VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Vakkyr]

As for Lucy and Victoria, yes they want better lives for their kids and they understood the cost of wanting that. They willingly paid the price so I do not feel bad for whatever happened/happens to them.

I think this viewpoint is difficult to say at least. It feels a little bit cold hearted to say that they doing it willingly while it is quite clear that people took advantage of them in their predicament.

 

[Vakkyr]

I am almost certain Kathleen says grades specifically, It would be just as easy for her to say "if he did better on his exam" so im inclined to take her statement at face value. Lucy's reaction to Kathleen saying her son did not have good enough grades also makes me lean towards the fact that it was in part true, why would Lucy wince if she knew her son had good grades? If the insult is demonstrably untrue it tends to lose its effectiveness.

Then this is probably a slip up in the Writing and/or a Logic hole. As said before if Lucys Son didn't have the required grades he had no chance at being accepted and taking an entrance exam in the first place. As for why Lucys wincing, Kathleen wants to Humilate her and does it by implying that she has failed her Son as a Mother aswell as a Teacher, because her Son failed the (meddled) Entrance Exam, and a part of Lucy thinks this as well what is why it works. That's at least what i thought at the Time.

 

[nataknight]

Lowkey wished Jacob was my bff over Ian.

 

[Machete]

I do hope that once you see Veronica's circumstances further develop, you'll find her more sympathetic.

Veronica is sure a character that grows into you. She starts almost repulsive with her man's body, but playing along you get comfortable with it and you get to care of her character and personal struggle.

 

[321654]

For reference Kathleen states "Ironically, her kid's too stupid to get into St. Ives on his own merit, so she's looking for some help there.", Lucy does not say much more than "He deserves the best". I cannot remember if there are other times she, or someone else, talks about her son but that's all that is really said in your first encounter with Lucy.

That does not really answer if it was grades or a failed entrance exam, though it would be harder to influence his grades.

Also not much is mentioned about St. Ives so we are operating on what seems to be a few assumptions (probably correct though)

I think you all misunderstand private prep schools. First of all, with better student-to-teacher ratios the quality of the education is better. Such schools can and do put more time and resources into bringing the laggards back into the fold than can public schools. It's not magic, but it will better educate the less competent students. Second, classes are actually a bit easier at "elite" schools, due to reasons four and five below. Third, they typically don't "allow" students to drop out as this looks very bad to prospective customers. Rich people have idiot children too, and they want assurances that the school will force their child to become at least competent. Fourth, having on your CV and college applications that you graduated from a prestigious institution increases acceptance chances for further education or employment, regardless of whether that prestigious reputation is well founded. Fifth, there are often arrangements between preparatory academies and certain post-secondary institutions, usually informal, that all but guarantee graduates from Academy X are accepted to University Y. The point is that the connections made at such schools are the real value, not the superior education.

Source: Me. At least half of my classmates at an "elite", private, highly selective university were from "elite", private, highly selective private schools or private prep schools from Boston to Miami to Redmond to San Diego. Most of them were mediocre students of unexceptional intelligence and average study skills, a few were incomparable imbeciles, and not many were geniuses, but they were (and still are) fucking fun to party with. The only dropouts were people with severe psychological problems. No one was flunked out.

I will 100% concede this point to you as I have no experience with the way things are in American schools. I was thinking it was similar as to getting into a university.
Do you need to pass an entrance exam to get into one? For those that cannot keep up with the school work, for competence or intellectual reasons, how do prep schools handle that? Do they just fake their results or do prep school graduates just get into what ever university that want to?

 

[Vakkyr]

For reference Kathleen states "Ironically, her kid's too stupid to get into St. Ives on his own merit, so she's looking for some help there.", Lucy does not say much more than "He deserves the best". I cannot remember if there are other times she, or someone else, talks about her son but that's all that is really said in your first encounter with Lucy.

That does not really answer if it was grades or a failed entrance exam, though it would be harder to influence his grades.

Also not much is mentioned about St. Ives so we are operating on what seems to be a few assumptions (probably correct though)





I will 100% concede this point to you as I have no experience with the way things are in American schools. I was thinking it was similar as to getting into a university.
Do you need to pass an entrance exam to get into one? For those that cannot keep up with the school work, for competence or intellectual reasons, how do prep schools handle that? Do they just fake their results or do prep school graduates just get into what ever university that want to?

Yeah we definitely working a lot with asumptions and interpretations here because we know only so little about Lucy in the end.

