VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5] [Mutt & Jeff]

[satirious]

Eh, don't make the same mistake Kathleen is making. The fact that the MC has a serious sadistic streak doesn't mean that his other traits are fake. The MC is capable of both cruelty and altruism. The whole point of the game is that his experiences have carefully balanced him on a knife's edge. It's only when he consciously chooses a side to favor that the MC could thereafter be labeled as a "good" or "bad" person.

Of course, that choice is going to have to come late in the game for obvious reasons.

That is what I find so glaring in this situation...

Chuck and Kathleen for sure know about the MC's past. It's unclear what August knows.

Rage and violence are established character traits for the MC. Being a fire bug is a player choice though.

So why are two, supposedly really smart, people trying their damnedest to break the outer shell to the MC's inner monster while also doing things that can logically turn him into a driven and devoted enemy? The MC isn't a dumb street rat or stupid. He is prone to extreme retribution when someone he cares about is in harms way. At least he was. That seems to have changed in a few short years.

 

[satirious]

Sure, but what exactly such options *are* there for the MC? The local police force is much more likely to work against him than help him. And the last guy who allegedly tried to stand up to Kat was made disappear without a trace. The MC isn't some sort of genius millionaire Batman to play a vigilante, he's just a student with no resources to speak of.

He has a building full of the people responsible for many things. He knows when and where with 100% certainty. The rest is just chemistry. Something a future doctor would know plenty about. And that is the easy, not even trying to be smart about it answer.

 

[ffive]

He has a building full of the people responsible for many things. He knows when and where with 100% certainty. The rest is just chemistry. Something a future doctor would know plenty about. And that is the easy, not even trying to be smart about it answer.

The extent of MC's pyromania was to set fire to neighbor's shed when he was 12 or so. I think you're vastly overestimating his penchant and capability for actual violence.

Not to mention he doesn't strike me as someone who'd risk lives of other, innocent people. Or that the building is under full surveillance 24/7 and you can hardly play an amateur firestarter in such environment.

And even if he did pull it off, then how do you imagine he's supposed to deal with the aftermath, when a bunch of pissed off criminals descend on both him and his mother? Because you don't expect all of them to just conveniently die?

 

[ModiThorrson]

I'm really interested to find out more about Sophia, I get the feeling by how Abel uses her and her weird attitudes that she may have been broken and coniditioned. Would make for a really interesting story about ethics and morals.

 

[satirious]

The extent of MC's pyromania was to set fire to neighbor's shed when he was 12 or so. I think you're vastly overestimating his penchant and capability for actual violence.

Not to mention he doesn't strike me as someone who'd risk lives of other, innocent people. Or that the building is under full surveillance 24/7 and you can hardly play an amateur firestarter in such environment.

You're missing the point entirely.

The fact that he could blow that building in place because he has
1. The technical know how
2. Easy access to the necessary information and materials necessary
3. A history of harsh violence
4. An assumed (by Chuck and Kathleen at least) dark sadistic personality
5. Youthful lack of future forward thinking

All of that makes him someone you don't just fuck with for shits and giggles if you are as smart as Chuck and Kathleen are supposed to be. The fact that he has done zero zilch nada thus far means he isn't doing shit no matter what Victoria reveals or keeps to herself. That is the point I'm making. He's sold his soul for tuition. Victoria's situation is a nice cliffhanger and little more.

 

[ffive]

You're missing the point entirely.

The fact that he could blow that building in place because he has
1. The technical know how

Uhm, no? "How to make explosives and blow up buildings" isn't part of a doctor's education. There's no indication that MC has ever researched such topics.

2. Easy access to the necessary information and materials necessary

Again, no? Where is that easy access supposed to come from?

3. A history of harsh violence

He's got one such incident on record. As a mid-school kid.

4. An assumed (by Chuck and Kathleen at least) dark sadistic personality

Dark sadistic personality doesn't exactly mean a person will go around blowing up buildings without a second thought. As evidenced by both Chuck and Kathleen who also fit this description and yet don't partake in such activities.

5. Youthful lack of future forward thinking

His entire reason to agree to Chuck's proposal was for his future career. He repeatedly considers consequences of his actions on his future and weights pros and cons.

All of that makes him someone you don't just fuck with for shits and giggles if you are as smart as Chuck and Kathleen are supposed to be.

