VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Ungawa]

I'll be honest: I feel very uncomfortable when she humiliates the Carnations, mostly Rosalind. The electric shocks "game" made me feel miserable.
I hate her so much.

The fact that your work is thrilling me so much tells me how damn good your writing is, in my opinion.

Yep, that's quality heel heat.

Kathleen is that one manager on the side that riles up the crowd while their wrestler's doing this thing and brings in a chair or something while the ref is blind to hit someone.

You hate what she's doing, but you gotta respect the hustle.

She's drugged Edwin, taken her sister's charity to use for Carnation pumping, got her hustles on the side and got someone to corrupt.

And her husband's a goddamn judge that don't know anything about ANY of this while she's for the EVULZ.

Good lord, a capable quality villain and a DD rack?

Thank YOU Mutt and Jeff for showing how evil stays in fashion!

Spoiler: Good to be evil...

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[Daken9]

Kathleen's not that capable, though. Literally everyone that matters has her number, and that's pretty much the only reason they keep around. She's just too limited and small picture to actually ever become a threat. Hell, any Edwin who doesn't feed her hilariously overt plays has her number, and he's only known her for a couple weeks. Not that she's completely without skill, i guess if not having a conscience can be considered such then it served her well, but the more the game goes on and the more i get the feeling that she's really small fry.

 

[Ottoeight]

Kathleen's not that capable, though. Literally everyone that matters has her number, and that's pretty much the only reason they keep around. She's just too limited and small picture to actually ever become a threat. Hell, any Edwin who doesn't feed her hilariously overt plays has her number, and he's only known her for a couple weeks. Not that she's completely incompetent although she does get completely humiliated by Veronica on week 1, but the more the game goes on and the more i get the feeling that she's really small fry.

You forgot her bond with Abel and the fact that Warren is literally her bodyguard and factotum. He does whatever she wants. And I have the feeling that the main reason our old chap Jimmy the Cop (aka the police chief) is a patron is that he openly hopes to screw her one day.

 

[Turret]

You forgot her bond with Abel

I would not overestimate this "bond". It is already clear that Abel dislikes, loathes all three leaders of PC! Kath currently simply has her uses for Abel and Sophia, so she is not in the immediate crosshairs.

 

[1000Spiders]

Yep, that's quality heel heat.

Agreed. She's a repulsive person but an amazing villain. I love to hate her.

 

[Spamwise]

I like Kathleen when she does things that bring me closer to my fetishes.

When she does things that keeps my dick out of Veronica, or suggests I torture Harper, I have issues with her.

 

[1000Spiders]

I want Kathleen to get a taste, or rather a large bucket, of her own medicine, preferably by MCs or the carnations hand.

Play a nice guy. Just be as nice as possible to all the other girls. It's basically orgasm denial for Kathleen. Call it corruption denial.
She wants to corrupt MC into venting his sadistic urges on the girls and becoming as big a monster as she is. So be the biggest white knight you can and indulge your sadistic side by denying Kathleen what she desires most. Have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Cricco]

A one way ticket to jail would also be coo, most repugnant old hag in porn. And she doesnt even look like a hag but since that shit with Veronica i'd take one of those hags from BG3 over her

 

[ename144]

Groce.

I'd wager the only players who care about kathleen are milf lovers, without a doubt a large group, probably the majority of all players here. However, my point is if you strip that away her appeal shrinks to nil. I wonder how many non-milf-lovers even give her the time of day, I certainly don't.

I must join the chorus in disagreeing. Kathleen's appeal is entirely in her characterization: she's a villain with style, menace, AND a strong thematic link to the hero. That's a combination that's worth it's weight in gold, narratively speaking. There are plenty of antagonists I flat out hate in AVNs (see Cassandra in Artemis for an easy example); Kathleen's an antagonist I love to hate.

It's a small but crucial difference!

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

I must join the chorus in disagreeing. Kathleen's appeal is entirely in her characterization: she's a villain with style, menace, AND a strong thematic link to the hero. That's a combination that's worth it's weight in gold, narratively speaking. There are plenty of antagonists I flat out hate in AVNs (see Cassandra in Artemis for an easy example); Kathleen's an antagonist I love to hate.

It's a small but crucial difference!

But again, I'd ask, are you normally a fan of milfs? I understand the distinction you're making, for me it's the former, flat out.

 

[ename144]

But again, I'd ask, are you normally a fan of milfs? I understand the distinction you're making, for me it's the former, flat out.

Not as such.

I like emotional maturity, but even in real life that's not always proportional to age; in fiction they're almost completely decoupled. As far as the classic 'desperate, busty housewife' role MILFs are usually relegated to in AVNs, I hate it. Even more nuanced takes on the trope usually don't do it for me. I mean, it's not coincidence I don't have a dedicated Rosalind save thus far. The only dedicated MILF I can think of who cracks my favorite characters list is Carolina from Friends in Need, and she has almost nothing in common with Kathleen.

I believe I can safely say my interest in Kat is entirely MILF-free.

 

[Ungawa]

But again, I'd ask, are you normally a fan of milfs? I understand the distinction you're making, for me it's the former, flat out.

I don't think this is all about milf lovers though. Rosalind is the Mommy Milker and yes, I'm busy on that one and have basically headcanoned the fact that Rosalind is winning the first game, no exceptions.

