VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Joratox]

So, please enlighten my ignorance, what is her brilliant plan involving to completely degrade herself and somehow stay afloat in her life?

Your ignorance is based on your own morals and wishes on how she should behave and/or not reading the story properly.

She clearly states that her goal is to win the competition and become a member of the club. As you can see, the members are exclusively powerful/rich men and she would not have any other method to join. As for why she want's to join ? As far as I can tell, getting friends in high places and use the blackmail material she acquired over the years, to get money and more control over her life. Being a member of such a club comes with a lot of benefits/protection. She can charm her way with the other members and have them protect her in case of retaliation from Elias or other people she plans to blackmail, or sell them said blackmail material. The possibilities are endless.

I mean, sure, it's a bad plan from the start, because it has a low chance of success. There are 2 conditions for this to work as I see it...her winning the competition and Elias not finding out too soon about it.

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As for what she does in other to get her wishes...pish posh. Sex, degrading herself, etc...she probably enjoys it either way. If she wins, nobody else will find out about it, because the members are sworn to secrecy, or else they are all exposed. If she loses...oh well....she's fucked beyond saving. So it's an all in bet, which she will probably lose (or the writer will find a way for her to win, if she gets a lot of help from the MC). *edit: Also the level of degrading is solely based on your choices > if the MC helps her a lot, she comes off less like a cheap whore but an expensive escort (even Kat gets envious and angry on her)

You seem to have more than a basic understanding of English, so the reason you are not getting this is...you formed an opinion of her early on then you refused to change it based on further information.

I'm not writing this to somehow change your mind ( I won't be able to), but to give context for other readers than come here and see your drivel all over the place and take it for facts.

 

[Beduin123]

That's the problems with marrying millionaires -- they already have better lawyers than their prize wives to be could dream of.

While I agree with that, it may be true.

She neither minds nor gets hung up on the "cheap spunk trash" if she can get there.

More often that not she behaves in the game like somebody who is hung up on the cheap spunk trash. Literally like a crazed sex animal, which breaks her character for me.

In the current version of the game, there are options in which the expensive whore Felicia brilliantly wins every exhibition against “mousey fatt-tited brunette, or stuck-up gym freak redhead” (c), club girls against her look incompetent and Kathleen looks like an envious fool. With a high probability in the future she will not be able to bow down from a shovel of disgusting trash, but at the moment you can only blame yourself for her “cheapness”.

It doesn't matter whether she wins or looses. She is ready to do all those things in public to win, it's a part of the world of the game, part of the lore. And even if she clearly wins the competition, she has to go through all kinds of humiliation.

I don't think you understand what she is trying to do and what it takes to make it to that last social tier she aspires to.

I do understand that. I just doubt that by degrading herself down to such low level she'll be able to recover back mentally or enjoy her newly found independence.
Also Felicia is arguably one of the most beautiful and smart girl in the game. But every now and then she is acting out of her sexual urges rather than a cold hearted calculation. In the beginning she was controlling the MC but half way through now he seems to be controlling her more than vice versa.
Her initial type reminded me Victoria from City of Broken Dreamers. But now any resemblance is gone, she seems to become much less using her skillful womanly charms and much more raw flesh power than in the beginning.

 

[Beduin123]

Your ignorance is based on your own morals and wishes on how she should behave and/or not reading the story properly.

It has nothing to do with the morals. It's just knowledge of how the world works. Believe me, through my life I've experienced a lot of people and situations.

She clearly states that her goal is to win the competition and become a member of the club.

So, you think rich and powerful people will be ready to accept someone who completely degraded themselves? Imagine somebody who you just circle-jerked on. Will you have any respect for them. I know they are all dirty bastards but it is an ability to be dominant, to exercise your power over the others that gives you respect in this case, not your ability to be submissive.

I'm not writing this to somehow change your mind ( I won't be able to), but to give context for other readers than come here and see your drivel all over the place and take it for facts.

No, you just want to impose your drivel on the others instead of trying to understand my arguments and if my drivel is all over the place, yours is even less solid

 

[ArsenHumby]

I see a big cleaning of the thread on the horizon...

 

[Beduin123]

I see a big cleaning of the thread on the horizon...

Why? It is a game related discussion about one of the ingame characters. The only problem that I see if some members start to throw abuses at me for having a bit different opinion on this character (to be true, some of them are already on the verge of that).

I clearly said in the beginning that I believe this is one of the best games on this site. But it doesn't mean I cannot question or discuss it.

 

[Idontplay]

Her initial type reminded me Victoria from City of Broken Dreamers.

Where?
The only similarity between Victoria and Felicia is that both are stunning hot chick. In fact Victoria is a woman who use her body to accomplish the tasks her employer give her, while Felicia had use her body to marry a filthy rich man and now (in the first updates of the game) she want enjoy everything her beauty and her husband's wealthy can buy. Since the start they were totally different characters, with different desires, different goals and different moral, different mindset…

 

[Joratox]

So, you think rich and powerful people will be ready to accept someone who completely degraded themselves? Imagine somebody who you just circle-jerked on. Will you have any respect for them.

Again you ignore the story and twist it to your imagination and purposes
If she gets the scene where they circle jerk on her...she is already well on her way on losing the competition. So she will not get to the point where she is a member and she can play on her strengths to get said respect. You played her as a loser so...imagine the surprise...she is a loser and gets fucked over.
As I said previously, all of her plan is built upon winning. If she loses she's fucked beyond saving.

Believe me, through my life I've experienced a lot of people and situations.

If you understood those people and situations as well as you understood this story...well, allow me not to believe you.

No, you just want to impose your drivel on the others instead of trying to understand my arguments

Your arguments are based on playing the character story wrong, then saying she is written poorly and you don't understand why she is behaving so erratically. My arguments are grounded in facts, and I've shown how both outcomes of her story develop. The readers will make up their own mind on who is spouting drivel.

