VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Turret]

Couldn't agree more. I fail to see how Veronica with the bankruptcy issue looming over her business, thanks to Samson messing with it behind the lines, is the one who has the worst reasoning of the two to whore herself out, her own words, to get enough money to fix all the debts her gym has.

Felicia's husband (Elias?) is such a self centered asshole so enamored with the sound of his own voice that he didn't even realized when she was literally cumming a few paces from him. Meanwhile Felicia is a shrewd woman who choose to enter this competition to get her own network of contacts and money while doing a bit of revenge on her idiotic husband and getting some sexual fun.
Even if she has a noble goal i find really hard to believe she couldn't find another method to get her own funds while married with that moron.

I see your point about Veronica and would agree with you, if not for two things during the photo shot in her gym. These two things led me to my opinion that beside Lucy, Vera has the weakest reason to let Kathleen trample over her for a month.
Veronica is no dummy and has her suspicions about Sam, but in her own words, she thinks that this asshole just used a chance he saw. We as the MC know or believe we know, since Sam might have exaggerated his contribution to Vera´s woes, that Sam did something more to push her towards the Club than Veronica suspects.
But it is the second thing which convinced me of her comparatively "weak" reason to be a Carnation. After the photo shot, you can get a scene where the MC and Veronica talk about several things. During that talk it becomes obvious that Veronica knows(!), but seems to maybe out of stubborness not change course, that even a win in the Competition is nothing more than a temporary band-aid. The overhang she has with the gym and it´s surrounding arrangements is simply too much!
But since it was the Gym of her old trainer she got from him, Vera wants to save it at all costs. I really like that Veronica wants to live and fight for her dream, but this is too much. Her old trainer is dead and if he cared for her as much as Vera insinuated he would never want her to compete in Kath´s freak show just for the gym.
Veronica has the choice to get rid of the Gym before she finally sinks and start over with another Gym, one not such an enormous drain on the ressources for a single owner. She could live her dream without the PC Club.

This thing, together with Vera knowing that even a win is just a temporary relief, is what made me rank her reason for being a Carnation as weak. Rosi has simply no choice, criminals are onto her and a win will get them of her back forever. Considering the Carnations mingle with the Club members quite a bit during this month, Felicia might gain the connections she needs even without winning, but a win will give her quite some powerful connections and influence. Both will have substantial gains if they win and might even get a bit of help if they lose.(Depending on how we play the MC and if Edwin can nudge other characters to help)
But Veronica knows that a win for her in the competition is not really one, just a pause, a temporary relief. After the money from the PC Club runs out, if she would win, what then? As far as we know, Veronica is in dire straits, but has not sunk yet and the option to sell the gym before she is finally bankrupt. It is late, but not too late for her, to get out of the situation without taking part in the "Carnation games".

 

[selberdreher]

Okey, so we (all) agree that Rosie has the strongest reason and is the most deserving to win the competition. Period.

Patching a sinking ship to buy some time, untill perhaps rescue service arrives, is not the most unreasonable thing to do, especially after there are no lifeboats left. Veronicas problem is, that she has severely underestimated the price for patching her ship. She was under the impression that all it takes, is to do "just sexwork" and that it is "fast and easy". She depleted already other "good and easy" and "good and fast" options. So she had very few choices left.

Felicia on the other hand was not as limited in her options, being a well connected High-Society Lady, who is aquainted with lots of rich and influential people already. She had the prospects to network in e.g. charity work or the art community in the city or at the country club or other circles rich upper-class women have access to. But she chose deliberately the most questionable and risky option. I cant help to feel like the "shits and giggles and fun" (i love Felicia for her shits and giggles btw) played the biggest part in that choice, and this makes her choice and motivation a comparatively weak one.

Turrets` idea of "perhaps the best outcome for all three carnations is, if Felicia wins" is an interesting and valid one. Depending on ourEdwins guidance of the carnations, so that they perhaps become friends, i can see Felicia investing in Veronicas Gym and do some marketing for her to help her get back on her feet.
Rosies problem should be an easy fix, i always thought her 23.000$ debt is a relatively small one (i am not a rich guy, but to me it feels like the debt should be at least three times higher to be really concerning).
I just googled luxury handbags and found a 20.000€ Gucci one as first hit. Ian is willing to pay 5.000$ for a threesome with Edwin and Rosie. So with suitable friends, helping Rosie out should be a minor issue.
It really gives us a good impression how hard Rosie is struggling as a de-facto single mother.

