VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.14.1.4 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[DeemLeem12]

They don't have to do anything. Just because Ian pushes for it doesn't mean Lena is obliged to change her feelings on the matter. Just like Ian's meddling in Cindy's and Wade's relationship doesn't make them stay together.

Are we talking the same language? I was saying that as a possible path in which Cherry could have been better integrated to the story, and has more impact among the characters in ORS. Ian pushing for their reconcilement could definitely make Cherry and Lena friends again. Lena's path to reconcilement with Axel happened when Axel approached her and apologized for his actions. Ian who is close to Cherry could push her to apologize to Lena and make amends.

Axel didn't manipulate Cherry, she does say explicitly herself that she knew exactly what she was doing. She is just as guilty of what Lena has experienced as Axel is, being a willing participant and lying to Lena throughout it.
It takes two people in order for cheating on the third to happen. If it wasn't for Cherry taking part, then Axel could at best cheat on Lena with his own hand.

Axel manipulated Cherry into thinking there could be more to their relationship. Cherry thought that after Lena was out of the picture Axel would give her the attention she wanted. Cherry is not as guilty as Axel. Axel is the one who is in a committed relationship to Lena. The cheater will always be in a worse position than the third party.

Say what now? Cherry is still hung up on Axel (for a while) thinking maybe she could have him to herself now that Lena was out of the picture. That's not trauma, that's just pining for a known asshole (one that she had hots for in the first place)

Cherry literally could not form a relationship with Ian because of what happened. She is too afraid to trust and be in love again. Her path literally ends if you try to push her into it. How is that not trauma? The fact that Cherry loved Axel is not a point against trauma, that's a point for that made it even more impactful.

Did .. did you just quote and then argue with yourself?

Maybe have better reading comprehension next time?

As FFive already stated to you earlier, it takes two hands to clap, it takes two people to clap each other. Cheating is a series of compounding actions. Cherry knew very well what she was doing. Take Lena on Mike's path as an example. She's doing the same thing as Cherry did to her when she was with Axel.

Lena might have later dropped Axel slowly, but Cherry just escalated the process. Thus, we got an abrupt ending to Axel/Lena's relationship.

That's the point, it wasn't Cherry who cheated on Lena, it was Axel. I never said Cherry had no fault in the matter. Lena had no problem having sex with Cherry, not does she have qualms with her boyfriend doing the same. It was when she found out that they were already having sex before the threesome was when Lena broke things up.

It's funny that you ask how they could bond for causing pain when they were friends before

It's funny that you ask how they could bond after cheating on Lena and causing pain when they were in a relationship before
Oh wait that they actually bonded.

It's even worse when a so-called "friend" stabs you in the back.

It's even worse when a so-called "boyfriend" stabs you in the back.

I don't see any reconciliation between Lena/Cherry. Cherry is as much to blame as Axel. Regarding the variable, please don't take it as a word set in stone. Variables change on every update.

I can definitely see a reconciliation between Lena/Cherry. Once again, Cherry isn't as much to blame as Axel. Axel is the one who cheated. The variable is a point on a possibility of reconciliation, not against it. Furthermore, the premise of the game is about two hurt individuals who got entangled and are seeking to move forward despite their pain. Healing from that pain and creating new relationships is one of the major themes in the game. We see that with Lena reconciling with Axel. We see that with Ian reconciling with Gillian. I can't see how Lena couldn't forgive Cherry when she could forgive Axel who cheated on her.

 

[HongTeaPot]

If Ian is on his fuckboi route, he doesn't really even have one girlfriend. But he can have damn near the entire cast as a sexual partner if played right. If you want actual "girlfriends" with actual relationship statuses and the like, best you can do is the Lena / Ian / Holly throuple.

In the storyline I chose, Ian's number of sexual partners never exceeded three. Initially, I had Ian date Alison, then when Ian chose to secretly meet Minerva and Cindy, and established a romantic relationship with Lena, Ian proactively broke up with Alison. Later, after Ian entered a triangular relationship with Lena and Holly, he also terminated his connection with Minerva. Currently, in my storyline, Ian has only Cindy as a sexual partner besides Lena and Holly.

 

[ffive]

Are we talking the same language? I was saying that as a possible path in which Cherry could have been better integrated to the story, and has more impact among the characters in ORS. Ian pushing for their reconcilement could definitely make Cherry and Lena friends again.

I'd like to think that we are talking the same language, yes. What i was saying was, that contrary to your apparent belief and how you put it, Lena doesn't have to reconcile with Cherry, no matter Ian's stance on it. Ian can, frankly, fuck off in this matter, this is between Lena and Cherry and he's got no part in those events. He's at best imposing in this scenario.

