Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread

[HiEv]

Hyperbole is lost on you.

It actually comes from interacting with too many people who would say that not as hyperbole, but mean it literally.

But when they kicked FOW

I don't recognize who you're referring to by that abbreviation. I might know them by the full name, but not well enough to recognize it abbreviated like that.

I knew this was some PC bullshit.

"Puritanical" and "PC" are rather opposite ends of the "reasons to reject something" spectrum. If you're being "puritanical" you're rejecting things for bigoted religious reasons. If you're being "PC" then you're rejecting things because you see them as bigoted and/or harming particular groups of people.

Adult Content makes up nearly a quarter of patreons income. However they won’t kick off the camwhores and e-girls because that’s “sexist”.

I'm curious as to your definition of a "camwhores" or "e-girls", since some of the people whom I've seen described as that were merely attractive women who happened to have large breasts, but were otherwise doing the exact same things men on the platform did. An example or two would help.

I am not calling for them to be removed but I want consistency instead of the “bigotry” this platform is pushing.

I can't respond to this until I know what examples you're comparing this to, but I'd hazard a guess that they aren't the same thing.

But obviously they won’t do that because it’s “disrespecting wamen” and against their narrative.

You make yourself rather hard to take seriously when you say things like that.

“One or two”? Do you even know how many patreon competitors have been run out of buisiness because they didn’t follow patreons ideological slant?

Apparently not. Care to actually clue me in, rather than merely insulting me?

This is a forced monopoly thanks to paypal and stripes collusion.

That's nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this point, nowhere near a fact.

If you have verifiable evidence of collusion, not merely facts which you're assuming are connected, I'd love to hear it.

Have a nice day!

 

[User_17502]

To be clear, I don't like a lot of Patreon's decisions in this vein. But I'm telling you now, agitating for 'consistency', especially according to some weird moral-agnostic conception of 'consistency' will never, ever achieve anything except getting more people banned. It will never get fewer people banned or anybody unbanned. This 'demanding consistency' is functionally just a call for more bans.

And maybe you'll say you care more about consistency than about bans. Fair enough, but I couldn't disagree more.

See but if they were consistent then I could just say they were assholes but that's how they want to police their platform then I can accept it. But since they not consistent with their actions then I have to consider there is intent behind their actions.

It actually comes from interacting with too many people who would say that not as hyperbole, but mean it literally.


I don't recognize who you're referring to by that abbreviation. I might know them by the full name, but not well enough to recognize it abbreviated like that.


"Puritanical" and "PC" are rather opposite ends of the "reasons to reject something" spectrum. If you're being "puritanical" you're rejecting things for bigoted religious reasons. If you're being "PC" then you're rejecting things because you see them as bigoted and/or harming particular groups of people.


I'm curious as to your definition of a "camwhores" or "e-girls", since some of the people whom I've seen described as that were merely attractive women who happened to have large breasts, but were otherwise doing the exact same things men on the platform did. An example or two would help.


I can't respond to this until I know what examples you're comparing this to, but I'd hazard a guess that they aren't the same thing.




You make yourself rather hard to take seriously when you say things like that.


Apparently not. Care to actually clue me in, rather than merely insulting me?


That's nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this point, nowhere near a fact.

If you have verifiable evidence of collusion, not merely facts which you're assuming are connected, I'd love to hear it.

Have a nice day!

Ah yes. This was hyperbole on purpose. Not accidentally hyperbole and exaggeration that some people are perchance to abuse.

Studio F.O.W. is a giant within the adult animation sphere on the internet. They have some incredible animations involving horses More information

You must be registered to see the links

.

I am not arguing their reasoning. I am arguing their actions are similar with respect to how they made a "purge" of creators on their site.

This was aimed specifically at people who hide pornographic content behind a paywall on patreon. Female streamers such as Amouranth and Clarababylegs are high profile examples of this.

This is not to throw them under the bus as I believe they should have the right to produce whatever content they want. However I find it disturbing that they can produce the same "adult oriented content" and not have any problems. but on the other hand,
Patreon has a history of screwing with the adult game creators. Just look at the way they handled banning incest (which was never included in their terms of service as a violation) and shutting down patreons that had incest in their games. (Fucking Summertime Saga is an incest game.)

If you don't understand this line about "wamen" then you don't understand the ecosystem of a major part of the internet.

Businesses have a right to choose which content they provide, as long as they don't base who they get it from or give it to purely upon bigotry. That said, the market should be fully capable of picking up the slack that other companies want to give them by dumping certain customers, though it may take a little while for those other businesses to carve out that niche for themselves. In the mean time, unfortunately, some innocents may get hung out to dry, and that sucks.

You asserted that this should be acceptable due to economic market forces without knowledge that the actions of these companies are detrimental to a free and open market. This is not natural capitalism at work. Your ignorance of these matters is not a fault but your assertion that "the market should be fully capable of picking up the slack" is questionable given this statement about the digital marketplace.

That's nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this point, nowhere near a fact.

Bitchute-Competitor to Youtube. Refused services by patreon, and both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe
Gab-Competitor to Twitter. Refused services by patreon, and both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe.
Subscribestar- Competitor to Patreon. Refused services by both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe.
Makersupport- Competitor to Patreon. Refused services by both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe.
Hatreon- Competitor to Patreon. Refused services by both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe. Instigated by VISA

Any competitor to established tech companies are being discriminated against by both payment processors.
Though I do not have the legal documents required to prove this in court, the actions of the companies speak enough for the public to view this as collusion.