I get the impression you envision the MC as some sort of comic book Punisher in the making, when in reality he's a nerdy and pretty sheltered kid.

 

[Maviarab]

He has a building full of the people responsible for many things. He knows when and where with 100% certainty. The rest is just chemistry. Something a future doctor would know plenty about. And that is the easy, not even trying to be smart about it answer.

 

[satirious]

Uhm, no? "How to make explosives and blow up buildings" isn't part of a doctor's education. There's no indication that MC has ever researched such topics.


Again, no? Where is that easy access supposed to come from?


He's got one such incident on record. As a mid-school kid.


Dark sadistic personality doesn't exactly mean a person will go around blowing up buildings without a second thought. As evidenced by both Chuck and Kathleen who also fit this description and yet don't partake in such activities.


His entire reason to agree to Chuck's proposal was for his future career. He repeatedly considers consequences of his actions on his future and weights pros and cons.


I get the impression you envision the MC as some sort of comic book Punisher in the making, when in reality he's a nerdy and pretty sheltered kid.

It's simple chemistry and yes, he took more than basic chemistry in university. He's preparing to take his MCAT's not his ACT/SAT

Chuck Kathleen and August very much rely on violence as part of their business model. That is why they have Warren and Jacob on staff and connections to other criminal collectives such as the Russian.

And no, I don't think the MC is any comic book anything. I think he's decided his tuition is more important than anything else and so Chuck, Kathleen and August can do as they please to anyone they please. The MC will stand by and shrug it off.

 

[ramvivat]

I remembered the incident when Katlin called MC's mother. That is, this is a hint that Kat can easily get to Victoria if MC starts doing crazy things. In other words, MC is tied hand and foot. I hope after this "festival of unbridled fun" with the participation of the Carnations, he will be free in his actions. However, I am not so sure about Rosalind - she can become a "house girl" for some time.

 

[Ungawa]

Hello everyone, I'm new to the game. It's pretty go so far.

Is there regular Dalia content ? I got to the sauna scene with her and I'm in love. I know she's a side girl but she's the hottest one in the club

Is the Dalia sauna scene the last one with her so far ?

This kind of goes for all the club girls but...

They're all reliant on scenes only after the Carnations. If you like one or another, that's not really their role. They're in the game to show they've got duties and responsibilites in a cathouse.

Dalia is the leader of the band and the one that keeps them on the up and up, Harper is her Lieutenant that sometimes gets distracted in her professionalism all the way down to Nicolette who's trying to get out as fast as possible while doing the deed.

They won't have regular content. They play their role and we shift to another as the story makes them necessary.

 

[satirious]

I remembered the incident when Katlin called MC's mother. That is, this is a hint that Kat can easily get to Victoria if MC starts doing crazy things. In other words, MC is tied hand and foot. I hope after this "festival of unbridled fun" with the participation of the Carnations, he will be free in his actions. However, I am not so sure about Rosalind - she can become a "house girl" for some time.

His tuition, and thus his future career as a doctor, are forever linked to those entities that he's working for and with. Forever in the pocket of them and those that will take over for them in the years to come. That's the forward thinking he didn't do when he first signed on. It's the future he didn't even consider when Kathleen made it clear from the jump that all he knows and loves is fair game. Good thing for them he isn't capable of caring enough about anyone else to give a shit.

 

[link18]

Bro turned Edwin into a terrorist. any changes to the establishment will come with cunningness and intelligence, not with IEDs and AK47s
and remember the club's next generation is his childhood friend (Ian) and potential girlfriend (Hana)

 

[michelazzo]

Hi all, by any chance anyone able to create the Mac version?

 

[Suntar]

His tuition, and thus his future career as a doctor, are forever linked to those entities that he's working for and with. Forever in the pocket of them and those that will take over for them in the years to come. That's the forward thinking he didn't do when he first signed on. It's the future he didn't even consider when Kathleen made it clear from the jump that all he knows and loves is fair game. Good thing for them he isn't capable of caring enough about anyone else to give a shit.

By that logic Edwin didn't have a choice but to work for them the moment he set foot in the building...

 

[satirious]

By that logic Edwin didn't have a choice but to work for them the moment he set foot in the building...