It'd be like Lena or Cherry or whoever nagging Ian to meet with Gliian and/or her current boyfriend and to make nice with them. I don't think you'd appreciate very much if they were pushing your MC for it, do you...? Ian's old friends evidently know better than that.

Lena's path to reconcilement with Axel happened when Axel approached her and apologized for his actions. Ian who is close to Cherry could push her to apologize to Lena and make amends.

That was Axel who had part in the events, and one of the culprits. Ian is not Axel, and him trying to push anyone is just an entitled guy trying to be pushy when he should know better, like when to keep his trap shut if his input was not asked for. Besides, if Ian has to push Cherry for her to seek reconcilement, this means that neither Cherry nor Lena themselves think it's something that should happen and want strong enough to do it on their own, no?

Axel manipulated Cherry into thinking there could be more to their relationship. Cherry thought that after Lena was out of the picture Axel would give her the attention she wanted. Cherry is not as guilty as Axel.

That's pure speculation on your part, one which we don't see anywhere in the game. People deluding themselves that they can be the next gf/bf when the current one is out of the picture isn't something they need to be manipulated into. Plenty of them can do it on their own, when it's their reproductive organs doing the thinking for them.

Axel is the one who is in a committed relationship to Lena. The cheater will always be in a worse position than the third party.

It doesn't absolve the other participant of their role and associated responsibility. To reuse the earlier analogy, do you think that if only Lena or Cherry floated the idea, then Ian should be all like "oh buddy, this was not your fault at all, it was that hoe Gillian who tricked you. You're just an innocent, manipulated 3rd party, let's hit the bar for some drinks" with Mike or whoever is the guy that his ex-gf has fucked and replaced him with? Or maybe framing it like this does expose a bit the ridiculousness of such notion...?

Cherry literally could not form a relationship with Ian because of what happened. She is too afraid to trust and be in love again. Her path literally ends if you try to push her into it. How is that not trauma?

No, Cherry is in love with Axel and she is hoping she could be his girlfriend, so she is not up for a relationship with different guy. Her rejecting Ian who is being pushy is not trauma, but simply rejecting a pushy guy she has no deeper interest in at that point, preferring someone else. She eventually gets over her feelings for Axel and moves on, and at this point she gets involved with a guy who hasn't shown himself to be pushy. It's simple enough and common sequence of events that doesn't require a trauma in order to happen and make sense.

 

[Tainy_de_Crooce]

Good one

 

[SearingFive]

That's the point, it wasn't Cherry who cheated on Lena, it was Axel. I never said Cherry had no fault in the matter. Lena had no problem having sex with Cherry, not does she have qualms with her boyfriend doing the same. It was when she found out that they were already having sex before the threesome was when Lena broke things up.

Lena accepted the threesome because Axel asked her, and you know what type of relationship Lena/Axel had.

It's funny that you ask how they could bond after cheating on Lena and causing pain when they were in a relationship before
Oh wait that they actually bonded.

Just because Axel coerced Lena into having a threesome with Cherry doesn't mean that those two girls bonded at a friendly level. They were just present physically.

I can definitely see a reconciliation between Lena/Cherry. Once again, Cherry isn't as much to blame as Axel. Axel is the one who cheated. The variable is a point on a possibility of reconciliation, not against it. Furthermore, the premise of the game is about two hurt individuals who got entangled and are seeking to move forward despite their pain. Healing from that pain and creating new relationships is one of the major themes in the game. We see that with Lena reconciling with Axel. We see that with Ian reconciling with Gillian. I can't see how Lena couldn't forgive Cherry when she could forgive Axel who cheated on her.

Cherry is as much to blame as Axel. Was Cherry in a comatose state when Axel fucked her? She literally gave him consent and went on with it anyway, knowing that he was still Lena's boyfriend. Cherry got hurt after Axel went into "babyrage tantrum antics" after his break-up with Lena, and didn't accept Cherry as she was hoping for.

She tried getting him once more, where you meet Axel/Cherry together after Ivy's birthday party outside Blazer. At that moment, Cherry realised that Axel hadn't moved on from Lena, and she got her closure unknowingly and dropped him.

Lena tried reconciling with Axel because she genuinely loved him and was emotionally attached to him; it's the same thing with Ian/Gillian. You try to reconcile with a person when you were emotionally invested in them, but you don't go around doing the same with other people.

It can't be the same towards Cherry. They had sex once, and that's about it. Cherry is, was and still is an acquaintance of hers. Sure, during the late game, they might talk and at least be civil, but going over that is not plausible at all.

 

[varpep]

As much as I love my ashanti queen, she is a bonafide home wrecker. You ain't slick gurl! You knew what you were doing. If things had gone your way after the breakup, how remorseful would you actually be? Come on baby I got 99 play recognition!

