VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.14.1.4 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[ffive]

Wade is in Ivy's league simply for dating Cindy who is above Ivy's league (proven by Wildcats)

Two points here: One, Cindy was selected over Ivy for Wildcats because they specifically wanted a new face, something an established model like Ivy simply isn't. It doesn't mean Cindy is above Ivy's league, merely that there's one point where she has advantage (but the reverse side of this is, she's at disadvantage if the situation was reversed)

And two, if Cindy's attraction is supposed to prove anything, then it maybe shows that Wade was in Ivy's league. Considering Cindy has currently very serious doubts whether she wants to have anything to do with him anymore.

 

[cho'gall]

when a game is completed it says in the header of the thread. So no, it is not completed. You will know when it is completed because you will see in blue, the tag completed, beside the tags - VN/Renpy/Completed. It is so easy to know that you don't even need to deep dive, just look up the header of the game thread.

cheers

 

[ugo98]

in gallery there is a scene with billy and lena in nightclub, how could see that?

 

[BloodyMares]

but this dosent make sens if ian starts as a normal guy and than has his fitness jurney and than beaing more like axel i would not call that corruption at all it seems like for you as long as a cheracter change different from his starting point it is considert corruption. Which I would definitly not agree with.

Not just different but has a more relaxed view on morality: feeling neutral or positive about promiscuity / obsessed with a certain fetish / cheating (but not necessarily) / willing to betray his ideals for temptation. Basically willing to do something that he would either criticize other people for or at least be worried for them at the start of the game. For example, he can joke about Perry being a voyeur (when he says he's okay just looking at Cherry without making a move on her), meaning that he thinks that voyeurism is a bit weird and probably shameful if it's with a girl you like. And yet, when Jeremy sends him photos of Alison being naughty, his lust overcomes him and he himself becomes a voyeur. That is the obvious example of corruption because Ian feels guilty pleasure about Jeremy sending pics of Alison without her permission.

And yes, if Ian starts acting like a selfish asshole (and he considers Axel to be a selfish asshole), then it's corruption of Ian. Now, if he simply becomes a player but is open and respectful about it, accepting rejections and not pushing anybody, and not acting jealous towards girls he sleeps with, then I wouldn't call it corruption because while he'd be a player, yes, he'd be a morally responsible player who doesn't hurt anybody with his actions (including his friends who might have a crush on said girls, like Emma). It's just evolution of Ian who wants to be more confident and doesn't want to hurt himself with Gillian 2.0.

I think its very unlikly if a cheracters that is sexually corrupted and is very lustful and keeps seeking more and more and more sexual kicks that they stay loyal at all because their lust and desires already took over them this is why its called corruption because there primal instinct for pleasure completly took control over their Brain ,logical thinking, decision making and love feelings thats why I said corruption and ntr kinda goes hand in hand if in a realationship.

A corrupted person in a relationship might want to corrupt their partner, too, so they can both enjoy mindless sex and various debaucheries, be it via swinging or open relationship or a cuckold lifestyle. A corrupted individual doesn't mean 100% selfish individual without any integrity. They can still love their partner, but want sexual freedom, too. And if their partner doesn't share their view and acts jealous, they can break up (or take a break like Cindy did with Wade).

I have never denied that change isn't a prerequisite of corruption, I have only argued that not all change (and so not all influence) is corruption. I think the core of our disagreement is that I attribute to the act of "corrupting" a degree of malice, or at the very least recklessness, it is not something someone can "innocently" be the culprit of. You on the other hand argue the opposite, that corruption is merely any influence that results in change, and so whoever has the most influence is always the "most guilty" of corrupting a person.

It is the argument of "culpability" vs "responsability", is someone that is unwittingly an accessory for a crime just as guilty as the actual criminal just because they were an essential part of the execution of said crime?

