Patreon bans - Little guide with examples
- Thread starter SeaRose
- Start date
- Aug 9, 2016
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In my view, Patreon is deliberately vague with some of it's guidelines, and even more so with the enforcement of them.
They -understandably- want to have leeway on what to forbid and what to allow, to avoid en-masse skirting those lines on purpose.
Plus, there's always the gamble of the person that is taking care of any "troublesome" page.
I also believe that whether or not a page was reported plays a part on how they handle it.
Stumbling upon a page potentially violating rules themselves might be easier to come to an agreement with the creator and resolve the issues, while having a page reported by a couple dozen people arguably puts more pressure on them to take drastic measures.
I.e.
That's around ~$150k in the bank every month if we even assume they keep less than half of the processing fees.
But they also need to be able to process those payments, so they need to be in the good books of the processors themselves, which means they need to abide by their directives.
And that's ultimately where all those "banned content" rules come from. So they need to appear like they at least try and uphold their end of the deal, by weeding out wrong-doers to an extent.
They -understandably- want to have leeway on what to forbid and what to allow, to avoid en-masse skirting those lines on purpose.
Plus, there's always the gamble of the person that is taking care of any "troublesome" page.
I also believe that whether or not a page was reported plays a part on how they handle it.
Stumbling upon a page potentially violating rules themselves might be easier to come to an agreement with the creator and resolve the issues, while having a page reported by a couple dozen people arguably puts more pressure on them to take drastic measures.
Patreon does want porn games (or NSFW content in general), they provide a sizeable income.
I.e.
You must be registered to see the links
reports a tally of $1.3m processed each month excluding hidden amounts (which is common among high-earning campaigns), so I could easily see it being ~$3m in total. And that's only for games, there are also other NSFW categories.That's around ~$150k in the bank every month if we even assume they keep less than half of the processing fees.
But they also need to be able to process those payments, so they need to be in the good books of the processors themselves, which means they need to abide by their directives.
And that's ultimately where all those "banned content" rules come from. So they need to appear like they at least try and uphold their end of the deal, by weeding out wrong-doers to an extent.
That's true, the income is high and nobody would say no to that. UNTIL the company becomes big enough and starts to receive pressure.
I think money is the only think that keeps NSFW content hosted. If their revenue was very low, Patreon would have it easier to ban it.
Porn has different ways to be done, and they only protect the softest side of porn.
I already know all this come from the payment processors. If Patreon really want NSFW content in their web, they have to fight it. I don't think they did anything like that. They just obeyed PayPal.
Let's say Patreon wants NSFW content but as soft as possible. If they really wanted porn like mainstream producers do, they should work more in their guidelines, because as vague as they are (and open to many interpretations as I did in my post) devs can get in trouble.
I don't hate Patreon, it's just how I see it. I think they are hypocrites with any NSFW content.
- Aug 9, 2016
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That's why I said the vagueness is intentional. They can maintain a position of being against such content without driving most of the creators away, into other platforms. Doing so might dislodge them from the market-leader spot eventually.
Being rigid and having strict guidelines would disqualify a slew of games that are on there currently.
Having strict guidelines but being flexible could potentially raise eyebrows from their partners on "why is that thing still there", which is all fairness can happen now, but is less of an issue to justify lack of pre-emptive action.
Take for example non-consensual sex. This can involve rape/hypnosis/lust-inducing pill/magical rings/magic powers/coercion/etc. Anything that can be seen as removing or lessening the subject's free will.
Taking a sweeping action against any and all of them could be grounds for removing the majority of games out there.
Spin it quite enough, and almost any game plot involves coercion.
While I do agree that vagueness can be -and is- frustrating, I'm not sold on the idea that it's only detrimental to creators.
I honestly think the patreon bashing sometimes goes a bit too far. There are some things in their rules and guidelines I disagree with, but many of them are understandable. In the end, they are a business and if there is something that threatens their company existence then, of course, they will ban it.