 

[Codex07]

I really love this game story

 

[HoneyLibido]

I should probably do a save for a run without having Mina go unfaithful, probably closer to when another playthrough nets more outcome content for that.

Quite a few options to pursue here and their actially all very interesting to see how pursuing each one independently will vary than a standard harem end.

That said that Wednesday date with Felicia is kinda peak excitement for me right now but I'm guessing that's really far away because the next part is the 2nd Carnation event which I assume is the real big boi update periods?

 

[Turret]

Okey, so we (all) agree that Rosie has the strongest reason and is the most deserving to win the competition. Period.

Yes, we do! Maybe not the Kath and Chuck fans, since their goal is corruption fun.

Patching a sinking ship to buy some time, untill perhaps rescue service arrives, is not the most unreasonable thing to do, especially after there are no lifeboats left. Veronicas problem is, that she has severely underestimated the price for patching her ship. She was under the impression that all it takes, is to do "just sexwork" and that it is "fast and easy". She depleted already other "good and easy" and "good and fast" options. So she had very few choices left.

I agree on this to a certain point, you know my earlier posts on this topic. As I said back then, I do not want to make light on the problems of bankrupcy, but in the New World it is less problematic than here in the Old World. I know from enterprises in the US or Kanada where the boss went bankrupt multiple times(!) before until finally getting it right and it was viewed often as just a "so what?". Here in Europe you don ´t need to try for starter money if you went bankrupt 3-4 times before, period. So while Veronica´s situation is bad, it is not unsurmountable so.

Felicia on the other hand was not as limited in her options, being a well connected High-Society Lady, who is aquainted with lots of rich and influential people already. She had the prospects to network in e.g. charity work or the art community in the city or at the country club or other circles rich upper-class women have access to. But she chose deliberately the most questionable and risky option. I cant help to feel like the "shits and giggles and fun" (i love Felicia for her shits and giggles btw) played the biggest part in that choice, and this makes her choice and motivation a comparatively weak one.

Point taken, but Feli has an important reason to do it like this. Country Club connections and all that can be observed by her husband, since they are the same circles he is in or knows well. Felicia wants connections and infuence outside the reach and knowledge of Elias, which is why she came to the PC Club.
Elias made a big mistake and douche move, when he did not save Felicia´s hometown school after she begged for it and would have been peanuts for him. He is so rich, saving a small city school would hardly make a dent in his money bag, not to forget the good PR he could have gotten.
Felicia is understandably angry and that was the main reason she went to Carnations. Gaining power and influence outside her husband´s view, to have an Ace of her own in the hand and finally being able to rebuild/reopen the school for all the kids in her small home city. Considering her high sex drive, the "shit and giggles" stuff was just a bonus for her, which we already saw during the early competition rounds.

Turrets` idea of "perhaps the best outcome for all three carnations is, if Felicia wins" is an interesting and valid one. Depending on ourEdwins guidance of the carnations, so that they perhaps become friends, i can see Felicia investing in Veronicas Gym and do some marketing for her to help her get back on her feet.
Rosies problem should be an easy fix, i always thought her 23.000$ debt is a relatively small one (i am not a rich guy, but to me it feels like the debt should be at least three times higher to be really concerning).
I just googled luxury handbags and found a 20.000€ Gucci one as first hit. Ian is willing to pay 5.000$ for a threesome with Edwin and Rosie. So with suitable friends, helping Rosie out should be a minor issue.
It really gives us a good impression how hard Rosie is struggling as a de-facto single mother.

Thank you! Here we have to give a big thumbs up to the creators, TD1900 and GIL3D, because even here choices will matter, the various paths already starting to play out differently.
If we play Edwin as a nice and decent lad, who wants to help the 3 Carnations attain their goals, we might get it in the End, I am quite sure. And where he gets the girl of his dreams exclusively, be it Hana, Mina or one of the Carnations. (Maybe even one of the "side" girls, as a curve ball)
But we might also gain success, if said nice Edwin likes much fun in the bed (being a bit to medium corrupted, even high corruption, if thoughness stays lowish). Having fun with the Carnations and still helping them.
We will also see, I am sure of it considering how different certain paths already play out, a harder Edwin, helping the Carnations for substantial own gains. Or an Edwin helping them, but his gains surpassing those of the 3 girls.
Then there are the possibilities of an Edwin helping just one or two Carnations, throwing the other under the bus for it.
Last but not least there are numerous path variants of a thoroughly corrupted Edwin or one siding with Kath and/or Chuck, where the Carnations might get what they want, but only by staying/working with the Club.
And then are the really dark paths with the new drugs, human trafficking and other stuff.