Okay, I hear where you're coming from. Obviously the actual criminals are guilty while others can share responsibility but not the blame, it's not even a discussion. I guess our difference lies in who we see as the criminal in this analogy. You think it's the person doing the corruption, but I see the person being corrupted as a future criminal on their villain arc (IF they end up doing bad / irresponsible things according to their own starting morality). And because the person is on their villain arc I just don't see much point in finding the person guilty for making them a criminal (aka "We live in a society"), criminals aren't always pressured or coerced to do the crime, they choose to act based on external influence and their internal justification but they can only blame themselves for making that choice to go through with the crime.

One last thing (it's too engaging ). If you think of a person doing the corrupting as a criminal it paints the person getting corrupted as an innocent victim which robs them of agency. They're a human being with their own agency and they're making a choice when they do bad or irresponsible things. Lena can't blame Seymour for making her cheat on Ian (the moral action here is either to break up with Ian or just be honest with him and explain her problem if he promises to keep it a secret) or blame Jeremy's dick for making her treat Louise like trash and gaslight her into becoming a cuckquean. Just like Jeremy can't blame Lena for making him a bad friend to Ian or poor boyfriend to Louise if he can't man up to reject her and do the right thing. Just like Ian can't blame Cindy for being sexy or Wade for being a bad boyfriend or Axel for making his moves on her if he ends up banging Cindy and betraying Wade. Well, they can but it just wouldn't be mature or convincing.

 

[BloodyMares]

Cindy was selected over Ivy for Wildcats because they specifically wanted a new face, something an established model like Ivy simply isn't

Ivy and Lena aren't established models. They're amateur insta-models (Peoplegram models), they don't work for any agency and very few people know about them. Cindy was selected because her modeling is more sensual and artistic, plus her beauty is all natural (Ivy has fake tits, piercings and lots of tattoos and basically sells porn on her Stalkfap). Wildcats simply view Ivy as trashy based on her portfolio and I imagine Lena's entry was too late so they already made up her mind about Cindy when Axel presented them Lena's portfolio (IF he really did that and didn't simply lie to Lena to make her pose for him some more).

In gallery there is a scene with billy and lena in nightclub, how could see that?

It was a mistake on Lara's part, Billy doesn't have a scene in the club, Ivy always snatches him away if Lena tries to dance with him.

 

[ugo98]

Ivy and Lena aren't established models. They're amateur insta-models (Peoplegram models), they don't work for any agency and very few people know about them. Cindy was selected because her modeling is more sensual and artistic, plus her beauty is all natural (Ivy has fake tits, piercings and lots of tattoos and basically sells porn on her Stalkfap). Wildcats simply view Ivy as trashy based on her portfolio and I imagine Lena's entry was too late so they already made up her mind about Cindy when Axel presented them Lena's portfolio (IF he really did that and didn't simply lie to Lena to make her pose for him some more).



It was a mistake on Lara's part, Billy doesn't have a scene in the club, Ivy always snatches him away if Lena tries to dance with him.

ah, i understand, thanks

 

[portrapoodle]

I've read multiple stories that featured different styles / ways of corruption. One stood out to me (and is my favorite) - where the good, moral protagonist tries to be a good supportive friend or lover, and then they end up triggering a corruption path for other characters perhaps even unwillingly or reluctantly, having the best intentions in mind, ultimately corrupting themselves as well in the process because their awareness of normality changes to previously unthinkable status quo. I call it "mutual corruption" because both characters end up influencing each other.

Would you mind sharing those games?

 

[lucadiadis]

Can someone quickly let me know if the game completed, hard to tell without deep diving.

However old you are, you will reach the age of retirement before this game is completed.

 

[BloodyMares]

Would you mind sharing those games?

I wasn't talking about games, just (interactive) stories, purely text-based. If you don't mind that, then I can recommend "Our Hero" by Arthur Saxon (Link:

You must be registered to see the links

).

