VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5] [Mutt & Jeff]

[sunaboz]

(...)
But that's a result of Victoria doing (probably way) more than 4 porn flicks. And even then, Edwin notes that the money was tight. (...)

I'm pretty sure that when she said "four" it really was "four". Why would she lie to an employer and porn-veteran who might have done some preliminary background check (which his "it's not your first time" suggests) before he allowed for them to meet? He has assistant, an office and as Victoria said is a big step-up compared to her previous "colleagues" so wasting his time and lying to him would be counter-productive.

As for porn being not lucrative, that's actually an argument against Victoria as a mother. Instead of getting another job or some less dirty side-gig (or just lowering her living standards) she decided to take a path of least resistance.

And are we seriously going to look down our noses on her and turn it into Victoria not being a good mother because she did questionable thing to shield Edwin from these alternatives? As opposed to making his life miserable so she could avoid making more porn movies?

I didn't say that Victoria isn't a good mother, I heavily implied she's not a role model like some of you are implying. And yeah, lowering living standards seems like not such a bad deal considering the alternative of a risk that EVERYONE at school would know that Edwin's mother did porn. With each movie she did that risk increased significantly and once she shot with Donovan it was practically assured that it will get out sooner or later (we're talking about a woman who went to a porn studio in a town she was living in).

Anyway, it's a porn game and porn logic is applied so I shouldn't nitpick too much but it's fun to discuss so... :].

Edit:
Forgot to add that her number could be easily determined by thanks to porn videos (on VHS or whatever).

 

[Bacchus1998]

Rosalind also has, in her physical and personality traits, an almost incestuous union of the paradoxical concepts of the madonna and prostitute complex. Fucking Rosalind is almost like fucking Virgin Mary in a way. It's fucking exciting to have a game that deals with the dichotomy of Apollo and Dionysus in such an explicit and amoral way.

But actually I just wanted to know how the fuck I can get Rosalind to stay in the apartment

 

[ffive]

I'm pretty sure that when she said "four" it really was "four". Why would she lie to an employer and porn-veteran who might have done some preliminary background check (which his "it's not your first time" suggests) before he allowed for them to meet?

I think we have a misunderstanding here. My point was, that you are talking how Victoria should've stopped making porn flicks after she made these 4, because you believe she made enough money with those 4, and cite Edwin's words as the proof of it.

But the situation Edwin talks about is one that is a result of Victoria not stopping at those 4. She made additional ones afterwards with Donovan, and Edwin's financial situation is the result of this decision (and the extra money she made)

In other words, if Victoria stopped at those 4 flicks like you say she should've then Edwin's and hers financial situation would be way worse than that. If you believe that would make her "a better mother" then, well, fine, that's something we'd just have to disagree on.

As for porn being not lucrative, that's actually an argument against Victoria as a mother. Instead of getting another job or some less dirty side-gig (or just lowering her living standards) she decided to take a path of least resistance.

You really think whoring yourself out is "the path of least resistance"? I'm sorry but this is now complete bullshit.

People do menial regular jobs not because it's harder to put up with, than getting fucked by strangers for money. Quite the opposite.

And yeah, lowering living standards seems like not such a bad deal considering the alternative of a risk that EVERYONE at school would know that Edwin's mother did porn.

People possibly finding out was just a potential risk. Spending years living in shitty conditions would be guaranteed alternative that would affect Edwin's life for sure. Victoria took a gamble instead of just rolling over and making her son's life worse. I really don't think she deserves claims that makes her bad role model or whatever.

 

[ffive]

But actually I just wanted to know how the fuck I can get Rosalind to stay in the apartment

You can't. You can make her an offer but she goes back to her place for the time being. But i'd guess if you made her the offer then she might discover that she's now feeling quite lonely in her empty apartment, and takes Edwin up on that offer eventually.

 

[XLSergioXL]

What should I delete from build 4.4, to stop getting "You have reached the end of this build" in 4.5?

 

[Bacchus1998]

You can't. You can make her an offer but she goes back to her place for the time being. But i'd guess if you made her the offer then she might discover that she's now feeling quite lonely in her empty apartment, and takes Edwin up on that offer eventually.

Thank you, generous gentleman

 

[MagicMan753]

(also wow, the degradation sex scene is like 10 times longer than the alternative. We can see where the dev priorities lie

Probably exaggerating, I wouldn't say its ten times longer, but it is still longer, slightly disappointing. That coupled with a small scene on the couch in previous update, that you need to skip Veronica outing for and Ian threesome which is something I don't enjoy, just was looking forward to this update, for something to sink my teeth into.

But I believe we will get a longer romance scene in week 4, that will make up for it hopefully., just have to be patient and trust in the devs, which I do.

 

[sunaboz]

(...)
My point was, that you are talking how Victoria should've stopped making porn flicks after she made these 4, because you believe she made enough money with those 4, and cite Edwin's words as the proof of it. (...)

No, that wasn't my point. My point was that Victoria did porn for extra money, it wasn't necessary for her to do it but she did it anyway. Selling her huge house alone and moving to a smaller apartment would allow her to live off the profit for quite some time (for one, as Victoria said this house is too big even for the two of them, for two, costs of living would go down).

You're also forgetting the fact that when Edwin said all these things he watched every movie his mother made (that he got his hands on). It's not like he suddenly bought the one that Donovonan made. So my point is when Edwin said that he got all the facts.

 

[myrojoe]

Anyone have just the update from ch4up4 to up5?

