VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Turret]

You kinda hit on my main concern when writing the recent scenes. Whether or not it was unduly traumatic, but I was worried that it might be overplayed against Edwin's characterization before Abel's visit. I.e., it happens, he panics, calls Ian in the middle of the night, and sweeps his house for bugs the next day. The disconnect between Edwin before Abel's visit and after and whether it sufficiently bridged the two.

Hi TD!
I think you have written it quite right. It might be a bit overeager by Edwin, but we have to remember depending on how we played him and that in the beginning he trusted Chuck quite much, Abel and Sohpia´s visit IS a wake up call. For example, while my Edwin was cautious from the start he also tried to keep some modicum of good relations with his bosses. He knew that the there was something shady gong on, but he did not know how much. Meeting Otto and some of Kath´s "ideas" was his first warning signal, Abel and Sophia finally hammered it home fully.

Hey, speak for yourself. Your MC might click with Sophia, but I sincerely hope mine does not. Even if I liked her personality, trying to roofie my avatar is something of a black mark. The less I have to interact with that woman the better.

Hey, it is only a bit of Chaos! It is just that our MC defiitely has a connection with Sophia. We can see this this during their "nerdtalk" in the bar and not just there. Later in the blue room, Sophia as the inventor of this "special" perfume could without problem sat the handjob out, Edwin got from Kath. Instead she jumps into the "fray" and you two can undertake quite a makeout session. A cold and calculating woman as Sophia is simply could have stood aloof, she did not.

There is a reason why I argued in our discussions that the Top 3 LIs for a goodish Edwin are Hana, Felicia and Sophia. But I also see why some other players prefer to not becoming closer to Sophia.

 

[Ungawa]

I fancy the idea of giving Sophia and Abel a horse dosage of their drug. Let's see if they like it.

You already saw her take the drug

 

[DirtyMario]

It is just that our MC defiitely has a connection with Sophia. We can see this this during their "nerdtalk" in the bar and not just there. Later in the blue room, Sophia as the inventor of this "special" perfume could without problem sat the handjob out, Edwin got from Kath. Instead she jumps into the "fray" and you two can undertake quite a makeout session. A cold and calculating woman as Sophia is simply could have stood aloof, she did not.

While I do agree that she might have a bit of the hots for him, it's very obvious that she talks down to him in every conversation they have. Like a boss to an employee. She finds him amusing but doesn't see him as an equal and I don't see this changing in the near future.
Her sexuality is on an entirely different boat. I don't understand her motivations yet or if she even has a choice in the matter.

There is a reason why I argued in our discussions that the Top 3 LIs for a goodish Edwin are Hana, Felicia and Sophia. But I also see why some other players prefer to not becoming closer to Sophia.

Really? Hana is obvious but Sophia? Before the other carnations? Doesn't make much sense to me to be honest.

 

[Ragnar]

Imo Edwin overreacted after Von Doren visit, not about the intrusion but about the Club. I mean you're working for the Eyes Wide Shut people, you should know how dangerous they can be if you do some stupid shit. It's worse because the game presents Edwin like a cold and calculating dude, he can be borderline psycho at times. Now he suspects the Club eliminated Darius and his brightest idea is playing detectives with Ian, How dumb can you be? Don't go sticking your nose into powerful people business, that should be a no brainer for someone like him.

 

[Turret]

hile I do agree that she might have a bit of the hots for him, it's very obvious that she talks down to him in every conversation they have. Like a boss to an employee. She finds him amusing but doesn't see him as an equal and I don't see this changing in the near future.

I agree that she holds the upper hand in their conversations so far, which considering Sophia´s personality is not surprising. She even unnerves Kath. Sophia is also clearly testing Edwin and depending on your choices you get two nerds getting to know each other a bit better. She does not, as you said, see him as an equal currently but you can mellow her a bit to the point they banter during the "home invasion".
I wrote it in earlier posts that I am not blind to the situation with Sophia/Edwin and him worming his way into her heart would be a great storyline for PC, because it would have to be done very differently from pursuing the other girls.

Her sexuality is on an entirely different boat. I don't understand her motivations yet or if she even has a choice in the matter.

