VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch.14.1.4 Beta] [Eva Kiss]

[DavDR]

So if I don't fap to these games

If

 

[BloodyMares]

They can be a slave to their desires, which is 1000% different from what you said.

I accept, that English is not my first language so I might use certain terms with not accurate meaning. But what is the source of desire if not chemical reaction in your body responding to an outside stimuli with previous positive association with that stimuli?
Whether it's hormones or something else you would know better.

That said, her chemical reaction is just the initial response that has nothing to do with her conscious decision-making. She can resist her desire and act "sober", or she can go with the flow and seek immediate satisfaction.

No better time to pull it, to be honest. Not to make this bigger than it is, but reasoning like that tends to encourage a kind of dissociation and removal of agency from oneself and one's actions that really serves no one.

It doesn't remove agency. It's just another factor that affects your decision-making. The choice that would normally be very easy for you (without temptations), suddenly becomes quite hard because you need to have great willpower to override your biology and resist said temptations to act according to your morals. Some people's morals or willpower are so strong that any desire immediately becomes a non-factor, but the opposite is also true for other people and any such decision turns into a struggle (porn addiction / hypersexuality). Everyone is still making a choice, but driven by different reasons.

Axel Kiss) What I mean is that you should be able to extract yourself after the kiss. Pedantic I suppose- but still another exit point would make more sense than will=0 and auto sex on a kiss- assuming you have a spine.

Yes, I meant after the kiss because he kisses Lena anyway. You have a choice, to stop the kiss and push him away (that extraction you're talking about) or kissing him back which telegraphs your intention to proceed. Make up your mind on what you want from Lena. You want her to stop Axel or you want to make out with him knowing full well where it would lead? Your actions determine Lena's choice. If you choose to kiss him back, then it means Lena enjoys Axel's attention and wants more.

It's basically the same choice that was with Holly for Ian. You can either stop the kiss and tell her why you don't want to proceed, or you can respond to the kiss and end up having sex with her.

 

[PervySageKem]

I accept, that English is not my first language so I might use certain terms with not accurate meaning. But what is the source of desire if not chemical reaction in your body responding to an outside stimuli with previous positive association with that stimuli?
Whether it's hormones or something else you would know better.

That said, her chemical reaction is just the initial response that has nothing to do with her conscious decision-making. She can resist her desire and act "sober", or she can go with the flow and seek immediate satisfaction.


It doesn't remove agency. It's just another factor that affects your decision-making. The choice that would normally be very easy for you (without temptations), suddenly becomes quite hard because you need to have great willpower to override your biology and resist said temptations to act according to your morals. Some people's morals or willpower are so strong that any desire immediately becomes a non-factor, but the opposite is also true for other people and any such decision turns into a struggle (porn addiction / hypersexuality). Everyone is still making a choice, but driven by different reasons.


Yes, I meant after the kiss because he kisses Lena anyway. You have a choice, to stop the kiss and push him away (that extraction you're talking about) or kissing him back which telegraphs your intention to proceed. Make up your mind on what you want from Lena. You want her to stop Axel or you want to make out with him knowing full well where it would lead? Your actions determine Lena's choice. If you choose to kiss him back, then it means Lena enjoys Axel's attention and wants more.

It's basically the same choice that was with Holly for Ian. You can either stop the kiss and tell her why you don't want to proceed, or you can respond to the kiss and end up having sex with her.

I get what you mean, I know you didn't mean it in the worst way. It's just what you said is a dangerous rationale that we must not let be perpetuated. It's an argument that is usually associated with "if she came, it wasn't rape", and it's usually used as an attempt to remove agency and blame from peoples actions. I know you meant neither of these things, I'm just saying it was language that we must be careful with.

I'm sure you can say for your own experience in real life, it's never your chemicals that decide what you do. Women aren't different in that regard.

When you really like a girl and you already have a girlfriend, it's not your chemicals that makes the decision to cheat on her or not. It's your willpower and something usually called "irrational rationality", a type of thinking and logical processing that occurs so fast that we don't even associate it with thinking.

