VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[BrockLanders]

If and how this plays out is still to be seen, however i believe Kathleen is aware and/or afraid of her advances towards Edwin could fail. Victoria is the main obstacle on this path for her, but her influence on Edwin is still way stronger than than Kathleens, so she can't oppose Victoria openly and instead tries to reaffirm Edwin that by following her path he will not alienate his mother and loose her love.

I mostly agree... I believe Mrs. Pullman stated in conversation that Edwin's biggest obstacle preventing him from giving himself over to his sadistic desires (her motive that we can agree on) is his tendency towards introspection. I don't think it's Victoria being the impediment as much as it is his overall perception of women being colored positively by her in his past... no matter their choices. And Mrs. Pullman is now surrounding him with women who have made similar choices (hoping to gloss over the coercive framework she directs) but instead of reinforcing his introspective empathy, she is trying to show that they are undeserving of it and it is 'misplaced' in the hopes that he will then reassess his loyalty towards his mother. We might concede that Victoria is more of a symbol of the obstacle Mrs. Pullman faces obscuring her goal of creating a sadistic padawan.

I have also outlined my reasoning in my post "Why Victoria will have sex-scenes" so take a look there if you are interested.

Good stuff there. I wonder what Mrs. Pullman could blackmail Victoria with to make her become a participant if Victoria seems quite financially stable. Then, Edwin already knows about her porn, and Edwin can just out Kathleen in defense of his mother what with all the information he knows about the club. Her biggest obstacle here may very well be Uncle Chuck not even letting it all get to that point.

In my playthrough i went full into this mess, with among all of the NPCs having only Kathleens affection maxed out, despite i (and MyEdwin) resent her the most. MyEdwin oscillates heavily between those two poles, with on the one side trying to get on Kathleens good side and gain her trust, and on the other side always calling Victoria after the exhibitions and even spending the night at home. I am looking forward to how this drama will play out:

I have 10 playthroughs including single focus on each Carnation, a Hana/Mina/Felicia Hail Mary, a sadistic Kathleen positive run, a Kathleen + Full Deal run, a Killian bromance run where I'm an utter ass, a Hana run, a run where I creampied Hana (hmm), a Mina run, and my myEdwin first run where I ended up dating Hana and now, I'm worried about bringing up Mina's list to her... my exhibition performance has been slightly disappointing to Mrs. Pullman as I would expect if I were in that situation. I also borrowed the money for Rose from Felicia. Oof. I agree, I really, really look forward to these unanswered questions and I'm sure I won't be disappointed in being proven wrong to any degree!

However, and i try not to advocate for incest here, because this is by now totally and irrefutably put to rest, i am wondering about a possible revenge scenario and i want to preface it with a thought about what is incest and for whom.

I get where you're coming from here... against his will, at the pleasure of Mrs. Pullman and the club. Again, Uncle Chuck would be the biggest impediment here. There are so many wheels to turn to make it happen, but I see where you are taking me.

I also believe that if it ever came to that before a forced and public incestual display... Edwin would look at Mrs. Pullman, and then at Victoria ("Edwin please, I sense the good in you.") ... and back to Mrs. Pullman... and then he would pick Kathleen up and raise her over his head like an Olympic weightlifter. Edwin would be shocked severely by Mrs. Pullman's remote collar and giant powered dildos- her fingertips arcing lightning and dropping anal toys on the floor around her... but Edwin would find the strength to walk out of the exhibition hall and hurl her down the utility cooling shaft to her supposed death... arcs of electricity grounding against him and the walls as she fell into the nothing. Wheezing and quickly losing the will to go on, Edwin would collapse shortly afterwards... Hana would find him as they evacuated the club and pull him by his giant erection to safety. She would take off his glasses and Edwin would look upon Hana with his own eyes and say, "you were right, tell your mother... you were riiiiiiiiiight." And we the collective readers would fucking cry our eyes out with our dicks in our hands while many of us exclaimed, "not MY mother!" And Edwin dies, his dick unsoiled by his mom's hawt vaj juices.