Outside of ordered by Abel to do something (which I speculate is far more seldom than many players think), Sophia most certainly has her choices of what to do in the bedroom. It is quite clear that her actions in the blue room certainly were NOT ordered by Abel and considering the detached way she talks about sex, Sophia could have simply done nothing at all. But she chose to get involved with Edwin then. There is a connection between these two hardcore nerds.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

Abel/Sophia are giving off stag/vixen vibes. Duno where Edwin romantically fits into that dynamic

 

[TD1900]

Imo Edwin overreacted after Von Doren visit, not about the intrusion but about the Club. I mean you're working for the Eyes Wide Shut people, you should know how dangerous they can be if you do some stupid shit. It's worse because the game presents Edwin like a cold and calculating dude, he can be borderline psycho at times. Now he suspects the Club eliminated Darius and his brightest idea is playing detectives with Ian, How dumb can you be? Don't go sticking your nose into powerful people business, that should be a no brainer for someone like him.

I actually originally wrote the looking into Darius thing to be optional, but decided against it for character and structural reasons.

The way I look at it is this:

Over analyzing things is a doubled edged sword, and being "cold and calculating" isn't part and parcel with being wise. At the end of the day, he's a 22 year old with a fairly sheltered upbringing and understanding that people are scumbags intellectually and feeling that weight of what that means are two seperate things.

That withstanding, it's not like Edwin is going nuclear. He's feeling out the situation in an unobtrusive way, and banking on putting a nagging feeling to rest. And if that nagging feeling is perpetuated instead, there is value in that too.

But then again, some of the people he's cavorting with are possible war criminals and arms dealers, so how dumb can you be? Don't go sticking your nose 20 feet from anybody's shit, idiot.

 

[ename144]

Hey, it is only a bit of Chaos! It is just that our MC defiitely has a connection with Sophia. We can see this this during their "nerdtalk" in the bar and not just there. Later in the blue room, Sophia as the inventor of this "special" perfume could without problem sat the handjob out, Edwin got from Kath. Instead she jumps into the "fray" and you two can undertake quite a makeout session. A cold and calculating woman as Sophia is simply could have stood aloof, she did not.

Again, you and I remember Budapest rather differently. My MC was ordered to sit next to Sophia and her damned 'chaos,' which he did until he couldn't stand it anymore and excused himself. At that point Sophia and Kathleen pondered why the roofie didn't have the desired effect on him. Such charming ladies!

Personally, consider them equally unpleasant, but Kathleen is the boss so we need to show her at least a token level of civility. I have no such reason to tolerate Sophia's peccadillos.

There is a reason why I argued in our discussions that the Top 3 LIs for a goodish Edwin are Hana, Felicia and Sophia. But I also see why some other players prefer to not becoming closer to Sophia.

I'm sure there is a reason, but it's beyond my ken to find it. The way I see it, a halfway decent MC should want nothing to do with Dr. Lundgren. Even if we later learn that her research truly is for the greater good (and I'm not holding my breath), it's hard to ignore how poorly she treats her test subjects, the MC included.

 

[Ragnar]

I actually originally wrote the looking into Darius thing to be optional, but decided against it for character and structural reasons.

The way I look at it is this:

Over analyzing things is a doubled edged sword, and being "cold and calculating" isn't part and parcel with being wise. At the end of the day, he's a 22 year old with a fairly sheltered upbringing and understanding that people are scumbags intellectually and feeling that weight of what that means are two seperate things.

That withstanding, it's not like Edwin is going nuclear. He's feeling out the situation in an unobtrusive way, and banking on putting a nagging feeling to rest. And if that nagging feeling is perpetuated instead, there is value in that too.

But then again, some of the people he's cavorting with are possible war criminals and arms dealers, so how dumb can you be? Don't go sticking your nose 20 feet from anybody's shit, idiot.

Yeah, the age factor saves the entire situation somehow. Like when dealing with the loan shark facing real danger and how he realizes he's way over his head. There is being smart and there is being street wise. At the end of the day Ian and Edwin are like kids in a candy shop. I suppose I lost myself into Edwin internal monologues and forgot about the real world just like him. So congratulations to the writer

 

[Turret]

Again, you and I remember Budapest rather differently. My MC was ordered to sit next to Sophia and her damned 'chaos,' which he did until he couldn't stand it anymore and excused himself. At that point Sophia and Kathleen pondered why the roofie didn't have the desired effect on him. Such charming ladies!

