VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[camube]

Huh I always just assumed that was a house girl mostly because it is never mentioned or brought up again? I think that being Sophia really strengthens the idea that Chuck wants something more beyond sex. As it stands right now Chuck watched Sophia be creampied by one (more likely multiple) people, while eating (or watching) people eat off her and decided that he had to "earn" the right to do the same. I understand that she is a genius who even the doctor admits is beyond him but why does chuck want sloppy seconds (thirds... or fourths etc). As it stands right now the most logical answer I can think of is this:

Sophia/The Doctor wanted everyone in the VIP area to fuck Sophia but chuck refused because he knew that (somehow) Sophia getting fucked by the VIPs is advantageous to them. The Doctor seems to treat Sophia with the same amount of respect he does everybody else, and isnt a degenerate who would get off by watching a bunch of men he doesn't personally know fuck her, if anything he seems to be the least interested in sex of all the customers (because he is mostly there for testing purposes?), He does not seem like someone who would use drugs to brainwash/whyever she is so subservient but then admonish and call kathleen a bitch for doing the same to a lesser extent, She also is seemingly immune to the perfume so its not like it was uncontrollable lust (MC when Kathleen uses the perfume is "uncontrollable"), nor does everyone else in the room seem to be "uncontrolled"

This isnt perfect as it doesn't anwser why the Sophia/Doctor would think that it is beneficial other than distracting chuck, or why chuck knew what they were doing or why he otherwise declined. I feel like that might feel a bit like the scene with the head girl on a replay (it kind of feels out of place) especially if they play a large role in the endings.

Can you remind me again when did the Sophia table scene happened?

 

[selberdreher]

Can you remind me again when did the Sophia table scene happened?

on Friday Night, 5th of June, before the first gathering with the carnations at the diner, after Edwins shower scene in which he recollects on what has happened so far.

 

[camube]

on Friday Night, 5th of June, before the first gathering with the carnations at the diner, after Edwins shower scene in which he recollects on what has happened so far.

Ahhh, right! Thank you!

 

[SanaeS]

IIRC we never seen Chuck taking physical advantage of any woman recently. He also never showed a visible erection during one of the exhibitions. I am not implying that Chuck is impotent, and he had for sure plenty of "real" sex in his younger days, but i theorise that Chuck has somewhat transcended the need for physical, corporeal sex.

I like that idea of Chuck being so perverted that even if he actually is impotent he would still have nasty toughts from a lifetime of depravity and use the club girls to satisfy his "needs".
If we follow this route maybe the drug will be the key factor on a possible Chuck-Abel-Kath alliance since it should be the only way to make him able to have sex like the good old times.

 

[selberdreher]

As per usual a very detailed and interesting answer the only thing that pokes a very slight hole in it for me is that whomever is having the drug tested on them (the one begging to get out) has been under the effects for multiple days right? If that is the case and they are still cognizant enough to be begging for help after multiple days it seems unlikely that it would have any personality/behavior changes (beyond the obvious increased libido). Thinking about it I guess the table scene is before so they might have decided it was worth not waiting. Still like your explanation better than Van Doren did it because old man at sex club

Thx .

i should have added "* while under the influence."
Apparently there is a certain amount of time until the effect of the drug wears off. The pitiful victim in the basement was tested repeatedly to gauge for changes in her tolerance to the drug. Also there are different versions of the drug, with later versions being more powerful. Slight modifications or different versions allow for different application methods, we know of at least three: inhaling (Kathleens perfume), imbibing (used in Veronicas contest) and injecting (used on Edwin in his gonzo reward).
I think Kat uses an earlier version in her perfume, because in this scenario its fault is actual beneficial, it is weak enough to arouse a recipient, but not strong enough to drive them crazy, and she could build up enough tolerance to use it on herself safely.
Because self-reports from (especially unwilling) subjects about mental and cognitive effects tend to be unreliable, Sophia could have been tempted to test it on herself to get better data.

 

[DirtyMario]

Here is Sophia displayed on the table:

Spoiler

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I assume that this was an early scene that used Sophias model, but not actually Sophia at this point.
At least being displayed and used like a common house girl would definitely call her whole background into question.
Maybe TD1900 can say something about that.

 

[Bill Temple]

I assume that this was an early scene that used Sophias model, but not actually Sophia at this point.
At least being displayed and used like a common house girl would definitely call her whole background into question.
Maybe TD1900 can say something about that.

I think that scene is when Kathleen is talking to Abel van Doren about testing the drug, just hours before Abel is introduced to Edwin the night of the week 1 exhibition. Sophia is present when Edwin meets van Doren, and she's frequently with Van Doren. Van Doren offers her to Chuck pretty casually in later scenes with no reaction from her. It's pretty clear that van Doren offered her to Samson and Vincenzo. The feeling I get is that Van Doren has trained/brainwashed absolute obedience and depravity into the brilliant doctor, probably with some pharmaceutical help.