And this is why I have no talent for this. XD

Heresy! I am currently sporting three different updates on my small harddrive as you should do too!

Help.

I have a Ryzen 3 based 240GB smut lappy that has a gigantic depravity well made up of pretty much everything I've ever wanted to keep around. No more rooooooooooooom.

I plan to finally play the latest update from the beginning this weekend, because i just took a short glimpse on it after it went finally public.
And after this i am looking forward to all those reviews i avoided since the update leaked 3 weeks ago. Didn't want to spoiler me.

You are going to have so much goddamn fun. This Hana update makes 9 1/2 Weeks look like Green Eggs & Ham.

 

[TD1900]

I understand. However from the walkthrough, there's supposed to be a part where there's a short encounter with Mina and I get to make two choices in which one involves telling Mina about the date with Hana. The event should be made possible by the fact that I chose Mina to go to after week 2's exhibition.

Likewise, there was supposed to be some content after selecting Victoria as the person to visit.

Unless the walkthrough is mistaken?

You can see the attachment in my previous post.

Aye, this update has 4 distinct openings, dependant on who you go to at the end of exhibition 2. You say you selected Mina, but then which opening are you getting? Are you using any mods?

 

[selberdreher]

We might concede that Victoria is more of a symbol of the obstacle Mrs. Pullman faces obscuring her goal of creating a sadistic padawan.

Personally i do believe, that Victoria is more than just a symbol of an obstacle to Kathleens goal. There a quite a few encounters and conversations between Edwin and Kathleen which provided her already a good, yet perhaps still incomplete picture of the tremendous influence Victoria has on her son and subsequently his views. Don't forget Victoria and Kathleen had also an extensive chat about her lovely son, a move Edwin wasn't very fond of.
A padawan can only follow one master, there is no room for a second one.

I wonder what Mrs. Pullman could blackmail Victoria with to make her become a participant if Victoria seems quite financially stable.

We established that Kathleen is the weakest of those three owners. But she is by no means powerless, and her strength is primarily her connections with the respectable and morally upright part of the higher society. Running the exhibitions and managing HR at the club is kind of her side-gig, first and foremost she presents herself as a devout and loving wife of a respected (ex-)judge and CEO of a big charity fund.

Victorias greatest weakness is her reputation, which can be shattered more than easily, and i wouldn't also underestimate the frailty of her financial situation.

Spoiler: Victoria got her current job rather recently and had to give up a lot of other jobs for undisclosed reasons

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Since Victoria doesn't strike me as incompetent, lazy or unmotivated we can likely blame those many job changes to either the discovery of her porn past by her employers, which is often not kindly looked at, or the spread of rumours about her past by her fellow co-workers which ultimately led to her dismissal by her employers or her own resignation.
It looks like those rumours and discoveries just relatively recently faded away, but can be stirred up obviously very fast again.

The other aspect would be Edwins education which costs an insane amount of money. It's pretty clear that Victoria hasn't payed into a college fund for Edwin in the last twenty years, and like a lot of mothers she may feel obligated to contribute to her childrens livelihood. Of course Edwin wouldn't take direct payments from her, but mothers tend to find ways to support their sons for the flimsiest of reasons. Like buying socks and underwear or stacking the fridge with food or washing their laundry. All those things aren't free, they cost money.

So threatening her current job situation could concern Victoria enough to cave into Kathleens demands.
Kathleen could also directly take this next step, orchestrating for Victoria to loose her current job and after that using her tried and true Eden Relief Fund charity. She could use stooges for it and present herself as a saviour.

Since she is Edwins boss, she could also threaten Victoria with Edwins dismissal, "as we can't allow our respectable establishment to be tarnished by the likes of you." (lol)

The second viable path could be of course to threaten her to expose her past to Edwin or Ian or the Beauforts, which could scare Victoria enough to submit. Because Vicky doesn't know that Edwin already is aware and may also be afraid to damage her relation to Ian.

A third angle of attack could be perhaps over Vickys dating app, sending a henchman into her house to create some kind of disruption.