The appeal of Kathleen is the honest and brutal dissection of what makes her tick. Kathleen doesn't sugar coat a goddamned thing she's going to do. Sure, she'll hide what she's doing if need be, but she's a sadistic crazy psychobitch and has the empathy to know it. As someone explained in the past, you have Hana and Kathleen (along with the entire crew) having to deal with a dichotomy.

For Kathleen, she spells it out for you. Her sister was the better half of the two and she's the darker side. Give in to your darker impulses, she likes you. She sees those darker impulses and that's what excites her.

How she views Veronica is her seeing what's inside. She calls em like she sees them.

But you know what made that Veronica/Kathleen relationship so goddamned special?

She put Veronica through that, got hoisted on her own petard, got 3 goddamn orgasms, got spanked...

AND THAT BITCH HIT BACK WITH A FUCKING RECEIPT WHEN SHE HAD THE CHANCE!!!!

I mean, I know I'm petty when someone tries to steal my meat, but Good Gods...

That's some villainy...

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

I don't think this is all about milf lovers though. Rosalind is the Mommy Milker and yes, I'm busy on that one and have basically headcanoned the fact that Rosalind is winning the first game, no exceptions.

The appeal of Kathleen is the honest and brutal dissection of what makes her tick. Kathleen doesn't sugar coat a goddamned thing she's going to do. Sure, she'll hide what she's doing if need be, but she's a sadistic crazy psychobitch and has the empathy to know it. As someone explained in the past, you have Hana and Kathleen (along with the entire crew) having to deal with a dichotomy.

For Kathleen, she spells it out for you. Her sister was the better half of the two and she's the darker side. Give in to your darker impulses, she likes you. She sees those darker impulses and that's what excites her.

How she views Veronica is her seeing what's inside. She calls em like she sees them.

But you know what made that Veronica/Kathleen relationship so goddamned special?

She put Veronica through that, got hoisted on her own petard, got 3 goddamn orgasms, got spanked...

AND THAT BITCH HIT BACK WITH A FUCKING RECEIPT WHEN SHE HAD THE CHANCE!!!!

I mean, I know I'm petty when someone tries to steal my meat, but Good Gods...

That's some villainy...

It's just interesting to hear others' perspectives; I would still venture enjoying her character requires some base attractive. For me, I don't care what makes her tick. I don't care that she's a psycho. I don't care that she has darker impulses contrasting with empathy. Evertime I see her, I want to leave the room asap. To me she's a hag trying to relive her more exciting years by more and more extreme sadism. If there was a prompt to run the company as a pair with kathleen or kick her out and never see her in the game again, my reaction time would be in milliseconds.

But that's just me, and I'm glad others find her scenes enjoyable!

 

[1000Spiders]

But again, I'd ask, are you normally a fan of milfs? I understand the distinction you're making, for me it's the former, flat out.

I don't think that's relevant here. MILF fans want to fuck the MILF. I don't think Ename ever said he wanted to fuck Kathleen; he said he appreciates her characterization. As in, he likes how well she's written.

Same with me. I don't want to fuck her, I want to kill her. Or at least get her sent to prison for life. She's doing her job as a villain, which is to make me feel angry and hostile toward her.

So, all that said, how do you feel about Kathleen? Do you want to see her get her just desserts? Or do you think the game would have been better had she never been written?

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

It's just interesting to hear others' perspectives; I would still venture enjoying her character requires some base attractive. For me, I don't care what makes her tick.

If it helps, I don't particularly find Chuck attractive but I'm very interested to see what's next for Sophia after he wins at chess

 

[Petani_online]

Say, is it possible the choice offer of partnering from Rosalind after dinner with the Carnations doesn appear?

 

[Ottoeight]

Say, is it possible the choice offer of partnering from Rosalind after dinner with the Carnations doesn appear?

No

 

[DirtyMario]

But again, I'd ask, are you normally a fan of milfs? I understand the distinction you're making, for me it's the former, flat out.

From a superficial standpoint this question is kind of redundant since there is pretty much no possibility to create a milf in HS beyond giving her grey hair and stating her age in the bio.
While I am indeed a fan of milfs, I do have a bit of a problem with torture so I'm not a fan of Kat in particular.

 

[Ungawa]

It's just interesting to hear others' perspectives; I would still venture enjoying her character requires some base attractive. For me, I don't care what makes her tick. I don't care that she's a psycho. I don't care that she has darker impulses contrasting with empathy. Evertime I see her, I want to leave the room asap. To me she's a hag trying to relive her more exciting years by more and more extreme sadism. If there was a prompt to run the company as a pair with kathleen or kick her out and never see her in the game again, my reaction time would be in milliseconds.

But that's just me, and I'm glad others find her scenes enjoyable!

But that's just it. It's not the *scenes*. It's the *character*.

She is a great character for giving us a lot with her unique outlook. A woman in a cathouse that is part of high society and capable of the worst villainy. In a VN about duality, she takes the cake. I understand that some run from that, but it's not even about embracing her. It's about what she brings to the table and how she can show you even more about each of the Carnations she interacts with. Makes it that much more when you connect with each girl.

And yeah, I'm playing good Edwin for the most part.

Just kind of ironic that I just understood that she really IS a bad mommy though. She's teaching you the dark side while your mother taught you better.

Huh... Just understood the duality...

 

[Ottoeight]

Just kind of ironic that I just understood that she really IS a bad mommy though. She's teaching you the dark side while your mother taught you better.

She's teaching him the dark side, AND she's purpotedly harming and damaging him.

Just think about this:

Spoiler

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