 

[TKYC1234]

Is there any kind of tracker in the game that tells you which girl won which challenge? I was trying to remember who won the 1st exhibition in my play through but can't.

 

[selberdreher]

Edwin makes his first contact with Kathleens perfume in their limousine scene, which happens on Monday 11th of May, waaaay before Sophias (if we assume it's her, DirtyMario doubts it) table scene. The formula used in her perfume seems to be a relatively early iteration since it is too weak to effect him from a distance greater than approximately one meter. However, as soon as Edwin sits down right beside Kat, it results in an instant hard-on and evokes pornographic pictures in his brain, while Kathleen appears to be unaffected. To build up enough tolerance, she needed to use the perfume at least for a couple of times already.

In my post here i went into more detail on that matter, i don't believe it was tested on Sophia for the first time.

With an unwilling test subject you can gain objective data like blood pressure, pulse and respiration frequency, urine and blood samples to check out her physiological chemistry. Furthermore you can observe her behaviour under influence, but these results can be tainted by misinterpretation on the observers side and fraudulent conduct on the subjects side. Self-reports of the drugs impact on mental and cognitive properties are practically worthless, if the subject isn't cooperating.
So conducting a self-experiment can yield valuable data, which Sophia can't get reliable otherwise and helps in estimating the error of the behavioral observations.

At that point why not just do it in a lab setting? You get the exact same test as long as random male participants are brought in.

For two reasons:

1. Lack of location
2. The illegal nature of the experiment

van Doren and Sophia cannot use their companies facilities, they cannot use a random apartment or motel, they cannot use the basement or other premises of the club (since it has a strict membership policy) with random strangers .
"Sign up for a medical experiment in a rundown motel. Nympho provided, moneyshots free of charge!" Sounds sketchy, right?
Whereas camouflaging your "obviously subservient" assistant with an official house girl slut costume, and let her conduct the test with unsuspecting and willing male participants in a rather safe environment will do the trick nicely, don't you think?

 

[TD1900]

I assume that this was an early scene that used Sophias model, but not actually Sophia at this point.
At least being displayed and used like a common house girl would definitely call her whole background into question.
Maybe TD1900 can say something about that.

That is indeed Sophia in that scene.

It's probably due to the huge time between scenes (and her wearing a house girl uniform), but I don't think most people connected that with her later appearances. I suspect she wouldn't be as high as second in the side character poll if people did.

As for the rationale behind the situation... you guys are having an interesting discussion that I don't want to ruin with my own rationale.

 

[DirtyMario]

As for the rationale behind the situation... you guys are having an interesting discussion that I don't want to ruin with my own rationale.

Appreciate that, even if I'm more confused now than before.
But that's okay, I know you guys have a firm grip on the story and can't wait to find out through gameplay.

 

[ddaisy]

Hah, I thought it surely can't be Sophia and has to be some other similar girl employeed at the club.

 

[Idontplay]

Welcome to Pale Carnation, the place where everything you cannot usually do isn't simply possible but also normal.

 

[Turret]

That is indeed Sophia in that scene.

It's probably due to the huge time between scenes (and her wearing a house girl uniform), but I don't think most people connected that with her later appearances. I suspect she wouldn't be as high as second in the side character poll if people did.

As for the rationale behind the situation... you guys are having an interesting discussion that I don't want to ruin with my own rationale.

That is very interesting! I thought it might be the use of a similar model style by Gil as the more likely variant, when I saw the similarity when Sophia appeared "first".
But I can see why she made this self-experiment. We know from dialogue that Abel and Sophia are advancing fast with refining the stuff. Kath has an early version with clear limits on potency, duration, range and how quick you can build up tolerance.
I think their newer version is quite more potent and needs more adjustments as well. The first iteration might have been so strong, that Sophia was taken away from it too. She became as hot as others and did test out a fantasy of her own. First in secret, then costumed as a housegirl so it does not become obvious on casual observation.
Since Abel respects and likes Sophia a lot (among other things she will inherit his medicine Empire), he might let her live out her sexual fantasies without a fuss, but I think he might have become concerned enough during the earlier testing that he forbid further self-testing by Sophia until the drug is more stable, fínetuned and controllable.
Since Kath is preparing a powerplay in the future and she is callous and sadistic enough, might have brought up the idea to test the sex drug on housegirls which Kath thinks needs punishment. That the drug is becoming better can be seen in that Sophia is using a variant as perfume which Edwin recognises from Kath but seems stronger to him.

 

[selberdreher]

I think this is where we will have to agree to disagree (until more information is provided). In my eyes they would be able to do it at basically anywhere as there is nothing inherently illegal about a women having sex with another person(s), for the illegal nature to be exposed the person having sex would have to somehow realize Sophia was not being "herself" and somehow conclude that it was due to an illegal non tested super aphrodisiac instead of any of the more reasonable explanations (ie sophia is just horny, was drunk, was on a legal drug etc). This obviously applies only to testing it on herself as testing it on another (unwilling) person is made much easier with the club.