Kathleens also doesn't necessarily have to involve the club to this, why not pull some degrading shit off in Vickys own home?
Strikes me as even more fitting for her.
I dunno, i am confident that Kathleen can find alot better ways to pull this off, since she is a professional in it for many years now.

 

[BeLikeWater]

Aye, this update has 4 distinct openings, dependant on who you go to at the end of exhibition 2. You say you selected Mina, but then which opening are you getting? Are you using any mods?

I'm using the walkthrough mod while referring to the walkthrough in the OP. The only thing I've done with the cheats is to get points I would have otherwise missed by selecting another option. I've replayed the whole game from scratch to see if I missed out on anything. I get full Hana content if I invite Veronica back home. However, I go to Mina's or Victoria's, the update ends immediately after the short stay there.

I've attached my saves for reference. The following are the keypoints for the respective saves.

1	Vero route, Hana GF
2	Week 2 after exhibition split with Mina
3	Vero route, Hana fuck buddies
4	Vero route, Mina & Hana two timing
5	Vero route, Mina casual lover, Hana fuck buddies

Really appreciate your help on this

 

[Turret]

However, and i try not to advocate for incest here, because this is by now totally and irrefutably put to rest, i am wondering about a possible revenge scenario and i want to preface it with a thought about what is incest and for whom.

Consider a predatory father, and in real life i would assume this is the most prevalent one, who is sexually attracted to his daughter. Let's not burden this with pedophilia, so let's say she is already post-puberty, and his craving is not reciprocated by his daughter, however he coerces her by blackmail, violence, drugs or even gets her 'consent' by manipulation, money or any other measure a sexual predator would use, into performing a sort of sexual activity.
I would argue the incest in this scenario is very one sided, opposed to let's say a brother-sister couple who enter a sexual relationship based on their attraction to each other. In reality, whereas this sexual activity may satisfy the incest kink of the father, it's plain rape for the unwilling and sexual abuse of a daughter who had 'consented'.

So if we apply above methods to a coupling in which both participants are neither sexually attracted nor really consenting, can we still call it incest? Like a sadistic soldier forcing a mother to perform (lapdance, HJ, BJ, you name it) with her son at gunpoint? For his pleasure only?
I would say no.

Hi selberdreher !
While it was not my main focus, I have some criminalistic studies under my belt. And it might be some years since that time, but I am sure the raw generalities have not changed much in the meantime.
The predatory father in your scenario above is the most common type of offender there by a margin. A smaller, but significant group are the "seducers", who work more via manipulation and seduction. The smallest group are the fathers running in open doors because the daughters are receptive to the advances or even sometimes sent out signals of their own.
But the margin by which the "predators" outnumber the other two is thought to be smaller than seen on first look. The number of cases where the "seducers" due to their methods are never found out is higher than with the "predators".

Not to speak of the cases where father and daughter consensually hop into bed together. Here the cases coming out are only those with bad luck or circumstances. The dark figure on consensual father-daughter cases is estimated to be higher than many people think. Small seen on the whole, but more common than often thought.
That´s just as some info.

But no matter if we have fully criminal cases or consensual cases of father-daughter, mom-son or brother-sister for PC this is not relevant, we agree on this. Victoria´s role is more a kind of story device, she is an anchor and part rolemodel for Edwin.

 

[TD1900]

Really appreciate your help on this

The save in front of Veronica worked for me as intended. Mina night went to Mina morning, Victoria night went to Victoria morning, and so on and so on. I suspect your issue might be owed to the walkthrough mod. I would recommend trying a fresh extraction of the game with all the original scripts in tact, and see if that solves the problem.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Yeah seems like a case of cheating messing with the game. All too common in this forum.

 

[selberdreher]

The predatory father in your scenario above is the most common type of offender there by a margin. A smaller, but significant group are the "seducers", who work more via manipulation and seduction.

