VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.14.1.4 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[GibboBtw]

edit: as for why the "female POV's options suck", i suspect this is at least in part because EK knows how their largely male playerbase approaches games which include male protagonist. That is, short of mommysboiii-adjacent folks and some outliers, the bulk of them takes deep, screeching offence if any man other than the protagonist they control and self-insert into shows even a minor sign of being genuine competition to what they presume is their god-granted right to be on the top.

If any of those guys was more competent or interesting, you could probably triple the amount of complaints how Ian isn't enough of a 3-meters tall hot shit turbo-chad and instead more of a mediocre dude, that this thread gets already.

Damn. I've always thought that all of Lena's male LIs were absolute dogshit like the other guy said. And I was starting to wonder if maybe EK just wasn't very good, or even capable of thinking up just one 'decent' man for her to have as a LI.

But intentionally nerfing them as to not offend the average player self inserting as Ian. That actually makes a lot of sense.

Now that I think about it though. Does this not apply to Lena and her 'competition' amongst the women for Ian as well? Maybe not as strong and obvious, but at least partly?

They all really can't/don't hold a candle to her when it comes to competing with her for Ian. Alison is the best example, as she's very insecure about Lena as the game makes clear a few times. Holly straight up has a 'Be Like Lena' counter to further that she's "better" than her in her mind and wants to be her. I also feel like the game makes a point of showing that Cindy is way more childish, and almost like a 'lesser' version of Lena, with her copying her career and falling for the same shit that Lena did with Axel. Cherry was also very clearly jealous of Lena as well in the Axel situation and puts her above her in those regards.

I could then easily see if we ever get to a point of where Mummy Minerva and Lena are ever properly introduced, and are both made aware that they're both going after Ian. Minnie would be pretty insecure about competing with a 'prettier and younger' woman. Emma isn't the biggest offender, but she's partly insecure about how 'feminine' she appears and is envious of Lena in that respect.

Then, and this one might just be my imagination. But doesn't the game also say that no woman Ian has sex with feels as good, or is as good as Lena. I could be imagining things but I swear I've read during at least some of his sex scenes with different girls, after he's been with Lena obviously. That either when they're blowing him or when they're having sex that 'It's not as good as Lena, but still good.' or something like that. I feel like I've seen that mentioned at least with Mummy, Holly, Cindy and Alison. But I could be insane...

 

[ffive]

Now that I think about it though. Does this not apply to Lena and her 'competition' amongst the women for Ian as well? Maybe not as strong and obvious, but at least partly?

I think this is somehow reduced in effect because, if we keep working with the presumption the playerbase is largely male, then a lot of them don't self-insert into Lena but, similar to GGGB playerbase, they view her more as a doll to watch as she has ("slutty") sex with the rest of the cast. From the POV of male protagonist-centric player Lena is just one of the girls for Ian to fuck, one whose actions they have more control over but little more than that.

But that said, yes, i think Lena does get some of that "main character" energy too, with what you point out and how the game largely only paints Ivy as someone who is "better"/more sexy than Lena and/or someone Lena might say she aspires to be like. And, suprise, look at all the hate Ivy is getting for not kissing Lena's feet 24/7 but trying to be a protagonist in her own right

 

[Gicoo]

Now that I think about it though. Does this not apply to Lena and her 'competition' amongst the women for Ian as well?

Sure. The biggest narrative dissonance apparent is whenever Lena is compared to Ivy. Ivy is initially portrayed as the more experienced, mentor-like veteran, who turns heads, earns far more than Lena and went far towards her goals (surgery, job experience).
And what happens in game? Lena beats Ivy every single time. Lena is allegedly less hot, lost her groove after her breakup and only starts getting back to the game, but every men favors her over Ivy and Lena wins every contest. In the current chapter there was an opportunity to have Lena lose against Ivy, but she can just take center and steal the spotlight effortlessly.
Whatever Ivy aims at, Lena can do her one better.


One small detail I liked was that Cindy was that tempting towards Ian that she overrode his lust for any other girl, one of the rare cases when Lena lost. Though Ian also always loses to Axel in terms of igniting Lena's lust (yet).

 

[ffive]

but every men favors her over Ivy

Mike, Jeremy, Ian, Billy and Jack to name a few are all more than happy to go for Ivy even if they have regular (or incidental) access to Lena. This can go different in the most recent chapter, but i wouldn't say that earlier in the game Lena was painted as the winner in this pairing.

Heck, even Holly is completely lost to Lena's desires if you let Ivy as much as put that tongue of hers on/in the nerd.

 

[varpep]

Then, and this one might just be my imagination. But doesn't the game also say that no woman Ian has sex with feels as good, or is as good as Lena. I could be imagining things but I swear I've read during at least some of his sex scenes with different girls, after he's been with Lena obviously. That either when they're blowing him or when they're having sex that 'It's not as good as Lena, but still good.' or something like that. I feel like I've seen that mentioned at least with Mummy, Holly, Cindy and Alison. But I could be insane...

