Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread

HiEv

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Sep 1, 2017
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Maybe this new surge of revolt will finally initiate rise of some viable alternatives. I think that using of bitcoin is not so complicated and soon it will be a norm in payment just as now is Paypal. Bitbacker looks interesting.
Until there is some form of regulations for bitcoin, such as there are for standard currencies and stocks (both of which are analogous and are regulated to prevent dishonest/deceitful practices which have occurred in the past), then using them involves a risk you don't find with standard payment methods.

For example, in the stock market, some people used to buy a bunch of stocks cheap, then promote the heck out of those stocks, recommending that other people buy them. This causes the value of the stock to shoot up, which causes more people to buy, which causes it to go up more. Then that same person would sell out all their stock high, causing the stock to drop, leading to the stock plummeting back down to where it should be. However, in the process anyone who didn't get out fast enough would be screwed over. This is known as " ", and is totally illegal now in stocks, but there's little stopping you from doing that within the bitcoin market, where you "pump and dump" a certain type of bitcoin.

I agree with your first point that this gap in the market will breed competitors willing to fill that gap, we're already seeing that a bit, but so far (IMHO) it looks like bitcoin stuff is going to remain a bit of a niche market as long as it remains unregulated.
 
Dec 17, 2017
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I don't know what are you talking about. The purpose of bitcoin is to NOT be regulated and to remain free. Not to allow breaking of law, but to allow free speech and expression of opinion and so "Patreons" and "Paypals" cannot enforce their made up rules on people. When it becomes regulated it will be as any other currency.
 
Dec 17, 2017
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And also, when you are talking about niche market, I am sorry I need to reveal to you if you didn't notice... this site is dealing with niche type of visual novels/games ... it is not Steam... :)
 

gamersglory

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“Real life” Pornography is hard to allow because of the recordkeeping requirements the US government has put on them adds way to much expense and yes even if the site is outside the US if it can be seen in the US you still have to comply
 

HiEv

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Sep 1, 2017
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I don't know what are you talking about.
What part was confusing?

The purpose of bitcoin is to NOT be regulated and to remain free. Not to allow breaking of law, but to allow free speech and expression of opinion and so "Patreons" and "Paypals" cannot enforce their made up rules on people.
You're quoting the promise of bitcoin, while totally ignoring the deficits of bitcoin, such as the one I laid out earlier. Other people won't ignore those problems, and so will stay away from bitcoin.

You need to realize that there are two sides to this... er... bitcoin, not merely the one side you like. ;)

When it becomes regulated it will be as any other currency.
No, it wouldn't, because it's far more volatile than most other currencies. It's closer to owning a stock than a currency. Which is yet another downside to it.

And also, when you are talking about niche market, I am sorry I need to reveal to you if you didn't notice... this site is dealing with niche type of visual novels/games ... it is not Steam... :)
Yeah, but that just makes it worse. Since now you're relying on one niche market to support another niche market.

Just to pull a number out of the air for purposes of example, if 1% of all people are into these kinds of games and willing to pay for them, and only 5% of all people in the US use bitcoin ( ), then on average only 0.05% of people will be in the overlap of that Venn diagram.

That's not a good business model to depend on.
 
Dec 17, 2017
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I am saying that if we are niche and want to have our freedom of expression (why incest can be in TV shows and not computer games?), we maybe need to be a little more flexible and adopt niche payment methods, if you want to call them that, but I don't think so.
 

carnalcardinal

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I am saying that if we are niche and want to have our freedom of expression (why incest can be in TV shows and not computer games?), we maybe need to be a little more flexible and adopt niche payment methods, if you want to call them that, but I don't think so.
Or just make the profit from incest games outweigh potential backlash from people dropping Patreon because of their choice to support it. Patreon isn't going to potentially lose money so they can make $5-10 off some unknown Dev making an incest game.

Look at the major porn companies with tons of incest content, it's clear that the banks and credit cards don't take the 'moral high ground' there.
 

HiEv

Active Member
Sep 1, 2017
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Look at the major porn companies with tons of incest content, it's clear that the banks and credit cards don't take the 'moral high ground' there.
That's because they almost certainly use high-risk merchant accounts, which are tailored for those kinds of businesses, rather than standard banks and credit cards.
 