All jokes aside let's call a spade a spade and stop making excuses for Cherry. It's up to Lena if she want's to reconcile with Cherry or not. And she is not obligated to.

 

[Gicoo]

As much as I love my ashanti queen, she is a bonafide home wrecker. You ain't slick gurl! You knew what you were doing. If things had gone your way after the breakup, how remorseful would you actually be? Come on baby I got 99 play recognition!

All jokes aside let's call a spade a spade and stop making excuses for Cherry. It's up to Lena if she want's to reconcile with Cherry or not. And she is not obligated to.

The story is going the regret angle. The problem is that nothing comes out of it. Cherry says she is sorry and Ian says its okay (or doesn't, but they don't interact much in that case).
Could be something if Cherry acts as a manipulative hindering bitch, on and off dating Ian, switching between him, Axel and Perry, toying with them all.

 

[ffive]

Could be something if Cherry acts as a manipulative hindering bitch, on and off dating Ian, switching between him, Axel and Perry, toying with them all.

Please stop, i'm pretty sure mommysboiii can only get so erect.

(but, yes)

 

[dolfe67]

When you're finished talking about a threesome with Cherry (very unlikely), let's switch to a more likely scenario like Lena/Cindy/Ian

 

[BlandChili]

When you're finished talking about a threesome with Cherry (very unlikely), let's switch to a more likely scenario like Lena/Cindy/Ian

Or Cindy/Lena/Cherry.

 

[ffive]

Or Cindy/Lena/Cherry.

3-way hatefuck sounds legit.

 

[Blurpee69]

I don't think Cherry is manipulating Ian or even Perry if that's the direction you let her go. The game treats a serious relationship between her and Ian in many of the same ways that it treats Ian and Lena, Holly, or Cindy.

My calls for Cherry and Lena to reconcile have always been more about them having a talk without Axel involved. I'm not really expecting them to become best friends or anything and have it all be water under the bridge. It's clear that both girls were charmed by and infatuated with Axel. Something that he was aware of and used to his advantage; we're witnessing the same process right now with Cindy. Cindy just has the luxury of multiple people warning her to be cautious of Axel. Something I'm not entirely sure Lena or Cherry had. Lena especially; considering her mother and Ivy both play a part in trying to get Lena back with Axel. Even if her mother's attempt was less malicious than Ivy's.

Cherry is not, nor should she be, excused for her behavior; she admits as much to Ian on multiple occasions. Nor does Lena have to forgive her for what happened, but I would still like to see them talk. It could make for some decent drama.

 

[Vengeance_11]

It could make for some decent drama.

Said drama would likely be caused by Ivy. She already makes her opinion that Lena has no obligation to listen to Cherry very clear, and seems to hate the latter for her actions even more than Lena herself.

Any attempts to have them talk it out would be derailed by Ivy badmouthing Cherry and doing everything she can to convince Lena not to bother with the idea. (Not that I see it happening. I agree with ffive's sentiment that this is just a case of Ian getting involved in something that very much doesn't concern him)

 

[BlandChili]

Said drama would likely be caused by Ivy. She already makes her opinion that Lena has no obligation to listen to Cherry very clear, and seems to hate the latter for her actions even more than Lena herself.

Any attempts to have them talk it out would be derailed by Ivy badmouthing Cherry and doing everything she can to convince Lena not to bother with the idea. (Not that I see it happening. I agree with ffive's sentiment that this is just a case of Ian getting involved in something that very much doesn't concern him)

We can just sic Zarina at Ivy if she acts up now~

 

[Birdnman993]

Or Cindy/Lena/Cherry.

 

[Blurpee69]

Said drama would likely be caused by Ivy. She already makes her opinion that Lena has no obligation to listen to Cherry very clear, and seems to hate the latter for her actions even more than Lena herself.

Any attempts to have them talk it out would be derailed by Ivy badmouthing Cherry and doing everything she can to convince Lena not to bother with the idea. (Not that I see it happening. I agree with ffive's sentiment that this is just a case of Ian getting involved in something that very much doesn't concern him)

I don't know how many pages ago it is now, but in my initial arguments for seeing Lena and Cherry talk it out I acknowledge that Ivy also seems very determined to make sure that doesn't happen. I also said that we should also evaluate everything Ivy says with more scrutiny and question why she hates Cherry so much. In the early game it's easy to believe that it's because Cherry hurt Lena and Lena is Ivy's friend. With further revelations we've been getting recently, that could still be the case, but it brings into question if Ivy doesn't have some sort of back door deal with Axel.