 

[ffive]

No, that wasn't my point. My point was that Victoria did porn for extra money, it wasn't necessary for her to do it but she did it anyway.

But all money is "just extra money" if you want to view it like that. Going with this logic Victoria never had to make any porn at all, and should've just sold the house etc. So then she and Edwin would get to live 10+ years in miserable conditions and Edwin would have to put up with being mocked for being poor instead of theoretically being mocked about his mother's actions.

You're also forgetting the fact that when Edwin said all these things he watched every movie his mother made (that he got his hands on). It's not like he suddenly bought the one that Donovonan made. So my point is when Edwin said that he got all the facts.

Uhh i'm not forgetting it? It is, in fact, part of my point -- Edwin's comments about their situation, financial and otherwise, are made long after Victoria has done all her porn movies. How they were able to live is the result of that, and if Victoria had made different call back then, Edwin wouldn't be able to talk that he's got relatively okay and undisturbed life, because his life would've been quite different and likely way worse.

 

[MagicMan753]

I think the club scene is a little weird imo, it feels like locking in a route without locking in a route. It has a couple setups for throuple paths, which is cool, but choosing between every Li at the same time felt weird, cause you get a little bonus scene with them, but it doesn't lock in a route really but feels like it essentially does, cause their is no reason to not hang out with your chosen Li in that save file.

I probably would of liked a little more chances to hangout or kiss the girls, maybe not all, but maybe get time with multiple, instead of essentially choose just one. Obviously their is one outlier, throuple, where you can get mutliple, just my thoughts.

Just feels like this was a lockin your route choice when it probably wasn't and won't be, felt weird. Didn't hate it, but didn't love it either.

 

[TD1900]

(also wow, the degradation sex scene is like 10 times longer than the alternative. We can see where the dev priorities lie

I don't know about line count, but I was actually afraid that the full deal option felt the more perfunctory of the 2. Maybe because of the time lapse, but mainly because I thought the imagery / set up was stronger. Rosalind on top in the moonlight, fat titties bouncing, letting her hair down is pretty strong. Personal favorite animation from the update.

 

[ffive]

I don't know about line count, but I was actually afraid that the full deal option felt the more perfunctory of the 2. Maybe because of the time lapse, but mainly because I thought the imagery / set up was stronger. Rosalind on top in the moonlight, fat titties bouncing, letting her hair down is pretty strong. Personal favorite animation from the update.

No worry, i was mostly being cheeky after scrolling through like 5 pages of the derogatory variant in the script. I think the romantic option may look like it's shorter in the editor because part of it is the intimacy buildup, but i agree it was really lovely all-around.

(though personally i liked the part after Rose cums the most; this sort of close contact/kissing all way to the finish ticks all the boxes for me. 10/10, and the only way it could be more is if it was Mina instead )

 

[link18]

Spoiler: My PC tier list

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[pigg]

 

[ffive]

Spoiler: My PC tier list

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Oh come on, everyone recognizes Ian is better looking than Edwin. He should be objectively C. Even has a haircut to match others in that tier.

 

[ffive]

Looking more in the script, for anyone wondering why they don't get option to hook up with the bartender at the club, this option is blocked with girlfriend Hana and also, maybe a bit counter-intuitively, if you have Ian on introspective path and chose to talk to him when he's having the lonely moment.

 

[Ottoeight]

But all money is "just extra money" if you want to view it like that. Going with this logic Victoria never had to make any porn at all, and should've just sold the house etc. So then she and Edwin would get to live 10+ years in miserable conditions and Edwin would have to put up with being mocked for being poor instead of theoretically being mocked about his mother's actions.


Uhh i'm not forgetting it? It is, in fact, part of my point -- Edwin's comments about their situation, financial and otherwise, are made long after Victoria has done all her porn movies. How they were able to live is the result of that, and if Victoria had made different call back then, Edwin wouldn't be able to talk that he's got relatively okay and undisturbed life, because his life would've been quite different and likely way worse.

Mocked because he's poor? seriously, man.

Anyway, they wouldn't have been poor AT ALL.

She didn't do it for the money. She did it because she totally flipped out after her husband's death (remember: he died in a car accident when he was young - IF I remember well) and after her sons started to act like a problem child with very serious issues.

We should always remember that our Edwin hero is a looney.

 

[ffive]

She didn't do it for the money. She did it because she totally flipped out after her husband's death (remember: he died in a car accident when he was young - IF I remember well) and after her sons started to act like a problem child with very serious issues.

Uhm wait, how do you go from "my son is acting out" to "so i should make some porn flicks"? Because i see zero logic in there. Unless what you're trying to say is that Victoria is batshit crazy and unable to make rational decisions, in which case she's hiding it pretty well because i never got that impression from her.

 

[Ottoeight]

Uhm wait, how do you go from "my son is acting out" to "so i should make some porn flicks"? Because i see zero logic in there. Unless what you're trying to say is that Victoria is batshit crazy and unable to make rational decisions, in which case she's hiding it pretty well because i never got that impression from her.

I think you might want to go back to the prologue and early days when Kathleen talks about Victoria's porn career with Edwin - what she thinks about it and what she thinks about Edwin's "rationalisation" of his mother's doing.

I stand by my opinion. She flipped out.


Anyway, we're arguing about some characters in a VN, not real people. Therefore, I guess we're not arguing about Victoria's purposes - we're arguing about which plausible purposes the Authors decided she has in order that her actions and motives fit into the story.