You can't really change the narrative there (except for the very last choices that give 4 different endings), different options are there for the "Groundhog day" narrative where the day repeats itself until you make the correct decision to progress. The author posted a walkthrough but part of the charm is going in slow pace and playing at least one day after you progress the story to explore previous options and see the difference in interactions (result of the corruption). Warning, it contains "creepy crawly" fetish element towards the end of the story (meaning finding sexual pleasure from bugs crawling on the body) and one ending featuring bestiality for no reason (the endings to me were the weakest part about the story).

 

[ffive]

Ivy and Lena aren't established models. They're amateur insta-models (Peoplegram models), they don't work for any agency and very few people know about them. Cindy was selected because her modeling is more sensual and artistic, plus her beauty is all natural (Ivy has fake tits, piercings and lots of tattoos and basically sells porn on her Stalkfap). Wildcats simply view Ivy as trashy based on her portfolio and I imagine Lena's entry was too late so they already made up her mind about Cindy when Axel presented them Lena's portfolio (IF he really did that and didn't simply lie to Lena to make her pose for him some more).

Err, i feel you're making up some sort of headcannon that isn't quite there in the game? Axel is pertty explicit about the Wildcat thing in his texts:

            x "{i}Anyway, I just wanted to update you on the modeling agency situation.{/i}"
            x "{i}I presented them your portfolio and they liked it, but they were only interested in hiring a new model for the summer campaign and they gave that spot to another candidate.{/i}"
(...)
            l "{i}Just one more thing... Out of curiosity, who was the girl that was picked by the agency? Was it Ivy?{/i}"
            x "{i}No, it's the other girl I've been working with. Cindy.{/i}"
            l "{i}I see... Ivy won't be happy about it.{/i}"
            x "{i}I tried to get her in, but her style isn't quite what Wildcats is after. They're looking for something more... sophisticated.{/i}"

Wildcats was interested in hiring new model and that requirement ruled Lena out. Not having her portfolio presented late, or anything. So we can conclude from this that Lena does have some modeling presence that goes beyond "instagram girl very few people know of" and Ivy likely even more so, given she's working more actively on her modeling career.

The "sophisticated"/"sensual, artistic" thing is probably right, although i suspect it boils down more to Cindy not (yet) being used/comfortable with being openly sexual with her posing. Though it, again, strengthens the idea that Ivy and Lena have some modeling presence that's known to more than few people, and in this case that worked against Ivy -- if they were unknowns then having more bold shots in the portfolio would matter little; modeling is largely about presenting required persona after all.

 

[BloodyMares]

Err, i feel you're making up some sort of headcannon that isn't quite there in the game? Axel is pertty explicit about the Wildcat thing in his texts:

            x "{i}Anyway, I just wanted to update you on the modeling agency situation.{/i}"
            x "{i}I presented them your portfolio and they liked it, but they were only interested in hiring a new model for the summer campaign and they gave that spot to another candidate.{/i}"
(...)
            l "{i}Just one more thing... Out of curiosity, who was the girl that was picked by the agency? Was it Ivy?{/i}"
            x "{i}No, it's the other girl I've been working with. Cindy.{/i}"
            l "{i}I see... Ivy won't be happy about it.{/i}"
            x "{i}I tried to get her in, but her style isn't quite what Wildcats is after. They're looking for something more... sophisticated.{/i}"

Wildcats was interested in hiring new model and that requirement ruled Lena out. Not having her portfolio presented late, or anything. So we can conclude from this that Lena does have some modeling presence that goes beyond "instagram girl very few people know of" and Ivy likely even more so, given she's working more actively on her modeling career.

You might be right, however based on Lena's ambiguous reaction to the news ("I should've known this was getting nowhere...") I interpreted it differently. I'm not sure that the "new model" is Axel's reason for why Lena was rejected but rather that the summer spot was already taken. Axel says he'll try to push her application and "convince them to give you a chance for the autumn campaign". Why would they want a new model for the summer campaign in particular but be okay hiring a more prominent model for other campaigns?