It happens all the time. Things we think about in the past, our past experiences and our "brain molding" creates a sort of "algorithm", if you will (not really that, but the term is pretty close). If in the past you had modelled your brain to accept cheating, if you had already modelled this event in your mind and imagined it, you might make a decision that was entirely yours but "irrational" in the moment. You might go for a kiss in a situation you shouldn't.

It doesn't mean you are blameless and your "body made you do it". It was all your head, your logic, your thoughts that made the decision, you just made it long before the situation ever occured.

All this to say: even if the subslave Lena route is hot, I'm pretty sure hate and a new love interest would have overwritten her attraction to Axel. Besides: she already has scenes with Ian where she can be very submissive and he can be pretty dominante with her and with other characters, she doesn't need Axel for anything.

It cannot be denied that genetic determinism plays a significant role. Not in decision making, but in predispositions and the ceiling of the development of possibilities. "A man can do anything" is nothing more than a pleasant phrase from entertainers.

Genetic determinism is different, I wasn't really addressing that aspect. I was more talking about "my body made me do it", so we both agree with each other since you also say it doesn't affect decision making.

The brain is really weird and there are a lot of stuff circling around that has no empyrical data behind it.

 

[PervySageKem]

No better time to pull it, to be honest. Not to make this bigger than it is, but reasoning like that tends to encourage a kind of dissociation and removal of agency from oneself and one's actions that really serves no one.

It's also just kind of weird - not to say somewhat sexist - that anyone would believe a person's brain can be overridden just like that by musk and a pair of pecs. Like, if that's how it works we all might as well go full-on on the 2d girls, 'cause preventing a 3d one from cucking us would downright be too much work.

Absolutely true, we are 100% responsible for our own decisions. Great take.

 

[CoalPhelps]

It's not a bad analogy. Cindy is effectively Jessica from an earlier point in her arc, before she lost out on Dave and became a jaded party girl. All the more reason to keep Axel off her; if only it didn't require jumping through so many hoops.

I completely agree. I really hope that there will be an opportunity not only to cockblocking him, but also to bypass Mr. Aryan Assdiger.

 

[CoalPhelps]

Genetic determinism is different, I wasn't really addressing that aspect. I was more talking about "my body made me do it", so we both agree with each other since you also say it doesn't affect decision making.

The brain is really weird and there are a lot of stuff circling around that has no empyrical data behind it.

Of course, decisions are always made by us and the blame for them cannot be shifted to anything. But because of these oddities of the brain, completely unexpected factors and feelings can interfere with these decisions.

 

[CoalPhelps]

Anyway, for some reason, all my favorite developers here had some problems and difficulties with new updates at the same time. Therefore, I am glad that there are discussions — they allow you to brighten up the time for waiting.

 

[PervySageKem]

Anyway, for some reason, all my favorite developers here had some problems and difficulties with new updates at the same time. Therefore, I am glad that there are discussions — they allow you to brighten up the time for waiting.

Yeah, same for me. Good thing there are discussions so people can talk about these things and find new VNs to try out.

 

[BloodyMares]

All this to say: even if the subslave Lena route is hot, I'm pretty sure hate and a new love interest would have overwritten her attraction to Axel. Besides: she already has scenes with Ian where she can be very submissive and he can be pretty dominante with her and with other characters, she doesn't need Axel for anything.

Hate in Lena, while default, is not everlasting. If she meets with Axel in the cafe to talk, and they part ways in a civil manner, she stops hating him. Doesn't forgive him for cheating or anything, but isn't triggered by his presence anymore and is open to talk with him or even work with him once again. Nothing of that is possible if Lena hates Axel (relationship < 3). And while Ian can be dominant during sex, his sweet personality makes her think differently about Ian. Axel made Lena feel like she belonged to him, and she liked it. To be HIS and nobody else's. That made her feel safe and carefree, like a little girl in her father's arms. She could truly let go, and feel no shame in anything he made her do. That's a very powerful bond and requires years of being together to nurture that trust. With Ian it's nowhere near that level (yet) and that's why Axel has such an advantage at this stage in their lives and can so easily push all the right buttons when they're alone and cause Lena to bask in those familiar feelings and take advantage of those.

 

[dolfe67]

All this to say: even if the subslave Lena route is hot, I'm pretty sure hate and a new love interest would have overwritten her attraction to Axel. Besides: she already has scenes with Ian where she can be very submissive and he can be pretty dominante with her and with other characters, she doesn't need Axel for anything.

