his apartment and strip down. As a protagonist he would've gotten some more character depth, but still. When we make a choice for Ian, it feels like we're choosing between two impulses that already exist in him as a character. With Axel I think it would be different—“have sex with as many women as possible” would already be the standard option before we'd start forming him through our choices. Which to be fair also sounds fun, but still something it's not difficult to find other games that do.

 

[bauman]

Personally I’m glad the game isn’t written to necessarily fit the preferences of “the average smut connoisseur”.

Writing-wise, ORS is as stereotypical as it gets because it shares many of the same character archetypes as GGGB and most smut games:

- the fat nerd: check
- the black guy with a big cock: check
- the blue-eyed ubermensch with a cold personality: check
- the bitchy pumpkin spice frappuccino-drinking blonde: check
- the shy girl: check
- Pauly D from Jersey Shore: check
- the boomer degenerate: check
etc.

I suspect having Axel as a protagonist would feel a lot more straightforward. He's meant to be incredibly attractive, he's got a natural, immediate charisma, and he's a hot shot photographer who owns a gigantic apartment, giving him an extremely easy way to get attractive women to come back to his apartment and strip down.

That's not how you set up memorable characters, though. Give Ian Axel's model and explore his struggles, personal problems, and insecurities despite his attractive physical attributes and superficial successes. Explore his frustrations of being unable to talk to girls despite his looks, driving a BMW, and being a perfect gentleman. Make Jeremy cry himself to sleep because he's feeling objectified by these drunk horny white girls who constantly try to get the pipe. After all, they know all black guys are packing and are willing to do anything. Or have Perry be a successful poonhound despite being an overweight, annoying alcoholic.