I read it as them hiring a new Wildcats model (which would also apply to Lena and Ivy) specifically for the summer spot which was already taken by Cindy (most likely without Axel knowing at the time of shooting Lena) and Lena's portfolio wasn't good enough to change their mind but once Cindy was hired, Lena has the chance to become their next new model (if her work is sophisticated enough).

The "sophisticated"/"sensual, artistic" thing is probably right, although i suspect it boils down more to Cindy not (yet) being used/comfortable with being openly sexual with her posing. Though it, again, strengthens the idea that Ivy and Lena have some modeling presence that's known to more than few people, and in this case that worked against Ivy -- if they were unknowns then having more bold shots in the portfolio would matter little; modeling is largely about presenting required persona after all.

Or Wildcats simply run the background checks on any models that want to work for them, and they just didn't like what they saw on Ivy's Peoplegram. Especially if the agency is ran by snobs like Seymour which is very likely. Vixen studios for example also focus on the more "glamorous" image of their models and don't hire sluts who shoot for Legalporno or Kink.com or plastic-looking bimbos that barely resemble a human even if they're newbies.

 

[Flowing Thought]

I feel like Axel is being honest isn't something to take for granted. Maybe he is being honest, maybe he is not. He has shown himself to be dishonest in the past.

 

[Samsul Hidayat]

I feel like Axel is being honest isn't something to take for granted. Maybe he is being honest, maybe he is not. He has shown himself to be dishonest in the past.

Half truths breed the best lies, after all.

 

[johnyakuza1]

I feel bad for the people who bought this on itch.io... they haven't gotten an update in over a year LMAO

Eva just forgot they exist haha

 

[Blurpee69]

Could we maybe not do this?

There were seven posts of just single letters before they got removed. I was not complaining about any of the ongoing conversations.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

Err, i feel you're making up some sort of headcannon that isn't quite there in the game? Axel is pertty explicit about the Wildcat thing in his texts:

            x "{i}Anyway, I just wanted to update you on the modeling agency situation.{/i}"
            x "{i}I presented them your portfolio and they liked it, but they were only interested in hiring a new model for the summer campaign and they gave that spot to another candidate.{/i}"
(...)
            l "{i}Just one more thing... Out of curiosity, who was the girl that was picked by the agency? Was it Ivy?{/i}"
            x "{i}No, it's the other girl I've been working with. Cindy.{/i}"
            l "{i}I see... Ivy won't be happy about it.{/i}"
            x "{i}I tried to get her in, but her style isn't quite what Wildcats is after. They're looking for something more... sophisticated.{/i}"

Wildcats was interested in hiring new model and that requirement ruled Lena out. Not having her portfolio presented late, or anything. So we can conclude from this that Lena does have some modeling presence that goes beyond "instagram girl very few people know of" and Ivy likely even more so, given she's working more actively on her modeling career.

The "sophisticated"/"sensual, artistic" thing is probably right, although i suspect it boils down more to Cindy not (yet) being used/comfortable with being openly sexual with her posing. Though it, again, strengthens the idea that Ivy and Lena have some modeling presence that's known to more than few people, and in this case that worked against Ivy -- if they were unknowns then having more bold shots in the portfolio would matter little; modeling is largely about presenting required persona after all.

only interested in hiring "a new model for the summer campaign "and they gave that spot to another candidate can just as easily refer to any or all of them. "New model" for wildcats, someone they haven't worked with before. Like referring to someone as a "new employee" usually doesn't denote whether that person has previous job experience or not. And even if it did, the text you showed doesn't indicate they consider Lena or Ivy seasoned models, or that it was the reason Lena wasn't chosen. Open to interpretation, but it reads as if they only had one model slot to fill, for the summer campaign, and weren't looking for new models for any other campaigns at this time. They just happened to think Cindy was more right for it than Lena, despite liking her portfolio.

 

[ArcherHades46]

I am very upset about such a long update, but let's at least have hope of getting what we want, at least THIS MONTH!