As for the School thing, just as Bill Temple already mentioned this type of schools have more interest and possibilities to help a student graduate, even if it's just barely. For starters there are usually things like turtoring programs or special asingments Students can do to improve their grades. And then there are usually much more applications then those Schools can accomodate, so some sort of selection process is needed. Usually this is something like entrance exams and interviews. And of course connections, Status and stuff that come into play here. At least as far as i know.

 

[selberdreher]

For reference Kathleen states "Ironically, her kid's too stupid to get into St. Ives on his own merit, so she's looking for some help there.", Lucy does not say much more than "He deserves the best". I cannot remember if there are other times she, or someone else, talks about her son but that's all that is really said in your first encounter with Lucy.

That does not really answer if it was grades or a failed entrance exam, though it would be harder to influence his grades.

Also not much is mentioned about St. Ives so we are operating on what seems to be a few assumptions (probably correct though)

I will 100% concede this point to you as I have no experience with the way things are in American schools. I was thinking it was similar as to getting into a university.
Do you need to pass an entrance exam to get into one? For those that cannot keep up with the school work, for competence or intellectual reasons, how do prep schools handle that? Do they just fake their results or do prep school graduates just get into what ever university that want to?

There is a highly prestigious private boarding school in my area, preparing kids for the general university access eligibility diploma supervised by the government in my country. While it is not comparable one to one to the american system, we can get a hunch how this things work. It is a bit complicated, like nearly everything in my country, so let me explain.
The government prides itself in believing there are relatively high standards to achieve this diploma and has established safeguards to ensure the standards. Nonetheless nowadays roughly 47% of a birth cohort successfully achieve this diploma, while in the sixties only 6% did. There are more than one reasons this number skyrocketed, but it is safe to assume the kids nowadays are not so much smarter than their (grand-)grandparents generation.

The end grade of the diploma itself is a composite of 2/3rd of the average grades from the last two school years on specified subjects and to a 1/3rd from the grade on the final exit exam issued and supervised by the government.
So the school has direct influence on 2/3rds of the overall grade and indirect influence on the other third.

So how does this specific school handles that?

First of all they ensure there is indeed a baseline of smart, intelligent kids, by granting stipends to children who can't afford the tuition fees, based solely on the academic capabilities of these. That's good for the schools image ('We care not only for the rich!'), and studies on learning showed, that smart kids tend to raise the grades of their peers, while dumb kids tend to lower the grades of their peers. So basically the dumb, rich kids are profiting of their poorer, intelligent peers by their mere presence already.
If you are not one of the smart kids with a stipend, your way into the school is mainly by money, with the really expensive tuition serving as gatekeeper, and to a smaller part recommendation (although the money is still necessary). If there is an entrance exam it serves the purpose of scanning for the intelligent ones, it will not completely lock out the ones with connections and money.

Second, since 2/3rd of the final diploma, which allows you into universtity, is based on grades from school, there is alot they can do.
Having access to your pupils schedule 24/7 (it's a boarding school), gives the school enormous leverage to improve their grades by, for instance, mandantory extra lessons in their weaker subjects. And while there is a specified set of subjects demanded by the government, in theory the pupil and in fact the school, are allowed to drop some of them and choose others instead. So while it is not possible to completely avoid math, one could drop the sciences (chemistry, biology and physics) entirely and opt for arts, sports and economics instead. So the school encourages to drop the pupils weaker subjects and choose their stronger ones instead. The school has also enormous leeway in conducting and grading the tests of their pupils which will lead to the overall schoolyears grade of a given subject. If you tell your students exactly what is expected in the next test and how to prepare for it, you have a good chance, that they will master it at least passable. They also encourage pupils to do community services outside the school, officially to build their character, but in fact to get them extra credits. So they basically ensure their students go into the final exams with an average of like a B in their chosen subjects.
The last 6 months of school are heavily concentrated on prepping the kids for the final government issued exams, ironing out remaining deficits to ensure they get at least a passing grade on that exam. So worst case the students leaves the school with an government issued diploma from a secondary school qualifying for university admission or matriculation with a grade of C.

As Bill Temple already mentioned, the main purpose of these schools is to establish connections at an early age between the upcoming generation of the elite. Even with a very average university admission diploma they are already set for life, if they don't fuck up severely and completely down the line, and the really elite 1% recover even from that.

Lucy decided to play the system, although she is neither rich nor her kid is smart, so she has to pay the price in another currency. There is nothing forced to it, i understand and endorse her commitment as a mother, but she wasn't really in a pinch like Victoria as a widow or Rosalind with her debts. I would have kind of preferred to pitch Lucy against Rosie and Felicia, but i can understand the decision to go for another angle by choosing Veronica as the third carnation.