And here come the different playstyles in with a passion. In my "Budapest" my MC was also ordered to sit with them, due to the fact that Kath and Sophia are unnerving the other, they are too different. Kath is in PC for sating her sadism, for Dr. Lundgren sadism is not even on the radar.
Later on Kath started to give my MC a handjob, when Sophia, who could easily sat out the whole episode, got involved. And it turned into an intense makeout session with the doctor.
My MC is not an idiot and knows that Kath sees him as a tool to be formed and Sophia as an interesting test object, so part of starting this makeout was gving a tiny bit of payback to the aloof doctor. But in the end it turned out that my MC and Sophia connected and Dr. Lundgren had no obvious reason to get involved in the first place.
She might not see the MC as an equal currently but the nerd bar talk, the blue room and part of the home visit show that the MC and Sophia have a connection. How this develops further we will see.

As mentioned before, it would be an interesting change of style if we could pursue Sophia Lundgren and break through the ice around her heart. Romancing her a very different thing and way to go compared to e.g. Hana, Felicia or Mina.

 

[Ottoeight]

And here come the different playstyles in with a passion. In my "Budapest" my MC was also ordered to sit with them, due to the fact that Kath and Sophia are unnerving the other, they are too different. Kath is in PC for sating her sadism, for Dr. Lundgren sadism is not even on the radar.
Later on Kath started to give my MC a handjob, when Sophia, who could easily sat out the whole episode, got involved. And it turned into an intense makeout session with the doctor.
My MC is not an idiot and knows that Kath sees him as a tool to be formed and Sophia as an interesting test object, so part of starting this makeout was gving a tiny bit of payback to the aloof doctor. But in the end it turned out that my MC and Sophia connected and Dr. Lundgren had no obvious reason to get involved in the first place.
She might not see the MC as an equal currently but the nerd bar talk, the blue room and part of the home visit show that the MC and Sophia have a connection. How this develops further we will see.

As mentioned before, it would be an interesting change of style if we could pursue Sophia Lundgren and break through the ice around her heart. Romancing her a very different thing and way to go compared to e.g. Hana, Felicia or Mina.

I know you're fighting your own battle, but I think you should remember that only Mina, Hana, the Carnations and the Old Bitch score variable points. Sophia doesn't. Uncle Chuck and August have points, Sophia hasn't: she's like any girl club.

Moreover, players should notice that every LI/main female character scores her own special points that affect her own route and the story as a whole in its own way: Mina has bi-curious points and Killian romance points; Hana has got anger points; Rosalind has libido points; Veronica has horniness points; Felicia has self-confidence points; the Old Bitch has trust points.
Sophia? Sophia's got nothing.

What I want to tell you is that you can fight your own battle - no one is stopping you - but you should be aware that you're fighting against the famous windmills and you're on your own.

 

[Turret]

I know you're fighting your own battle, but I think you should remember that only Mina, Hana, the Carnations and the Old Bitch score variable points. Sophia doesn't. Uncle Chuck and August have points, Sophia hasn't: she's like any girl club.

Moreover, players should notice that every LI/main female character scores her own special points that affect her own route and the story as a whole in its own way: Mina has bi-curious points and Killian romance points; Hana has got anger points; Rosalind has libido points; Veronica has horniness points; Felicia has self-confidence points; the Old Bitch has trust points.
Sophia? Sophia's got nothing.

What I want to tell you is that you can fight your own battle - no one is stopping you - but you should be aware that you're fighting against the famous windmills and you're on your own.

Ha, who knows, in the next update Sophia could have her own points to be gained. Unlike some other characters we see, Sophia is at least on the main character list. It is just the thing to make TD1900 aware that a Sophia Lundgren romance path would be a nice brushed against the flow path!
I know that most probably we will not see a Sophia LI path, but it would be great if it would come into PC.