You forgot Louise! She is the latest and biggest victim of this

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It's not enough to say that she's pretty but also she is not as pretty as Lena lol. Poor Louise. Used by Lena and thrown to the curb when it was no longer convenient. Now used by Ian and will soon meet the same fate. What she needs is a man like Stan that has all the attention to give. Who knows, maybe it might happen in later updates. Imagine Ian losing to Stan Has to be the glow up of the century

edit:The person that suffers from this too on the male side is Robert lol. When ever Lena has sex with Robert, her inner monologue is about how average he is or thinking about another man. Poor Robert... nah fuck that! Deserved! L Bozo! We smoking that Robert pack!

 

[Gicoo]

Mike, Jeremy, Ian, Billy and Jack to name a few are all more than happy to go for Ivy even if they have regular (or incidental) access to Lena. This can go different in the most recent chapter, but i wouldn't say that earlier in the game Lena was painted as the winner in this pairing.

Heck, even Holly is completely lost to Lena's desires if you let Ivy as much as put that tongue of hers on/in the nerd.

Ivy pointed out that Mike never made a move on a women, emphasizing how exemplary Lena seducing him is. Mike only fucks Ivy once and it seems a very casual fling, not comparable to how wild he is towards Lena.
Jeremy tells Louise he likes Lena the most (if its a lie, then why not just name Louise herself) and obeys Lena and doesn't go after Ivy, because keeping Lena is his best option in his book.
Ian initially describes Ivy as out of reach, but since he never fucked her and can fuck Lena, Cindy and Bad Jess over the course of the game, what can Ivy even provide at this point in time.
Billy is entirely fine with Lena and favors her over Ivy at the shoot.
Ivy fails to get Jack, only Lena can get his attention.

Lena was only told to us as second to Ivy. But shown in practice, she beat her everytime. Hence narrative dissonance.

 

[GibboBtw]

You forgot Louise! She is the latest and biggest victim of this

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It's not enough to say that she's pretty but also she is not as pretty as Lena lol. Poor Louise. Used by Lena and thrown to the curb when it was no longer convenient. Now used by Ian and will soon meet the same fate. What she needs is a man like Stan that has all the attention to give. Who knows, maybe it might happen in later updates. Imagine Ian losing to Stan Has to be the glow up of the century

Oh there you go, I'm not insane! Good to know.

Yeah now that you mention it, I do remember just feeling really bad for Louise during this scene...

The build up felt a little weird with how it really just seemed like Ian was looking to 'use' her for a bit of fun. And then the scene its self felt a bit strange that Ian spent most of it either thinking about other women that were better than her, or thinking about how 'far' he can take it with her. Poor girl deserves a hug.

I think this is somehow reduced in effect because, if we keep working with the presumption the playerbase is largely male, then a lot of them don't self-insert into Lena but, similar to GGGB playerbase, they view her more as a doll to watch as she has ("slutty") sex with the rest of the cast. From the POV of male protagonist-centric player Lena is just one of the girls for Ian to fuck, one whose actions they have more control over but little more than that.

But that said, yes, i think Lena does get some of that "main character" energy too, with what you point out and how the game largely only paints Ivy as someone who is "better"/more sexy than Lena and/or someone Lena might say she aspires to be like. And, suprise, look at all the hate Ivy is getting for not kissing Lena's feet 24/7 but trying to be a protagonist in her own right

Yeah I think you're right. Also I don't think generally speaking here, that women are as territorial as men. So for the women that do play this game, and that do 'self insert' as Lena. They probably don't really feel as insecure about the other women LIs like the average man usually would in the reverse.

As for the Ivy thing. I think the closest thing we have to an Ian equivalent for the Lena/Ivy dynamic. Of them seeming to be slightly "better" than them is Jeremy IMO. If you take into account the whole fighting thing of Ian never being able to beat him (so far at least). Being jealous of how easy he picks up women, being tall, the trademark 'BBC cock envy' you can set up if you do the threesome with Alison and him. Where you can have Ian nervously ask Alison after "who was better" and her being a little disappointed he would ask that. It's not a 1 for 1 obviously. But I think it's the closest comparison you can get. And he does kind of fill that fetish for the players that want to feel 'inferior' to another male in the game.

 

[ffive]

Ivy pointed out that Mike never made a move on a women, emphasizing how exemplary Lena seducing him is. Mike only fucks Ivy once and it seems a very casual fling, not comparable to how wild he is towards Lena.

Lena may be potentially going head over heels for Mike, but he'll still fuck Ivy regardless, as soon as she makes it an option. Pair this with how upset Lena gets over it and how Mike basically tells her to shut the fuck up because she knew what she's getting into... Lena really doesn't come across as anything but a clown dunked on by both her friend and her lover. Not the winner.

Jeremy tells Louise he likes Lena the most (if its a lie, then why not just name Louise herself) and obeys Lena and doesn't go after Ivy, because keeping Lena is his best option in his book.