 

[Machete]

It's kinda fun to me. Back in my days universities here where pretty much free to access for everyone. Once you were in, the hell starts. You were completely dump on your own. You could follow your year courses or not, no string attached and honestly i always found courses a waste of time. Whatever the course was about you could learn a whole semester of it in 3 weeks by your own, once you knew your way around. You where only expected to go at the exams when they where available (about 3 times a year). If you could pass it, good for you. If you couldn't sucks to be you. Of the about 150 people who started with me maybe 30 graduated, the other dropped at some point or went to Economics which was a lot easier. It was more about to prove you could master your major on your own then teaching.

 

[selberdreher]

It's kinda fun to me. Back in my days universities here where pretty much free to access for everyone. Once you were in, the hell starts. You were completely dump on your own. You could follow your year courses or not, no string attached and honestly i always found courses a waste of time. Whatever the course was about you could learn a whole semester of it in 3 weeks by your own, once you knew your way around. You where only expected to go at the exams when they where available (about 3 times a year). If you could pass it, good for you. If you couldn't sucks to be you. Of the about 150 people who started with me maybe 30 graduated, the other dropped at some point or went to Economics which was a lot easier. It was more about to prove you could master your major on your own then teaching.

The universities are tuition free in my country, so the government seeks to somewhat restrict the access. That's what these secondary school exit diplomas are for. They are granting access to whatever university in whichever study subject (again it's a bit more complicated than that, but i'll leave it be) in my country.
So as soon as you got it, you can aim for (in theory) medicine, law or engineering.

Otherwise it was very much like you described it, each student had very much freedom in conducting their studies, but had on the other hand to fend for oneself and figure out how to pass the exams. Since the introduction of the bachelor and masters degree (we had different university degrees back then), however, things have changed towards a more formalized and regulated curriculum without to much freedom for the students anymore.

 

[selberdreher]

Anyways i think it's time for another round of an (improved) Tiermaker List for our lovely PC Female Cast. Based on the original one done

You must be registered to see the links

, i added a sorely missing F tier and changed the colour setting.

I had to do two of them, the first being sexual Attraction towards the Women and the second is Attraction to their Personality, and as you can see they differ quite a bit. Finally i merged them in a kind of overall Attraction Tier.

Sexual Attraction:


S-Tier: Hotter than a Supernova: both are near perfection, get us some action with Mrs Beaufort already, dammit!
A-Tier: UltraHot: Mina is a tiny bit to skinny to be S-Tier, and Lucy just cannot compete with the sex-goddesses in S-Tier
B-Tier: MegaHot: if A-Tier wasnt already taken they would be in there
C-Tier: SuperHot: i generally prefer a more delicate body, but i can jerk off to those beauties anytime
D-Tier: Very Hot, but with some Flaws: Veronica is too muscular for my taste and Kathleen a tad too old
F-Tier: Not interested; the Looser Tier, i dont like Harpers Tattoos, her Haircut and her Face

Attraction to their personality:


S-Tier: what is not to like? Victoria is strong, funny, smart, a fighter, loving and caring. Any Flaws? I dont see them
A-Tier: i like them all very much, everyone for different reasons, but sorry girls: S-Tier is already taken
B-Tier: Veronica has her merits, but i had to take her out of the A-Tier, compared to the others there
C-Tier: Lucy as mentioned above, barely makes it out of D, Dalia seem to care for her housegirls, which is a good trait.
D-Tier: Mrs Beaufort comes off cold and calculating, Harper is in my eyes boring, Pink Girl is a bit annoying.
F-Tier: Kathleen, does she have any redeeming personality traits? i would have to search very hard to find them.

So my new Overall Attraction Chart would look like:

Spoiler: List of my Favourites

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No big movements since the last list in january, just some small adjustments, caused mainly through the introduction of the F-Tier, and therefore being able to fine tune. Although i probably need a Tier between A and B to get Vicky and Rosie together again. Means Victoria could be very well A and Rosie could be also in B. They are a bit below Hana, but above Lucy.

Cheers!

 

[Machete]

The universities are tuition free in my country, so the government seeks to somewhat restrict the access. That's what these secondary school exit diplomas are for. They are granting access to whatever university in whichever study subject (again it's a bit more complicated than that, but i'll leave it be) in my country.
So as soon as you got it, you can aim for (in theory) medicine, law or engineering.

Otherwise it was very much like you described it, each student had very much freedom in conducting their studies, but had on the other hand to fend for oneself and figure out how to pass the exams. Since the introduction of the bachelor and masters degree (we had different university degrees back then), however, things have changed towards a more formalized and regulated curriculum without to much freedom for the students anymore.