Not the second he walked in. The moment he accepted Chucks offer for sure though. And his best bro Ian knows full well what swamp he was leading the MC into.

 

[ffive]

Good thing for them he isn't capable of caring enough about anyone else to give a shit.

I'd say he does care, just isn't enough of a violent psychopath to blow up buildings full of innocent people over it as if it was no biggie. Both Chuck and Kat are indeed smart enough to realize it, and that they don't need to be afraid of the kid.

 

[SixtyNineGaming]

Playing it all the way from the beginning took me a week but I'm very happy I did that. This is one of the best written VNs on this site. The character writing and personality consistency is incredible. This game also has one of the most well written MCs - he is open, witty and has a point of view, unlike the blank doormats in most VNs.
I also love how the dev doesnt drag plot points unnecessarily - the story moves quickly and plot threads aren't left dangling forever.

 

[satirious]

I'd say he does care, just isn't enough of a violent psychopath to blow up buildings full of innocent people over it as if it was no biggie. Both Chuck and Kat are indeed smart enough to realize it, and that they don't need to be afraid of the kid.

Where as I think it takes a heartless psychopath to stand by and do nothing at all while those same people target your mother. I guess we shall agree to disagree on that one.

Doesn't change the fact that the rage and violence mentioned early on are worthless character traits when the MC is going to chug another beer while Rosalind sucks him off and his mother get's abused by the likes of Grace and Chuck and Kathleen.

 

[MoBy28]

You're missing the point entirely.

The fact that he could blow that building in place because he has
1. The technical know how
2. Easy access to the necessary information and materials necessary
3. A history of harsh violence
4. An assumed (by Chuck and Kathleen at least) dark sadistic personality
5. Youthful lack of future forward thinking

All of that makes him someone you don't just fuck with for shits and giggles if you are as smart as Chuck and Kathleen are supposed to be. The fact that he has done zero zilch nada thus far means he isn't doing shit no matter what Victoria reveals or keeps to herself. That is the point I'm making. He's sold his soul for tuition. Victoria's situation is a nice cliffhanger and little more.

Chuck isn't really messing with the MC as much as he seems to be trying to guide him and possibly make amends. He warns Kat about going too far with the Rose porno scene to the point of an implied threat to Kat about him being like family. As we don't quite know the history between Chuck and Victoria yet, we can't truly say what happened. Did Chuck sit in on one of Don's movie shoots and see Victoria? Was this before or after Ian and Edwin met? Maybe he saw her at a filming or in a movie and later met her as Ian's BF's mom/person Ian looked up to as a mother and helped her/convinced her to get away from doing porn. Until we know for sure what the past is between them we can only speculate.

TBF your overlooking the fact that this could be a catalyst for him helping/siding with Van Doren to take down the Club's leadership. We've already seen the in home meeting where VD warns him, maybe this could be the factor that pushes him to align with them to remove the current leadership. They have the resources and are already working on their plan. Remember it's not the club he would want revenge on it's the people responsible, taking Kat and Chuck(if he had a negative hand in Vic's past) out of the picture somehow (not killing but destroying their reputations/lives) would be a fitting revenge. You can add others along the way who are involved like Warren with Kat and maybe Grace with Chuck just to tie up other loose ends. This is all just speculation but if Edwin wants to get revenge on Kat and Chuck siding with VD would help him out immensely.

BTW the tuition deal was from Chuck not from the club. The deal is to work for the club and Chuck will pay his tuition. This has a multiple purposes: getting Ian back with a "good" influence, helping out the club(replacing the "missing" guy), letting the MC explore his wilder desires and getting "life experience". Not to mention banging all the hotties along the way. So knowing that in theory, if Kat pushed the MC too far and he left because of that, Chuck could still pay for his tuition if he chose to. Not saying he would just that he could.

 

[ffive]

Doesn't change the fact that the rage and violence mentioned early on are worthless character traits when the MC is going to chug another beer while Rosalind sucks him off and his mother get's abused by the likes of Grace and Chuck and Kathleen.

But MC is not aware of Grace's actions, Kat isn't exactly abusing his mother, and Chuck's actions are all speculations at this point. But it seems you have already decided that if MC learns about those things he won't do anything, and are effectively lambasting him for completely theoretical scenario you have set up in your head..?