Jeremy still tries to get Ivy interested in him in Chapter 13, regardless of his relationship with Lena. So, no, it doesn't seem like he considers Lena his best option, or at least not one interesting enough to keep him from trying to score with Ivy.

Ian initially describes Ivy as out of reach, but since he never fucked her and can fuck Lena, Cindy and Bad Jess over the course of the game, what can Ivy even provide at this point in time.

Clearly Ian can think that Ivy can provide him with something worthwhile that he ain't getting from these other girls, if he chooses to respond to her flirts. It's the same thing like with Mike -- why would either of them want to settle for girl inferior to Lena, if they both thought Lena is superior and Ivy can't offer them something Lena couldn't?

Billy is entirely fine with Lena and favors her over Ivy at the shoot.

Billy never seeks Lena to spend time with her in the last chapter, nor iirc even bothers to contact her about anything but his business venture. He's perfectly happy to hang out and fuck Ivy instead. This is hardly behavior of someone who might be interested. Contrast this with Anthony who does seek Lena out multiple times.

Ivy fails to get Jack, only Lena can get his attention.

I remembered this one wrong, i thought Jack went to the VIP room after his "ejaculate and evacuate" maneuver with Lena, but that's not the case. So OK, this one we can probably say that Lena inches a bit ahead.

 

[varpep]

As for the Ivy thing. I think the closest thing we have to an Ian equivalent for the Lena/Ivy dynamic. Of them seeming to be slightly "better" than them is Jeremy IMO. If you take into account the whole fighting thing of Ian never being able to beat him (so far at least). Being jealous of how easy he picks up women, being tall, the trademark 'BBC cock envy' you can set up if you do the threesome with Alison and him. Where you can have Ian nervously ask Alison after "who was better" and her being a little disappointed he would ask that. It's not a 1 for 1 obviously. But I think it's the closest comparison you can get. And he does kind of fill that fetish for the players that want to feel 'inferior' to another male in the game.

Yeah Jeremy can fill that niche role but to me he seems very inoffensive. Despite being physically attractive he loses out to Ian every time and it's only a matter of time Ian beats him in a sparring match. He is never malicious (except on one path). Despite having a huge dick, he doesn't make the most of it as he is a quickshot. And he is quite the meathead. Like I said, inoffensive and not someone to feel threatened by.

Now as for Axel, woo boy! Where do we start lol. Just look at the reaction to the photo of him touching Cindy's butt. Safe to say many were not pleased while some were licking their lips in anticipation... ffive once said something that I find to be very true. Axel is like the anti-Jeremy in that he is not only physically attractive but very malicious. Not only well endowed but knows how to use it to satisfy a woman. He may be a man child but is still very charming and persuasive. He is much more threatening than Jeremy. Naturally this should be the case since he is an antagonist.

 

[GibboBtw]

Yeah Jeremy can fill that niche role but to me he seems very inoffensive. Despite being physically attractive he loses out to Ian every time and it's only a matter of time Ian beats him in a sparring match. He is never malicious (except on one path). Despite having a huge dick, he doesn't make the most of it as he is a quickshot. And he is quite the meathead. Like I said, inoffensive and not someone to feel threatened by.

Now as for Axel, woo boy! Where do we start lol. Just look at the reaction to the photo of him touching Cindy's butt. Safe to say many were not pleased while some were licking their lips in anticipation... ffive once said something that I find to be very true. Axel is like the anti-Jeremy in that he is not only physically attractive but very malicious. Not only well endowed but knows how to use it to satisfy a woman. He may be a man child but is still very charming and persuasive. He is much more threatening than Jeremy. Naturally this should be the case since he is an antagonist.

Yeah Axel works in that role too. I was just more thinking of how Lena and Ivy are besties like Ian and Jeremy are as well. So it was more a comparison of the dynamic of being envious/jealous of a friend. Rather than the Antagonist. But yeah they both work in a way.

A bit of topic here. But am I the only one who wants some kind of Antagonist for Lena that isn't a man like Axel and Seymour? Gimme some 'nasty bitch' kind of woman for her to butt heads with. Ian already has Robert/Axel, potentially Jeremy and probably Seymour at some point to contend with in some way.

Lena can share two of those in Seymour and Axel. And then doesn't really have any female antagonists. The Cindy stuff was nothing and meh, maybe something will happen but I doubt it. Maybe Ivy can become one with the way the current version can go, with her giving Lena the tattoo that you can make her have an absolute crashout over. But still. If Ian gets all these dudes as potential villains, I want 'a nasty bitch' one for Lena. Fair is fair.

 

[Vengeance_11]

A bit of topic here. But am I the only one who wants some kind of Antagonist for Lena that isn't a man like Axel and Seymour? Gimme some 'nasty bitch' kind of woman for her to butt heads with.

I mean the current chapter is seemingly setting Zarina up to fill that role, especially on the path where Lena doesn't buy into her fake friendliness.