 

[ffive]

In the early game it's easy to believe that it's because Cherry hurt Lena and Lena is Ivy's friend. With further revelations we've been getting recently, that could still be the case, but it brings into question if Ivy doesn't have some sort of back door deal with Axel.

I believe there's nothing more to it because there simply isn't anything that Cherry talking with Lena could possibly bring to light, that Ivy would want to stay hidden. I mean, what sort of back deal with Axel could we be talking of here that i gather, Cherry, of all people, would be somehow aware of, that she'd want to tell Lena about, but until now apparently never thought Lena would be interested in knowing about...?

 

[BlandChili]

I believe there's nothing more to it because there simply isn't anything that Cherry talking with Lena could possibly bring to light, that Ivy would want to stay hidden. I mean, what sort of back deal with Axel could we be talking of here that i gather, Cherry, of all people, would be somehow aware of, that she'd want to tell Lena about, but until now apparently never thought Lena would be interested in knowing about...?

It doesn't have to be about providing new information though. Cherry talking to Lena and apologizing in person, if she should be able to do so, could be enough to jolt the drama in the story a bit. Give Lena something to reflect upon perhaps.

Actually because Ivy has been her only perspective towards Axel, besides her own, she probably has never felt very validated in her bitterness towards him. Since Ivy has always advocated for moving on from their past. Cherry affirming to Lena that she was wronged could be meaningful and since she was a participant in what was done to her, her admission of this could be very important for Lena, if she should choose to accept it.

 

[ffive]

It doesn't have to be about providing new information though. Cherry talking to Lena and apologizing in person, if she should be able to do so, could be enough to jolt the drama in the story a bit. Give Lena something to reflect upon perhaps.

Actually because Ivy has been her only perspective towards Axel, besides her own, she probably has never felt very validated in her bitterness towards him. Since Ivy has always advocated for moving on from their past. Cherry affirming to Lena that she was wronged could be meaningful and since she was a participant in what was done to her, her admission of this could be very important for Lena, if she should choose to accept it.

I was looking at it not from the drama angle (for a change) but mostly from the presented angle of "maybe Ivy doesn't want Lena to talk with Cherry because she's hiding something she doesn't want Lena to find out". That's what doesn't seem really plausible in any manner to me.

As for validation, i've never felt like this is something Lena was missing re: her decision to break up with Axel. It'd seem a little silly in fact that one would need a confirmation of "yes, you did the right thing for breaking up with cheating asshole and you're right to hate them for that, too" because that's kind of like, a no-brainer that if anything people presume and endorse as default. And honestly, this sort of supposed validation coming from Cherry of all people... personally that wouldn't give me anything but empty laugh and strong urge to tell that girl to get the fuck out of my face, because she's the last person on Earth i want to hear any remarks on this matter from.

I mean, it's like someone telling you "Hey, you know how your partner and me shat on the carpet in the middle of your living room? Yeah, that was wrong to do and you're totally justified hating him for it. And me too, i guess, sorry!". I mean, srsly, the sheer gall of such approach, just, no. And from what we've seen in the game, Lena appears to have rather similar approach to this matter, and she does not want to hear anything from Cherry, much less accept it.

 

[BlandChili]

I was looking at it not from the drama angle (for a change) but mostly from the presented angle of "maybe Ivy doesn't want Lena to talk with Cherry because she's hiding something she doesn't want Lena to find out". That's what doesn't seem really plausible in any manner to me.

I think it could be interesting to explore regardless of Ivy's specific issues. But I generally favor dismissing Ivy, so there is that

As for validation, i've never felt like this is something Lena was missing re: her decision to break up with Axel. It'd seem a little silly in fact that one would need a confirmation of "yes, you did the right thing for breaking up with cheating asshole and you're right to hate them for that, too" because that's kind of like, a no-brainer that if anything people presume and endorse as default. And honestly, this sort of supposed validation coming from Cherry of all people... personally that wouldn't give me anything but empty laugh and strong urge to tell that girl to get the fuck out of my face, because she's the last person on Earth i want to hear any remarks on this matter from.

Well it could be up to the player to decide if it's something Lena wants or needs, including telling her to beat it, just as we can do with Axel.

I mean, it's like someone telling you "Hey, you know how your partner and me shat on the carpet in the middle of your living room? Yeah, that was wrong to do and you're totally justified hating him for it. And me too, i guess, sorry!". I mean, srsly, the sheer gall of such approach, just, no. And from what we've seen in the game, Lena appears to have rather similar approach to this matter, and she does not want to hear anything from Cherry, much less accept it.

Sure, but the concept of them communicating in some fashion is proposed in the game itself, so regardless of how it plays out and what tone it has it could still serve a function for the story.