 

[manscout]

Okay, I hear where you're coming from. Obviously the actual criminals are guilty while others can share responsibility but not the blame, it's not even a discussion. I guess our difference lies in who we see as the criminal in this analogy. You think it's the person doing the corruption, but I see the person being corrupted as a future criminal on their villain arc (IF they end up doing bad / irresponsible things according to their own starting morality). And because the person is on their villain arc I just don't see much point in finding the person guilty for making them a criminal (aka "We live in a society"), criminals aren't always pressured or coerced to do the crime, they choose to act based on external influence and their internal justification but they can only blame themselves for making that choice to go through with the crime.

One last thing (it's too engaging ). If you think of a person doing the corrupting as a criminal it paints the person getting corrupted as an innocent victim which robs them of agency. They're a human being with their own agency and they're making a choice when they do bad or irresponsible things. Lena can't blame Seymour for making her cheat on Ian (the moral action here is either to break up with Ian or just be honest with him and explain her problem if he promises to keep it a secret) or blame Jeremy's dick for making her treat Louise like trash and gaslight her into becoming a cuckquean. Just like Jeremy can't blame Lena for making him a bad friend to Ian or poor boyfriend to Louise if he can't man up to reject her and do the right thing. Just like Ian can't blame Cindy for being sexy or Wade for being a bad boyfriend or Axel for making his moves on her if he ends up banging Cindy and betraying Wade. Well, they can but it just wouldn't be mature or convincing.

Hence we go back to why my definition of corruption (as an active conduct) cares about method and intent.

Method because manipulation, coercion, and any other forms of fraud or duress already rob a person of their agency, maybe not completely so and you can still imagine all situations to have a "correct moral solution" to them (specially with the power of hindsight), but at some point you will be just "demanding perfection" and blaming the victim, as well as adopting the callous doctrine that every failure is a choice. It can be hard to draw an exact line of where there is in fact mutual blame from the passive part of an interaction.

Intent because no one should be blamed for the influence they exert just by being. That would be an undue obstacle to their own right to self-realization (which is the whole problem with corruption in the first place). What I mean by this is, with the way Ivy dresses, conducts herself, and expresses her opinions, she is still capable of making an impression and it should be possible for that impression alone to influence another person into emulating her lifestyle, even if it meant a radical change to their own. I wouldn't call that "corruption", in the same way I don't consider Lena's interactions with Holly to be corruptive. The problem is that Ivy doesn't change Holly just by being an example, she doesn't really respect Holly as a peer and demeans her lifestyle, while embellishing and being completely acritical of her own. She's pushy and wants to change Holly regardless of what Holly's own thoughts and feelings are because she already dismissed them as being "naive".

I like that you brought the BBC storyline up because, obviously only up until the cuckqueen part of it, Jeremy really wasn't responsible for any kind of corruption even while carrying out behaviors that many would consider immoral. Jeremy did nothing to Lena, she spied on Jeremy and Louise and developed her obsessive fetish all on her own. He was lying to and manipulating Louise to try to sleep around, but until the cuckqueen part he wasn't really trying to change her in any way (it is possible that he pressured her into agreeing to things like filming her, but I don't think that's ever established so just as likely that Louise agreed to it because she was not opposed). After the cuckqueen plot though Jeremy is definitely Lena's partner in crime when it comes to corrupting Louise, they both know how attached and emotionally fragile she is and they take advantage of it to get her to "agree" to things that go against her established values.

Now about Lena corrupting Jeremy I would say that's a bit more of a grey area, I would agree that merely hitting on someone or trying to seduce them does not count as any kind of manipulation as long as you stop at the "no", or at any other expression that the engagement in sexual developments is uncomfortable to the person being seduced. On the other hand Ivy tells Lena how easy it is to manipulate Jeremy and orchestrates the events of that evening with the express purpose of getting Lena and Jeremy intimate and Lena chooses to take full advantage of that. I would say that in both cases Jeremy is still mostly responsible for his moral failings because very little was done to rob him of his agency, but Lena was only "corrupting" him in the scenario where he at least tries to say no (high Ian_Jeremy relationship and Ian has feelings for Lena) because Lena pushes through his attempts to hold to his values of not cucking his bro, even if they were rather feeble attempts.

