Patreon alternative site.

[OhWee]

So as @Infidelisoft mentioned, it looks like Subscribestar has moved all adult content to subscribestar.adult, and the TOS has also been changed, see this memorandum:

You must be registered to see the links

.

Here's a snippet from the memorandum:

1. SIMULATED CONTENT​

This includes, but is not limited, any computer generated, animated or otherwise artificially built video or still imagery/media, that does not effectively produce any live victims of any gender, age or race and whose participants/characters are unequivocally distinguishable from the real humans.​

​

All content with such 3D/2D animated characters that perform any action, including intercourse, violence, bodily harm, etc. is permitted for being published on SubscribeStar platform.​

The unequivocally distinguishable part... hmmm. I guess this means that if your adult game uses (presumably copyrighted) photographs of pornstars, you are out of luck. Not sure if this would also apply to any 3d characters that may look like replicas of famous people...


Service fees have increased from 5% to 7%. But at least now you can see a few of the adult subscribestars on the new 'home' page:

You must be registered to see the links

I just checked their blog page, and yes, not even a peep about this. At least not as of this post.

I'm guessing this is in some way indirectly related to the recent F95Zone move from the .com to .to domain. The EU just passed some new copyright laws, so I'm wondering if some other regulatory agency pressure may have prompted this move. But this is just speculation. The 2% increase in service fees no doubt plays into the decision by Subscribestar.

 

[toolkitxx]

My personal main concern is the structure of subscribestar in general. It is in fact a russian business with a US registered LLC (starcling LLC). Mailing address as well as business address reside in Russia which means there is no way for consistent legal security for anything. This will also be an immediate concern for any payment provider in the mid to long term.

 

[Zippity]

You need to be aware of a few things with regards to SubscribeStar.com:

1 - Anyone who signs up as a Developer/Author/etc. (known as a Star on their site) automatically signs over certain rights to SubscribeStar… Here is what their site sais -

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

So technically they can do what they want with it, regardless of their statement that they don't plan to use it for monetary gain... So they could use it for data gathering, advertise their website (which technically is for monetary gain and to their advantage - just look at the last sentence), and other purposes, as they feel they need to... And misuse is a loaded statement, as what is considered misuse differs from one person to another... It's a vague word... They don't specifically state what they will never use it for, or exactly use it for...

2 - Their Allowed Content states the following:

Spoiler

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No where does it state anything about art, drawings, pictures (outside of video files), and all the other things beyond text, that typically is included in most Visual Novels and Games... So technically, most VN/Games in this market would be violating these content rules...

3 - Their Prohibited Material rules state:

Spoiler

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That seems to pretty much prohibit most things you typically find in an Erotic/Adult Visual Novel/Game... So again, this site is fairly strict... And I would not doubt that some VN/Games in this market would violate several of their rules with regards to Prohibited material...

4 - Long standing companies like PayPal and Stripe, and others, have severed ties with this company (by banning their websites from membership), for varying reasons...

5 - The parent LLC company for Subscribestar.com is owned and was registered in Wyoming by someone in Russia (by using LegalZoom.com)... Who initially started the company, and then moved it's mailing address later on from Russia to Wyoming... Just look at the

You must be registered to see the links

on Wyoming's official website...

All that being said, the same company (Starcling, LLC) also operates an Adult version of their normal site... And they include an amendment page, that seems to be more lenient towards the more extreme forms of simulated pornography... But it is only a matter of time, before public pressure and government intervention will force them to become just as strict as other entities like themselves... They are opening themselves to litigation and other public issues by not having restrictions against the more extreme if not outright illegal forms of pornography (simulated or not), regardless of what their initial TOS says... It's only a matter of time... You can see it in how some, much bigger companies, are beginning to distance themselves from these websites and this company...

This feels more like a last ditch effort, as one person (the owner of Starcling, LLC), is attempting to offer a safe haven for those developers being banned from every other available site and/or system... And they believe their TOS terminology and so forth, creates this tight nit umbrella of safety for both itself and it's members... Which is not the case, as no company is completely safe... They are just as vulnerable to public/government scrutiny, local statutes, federal law, international law, treaty law, and so forth, as every other company in the state of Wyoming and the U.S.A. overall... It's already begun, and I'm sure it will continue... The company is not that old, so we'll have to wait and see what happens over the long haul...

Zip

 

[freedom.call]

So from $1000 support the dev gets $861 on Subscribestar.