Yes, of course, doing it somewhere else and with strangers is technically doable, but presents challenges of their own and none of the ifs, buts and probablys are unsurmountable, but all of them require additional effort, money and leave traces.

Lets remember the preconditions: its a self-experiment of a fairly new drug, it has to happen in the USA, Tristate Area and it involves sex.
If you don't believe in the experiment thesis you don't have to read any further.

Basically you have three options to stage a meeting for sex:

1. a private hook-up: legal between consenting adults
2. a (fake) porn-shoot: legal under certain conditions, like the one above plus paperwork
3. prostitution: illegal in most US-States

and of course you need again a location for that.

• ideally you would use the labs at the company for best scientific results, but it requires either guest passes for the male participants and a fake purpose to use them or you have to bribe corporate security and perhaps the janitor. Leaves in my opionion to many undesirable traces.
• use either van Dorens, Sophias or a rented appartment, with the first two options probably undesirable for privacy reasons and the last one requiring again paperwork and money.
• use an expensive hotel, a normal hotel or a cheap motel, all of them require normally an ID for check in. In a cheap motel again money could solve the issue, and an expensive hotel, which is for instance already aquainted with van Doren, may be discreet enough to let him do his business without asking questions and without filing him in the books, but again money.
• use a brothel: illegal, costs money, no questions asked, but susceptible to random razzias from the citys vice squad. If there was only one brothel without that risk...

Lets have a quick look at the three option above:

Prostitution requires finding a customer either through streetwork, advertising on a hostess website or hanging out in hotel bars or brothels. Requires time, has potential security issues for Sophia both from the police and from violent johns, so perhaps additional muscles are needed, there is also the matter of potential STDs because you are usually unable vet them before. If there were only readily available, known and very likely healthy clients somewhere...​

​

The fake pornshoot requires a cast, which raises potential schedule issues, requires believable stage props, a camera, a minimal staff and, since the FBI usually frowns upon underage porn, IDs from all actors plus paperwork. Highly undesirable.​

​

So lets just hook-up with some random horndog via Tinder or in a Bar? Well, putting again potential violence and STDs aside, there is another unmentioned problem: to be able to help in a case of a medical emergency and to counter-check Sophias observations, van Doren is likely to attend. Furthermore the probands of the drug appear to be slightly dazed, have often troubles with their articulation and are super horny. These symptoms are usually associated with alcohol intoxication or drug abuse. I seriously hope there aren't too many random horndogs, which get off on a presumably consent impaired woman who is being watched by her frail, old husband. Unlike you pervs i expect the majority to prefer a more vanilla setting in their one-night stands, else i would recommened to franchise the CarnationClub asap.​

Anyways this post is again already much larger than originally planned, so i try to come to a conclusion.
simpgor we don't have to disagree, i do agree with you that it is possible to do this somewhere else and with different participants.
But why should van Doren and Sophia walk the extra mile, when they have a safe and discreet location at their disposal, when they have the support of an owner, when they have prime participants readily available, when they are able to schedule the experiment whenever it is most convenient to them and are able to provide easy aftercare if something went wrong?
I think it is most plausible to choose the club setting for their endeavour.

 

[bolondro2]

Just finished to play the current update.

I´m wondering if the choice at the end of it is one major choice for the game...

 

[selberdreher]

Just finished to play the current update.

I´m wondering if the choice at the end of it is one major choice for the game...

Latest walkthrough doesn't show variables for those decisions, looks like they are mostly flavour atm.

 

[dolfe67]

Just finished to play the current update.

I´m wondering if the choice at the end of it is one major choice for the game...

If it's not major, it's certainly not minor.

From the last dev diary:

Things are proceeding smoothly. The update will start with four variables openings, dependant on who you visited at the end of Ch3Up4. We have finished the Mina and Veronica openings and are currently on the tail-end of the Victoria one. The remaining one we'll call the "Kathleen route" opening. I'm really pleased with the Veronica one in particular (I feel like her "route" is finally getting properly off the ground) and I'm hoping all four will provide some unique insights that will make each one worth reading for those of you who fancy multiple playthroughs.

 

[Deboksi]

The remaining one we'll call the "Kathleen route" opening.

YIKES fuck that. i mean dont mind the milf, but HER? miss me with that shit

 

[Qixoni]

YIKES fuck that. i mean dont mind the milf, but HER? miss me with that shit

I went to Kathleen last. Mina was locked, i´m fuck budy not lover, goig to Mom, i don´t know, i didn´t feel it. And i don´t like Veronica, and Kathleen is the best woman of the game, Mina aside. Kathleen route must be a twisted one, it´s the route i´m following with my MC