Jan 10, 2018
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It's not like Patreon suddenly decided to ban certain adult topics and change their TOS just because they could. They have to defer to what guidelines Visa and Mastercard set for them. All the banned adult content is due to payment processors, not Patreon themselves. Patreon can't do anything about that besides bending the knee.
Not so correct, Sekai Project is VERY tied to KOEI TECMO and Frontwing, and is now working on the english porting of few novels/games, the whole grisaia was based on a huge mega original incest, and Kickstarter, where they raised something like a million, was fine with it as is fine now with other 4 games that are raising money now also with incest, and not from sekai, so i don't see why Visa and Mastercard would force patreon on banish incest but will allow it on kickstarter......

Conclusion: if you are right, Visa and Mastercard, decided to banish incest for small devs who can't fight back, as if they tried it with brands like sekai (KT), or another (chinese) that can be linked to SEC ( read Square Enix Collective ) or another linked to Nippon Animation or another linked to Studio Ghibli they would have their faces smashed, or you are wrong than is Patreon fault.

I'm pretty sure that if Illusion would drop on patreon for an incest game no one would even think to try to stop them.

But i think i talked too much for today.
 

TowerCrow

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Nov 22, 2018
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Not so correct, Sekai Project is VERY tied to KOEI TECMO and Frontwing, and is now working on the english porting of few novels/games, the whole grisaia was based on a huge mega original incest, and Kickstarter, where they raised something like a million, was fine with it as is fine now with other 4 games that are raising money now also with incest, and not from sekai, so i don't see why Visa and Mastercard would force patreon on banish incest but will allow it on kickstarter......
I've no clue how adult projects are even existing on Kickstarter since they technically ban pornography in their TOS. But still, Kickstarter has nothing to do with Patreon's situation.

Payment processors have been censoring adult content for decades. There are many articles out there on the topic.





Last one is an article from 2012 with this quote:

PayPal told Smashwords to modify is policy for erotic fiction to exclude works that contain bestiality, rape-for-titillation, incest and underage erotica, and to remove any works that contravene the new policy.
Seems familiar, doesn't it? And it's from a time before Patreon even existed. Patreon people never had a say in this. They have to answer to payment processor demands or lose the ability to process patron payments.
 
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TowerCrow

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Nov 22, 2018
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I'm now watching a webinar by Patreon called "Getting Started on Patreon for 18+ Content Creators". The trust and safety team's leader states clearly that all adult content guidelines are in place due to payment processors. Can't be any clearer and that. People have to stop blaming Patreon for everything when it's not in their control. In fact, you should be happy that there's a crowdsourcing platform that allows adult content and only takes 5% of revenue.

All high-risk payment processors that accept adult content take at least 20-30%.
 
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HiEv

Active Member
Sep 1, 2017
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I'm now watching a webinar by Patreon called "Getting Started on Patreon for 18+ Content Creators". The trust and safety team's leader states clearly that all adult content guidelines are in place due to payment processors. Can't be any clearer and that. People have to stop blaming Patreon for everything when it's not in their control. In fact, you should be happy that there's a crowdsourcing platform that allows adult content and only takes 5% of revenue.
Agreed.

I tried Googling for that video, but couldn't find it. Do you have a public link to it?
 

TowerCrow

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Nov 22, 2018
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I'm not sure if it's public, I signed up for it a couple of days ago on

Here's a direct link:
 
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gamersglory

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So a better way to no fees is our site We are 100% fee free and are now doing a soft beta. we utilize the Nano Crypto which can be traded for any word currency without fees to creators.
 

Ark Thompson

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6. Your contribution are not obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, violent, harassing, libelous, slanderous or otherwise objectable (as determined by us).

For something called "Adult Pledge" that's quite the restriction list. Is it a condition to protect yourself? How can devs know where you really draw the line then?
 

gamersglory

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Aug 23, 2017
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6. Your contribution are not obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, violent, harassing, libelous, slanderous or otherwise objectable (as determined by us).

For something called "Adult Pledge" that's quite the restriction list. Is it a condition to protect yourself? How can devs know where you really draw the line then?
As it says as determined by us. We allow any content using 3DCG and animation as under US law nither of those are obscene or lewd the only thing we ask is all characters are 18 years of age or over ;) and that all works are purely fiction. We can't allow real porn with real people yet as US requirements for that are quite a bit larger but we will be looking to add that long term.