Have you got a problem that there is a choice? If you don't like that she fall for Axel again, just choose for her to refuse the kiss, it's that simple. But don't want for everyone else to think like you

 

[Deleted member 3064965]

Well, we still don’t have the full picture of the Lena/Cherry/Axel story. We got a bit of Lena and Cherry’s personal view.
And I think Lena and Cherry have to talk together, like suggested by Holly.

I’m sure that Axel has used both Lena and Cherry, I don’t see that Cherry is a bad person.

I don’t see Cherry as a bad person either, but her own account of what happened showed that she was more aware of what she was doing than I expected, at least. I’m sure there’s more stuff lined up for that path.

And while it surprised me that Cherry had sex with Axel when she knew he was cheating, I think it was an interesting twist. It wasn’t just the stereotypical alpha hunk who had all the blame, the seemingly more innocent Cherry was knowingly a part of it as well. I hope Lena will have a talk with her soon. (Also because I’m hoping for the unlikely event where Lena and Cherry end up in bed together again, without Axel.)

And while Ian can be dominant during sex, his sweet personality makes her think differently about Ian. Axel made Lena feel like she belonged to him, and she liked it. To be HIS and nobody else's. That made her feel safe and carefree, like a little girl in her father's arms. She could truly let go, and feel no shame in anything he made her do.

I agree on your general take that Axel offers something Ian doesn’t, even if Ian become more dominant in bed. And while I don’t doubt that Lena enjoyed her time with Axel, I’m not sure if it exactly was a healthy relationship for Lena. I think how it ended showed the negative side of their power balance as well — how being the submissive part (not only sexually) not only made her feel safe, but also put her in a very vulnerable position Axel could take advantage of.

My impression is that some of her anger also stems from that; she’s upset that she gave up control to such an extent. But my general prejudice against the Axel stereotype may very well be affecting my impression as well. Either way I find it believable that those objections vanished in the heat of the moment when they ended up together again in Axel’s bed.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

No better time to pull it, to be honest. Not to make this bigger than it is, but reasoning like that tends to encourage a kind of dissociation and removal of agency from oneself and one's actions that really serves no one.

It's also just kind of weird - not to say somewhat sexist - that anyone would believe a person's brain can be overridden just like that by musk and a pair of pecs. Like, if that's how it works we all might as well go full-on on the 2d girls, 'cause preventing a 3d one from cucking us would downright be too much work.

I agree with this. That being said, rationality doesn't make for the best porn scenarios or general dirty talk. "I've got suuch low self-esteem right now. And your well chiseled body coupled with my need to feel wanted and accepted due to an abandomnent complex is making me so. damn. hot! Regardless of who I might hurt in the process." Mind-control musk and dickmotized nymphos ftw in that regard. [monocle.gif].

 

[PervySageKem]

Have you got a problem that there is a choice? If you don't like that she fall for Axel again, just choose for her to refuse the kiss, it's that simple. But don't want for everyone else to think like you

I don't have anything against the choice, I do have against the fact that the MAIN CHARACTER can't also have that choice.

I am all open for having as many different as choices, just give the Main Character and the Main pairing the same amount of content. It's not that easy, specially since Eva reuses scenes from different characters.

 

[TheBlackGungir]

Have you got a problem that there is a choice? If you don't like that she fall for Axel again, just choose for her to refuse the kiss, it's that simple. But don't want for everyone else to think like you

I also think though the choice within the choice is the issues Ian legit can be Cindy as a choice and within that choice you can determine the relationship break up with Wade or Cheat with him as small as that choice is you don't really have that choice with Lena.
I personally don't mind the scene with Axel but the issue is it feels as though what you want from the relationship is the issues same with Seymour. An example would've been with the high enough stat or will you could've had the scene with Axel but afterward basically determining this was more for you and he is just Dick. I get it corruption route but again I feel as though the game suffers from this route because it makes scenes have way fewer options on one route because we don't get to determine what we want so some of us might miss scenes because we don't want corruption from Axel, Seymour or Robert we don't mind the scenes but from a story aspect I feel as though to some this feels very force and to formula of a corruption route.