 

[BloodyMares]

I like that you brought the BBC storyline up because, obviously only up until the cuckqueen part of it, Jeremy really wasn't responsible for any kind of corruption even while carrying out behaviors that many would consider immoral. Jeremy did nothing to Lena, she spied on Jeremy and Louise and developed her obsessive fetish all on her own. He was lying to and manipulating Louise to try to sleep around, but until the cuckqueen part he wasn't really trying to change her in any way (it is possible that he pressured her into agreeing to things like filming her, but I don't think that's ever established so just as likely that Louise agreed to it because she was not opposed). After the cuckqueen plot though Jeremy is definitely Lena's partner in crime when it comes to corrupting Louise, they both know how attached and emotionally fragile she is and they take advantage of it to get her to "agree" to things that go against her established values.

Now about Lena corrupting Jeremy I would say that's a bit more of a grey area, I would agree that merely hitting on someone or trying to seduce them does not count as any kind of manipulation as long as you stop at the "no", or at any other expression that the engagement in sexual developments is uncomfortable to the person being seduced. On the other hand Ivy tells Lena how easy it is to manipulate Jeremy and orchestrates the events of that evening with the express purpose of getting Lena and Jeremy intimate and Lena chooses to take full advantage of that. I would say that in both cases Jeremy is still mostly responsible for his moral failings because very little was done to rob him of his agency, but Lena was only "corrupting" him in the scenario where he at least tries to say no (high Ian_Jeremy relationship and Ian has feelings for Lena) because Lena pushes through his attempts to hold to his values of not cucking his bro, even if they were rather feeble attempts.

That touches on whether Jeremy is innocent victim or a criminal (the one being corrupted or doing corruption) and whether Lena is corrupting Jeremy or not by disrespecting his initial rejection and half-hearted reluctance. All valid and good reasoning. What about the corruption of Lena in this scenario? You said it yourself that the person can't be blamed for corrupting by simply existing, so Jeremy can't be at fault for Lena developing the BBC fetish. So, how would you classify this fetish development if not corruption? That fetish is directly tied to Lena being irresponsible and doing things she would blame Ivy for (like seducing Jeremy or being mean to Louise) or, like she blamed Ian for kissing Holly and compromising their friendship. On Jeremy's path not only is she willing to sleep around with Jeremy behind Louise's back, she also doesn't care that he's a friend of Ian and it might ruin their friendship as well if they ever were caught or Jeremy slipped when he was too relaxed, etc.

This is the clear sign of Lena's moral corruption with nobody else to blame it on but her own lust that made her either spy on Louise and Jeremy (a morally questionable thing to do) and then hacking Louise's phone (deliberate disregard of her privacy as the previous peek could be argued as accidental). There's no method that would fit your criteria (just curiosity and arousal), and there's no intent (at least the first time when Lena found herself spying on Louise and Jeremy). I guess it could be argued when she hacked Louise's phone or when she agreed to jack him off during Ivy's party that she had the intent to satisfy her curiosity even if she felt partially guilty about it. So, self-corruption then?

 

[ffive]

Why would they want a new model for the summer campaign in particular but be okay hiring a more prominent model for other campaigns?

I mean... why not? Not all campaigns are the same, so i feel it's perfectly reasonable for Wildcats to want a new face for one campaign, but someone more established for another. It'd depend on what sort of image respective clients they're working with want for their products.

Or Wildcats simply run the background checks on any models that want to work for them, and they just didn't like what they saw on Ivy's Peoplegram.

That's certainly a possibility, although in such case there might be some branching down the road depending on how far Lena takes her own online presence, i'd guess?