Sometimes people tend to look at the companies like it is a charity and that they have a right for something. The harsh truth- no.
I also believe that many are trying to act like patreon is out to remove all NSFW content in their site but from what I've seen they have only banned the things they said they would ban. Things such as incest, rape, etc.
Not saying Patreon is flawless and without faults- but also think that the bashing sometimes can go a bit too far.
Sometimes people tend to look at the companies like it is a charity and that they have a right for something. The harsh truth- no.
I also believe that many are trying to act like patreon is out to remove all NSFW content in their site but from what I've seen they have only banned the things they said they would ban. Things such as incest, rape, etc.
Not saying Patreon is flawless and without faults- but also think that the bashing sometimes can go a bit too far.
I agree with you in those points.
From my view, I think devs can't trust Patreon. If devs are putting a lot of work in their projects and those guidelines are vague just to keep Patreon leading this sector, and then games can be banned/ changed anytime just twisting the guidelines to Patreon's favor in case anybody is reporting it, devs are risking their projects.
That gives the unfair possibility that some devs are allowed to publish stuff others can't just because of how high is their income. I rather other platforms which they have clearer terms in those regards than a vague interpretation.
Absolutely, Patreon won't change unless it receives more pressure. Their undefined aspects in some contexts , despite of intentional, just give them more power and devs should be very cautious. The effort could be trashed out very quick. Patreon tries to fix it talking with the devs, so they can makes changes that fit their rules, but that ends making every project the same, doing patches to redo what was censored. I can't take that as a good solution.
As a business it works for Patreon, but projects becomes dull.
That's why I made the little guide, so new devs can be aware of some situations in their games. Too much time invested to be wasted by vague terms.
That's for sure.
My worries are more about how specific must be your game and how they pretend to limit your creation.
I don't see games now like years ago. Now everything looks soft and wrapped for audience that can get offended quick (like youtube). Well, probably less than youtube due their adult content, but the tendency is there.
I mean, yeah. They can do whatever they want, no doubt. I just dislike (as many) how everything changed to be more politically correct due the payment processor.
- Aug 9, 2016
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I quite agree with that, but herein lies a problem which is Patreon's biggest asset -both for itself and creators themselves-. It's user base.
People have been accustomed to it, even more so due to the fact that it was (and still is) the de facto platform when many of them were introduced in the NSFW games world. It adds that much to it's legitimacy so people have rarely second thoughts of providing CC/Paypal info.
Other platforms exist, but so far they either fizzled out or have failed to get enough traction.
Take SubscribeStar for example. It's guidelines are much more relaxed and many creators retain a page on there as well -oftentimes with exclusive games- but the majority of their supporters still prefer Patreon.
Fanbox exists, and their policy is pretty much no-holes-barred. Still, people will be reluctant to use it.
Out of habit? Because they prefer a single platform for all the creators? Out of trust? Quite likely all of the above to some degree.
I do hope the other platform start garnering a bit of attention and support since we really need to start putting eggs in more than one basket, but I cannot see it happening overnight.
Patreon is still the best choice for creators to gain support en masse, with all it's shortcomings.
I haven't heard of a single game banned on Patreon because of this.
I think about 70% of games on f95zone contain such elements.
Voyeurism is, technically speaking, non-consensual, but Patreon is not focusing on fight against it.
However, this does not mean that one day it cannot change.
I think they are more focused on fight against content where there is some non-consensual physical sexual contact.
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That's the point.
I can't think of a game that has been banned by following the examples I set (there are too many games to follow), but in the guidelines you can see that Patreon could make that decision whenever a problem arises.
Voyeurism is one of the main points of attraction, not only for games, but for the entire porn industry. To what degree does Patreon accept voyeurism in their games, knowing that is not consensual?
Taking the many games that has been hosted here, Patreon don't chase that kind of content. But, as you say, this can change, and Patreon already defined in their guidelines they do not allow non-consensual NSFW content, so they're really been "legal" in their own terms, and devs wouldn't be able to complain.