 

[▌Gin ▐]

[VN] [Ren'Py] ███
This is the Italian translation of Pale Carnations [Ch. 3 Update 3 Public]

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**This translation is "unofficial" and "made by a fan"**

 

[selberdreher]

So while Veronica´s situation is bad, it is not unsurmountable so.

"Cut your losses and move on" is a very rational thing to do, but can be quite hard if you are emotionally attached to something.
Lots of people stay in an objectively toxic relationship, because they hope they can turn it around, if they just invest enough effort into it.
Or less dramatic, but from personal experience: My first Motorcycle was a lovely Lady from 1973, around 20+ years old back then, and she had a lot of issues. I poured a lot of money (relatively, i was still a student back then) and time into her, but i rarely ever drove her. Whenever one part was fixed you could be sure another one broke down not long after.
My Mother took my motorcycle to the junkyard while i was studying abroad (rational thing to do, no emotional attachment); i am still angry with her.

 

[Milflover1010]

Will their be any sexual content with MCs mom Victoria in future?

 

[selberdreher]

Feli has an important reason to do it like this.

Yup, youre right, i overlooked the Elias factor in her decision.
Still, when Felicia and Edwin sat down in her secret place, and she told me about her reason to join the competition my (as Player) first impulse was like "Are You fucking kidding me? Why would you do that?!" and choosing the "She IS being dumb" option; but of course i went with the diplomatic "caution her, but you believe she can do it" one. i am rooting for her, i really do, but i think chances are low, that she will be ever anything more than a glorified whore to the other club members; look at Kathleens position in that regard. She is playing a high risk game here.

 

[selberdreher]

Will their be any sexual content with Veronica in future?

Veronica is the tall redhead Carnation, she already had plenty of content. Do you mean someone else?

 

[Turret]

"Cut your losses and move on" is a very rational thing to do, but can be quite hard if you are emotionally attached to something.
Lots of people stay in an objectively toxic relationship, because they hope they can turn it around, if they just invest enough effort into it.
Or less dramatic, but from personal experience: My first Motorcycle was a lovely Lady from 1973, around 20+ years old back then, and she had a lot of issues. I poured a lot of money (relatively, i was still a student back then) and time into her, but i rarely ever drove her. Whenever one part was fixed you could be sure another one broke down not long after.
My Mother took my motorcycle to the junkyard while i was studying abroad (rational thing to do, no emotional attachment); i am still angry with her.

That is true, cutting your losses can be really hard, if emontions are involved. Kath seems to have a nose for cases like this, since she makes the choices among the various candidates.
I am no motorcyclist, but know a bit about them. Who was the manufacturer: BMW, Zündapp, Adler, Horex, Kreidler, Simson, NSU or Kalex? Because I know how loyal some fans were/are to some types.

Yup, youre right, i overlooked the Elias factor in her decision.
Still, when Felicia and Edwin sat down in her secret place, and she told me about her reason to join the competition my (as Player) first impulse was like "Are You fucking kidding me? Why would you do that?!" and choosing the "She IS being dumb" option; but of course i went with the diplomatic "caution her, but you believe she can do it" one. i am rooting for her, i really do, but i think chances are low, that she will be ever anything more than a glorified whore to the other club members; look at Kathleens position in that regard. She is playing a high risk game here.

Feli is definitely playing a high risk game here, as far as her win and her following gains are concerned. She knows it herself, she mentions it. It won´t be easy, but she has the chance to succeed. Not only because of her looks, but she has a uniique selling point. She has/is THE inside connection into Elias Ford´s little Empire and we already saw that there are a couple Club members, who would like nothing more than to gain access or infos to use.
And I think most of them would underestimate how crafty and intelligent Felicia truly is. And there might even be a couple who would truly appreciate her for who she is. But since there are sharks among thems, it is not an easy game to play.

 

[Milflover1010]

Veronica is the tall redhead Carnation, she already had plenty of content. Do you mean someone else?
[/QUOTEits it's Victoria or MCs mom i messed up

 

[selberdreher]

Who was the manufacturer

it was a Kreidler LH, Chrome Tank, Leg Shield and off-road tires.

 

[selberdreher]

its Victoria or MCs mom i messed up

read my post #4172 a few pages above about that, i believe she will get some scenes. but afaik there isnt any official statement yet.