Yeah, i kinda threw them together, with the "seducers" using the 'softer' approaches, whereas the "predators" are using some kind of force. Since incest is a criminal offense in our country i tried to outline what i was 'feeling' (because i am not a law professional) would be considered as incest in our society and especially in jurisprudence.

Turns out i was half-correct:
the overpowering majority of those cases would be indeed prosecuted by other penal norms than §173 (the incest paragraph) which is interestingly placed in section §169 to §173, covering felonies against family, marriage and marital status. Other felonies mentioned in that particular section are e.g. polygamy or withholding child support.
Infact there are such few cases of incest prosecuted there isn't even a statistic for it. So one may think 'oh, there isn't much incest happening then?' Well, no and yes.
Legally most cases would be prosecuted by norms covered in section §174 to §184 which is labelled "Felonies against the right of sexual self-determination" and includes felonies like child-abuse, rape, sexual harassment, forced prostitution and the like.
Practically for every case in which one party couldn't consent, was too young to consent or was coerced/manipulated to 'consent'.

Ok, so which sexual actions between blood-related family members are legally recognized as incest and punishable by law then?
This is the part where my feeling and probably also societal expectations likely diverge from the legal view:
basically only heterosexual, vaginal intercourse between siblings, children and parents and grandchildren and grandparents is considered incest and punishable by §173. And if both participants are under the age of 18 it's considered incest but not punishable.

Fucking your cousin or niece? safe, if consensual and the pertinent age restrictions are respected.
Fucking your daddy in his arsehole? safe, if consensual and the pertinent age restrictions are respected.
Mommy scissoring her daughter? safe, if consensual and the pertinent age restrictions are respected.
Daddy getting a nice sloppy blowjob from his daughter? safe, if consensual and the pertinent age restrictions are respected.
Mommy helps her son to relief stress with her DDD boobs? safe, if consensual and the pertinent age restrictions are respected.
20 yo sister and 16yo brother try the 69? safe, if consensual
15 yo old brother deflorates his 14 yo sister? technically forbidden, but not punishable if she has consented

Welcome to germany!

 

[BeLikeWater]

The save in front of Veronica worked for me as intended. Mina night went to Mina morning, Victoria night went to Victoria morning, and so on and so on. I suspect your issue might be owed to the walkthrough mod. I would recommend trying a fresh extraction of the game with all the original scripts in tact, and see if that solves the problem.

Noted, thanks a lot! This is the first time a walkthrough mod has ever done this to me.

 

[Turret]

Yeah, i kinda threw them together, with the "seducers" using the 'softer' approaches, whereas the "predators" are using some kind of force. Since incest is a criminal offense in our country i tried to outline what i was 'feeling' (because i am not a law professional) would be considered as incest in our society and especially in jurisprudence.

Turns out i was half-correct:
the overpowering majority of those cases would be indeed prosecuted by other penal norms than §173 (the incest paragraph) which is interestingly placed in section §169 to §173, covering felonies against family, marriage and marital status. Other felonies mentioned in that particular section are e.g. polygamy or withholding child support.
Infact there are such few cases of incest prosecuted there isn't even a statistic for it. So one may think 'oh, there isn't much incest happening then?' Well, no and yes.
Legally most cases would be prosecuted by norms covered in section §174 to §184 which is labelled "Felonies against the right of sexual self-determination" and includes felonies like child-abuse, rape, sexual harassment, forced prostitution and the like.
Practically for every case in which one party couldn't consent, was too young to consent or was coerced/manipulated to 'consent'.

Ok, so which sexual actions between blood-related family members are legally recognized as incest and punishable by law then?
This is the part where my feeling and probably also societal expectations likely diverge from the legal view:
basically only heterosexual, vaginal intercourse between siblings, children and parents and grandchildren and grandparents is considered incest and punishable by §173. And if both participants are under the age of 18 it's considered incest but not punishable.