 

[Takkatakka]

Ha, who knows, in the next update Sophia could have her own points to be gained. Unlike some other characters we see, Sophia is at least on the main character list. It is just the thing to make TD1900 aware that a Sophia Lundgren romance path would be a nice brushed against the flow path!
I know that most probably we will not see a Sophia LI path, but it would be great if it would come into PC.

I guess it is just the nature of guys everywhere, that pretty much every decent looking female character should be available as an "LI" for the MC, regardless of how many and how well written and designed actual LIs there already are in the game.

 

[ename144]

As mentioned before, it would be an interesting change of style if we could pursue Sophia Lundgren and break through the ice around her heart. Romancing her a very different thing and way to go compared to e.g. Hana, Felicia or Mina.

I wish you good luck in your quest, but I fear it may be an impossible one. I don't think that's ice around Sophia's heart, I think that is her heart. She's not a delicate soul that walled herself off from the world because she cares too much, she's an extremely intellectual woman with a staggering degree of self-awareness. She has a very rational, highly abstracted approach to pretty much everything and the MC is no exception.

That's not to say Sophia couldn't fall in love (though I'd bet heavily against it happening), but even if she does it won't lead to an overwhelming passion for the MC. It will be a pleasant familiarity she and the MC share as they go about doing whatever it was they were going to anyway. Love would be just another intellectual exercise for her, even if her feelings are sincere.

That's my take, for all that it's worth.

 

[Ungawa]

... We're on Week 3...

The game is supposed to wrap up by the end on Week 4... This is a very interesting month. To say you want to add Sophia to it seems to be incredibly ambitious when it took two years to get one project with Felicia going.

Sure it can happen, but...

 

[Coomer44]

anyone got a save with full gallery?

 

[Turret]

I guess it is just the nature of guys everywhere, that pretty much every decent looking female character should be available as an "LI" for the MC, regardless of how many and how well written and designed actual LIs there already are in the game.

It certainly helps that Sophia Lungren looks really good, but in this case it is more the special challenge a personality like her brings to the table. Romanicing her would be, as said before, different from the standard.

wish you good luck in your quest, but I fear it may be an impossible one. I don't think that's ice around Sophia's heart, I think that is her heart. She's not a delicate soul that walled herself off from the world because she cares too much, she's an extremely intellectual woman with a staggering degree of self-awareness. She has a very rational, highly abstracted approach to pretty much everything and the MC is no exception.
That's not to say Sophia couldn't fall in love (though I'd bet heavily against it happening), but even if she does it won't lead to an overwhelming passion for the MC. It will be a pleasant familiarity she and the MC share as they go about doing whatever it was they were going to anyway. Love would be just another intellectual exercise for her, even if her feelings are sincere.

That's my take, for all that it's worth.

A nice and observant point of view here, thanks! I actually agree with you on some parts, I am not blind to the situation and the characters. I speculate that a relationship of Sophia and the MC would be a quite a bit more passionate than you estimate, since we see what can happen in the blue room event and a person willing to do a gangbang to test an invention on herself surely has enough passion and kinkiness for her significant other. Still, I agree with you that a lot of their hypothetical relationship would be the "pleasant familiarity" you propose, if with some unusual rituals, hobbies and bedroom "stuff" due to the characters involved.
As mentioned several times before, romancing Sophia Lundgren would be a refreshing difference from the more "normal" dating sim paths. Still we can be glad with the LIs we already got, they all have their perks/flaws and are nicely done characters, esp. in an erotic game.

 

[GoWFO]

But then again, some of the people he's cavorting with are possible war criminals and arms dealers, so how dumb can you be? Don't go sticking your nose 20 feet from anybody's shit, idiot.

I have a feeling the my choices in playing Edwin, has him already being fitted with cement shoes...

 

[Ottoeight]

So, is anybody else obsessed with more non-LI girls?

Doesn't anyone think that Edwin should start a love story with a club girl? become a love rival with our Vincenzo tenor?

Anyone?

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

I guess it is just the nature of guys everywhere, that pretty much every decent looking female character should be available as an "LI" for the MC, regardless of how many and how well written and designed actual LIs there already are in the game.

Alice romance path when? One is a sadist with a formerly slutty mother he can't fuck, the other is a masochist with an educated but distant son and a preference for young men.

Soulmates