Here too. Eventually they changed route. The drop out rare was insane. Now adays most of universities accept a limited number of students per year, so you go to take an entry exam and only the top N per year get in. My nephew a couple of years ago said that she "changed her mind" about studing medicine. I'm pretty sure she botched the admission Sorry for her, but she'll find her way.

 

[KKpotato]

Anyways i think it's time for another round of an (improved) Tiermaker List for our lovely PC Female Cast. Based on the original one done

You must be registered to see the links

, i added a sorely missing F tier and changed the colour setting.

I had to do two of them, the first being sexual Attraction towards the Women and the second is Attraction to their Personality, and as you can see they differ quite a bit. Finally i merged them in a kind of overall Attraction Tier.

Sexual Attraction:

View attachment 1976462
S-Tier: Hotter than a Supernova: both are near perfection, get us some action with Mrs Beaufort already, dammit!
A-Tier: UltraHot: Mina is a tiny bit to skinny to be S-Tier, and Lucy just cannot compete with the sex-goddesses in S-Tier
B-Tier: MegaHot: if A-Tier wasnt already taken they would be in there
C-Tier: SuperHot: i generally prefer a more delicate body, but i can jerk off to those beauties anytime
D-Tier: Very Hot, but with some Flaws: Veronica is too muscular for my taste and Kathleen a tad too old
F-Tier: Not interested; the Looser Tier, i dont like Harpers Tattoos, her Haircut and her Face

Attraction to their personality:
View attachment 1976476

S-Tier: what is not to like? Victoria is strong, funny, smart, a fighter, loving and caring. Any Flaws? I dont see them
A-Tier: i like them all very much, everyone for different reasons, but sorry girls: S-Tier is already taken
B-Tier: Veronica has her merits, but i had to take her out of the A-Tier, compared to the others there
C-Tier: Lucy as mentioned above, barely makes it out of D, Dalia seem to care for her housegirls, which is a good trait.
D-Tier: Mrs Beaufort comes off cold and calculating, Harper is in my eyes boring, Pink Girl is a bit annoying.
F-Tier: Kathleen, does she have any redeeming personality traits? i would have to search very hard to find them.

So my new Overall Attraction Chart would look like:

Spoiler: List of my Favourites

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

No big movements since the last list in january, just some small adjustments, caused mainly through the introduction of the F-Tier, and therefore being able to fine tune. Although i probably need a Tier between A and B to get Vicky and Rosie together again. Means Victoria could be very well A and Rosie could be also in B. They are a bit below Hana, but above Lucy.

Cheers!

The tier is rigged. Any tier that places Mina or Hana Below S is rigged.

 

[Vakkyr]

Last thing i'll write about this because i think we going in circles here and loosing ourself in minor details that we neither can change nor can we say with certainty wich of our asumptions would be correct.

This is the crux of why she would be less compelling from a story point of a view, she is not in a pinch at all. Its not like the choice is between St Ives (a fancy top tier private school) and the worst public school in state. If he does not get into St Ives he is still likely to go to a decent private school. Like ive said in my previous post her problem is either:

A.) Her child did not get into the high school she had to prostitute herself so he gets in (assuming that guy keeps his word)
B.) She wants her child to have the best head start in life

I still think that you look at it too much from an Neutral/Pragmatic point of view. If you look at it without trying to put yourself in the shoes of the Characters you could say all Carnations aswell as Lucy and Victoria had "better" alternatives as partaking in this/ doing Porn in Victorias case.

Lucy could have just suck it up and settle for the next best School for her Son. But that is not how being a Parent (should) Work(s).
For her, her Son deserves the best, so she does what she can to give him the best. You simply (should) don't calculate if the "Investment" in your Child will be "worth it", it is just not important. As a parent you love your Child unconditionaly, and you will go through enormous lenghts to make sure your Child can grow up Happily and Life a fulfilling Live. So to say she werent in a pinch at all is ignoring her feelings as a Mother completely in my opinion.

Same goes for Veronica, sure she could have easily gotten a second Job, cutting down on their Living expenses and Living from paycheck to paycheck like Millions of other Single Parents do. But she couldnt bring herself to do this because of the MC.

Even for Rose you could say she could work Multiple Jobs cutting down on Living expenses or simply running away with her Daughter to another State in the Hope they wouldn't find her. Or, if this wouldn't work, she could still doing what Vermonica did. Wouldn't be perfect of course, but still better then the Club. But she, just as the other 2, is doing it for her Child so she caan live her Happy life at is is without being confronted with how cruel this World can be.