Compare that to Ian Route where damn near no matter who you are and what you do it's hard as hell to miss sex scenes because he determines what he's want's while Lena route it's more up to the supporting characters what they want and if you don't want it then you miss a good chunk of content and the only real choice of relationship is Ian and maybe Louise.

 

[Sorrow85]

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Hi guys,

When it rains it pours, or so they say. Last time I told you about how I was falling behind with ORS' production due to burnout and some other issues and now I got the "unspecified virus of unknown origin", I've spent most of the week in bed feeling like shit, so production hasn't exactly ramped up.
I've been thinking about it for a while and I've decided that starting February I will put all charges on my page on hold. I feel I'm not giving you enough value for your money at this moment and it doesn't sit right with me.

I've said in the past that I'm the one looking forward to new releases the most, and that I really wish I could still publish every single month. I can't wait to realize the ideas I have for ORS and there are also several other projects in the back of my mind I'd love to bring to life at some point too. Taking too long to release a new chapter becomes stressful to me, especially considering this business model: a monthly subscription deserves to be rewarded by a flow of continuous content, and ORS is far from a finished piece. That means that work is never over, and as soon as the last chapter is released, pressure to get the next one ready starts lighting a fire under my feet. I've already talked about it in previous posts, but after more than 4 years of uninterrupted work and due to other personal issues, I found myself feeling quite burnt out after Chapter 9.

I know some of you kindly warned me about that pitfall but I guess I just ran with it because that was the only way I was able to keep myself on the loop, and I still stand by that choice. And because I want to get back in that loop, I want to feel at ease to keep working on this big project. I take your support really seriously, so the constant anxiety of delivering content worthy of your hard earned money has been eating at me. I'm not sure if I'm shooting myself in the foot here, but I think it's the right thing to do and it'll help me get back into things with less stress

I haven't been able to do that recently, so I'm looking to turn that around. So rest assured I will continue to work to bring you quality content and finish ORS like I've always intended to do. The review of the first 9 chapters + Stan's integral rework should not take much longer (it's already taken too long), followed by that Steam release I always talk about and I haven't been able to make a reality yet.

This was hard to write, I hope I did a good job. I know this is far from ideal and I hope I didn't make things sound worse than they actually are. There's a lot of cool stuff coming for ORS, I just want to get it out more efficiently. As always, I want to keep things open and transparent when it comes to the game's development. I'll keep you posted, so stay tuned for next week.
Thanks a bunch guys!

--------

 

[lockerxx]

i hope she gets better and gets back her energy.

 

[Ragnar]

That means that work is never over, and as soon as the last chapter is released, pressure to get the next one ready starts lighting a fire under my feet.

It's called work

 

[Homemade]

Man its sad to hear Eva kiss got an unspecified virus of unknown origin"

I hope she takes it easy her personal health and well-being definitely take precedence over the game or her patrons. And I pray she will get better soon. People who think she is a milker. She said this I will put all charges on my page on hold. I feel I'm not giving you enough value for your money at this moment and it doesn't sit right with me. This clearly shows me that Eva kiss is an honest, transparent creator and she deserves all the support she's getting and then some. I will definitely buy ORS on steam, it will be the first AVN game or any game that I will buy on steam but she definitely deserves it.

After this sad news, you guys definitely deserve something.


Ian Astley Serenading for all girls of ''ORS''



In the end, Ian Astley wants to say something to a few individuals. You guys shouldn't take these pictures seriously, these are meant for mentioned individuals...

 

[CoalPhelps]

I also think though the choice within the choice is the issues Ian legit can be Cindy as a choice and within that choice you can determine the relationship break up with Wade or Cheat with him as small as that choice is you don't really have that choice with Lena.
I personally don't mind the scene with Axel but the issue is it feels as though what you want from the relationship is the issues same with Seymour. An example would've been with the high enough stat or will you could've had the scene with Axel but afterward basically determining this was more for you and he is just Dick. I get it corruption route but again I feel as though the game suffers from this route because it makes scenes have way fewer options on one route because we don't get to determine what we want so some of us might miss scenes because we don't want corruption from Axel

Good point about Axel path. It would still be kind of corruption, but at the same time, Lena would give in to her desires not out of impulse, but simply for the sake of good sex. Because she wanted to, and not Axel persuaded her. Something like Kevin path or late Jack path (when first hook up after the club) from GGGB.