Fucking your cousin or niece? safe, if consensual and the pertinent age restrictions are respected.
Fucking your daddy in his arsehole? safe, if consensual and the pertinent age restrictions are respected.
Mommy scissoring her daughter? safe, if consensual and the pertinent age restrictions are respected.
Daddy getting a nice sloppy blowjob from his daughter? safe, if consensual and the pertinent age restrictions are respected.
Mommy helps her son to relief stress with her DDD boobs? safe, if consensual and the pertinent age restrictions are respected.
20 yo sister and 16yo brother try the 69? safe, if consensual
15 yo old brother deflorates his 14 yo sister? technically forbidden, but not punishable if she has consented

Welcome to germany!

Welcome to the world of the German Civil Law, a major branch variant of the Civil Law Systems! Based on old Roman law, old Germanic law and a truckload of own inventions and innovations over time, it is the law foundation of many European countries, former colonies (like in the case of Portugal), Asia minor (Turkey) and East Asia (Japan, South Korea and Taiwan).
Part of the package is that most things are codified, you can always look up your rights, duties, liberties and penalties. At least the basics, some law forms are extremly complex (like everywhere) and need lawyers to navigate through safely.

The situation around the §173-184ff. is not overly complex, but have their nuances. That only full vaginal intercourse counts for §173 is because of the possibility of children sired. For instance giving your 20 years old daughter a consensual, thorough muffdive cannot impregnate her, so not very much a problem from the law side.
The "Incest-paragraph" 173 features so rarely in the statistics not because the act is so rare, but because of the dark figures (never caught) and the typical precedure if caught. §173 is seen as consensual deeds, since the law would hit you with other laws like abuse, coercion, rape, etc. first if that were the case. Typically §173 offences end with admittance of the deed, no public audience if they admit, a normally rather low penalty and that is the end of it. Since then there is a solution found before the judge had to rule, they do not count as "full" cases in the statistics.
But not everything is "so lax". For instance, the prosecution can hit you with "abuse of wards" even if consensual and no age restrictions applying, depending on the situation. But as one can imagine that is for when sired children come into the mix or other offences. That is a very rough summary, there is more to it, but functioning as a general overview.

 

[selberdreher]

Welcome to the world of the German Civil Law, a major branch variant of the Civil Law Systems!

You meant german Penal Law (StGB) instead Civil Law which is covered by the BGB.

And yes, i am aware of those restrictions around the age of consent, those restrictions about if one party is dependent on the other party (wards and custody and parentship), this was my reason why i haven't specified e.g. the boobjob from mommy with an age: if both are over 18 it's legal for sure, but i think even giving a boobjob to a 16 yo son could be legal under certain conditions.
But i didn't wanted to delve to deep in those intricate specifics.
Basically if it's not consensual it's not incest, but something else (child-abuse, rape etc.) and if it's consensual it's also mostly not incest, except for a very specific sexual activity.

My main point was simply the surprisingly narrow definition of what is incest from a german penal law perspective.

 

[Turret]

You meant german Penal Law (StGB) instead Civil Law which is covered by the BGB.

That´s "translation at work", I know that it is the StGB penal law, but in English the whole law complex is called German Civil Law. Which in this case is used to divide it from Common Law systems, Civil Law can be Zivilrecht, but also the the name for the whole Rechtssystem. I should have used "Deutscher Rechtskreis"(German legal sphere), but even then it is often just called German Civil Law.

 

[dolfe67]

This is going too much offtopic into incest, not even present in this game

 

[Carl0sDanger]

I dunno, i am confident that Kathleen can find alot better ways to pull this off, since she is a professional in it for many years now.

I'm sure she could, but what I don't get is why? Why would she do this?

To get the MC's help? He's already helping.

To get some kind of dirt that could be used to blackmail him later? She already has video of the "exhibition".

Going after the MCs mother would be a desperate gamble. Kat wouldn't play that card unless she felt she had to.

To return to a point I made upthread, Kat going after the MC's mother would immediately make the entire story about that. The relationships the MC has developed, the slow-burn corruption overarching everything, the competition itself, all that goes out the window. The MC isn't going to be interested in any of the problems that any of the girls have at that point. Not if he's going to remain a believable character anyway.