 

[selberdreher]

And I think most of them would underestimate how crafty and intelligent Felicia truly is.

this

 

[Turret]

View attachment 1598644 View attachment 1598679
it was a Kreidler LH, Chrome Tank, Leg Shield and off-road tires.

Nice bike, considering that Kreidler was bought off in 1982, no wonder you had problems with getting good parts for it. Their bankrupcy was one thing that could have been avoided. The leadership invested too late in more modern equipment.

 

[selberdreher]

Nice bike, considering that Kreidler was bought off in 1982, no wonder you had problems with getting good parts for it. Their bankrupcy was one thing that could have been avoided. The leadership invested too late in more modern equipment.

Yeah, but lets close this case about my bike now, since it could be considered off-topic and therefore rightfully get deleted by mods. Initially i shared it cuz i thought it was a funny story and illustrates a bit better Veronicas mindset about her gym.

 

[ename144]

I don't think so, or it would depend on the MC's toughness. With a nice MC it could lead to a 3some with them. Hana is not on an exclusive gf mindset, she knows he has sex with the carnations and she likes Mina

I don't know. For all Hana's affectations, she's been pretty reserved when it comes to her relationships from what we've seen. IMHO she'd absolutely be up for a threesome with Mina under the right circumstances, but I think she'd want a better idea of where she (and Mina) stands with the MC if it ever came to pass. I don't think Hana would be interested in an 'open' relationship.

Do you think so? Will Ian cry at her funeral or even attend it? Does he try to become a better man for her? Will he mourn for their relationship when she breaks up? No, at best Killian LIKES Mina, which is probably more than he felt with his other flings.
In my opinion there are exactly two people for whom Killian has deep feelings: Victoria and Edwin. This whole playboy habit he displays is to fill a void which cannot be filled, because he cant be with his true love: Victoria. I even get the feeling Ian would be relieved if Ewin takes Mina out of his hands, because he knows that he cant do her justice. The Love towards Edwin is a bit different, because i dont think he is gay or bisexual, but i think he would be delighted to share his female partners to be close to Edwin by Proxy.

As Turret said, Ian's been taught to think of relationships as cynical, transactional things. That was his excuse for why he was so uncaring towards Mina:


And you can see shades of that if the MC tells him Mina found the tumbdrive:


IMHO, it seems like Ian did have some genuine feelings for Mina, but he's trained himself to downplay them because that's how it's "supposed" to work. The fact that even now Mina isn't behaving the way she's supposed to is unnervingly confusing for him because it makes it harder to downplay those feelings. Of course, that makes him feel like shit since he treated Mina horribly, so it's no surprise that he's still trying to cling to the idea that she never really cared about him and this is all some sort of con.

To me, that suggests that if we take Mina up on her offer, Ian probably will be gone for good. It's not about the MC 'betraying' him, it's just that we would provide the perfect proof that he was right to be cynical: his behavior didn't hurt Mina in the slightest. She might even be better off for it. No need for painful introspection - full sleaze ahead!

On the other hand, if we pressure Ian to stop being an asshole and make it up to Mina, there's a chance he could start to change. The relationship might still be dead (that's really up to Mina), but it's the only chance I see to pull Ian out of the self-destructive spiral he's in. It's also the right thing to do, which is a nice plus.

Yes, we do! Maybe not the Kath and Chuck fans, since their goal is corruption fun.

I agree on this to a certain point, you know my earlier posts on this topic. As I said back then, I do not want to make light on the problems of bankrupcy, but in the New World it is less problematic than here in the Old World. I know from enterprises in the US or Kanada where the boss went bankrupt multiple times(!) before until finally getting it right and it was viewed often as just a "so what?". Here in Europe you don ´t need to try for starter money if you went bankrupt 3-4 times before, period. So while Veronica´s situation is bad, it is not unsurmountable so.

It can vary a bit even here in the States. The tech industry has a famously high tolerance for initial failures. Owning a gym may not be as forgiving; there's a much higher upfront cost and much lower expected returns if the business works out. Veronica might have a hard time getting started on a new gym, especially if she goes into bankruptcy with minimal assets relative to her expenses. It would probably be a long process, which raises the question of what Veronica would do for a living until she's ready to start again. With Samson working against her it may be difficult to make ends meet as a freelance trainer, though admittedly Veronica wouldn't know that.