 

[dontcarewhateverno]

View attachment 1621800

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Hi guys,

When it rains it pours, or so they say. Last time I told you about how I was falling behind with ORS' production due to burnout and some other issues and now I got the "unspecified virus of unknown origin", I've spent most of the week in bed feeling like shit, so production hasn't exactly ramped up.
I've been thinking about it for a while and I've decided that starting February I will put all charges on my page on hold. I feel I'm not giving you enough value for your money at this moment and it doesn't sit right with me.

I've said in the past that I'm the one looking forward to new releases the most, and that I really wish I could still publish every single month. I can't wait to realize the ideas I have for ORS and there are also several other projects in the back of my mind I'd love to bring to life at some point too. Taking too long to release a new chapter becomes stressful to me, especially considering this business model: a monthly subscription deserves to be rewarded by a flow of continuous content, and ORS is far from a finished piece. That means that work is never over, and as soon as the last chapter is released, pressure to get the next one ready starts lighting a fire under my feet. I've already talked about it in previous posts, but after more than 4 years of uninterrupted work and due to other personal issues, I found myself feeling quite burnt out after Chapter 9.

I know some of you kindly warned me about that pitfall but I guess I just ran with it because that was the only way I was able to keep myself on the loop, and I still stand by that choice. And because I want to get back in that loop, I want to feel at ease to keep working on this big project. I take your support really seriously, so the constant anxiety of delivering content worthy of your hard earned money has been eating at me. I'm not sure if I'm shooting myself in the foot here, but I think it's the right thing to do and it'll help me get back into things with less stress

I haven't been able to do that recently, so I'm looking to turn that around. So rest assured I will continue to work to bring you quality content and finish ORS like I've always intended to do. The review of the first 9 chapters + Stan's integral rework should not take much longer (it's already taken too long), followed by that Steam release I always talk about and I haven't been able to make a reality yet.

This was hard to write, I hope I did a good job. I know this is far from ideal and I hope I didn't make things sound worse than they actually are. There's a lot of cool stuff coming for ORS, I just want to get it out more efficiently. As always, I want to keep things open and transparent when it comes to the game's development. I'll keep you posted, so stay tuned for next week.
Thanks a bunch guys!

--------

The variety and depth of fetishes and paths is a double-edged sword for this game & its success. At least for a solo-dev studio ( albeit with some part time workers & dedicated volunteers).

I don't think Eva would've gotten half of the user-base or patreon supporters she has without such a variety of paths to please so many people. But it's also proven to be too large an undertaking for a dev with shoestring resources.

A greater amount of pre-planning in paths and narrative consideration could have slashed at least 1/4 of the work here though. For instance, with a sketched out plot and some deep consideration at the planning stage, it could have been easy to tell there was little appeal to playing out a Robert path all the way through. Still want to incorporate some of the kinks involved? Simply incorporate them into another character users are more likely to select (say Mike or Axel). She'd still have to vary a few sex scenes for the character adopting those kinks, but would save a ton of time in the long run. As-is, there is so much content there that a majority of players will never see, even in multiple play-throughs. While many paths played often still have inconsistent text throughout.

Also: Illusion of choice = sometimes a good thing, when not overextended. People often bitch about the illusion of choice in visual novels and tbf it's often abused by creators. But it has its place and can help overall quality focus when not over-abused. ORS doesn't seem to have enough illusion of choice in that respect, considering the resources at hand.

I'm guilty of armchair devving here. But if I were in her shoes, I think I'd narrow the focus quite a bit in future projects, focusing more on quality and consistency of text in each choice made & incorporating a good deal more illusion of choice, with enough real choices to still be satisfying. Even having half the options and paths that ORS has is quite a bit more options than most any game in the adult vn genre. IMO, it would be just as satisfying or more (unless any of my fetishes were cut. Then "WTF Eva?!? Reeeeee". Kidding... sort of). The plethora of choices are a big part of what makes her work unique. But I think she could still stand to cut quite a bit while keeping that uniqueness.