Once the MC's participation becomes forced, it's a different game.

 

[selberdreher]

I'm sure she could, but what I don't get is why? Why would she do this?
(...)

Let me preface my answer. Contrary to the impression one could get when reading the last page, this is not about Kathleen forcing Edwin into any mother-son action. That would be just another vessel carrying the true content, namely hurting Victoria or both. Replace the above with any other degrading stuff like forcing his mother to eat dog shit or a good old, legalporno-style gangbang and confront Edwin with either the footage or even the live action.
It's about getting into Edwins head (and heart), either for revenge and punishment or to test his loyalty towards his new mistress.

I believe the revenge and punishment path is, given Kathleens predisposition, nearly self-explanatory and leads to two possible outcomes: either it breaks Edwin (bad ending, TD1900 stated they try to include some) or it sets the stage for the final showdown, because this would provide him a really strong motivation to fight her. Naturally this would be rather end game content.
If Kathleen can confront Edwin with recent, painful evidence about his mother and he feels ... nothing or even gets excited about her degradation (and not the act she was forced to commit) Kat knows for sure that she has won over Edwins soul. He is from now on her loyal disciple and will follow her path to his true destiny. Probably also rather end game content.

Going after the MCs mother would be a desperate gamble. Kat wouldn't play that card unless she felt she had to.

There is also a third possibility which is worth exploring in another post: Kathleen stays hidden, but gets Victoria into doing porn again, this time revealing some aspects of her which were already hinted at in this thread, but are unknown to Edwin. This could lead him to reevaluate his relationship to his mother, his values and ideals. Since he doesn't know Kathleen is behind that smut this time, he can't focus solely on her and the stage stays open for all actors.
It's also not necessarily end-game content, it could happen rather soon.
I'd love to elaborate on this in future.

Let's adress this part:

To return to a point I made upthread, Kat going after the MC's mother would immediately make the entire story about that.

I have outlined a strategy of which i believe would avoid that Kathleen starts to target Victoria for her shenanigans: try to keep a professional and friendly distance from her, just don't raise her interest in Edwin too much. However, if you throw yourself into the spider's web you have to brace yourself to meet the spider's poisoned fangs. There are different paths you can take ingame and i believe Kathleens is one of them.

The relationships the MC has developed, the slow-burn corruption overarching everything, the competition itself, all that goes out the window. The MC isn't going to be interested in any of the problems that any of the girls have at that point.

Consider this: Mina has no affiliation with the club.
Let's say my favourite is Mina, because Rosie is a fat and used victim, Felicia is a gold-digging trophy wife-slut and Veronica a haughty bi-lesbian on steroids. Hana is a skanky, tatooed wanabee rebell with a whore mother and a pimp father, not really wifey material either. My playthrough therefore is to romance Mina, get through the four weeks of competition and leave the club after that for good.
Happy end of story.
May be a boring, but totally viable alternative playthrough. And has all the issues you mentioned above.

Not if he's going to remain a believable character anyway.

I'd like to dissent on this point also.
My current canon playthrough revolves about dismantling the reign of the old owners eventually. I am actively playing to get the above mentioned (potential) punishment and revenge scenario, which would provide myEdwin with a credible motivation to fight against Kathleen, because he has then a very personal reason to do so and not just because she is a generic bad person. I view the carnations, Hana (plus perhaps her father?) and probably Ian as potential allies to achieve this goal. My game and the competition so far consists of assembling the heroes party needed to face the endbosses, so to speak. All of them are needed, and to form a strong bond between us we need to care for each other. MyEdwin wouldn't throw those relations out of the window, when it's finally time to face his nemesis, on the contrary: he will need to rely on his friends and allies in those crucial situations. He simply can't win alone.

The whole Kathleen-Victoria scenario essentially boils down to this question:
Is Victorias porn-past just a

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or a

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?
As you may by now already have guessed, i believe the latter.
Victorias past, her model and the way she can steer the story into different directions are just too juicy not to utilize fully.

And as always i can be absolutely wrong with my reasoning.