In a nutshell, I don't think devs are protected enough. Whenever Patreon decides that (for example) voyeurism shouldn't be allowed (for whatever reason) many devs will have to make changes in their games to fit the new directives. That can bring down many projects, as well as their income (devs need to eat! hahaha).
I know I've followed the guidelines harshly, but I just wanted to clarify how the Patreon guidelines can be interpreted and how it's not as safe for developers as it might seem.
Part of patreon guidelines: "However, we have zero tolerance when it comes to the glorification of sexual violence which includes bestiality, rape, and child exploitation (i.e., sexualized depiction of minors). This is true for illustrated, animated, or any other type of creations. Patreon reserves the right to review and remove accounts that may violate this guideline.
We also do not allow other fringe sexual fetish creations, such as incest, necrophilia, or fetish creations that is hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex."
I think voyeurism will remain safe because it can hardly be interpreted as sexual violence or non-consensual sex. But as I said, this may change in the future.
- Apr 8, 2018
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I don't understand how it works. They say it's forbidden, but when you try to point them out for violating their rules, they ignore these emails.
There is such a game: "The Company"
It has bestiality and incest and other harsh types of manifestations that were described here. But Patreon doesn't care. Even if you try to complain about this game, they will ignore it.
I don't know why, but apparently their bans are indicative, and they aren't really interested in blocking most games. This way they will block 1-2 games, leaving all the others as an act of intimidation, and as a target for reporting to management.
There is another game: "perverted education", in this game there is no direct mention that your character is an adult. Only on the Patreon page, in the game itself, your age is not defined, and it is obvious that as a schoolboy, the character is less than 18 years old.
And of course there's incest, and other hard things, and again Patron doesn't care about it.
There is such a game: "The Company"
It has bestiality and incest and other harsh types of manifestations that were described here. But Patreon doesn't care. Even if you try to complain about this game, they will ignore it.
I don't know why, but apparently their bans are indicative, and they aren't really interested in blocking most games. This way they will block 1-2 games, leaving all the others as an act of intimidation, and as a target for reporting to management.
There is another game: "perverted education", in this game there is no direct mention that your character is an adult. Only on the Patreon page, in the game itself, your age is not defined, and it is obvious that as a schoolboy, the character is less than 18 years old.
And of course there's incest, and other hard things, and again Patron doesn't care about it.
- Aug 9, 2016
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Might I ask why one would go out of his way to try and report projects to Patreon for violating their rules? To prove a point or something?
- Apr 8, 2018
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Probably because they are not satisfied with something? I've seen a couple of angry comments in the discussion threads of these games about how this content offends them, and that complaints sent to Patreon don't help.
You can see that games with sissification content and other gay stuff are not very welcome on this site, to put it mildly.
The Company also has bestiality, have you seen many games offering such content on this site?
- Aug 9, 2016
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So instead of just going their merry way and decide to not consume content they find distasteful, they instead decide to fuck up a creator?
In what world being offended by something arbitrary you can easily avoid makes it a legit reason?
- Apr 8, 2018
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Don't you know there are people who like to see others suffer?
I mean, if everyone was so reasonable.
They didn't like the content, and maybe they wanted to hit the audience rather than the Creator. I don't know, everyone has different reasons.
My complaint with patron is that I don't like their vague position. They have clear rules that they don't follow, and you never know when to expect a hit from them. Thus, you have to constantly experience stress, because you can be thrown out at any second for violating the rules, just because out of hundreds of similar games, the card fell on you, and you will be significantly killed. You will just become another dot in the report for management.
- Jul 10, 2017
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Tbh, I think dislike towards a creator is what get people report them for whatever reason rather than actual content. People not getting what they want, when they want it.. Oh creator just milking it, creator is x, y and z... Where most people will just walk away from something they don't like or want to support. There is those that will go that extra stretch to create waves. The thing about that though, the more waves the more ripples and soon you could see things you do support and like get affected as well.