 

[HiEv]

You need to be aware of a few things with regards to SubscribeStar.com:

1 - Anyone who signs up as a Developer/Author/etc. (known as a Star on their site) automatically signs over certain rights to SubscribeStar… Here is what their site sais -
spoiler
Therefore, by registering as a Star with our Service, User grant us a non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or develop derivative works of the aforementioned content. The purpose of this license is not to misuse this content or monetize it to our own advantage, but to allow us to effectively operate this Service and promote the content on this Platform and elsewhere on non-exclusivity basis, if needed.
/spoiler

So technically they can do what they want with it, regardless of their statement that they don't plan to use it for monetary gain... So they could use it for data gathering, advertise their website (which technically is for monetary gain and to their advantage - just look at the last sentence), and other purposes, as they feel they need to... And misuse is a loaded statement, as what is considered misuse differs from one person to another... It's a vague word... They don't specifically state what they will never use it for, or exactly use it for...

Wow, that's some mighty dishonest editing ending on a lie.

You quote the part where it talks about the "aforementioned content", but you left out what content that refers to.

The paragraph before what you quoted clarifies things and explains what they will use it for:

All content that is posted on this Service belongs to its original owners. To operate with this content on this Service (i.e. store, transmit, broadcast, deliver, distribute, translate) we need a license from a Star (i.e. content owner).

(

You must be registered to see the links

)

In other words, they need the rights to distribute that content through their service! You act like it's something sinister, when it's simply legal boilerplate allowing them to actually show people your content through their site. If you take a look at the main

You must be registered to see the links

page in the "Meet the Stars" section, they are using that part of the Terms of Service to show links to various people who use their service.

It's really dishonest to scare people by removing important context and then you don't even bother to link to the original text so they can easily read it themselves.

Also, you wave around the "Russia" flag like it's the 1950's and everyone should be afraid of "The Red Menace". Sorry, but while some people in Russia do bad things, that doesn't mean that everyone there is up to some sort of sinister shenanigans.

There's "reasonable caution", and then there's "paranoia", and much of your post not only strays into the latter, but tries to back it up by hiding facts and using scare tactics.

If you have evidence that they're actually doing anything wrong, present it. This scaremongering stuff though might as well be straight from FOX News.

 

[Infidelisoft]

Russia is pretty much the safest place in the world to host your website for "iffy adult stuff". You can't say "the goverment and payment processors will take you down anyway" and then "Russia is not to be trusted" when it's one of the more reliable ways to circumvent those very same governments who will take you down.

And there is no "various reasons" for payment processors to pull out of sites hosting adult content, the only reason is that buying or selling adult content using their service is simply not allowed.

 

[toolkitxx]

Russia is pretty much the safest place in the world to host your website for "iffy adult stuff". You can't say "the goverment and payment processors will take you down anyway" and then "Russia is not to be trusted" when it's one of the more reliable ways to circumvent those very same governments who will take you down.

And there is no "various reasons" for payment processors to pull out of sites hosting adult content, the only reason is that buying or selling adult content using their service is simply not allowed.

That would have to be 'past tense' as with current policy in Russia more and more restrictions are enforced. Add active sanctions as well as Vlad's intention to decouple the national internet

 

[Zippity]

Wow, that's some mighty dishonest editing ending on a lie.

You quote the part where it talks about the "aforementioned content", but you left out what content that refers to.

The paragraph before what you quoted clarifies things and explains what they will use it for:

(

You must be registered to see the links

)

In other words, they need the rights to distribute that content through their service! You act like it's something sinister, when it's simply legal boilerplate allowing them to actually show people your content through their site. If you take a look at the main

You must be registered to see the links

page in the "Meet the Stars" section, they are using that part of the Terms of Service to show links to various people who use their service.

It's really dishonest to scare people by removing important context and then you don't even bother to link to the original text so they can easily read it themselves.

Also, you wave around the "Russia" flag like it's the 1950's and everyone should be afraid of "The Red Menace". Sorry, but while some people in Russia do bad things, that doesn't mean that everyone there is up to some sort of sinister shenanigans.

There's "reasonable caution", and then there's "paranoia", and much of your post not only strays into the latter, but tries to back it up by hiding facts and using scare tactics.

If you have evidence that they're actually doing anything wrong, present it. This scaremongering stuff though might as well be straight from FOX News.