That's not to say Veronica isn't overly fixated on keeping the gym open. She's a very prideful woman, and the gym is dear to her heart; it's clear she's not entirely rational in her assessment. But it's not JUST about her feelings. There are valid reasons for Veronica to want to keep her current business going if possible. And now that she's involved with the Club, dropping out is not a viable option. Even ignoring Samson, Kathleen is clearly vindictive enough to punish Veronica if she does anything to ruin the Exhibition.

Point taken, but Feli has an important reason to do it like this. Country Club connections and all that can be observed by her husband, since they are the same circles he is in or knows well. Felicia wants connections and infuence outside the reach and knowledge of Elias, which is why she came to the PC Club.
Elias made a big mistake and douche move, when he did not save Felicia´s hometown school after she begged for it and would have been peanuts for him. He is so rich, saving a small city school would hardly make a dent in his money bag, not to forget the good PR he could have gotten.
Felicia is understandably angry and that was the main reason she went to Carnations. Gaining power and influence outside her husband´s view, to have an Ace of her own in the hand and finally being able to rebuild/reopen the school for all the kids in her small home city. Considering her high sex drive, the "shit and giggles" stuff was just a bonus for her, which we already saw during the early competition rounds.

It really depends on how you look at it. Sure, the Club would give her access to a network beyond Elias, but that only helps if the network is willing to help her. Based on what Kathleen and Harper have said (and done), it's not clear they would. Even if Felecia wins I think most patrons would give her the same level of respect than Elias did. So it's a questionable fix.

Felicia's core problem is that she thinks sex appeal is all she's good for. She can't really comprehend the idea of building up her own network of contacts using the tools she already has at her disposal. That's why I grade her objective as the least compelling of the Carnations; even if she wins, it's uncertain if she'd be better off than if she lost and was forced to develop her other talents. Veronica may not be making the best choices, but a pile of cash will address a bunch of her problems. (Obviously Rosalind is far and a way the one with the best reason to win.)

Of course when you get down to it, the Exhibition is just the means to an end. I'd love it if we could find a way to solve all the girls' problems outside the Club and they could bail in the final week en masse. Granted, that would be all but impossible to pull off (as I mentioned, Kathleen is vindicitve), but it would be exceptionally satisfying.

 

[selberdreher]

As Turret said, Ian's been taught to think of relationships as cynical, transactional things. That was his excuse for why he was so uncaring towards Mina:

And you can see shades of that if the MC tells him Mina found the tumbdrive:

IMHO, it seems like Ian did have some genuine feelings for Mina, but he's trained himself to downplay them because that's how it's "supposed" to work.

This may be, but i am not sitting on my hands watching Mina get screwed over and over again, until Killian eventually (or not) sorts out his issues. After all Mina is the victim here, and i am not willing to sacrifice her to better Ian. MyEdwin tried to stay a friend to Ian and even covered some of his shit he pulled, but there needs to be a line. I am honest: I and MyEdwin are interested in Mina also, so that is not entirely altruistic; but it is neither myEdwins nor Minas job to clean up the mess Killians emotional life is.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

It really depends on how you look at it. Sure, the Club would give her access to a network beyond Elias, but that only helps if the network is willing to help her. Based on what Kathleen and Harper have said (and done), it's not clear they would. Even if Felecia wins I think most patrons would give her the same level of respect than Elias did. So it's a questionable fix.

Felicia's core problem is that she thinks sex appeal is all she's good for. She can't really comprehend the idea of building up her own network of contacts using the tools she already has at her disposal. That's why I grade her objective as the least compelling of the Carnations; even if she wins, it's uncertain if she'd be better off than if she lost and was forced to develop her other talents. Veronica may not be making the best choices, but a pile of cash will address a bunch of her problems. (Obviously Rosalind is far and a way the one with the best reason to win.)

Of course when you get down to it, the Exhibition is just the means to an end. I'd love it if we could find a way to solve all the girls' problems outside the Club and they could bail in the final week en masse. Granted, that would be all but impossible to pull off (as I mentioned, Kathleen is vindicitve), but it would be exceptionally satisfying.

Pretty much this. Felicia was the one better situated to choose how to go after her objectives of bulding her network of contacts and gaining her own funds thanks to being a socialite married to a inattentive (to say the least) husband. And yet she decided to not use any of this and instead go down the route of dealing with a bunch shady individuals in a sex club.

That is a far cry from Veronica needing money fast to save her business which is very dear to her and Rosalind being threatened by a loan shark. Hell even Lucy trying to give her son a better future, via education, had less choices on where to look for "help" than Felicia.