For Veronica she could simply change her policies in her Gym to try to save the place or suck it up griefe about it and live on. But for her this place means so much more as well as the rules she has for it. Giving up on it or changing it would not just mean betraying herself she would also betray her Mentor and this she cant't bring herself to do. She would probably never look at herself in the mirror again if she would do this.

For Felicia i'm not far enough in her Story right now to say something to her motivations. But i'm sure you could find a "better" solution to her Problems as well if you don't consider her Personality and feelings.

Please don't get me wrong i don't want to imply here that you are a unempathetic or coldhearted person, it's just if you look at Characters only from the perspective you mentioned you possibly find flaws in most Characters that where ever created in fiction.

IMO if the competition was between rose, lucy, and felica you run into 2 big issues the first being that logically the votes for rose and lucy should be divided because of their similarities and the second that instead of having 3 "unique goals" you really only get 2 goals between 3 people. While this is a game and it could be written in a way that Lucy and Rose dont split their votes logically two people who fill a very very similar niche (busty submissive mom with a teenaged child who has had a small pool of sexual partners) should be competing for the same votes in the club ie the guy who likes breasts/milk would have to chose between one and thus cost the other a vote. In the meantime anybody who does not prefer that type is either forced to vote for Felica or abstain from voting all together. As far as I can tell Lucy's goal is basically just a combination of Rose and Felica's true goal with the exception that Felica wants connections/power beyond a single goal.

I'm totally with you here. Veronica is for the Competition the better choice because she is different from the other two. It's not that i would have liked to see Lucy in Veronicas place, it's more that i think of it as a big loss that Lucy was so quickly tossed aside instead becomming something like an "half carnation" or even let her become a House Girl but keep her more in the Loop. We got an glimpse on her possible Backstory that i liked to see more of.

Whats with her Son, her Marriage, herself as a Character. I just would have loved to know more about her and to have an actual impact in her fate as a Player. Let me help her through her fate, maybe make her feel loved and desired as a Woman again if she really is stuck in a kinda dead marriage, or let me lead her down a dark path with her becomming a full fledged Sexslave/Cumslut if the playe is on the Bad Guy path.

I think everything would have been better as what i saw until now done to her. As much as i like her and had loved to see more of her, i think i had preffered if she would have been phased out completely after the competition, rather than seeing her put through more abuse damned to stand by while feeling powerless because the MC can't help her.

Has it been stated anywhere that the Customer working at St Ives HAS to allow her son in after the summer? She is not a carnation so the club is in no way accountable for promises he made? Really adds to the tragedy of her character if at the end of the game Kathleen just says "lol you got played by the lesser version of Mihir"

I think Kathleen stated that she became a House Girl in exchange for her Son getting into the School despite her loosing against Veronica. But yeah it would fit with Kathleen and that ugly bastard of her colleague to take it away from her in the end to totally destroy her...

 

[Hentai7777]

Question so i want Mina but how to get her? do i have not to get any initmate with the other girls or can i balance it out but the problem is there no way to check in proflie to see what character points that it is on.

 

[starkj]

Question so i want Mina but how to get her? do i have not to get any initmate with the other girls or can i balance it out but the problem is there no way to check in proflie to see what character points that it is on.

You can go for everyone if you want without any consequences, at least for now. Statistics will show up after prologue.

 

[Machete]

Question so i want Mina but how to get her? do i have not to get any initmate with the other girls or can i balance it out but the problem is there no way to check in proflie to see what character points that it is on.

I would say this game is way too well made on a psychological point of you that i wouldn't care too much and i'd go with the flow on the choices

 

[baka]

this is my pick.
I really like the top 3 girls.
I hope there will be a way to corrupt the top 2 girls as well.

 

[KKpotato]

View attachment 1976964

this is my pick.
I really like the top 3 girls.
I hope there will be a way to corrupt the top 2 girls as well.

 

[Hentai7777]

I would say this game is way too well made on a psychological point of you that i wouldn't care too much and i'd go with the flow on the choices

God of RPG why is so hard to get Mina nude on the bed, it my second time rush through she still not my lover i end up with telling her the truth again about Lan and nothing still and i was using a walkthrough too for the whole severly hours too. i mma have to look again what skill setup that is require for her specific.

 

[Hentai7777]

God of RPG why is so hard to get Mina nude on the bed, it my second time rush through she still not my lover i end up with telling her the truth again about Lan and nothing still and i was using a walkthrough too for the whole severly hours too. i mma have to look again what skill setup that is require for her specific.