 

[SanaeS]

My game and the competition so far consists of assembling the heroes party needed to face the endbosses, so to speak. All of them are needed, and to form a strong bond between us we need to care for each other. MyEdwin wouldn't throw those relations out of the window, when it's finally time to face his nemesis, on the contrary: he will need to rely on his friends and allies in those crucial situations. He simply can't win alone.

After reading this I now visualize the endgame in a Yakuza 7 style where we build our party (ex Mina Idol/healer, Vero brawler etc...) to beat the "carnations tower" club dungeon in which there are Abel and Sophia experiments as mobs, Warren as a midboss and Kathleen as the final boss.

 

[彡SILENT๛ONE]

Yes, normally and in general that's true.

However

now this does sadly happen. Put someone under extreme mental and psychological stress, make them fear for their lives or their loved ones, or let them experience some other kind of trauma (like accidents or disasters) and we have plenty of cases in which someone changed their personality completely. Recent examples include soldiers returning from the front, who are barely recognized by their partners. With these conditions met, changes are possible very fast.

Relatively fast changes - which are perhaps more likely to happen in the scope of PC - can be achieved by

• gaslighting: presenting a false narrative, thereby leading a person to doubt their perceptions and become misled, disoriented or distressed. Can also set the stage for the aforementioned causes.
• Drug abuse: with Abels serum as the prime example, but not exclusively since there are other drugs also available at the club.
• Exposure to unusual or disagreeable behaviour, tends to bend a persons own perception towards the behaviour. Experiments have shown, that a lot of people have a hard time to dissent with a common shared opinion inside a closed group.
  You must be registered to see the links
  and the
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  should suffice as example.
• 'Brainwashing' as practiced in cults and other groups with special interests which are closed off to the general public and therefore can keep their members isolated inside their space of influence. Several conditions are met by the carnation club, and we can single out the technique of '
  You must be registered to see the links
  ' practiced by Kathleen.
• Sexwork: the methods commonly used by pimps to control their victims "closely resemble the brainwashing techniques of terrorists and paranoid cults."
  You must be registered to see the links
  . One ingame example would be Lucy, who is loosing her self-image as a heterosexual, caring mother and married woman really fast at the moment. I could also post some real-life examples who lost their shit incredible fast throughout their 'career'.
• The Taste of Power: the opportunity to exert real power inside the club. I don't think i'll need to cite real-life examples, and we already see the corrupting influence ingame on Edwin. "
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  "
• any combination or combination of parts of the above, there is no need to concentrate on a single technique. It's also very likely that my list is not exhaustive. These were just the ones i came up with.

So as we can see there is a wide array of possibilities available to change Hanas views, perception, self-image and values, which are of course part of her personality. While her initial disposition towards the club may power up her resilience, she is not invulnerable to those factors, should they be implemented by the club and/or our choices.

I am confident in TD1900s capability to write a consistent and believeable downfall of Hana, if they decide to go down this road.

Wtf Man .. why do you have so many options on your mind to change personality ( gaslighting, drug abuse, sex worker, brain washing) such type of corruption..!! Are you researching such things or what (⁠+⁠_⁠+⁠) Nvm

 

[selberdreher]

Wtf Man .. why do you have so many options on your mind to change personality ( gaslighting, drug abuse, sex worker, brain washing) such type of corruption..!! Are you researching such things or what (⁠+⁠_⁠+⁠) Nvm

I guess it's a fair share of life experiences, the fun of engaging with fellow thread members in a discussion about my favourite AVN and yeah, doing at least superficial research to make sure i am not posting totally out-of-my-ass-only crap.
Cheers!

 

[SanaeS]

After reading this I now visualize the endgame in a Yakuza 7 style in which we build our party (ex Mina Idol/healer, Vero brawler etc...) to beat the "carnations tower" club dungeon in which there are Abel and Sophia experiments as mobs, Warren as a midboss and Kathleen as the final boss.

 

[camube]

View attachment 2150723

THIS IS EPIC