I didn't need to quote the part regarding the Content being owned by the Developer (that has to do with how the Non-Exclusive license allows the licensor to give out further copyright licenses to other people as they see fit, which I never talked about)... The point I was trying to get across was how it gives full copyright (IP) license to the website owner, allowing them to use the intellectual property how ever they want, and for what ever reasons they want... In no way shape or form is that a lie... You are taking what I said out of context, and/or reading too much into it... Of course, other sites like this one have similar language, but not necessarily the same language... But, as you see later in TOS, they can do with it what they want "as needed"... That in itself is an open ended statement, which then allows them to use it for any purpose, without notification, as they now have full intellectual property rights, with regards to anything the developer posts on their website to include their projects, as they feel the need to do so... When they claim having the license doesn't mean they will misuse it, what does that mean? What is misusing for one person, is ok use for an other... It's too vague... Too open ended... That was the point of that section of my post...

Plus, even though they claim they will not use it for monetary gain, that is automatically a lie... They are technically gaining money from the developer posting it on their site and taking a percentage of all donations... That in itself is monetary gain... Plus, since they now have intellectual property rights, due to the TOS, they could use developers products/pages to market their website, bringing in more developers, thereby gaining more money... I know what I'm saying is nit picking... But it isn't invalid... They are a business, skimming off the top, therefore they have a monetary gain... If they allowed people to use their site free of charge, then their TOS statement would be 100% accurate with regards to monetary gain...

The whole point I was trying to make in that section, was be aware of their terminology... Their TOS has some very vague statements, plus it is not like a normal contract with all the legal mumbo-jumbo, that has a tendency to be very specific on agreed to rights... I'm just trying to ensure people do their due diligence and pay close attention to what they are agreeing to, as it is proven that most folks don't take the time to read and/or fully understand TOS's and other website mumbo-jumbo prior to signing away their rights to a company, that is rather new, privately owned by a foreign entity, with no large and longstanding public record from which to determine a baseline of trust... I just hope folks are being somewhat cautious, rather then being blindly desperate...

Zip

 

[freedom.call]

Patreon say pretty much the same though:

"By posting creations on Patreon you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your creation."

 

[Zippity]

Patreon say pretty much the same though:

"By posting creations on Patreon you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your creation."

Actually Patreon's goes even further down that slippery slope... But it was not created for the same purpose... The influx of adult/erotic/porn VN/Game developers to their site was an unforeseen quantity... That they did not plan for, but have been playing catch up, with all the new rules and other changes... Hence why sites like Subscribestar, and others like it, are desperately popping into and out of existence... I have similar qualms with Patreon's TOS and so forth... But the difference is, Patreon has been around much longer, is much more well known, used by far more people for way more things outside of this niche industry, thereby is a more publicly recognizable and known company, with an easier to see and long standing knowable reputation... They have their dubious issues as well...

Zip

 

[freedom.call]

But the difference is, Patreon has been around much longer, is much more well known, used by far more people for way more things outside of this niche industry, thereby is a more publicly recognizable and known company, with an easier to see and long standing knowable reputation... They have their dubious issues as well...

Zip

This. Personally I'd be more interested in knowing who runs subscribestar than where it is located et cetera.

Better the devil you know imo, for as long as it's possible. I'm no expert, but I like convenience and predictable...whatever.

 

[toolkitxx]

This. Personally I'd be more interested in knowing who runs subscribestar than where it is located et cetera.

Better the devil you know imo, for as long as it's possible. I'm no expert, but I like convenience and predictable...whatever.

The ignorance of that point by many a dev is what makes it so shady as an 'industry' for many outsiders. Greed and naivety seem to be the dominant feeling when it comes to financing ones work for many. A business that only lists a single person residing in Russia that calls himself just a co-founder on top of it is all you will ever find out. A co-founder would imply there is at least one other entity.
Since it is a US registered LLC and all that is needed is to pay the recurring fee legally everything is done on that end. The registration has been done via an agent without even the need to have any real ties to actual USA. Panama papers was a real eye opener how many and who uses structures like this to not only do legal business but also to launder money and finance (at best) shady organisations with the money earned.
Usually at this point some dev starts the 'anonymity' discussion part which is the same level of BS. If one doesnt have anything to hide using an alias is fine without the need to reside to shady financial instruments. Porn has shown how that works just fine.

 

[PJWhoopie]

So... as of July/Aug 2019, what is the best alternative to Patreon out there?

 

[HiEv]

So... as of July/Aug 2019, what is the best alternative to Patreon out there?

For adult content?

You must be registered to see the links

.

 

[Rastafoo]

SubscribeStar has been stable and reliable for like a year now - so I align with that one <3