I won't respond to any more of your posts, I've already made my case and it's pointless to debate with someone that will only bring a singular point of view to the discussion.

 

[Beduin123]

Where?
The only similarity between Victoria and Felicia is that both are stunning hot chick. In fact Victoria is a woman who use her body to accomplish the tasks her employer give her, while Felicia had use her body to marry a filthy rich man and now (in the first updates of the game) she want enjoy everything her beauty and her husband's wealthy can buy. Since the start they were totally different characters, with different desires, different goals and different moral, different mindset…

Let's say they both use their perfect bodies and their highly developed minds and social skills to achieve their goals. The details are not important in this case.

 

[Beduin123]

If she gets the scene where they circle jerk on her...she is already well on her way on losing the competition.

It is you who misses the parts of the story. The circle jerk scene is the way to get back to the competition even if the Carnation loses the first part. And the first part is set like a lottery in the way that anybody can lose it.

If you understood those people and situations as well as you understood this story...well, allow me not to believe you.

As I said before, first of my jobs for many years was journalism (TV, radio, papers). I think it gives some basic knowledge of people. There were other different jobs as well but with the same effects. But of course you know people better

I won't respond to any more of your posts, I've already made my case and it's pointless to debate with someone that will only bring a singular point of view to the discussion.

Of course, you are so deep (and full of yourself) that my shallow personality is not worthy of your attention (better for me)

 

[Idontplay]

With the exception of these details are large as much as the iceberg which sunked the Titanic.

 

[Beduin123]

With the exception of these details are large as much as the iceberg which sunked the Titanic.

I don't think so. They both also have very ambiguous morals. At least that's basically what I meant. If you put something else in it, these are your considerations, not mine.

 

[ffive]

More often that not she behaves in the game like somebody who is hung up on the cheap spunk trash. Literally like a crazed sex animal, which breaks her character for me.

By not being hung up i meant she doesn't worry that some prudish men may think she "looks like a crazed sex animal" and it doesn't prevent her from doing what she thinks will allow her to fulfill her goal.

There's nothing about Felicia's character that would be breaking by her enjoying sex in relative public of a secret sex club. She likes sex, she likes risk, she is exhibitionist and if anything she gets off on being seen. As Edwin can amply demonstrate during exhibition on Week 2.

 

[ArsenHumby]

Why? It is a game related discussion about one of the ingame characters. The only problem that I see if some members start to throw abuses at me for having a bit different opinion on this character (to be true, some of them are already on the verge of that).

I clearly said in the beginning that I believe this is one of the best games on this site. But it doesn't mean I cannot question or discuss it.

Yeah, still lots of threads gets a cleanup or get closed when there is back and forth that looks more like stubborn people with waaaay to much free time. So let's chill, seems like the people in this current argument won't back down from their point of view so its useless to keep spamming the thread.

 

[Joratox]

first of my jobs for many years was journalism (TV, radio, papers)

First of all, sorry for breaking my no reply policy, but this was too funny to not do it. Secondly, this is not for any purpose of debating, it is purely a jab towards you :
Journalists are very known for their integrity and that they never pull things out of context and twist it to serve their narrative

I'll stop now, for real this time

 

[Hungover00]

And the first part is set like a lottery in the way that anybody can loose it.

'Lose' not 'loose.' Loose is for knots or belts and such. Lose is for competitions, or items that fall down into the couch, or socks that disappear in the dryer.

 

[Ottoeight]

Are there consequences down the road for taking money from Felicia(for the date in the art gallery) and giving it to Rosiland(just telling her in the car that's what you'll be using the money for), or should I just bring it up with the club?

My standard answer would be: check the walkthrough.

But... the real answer is: we still don't know what happens if Kathleen helps.

The fact is that Felicia and Ian are Edwin's friends. Kathleen isn't. So, it's up to you if you want to decide that Edwin owes Kathleen. I wouldn't.

But I guess a player who would rather go and chat with Kathleen instead of visiting Mina wouldn't mind.

 

[Beduin123]

Journalists are very known for their integrity and that they never pull things out of context and twist it to server their narrative

Congratulations for operating stupid stereotypes as "known for". You can really stop now

 

[Beduin123]

By not being hung up i meant she doesn't worry that some prudish men may think she "looks like a crazed sex animal" and it doesn't prevent her from doing what she thinks will allow her to fulfill her goal.

There's nothing about Felicia's character that would be breaking by her enjoying sex in relative public of a secret sex club. She likes sex, she likes risk, she is exhibitionist and if anything she gets off on being seen. As Edwin can amply demonstrate during exhibition on Week 2.

OK, just to roll it up. Just imagine you are a rich and powerful man. Would you accept as equal somebody who looks like that?



I just repeat that power is about dominance, not submission. I will leave at that.

 

[ffive]

OK, just to roll it up. Just imagine you are a rich and powerful man. Would you accept as equal somebody who looks like that?

You think that "rich and powerful man" is going to look any more dignified after a sex marathon with a few girls? Especially if he's into things like getting pegged or some level of submission and/or humiliation?

Hell, you can actually give Felicia a call in the latest update and get a sneak peek of her "rich and powerful husband" after their sex session. Make sure to watch closely how rich and powerful he looks there.

Seriously, you seem to be operating on most shallow, sexist stereotypes that are far more on you, than Felicia.

 

[Beduin123]

You think that "rich and powerful man" is going to look any more dignified after a sex marathon with a few girls? Especially if he's into things like getting pegged or some level of submission and/or humiliation?

I would argue that people who seek power are much less likely to be into submission or humiliation rather than inflict those on others, but neither me nor you have statistics. So, lets leave it at that, I feel I wasted enough of my time on this anyway.