Please reconsider your stance given this new information provided.

 

[icegoalie35]

Tip: Don't waste your time responding to HiEv.
"conspiracy theory"
"If you have verifiable evidence of collusion, not merely facts which you're assuming are connected, I'd love to hear it."
"You make yourself rather hard to take seriously when you say things like that."

I'm surprised he hasn't started accusing people of being russians.

 

[User_17502]

Tip: Don't waste your time responding to HiEv.
"conspiracy theory"
"If you have verifiable evidence of collusion, not merely facts which you're assuming are connected, I'd love to hear it."
"You make yourself rather hard to take seriously when you say things like that."

I'm surprised he hasn't started accusing people of being russians.

I don’t know him so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes people are fed so much bullshit they think it’s the truth. I know I was like that once.

 

[HiEv]

Tip: Don't waste your time responding to HiEv.

So, this is how you introduce yourself to the forum? By insulting people and being against open discussion of opposing viewpoints?

Oooo-kaaaayy..... Not a promising start.

"conspiracy theory"

Not surprising that you took out all of the context around that.

Referring to a supposed "collusion" between Patreon and PayPal + Stripe, I said:

That's nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this point, nowhere near a fact.

Yes. A conspiracy theory. Something which even some people who want that to be true admit that this "theory" is:

See for example 7:54, 8:15, 14:44, etc...

This is literally a theory that companies are conspiring together, without any actual evidence that this is true. If you know of a better phrase for that than "conspiracy theory", I'd love to hear it.

Note that I'm not claiming that it isn't or can't be true, I'm just saying that there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude that it is true at this point, thus we shouldn't act as though it's true.

There's nothing irrational about that stance.

"If you have verifiable evidence of collusion, not merely facts which you're assuming are connected, I'd love to hear it."

Ah yes. Asking for clear evidence, as opposed to merely correlations followed by jumping to conclusions. How irrational of me.

FYI,

You must be registered to see the links

.

"You make yourself rather hard to take seriously when you say things like that."

And again, that was in the context of responding to Heartlessnobody95 saying:

But obviously they won’t do that because it’s “disrespecting wamen” and against their narrative.

This is utterly absurd nonsense, suggesting that they don't remove women, not because they haven't actually done anything wrong, but because they don't want to look like misogynists.

I'm sorry, but sending nudes to patrons is totally allowed under their terms of service. On the other hand, hate speech is a violation of their terms of services.

Pretending the two are equivalent alone is absurd, pretending they "let the women get away with it" due to feared backlash or whatever just raises this to lunacy.

Hence my inability to take anyone seriously who thinks that this is even remotely a viable argument.

I'm surprised he hasn't started accusing people of being russians.

What?!? LOL. No. That would be the opposite of what I'm doing here. Aren't you paying attention?

Wild claims made without evidence are the problem I'm pointing out. Why on Earth do you think I would then commit that error myself?

(shakes head)

So, do you have any actual arguments, or are you merely here to baselessly insult me?

--

Ah yes. This was hyperbole on purpose. Not accidentally hyperbole and exaggeration that some people are perchance to abuse.

I wasn't referring to "accidental hyperbole", I was referring to the idiots that think that witches are real and deserved to be hung in Salem.

If you haven't encountered that particular brand of lunacy, consider yourself lucky.

Studio F.O.W. is a giant within the adult animation sphere on the internet. They have some incredible animations involving horses More information

You must be registered to see the links

.

They were also apparently asked repeatedly to take certain material off of their Patreon page by Patreon, which they would do, and then put back up a few days later. They apparently also got a "cease and desist" letter from Blizzard regarding their "Coliseum of Lust" video. In their FAQ on getting booted from Patreon they say, twice, "we saw this coming from a million miles away".

One thing their FAQ does not say is exactly what they got booted for, which, based on the above, could have been for a couple of reasons.

It's really hard to determine anything without more information, but it sounds like they knew that they were doing something which violated Patreon's terms.

This was aimed specifically at people who hide pornographic content behind a paywall on patreon. Female streamers such as Amouranth and Clarababylegs are high profile examples of this.

As I mentioned above, there's nothing against Patreon's terms of service for that.

And since StudioFOW hasn't said why they were booted from Patreon, you can't just assume hypocrisy. It's possible that they got booted for their repeated postings of sexually suggestive content on Patreon's site or for possible copyright violations. We don't know, thus it's all mere speculation at this point.

If you don't understand this line about "wamen" then you don't understand the ecosystem of a major part of the internet.

I understand it, but your whole argument there just undermines your credibility, as I explained above.

You asserted that this should be acceptable due to economic market forces

No, I didn't. I asserted that this should be acceptable because companies have a right to control their own content.

I also noted that, if there's a market for the content that gets booted off one platform, inevitably someone else will take advantage of the profit that Patreon gave up on.

You accused me of ignorance, but that was based upon a straw man of my actual point.

Bitchute-Competitor to Youtube. Refused services by patreon, and both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe

Actually, BitChute had been using PayPal up until recently, but PayPal terminated them for violations of their policy. (

You must be registered to see the links

) Unfortunately no details on what was specifically violated though.

Similarly, they had been working with Stripe, but Stripe apparently said that the reason that they had to drop BitChute "is a restriction imposed upon us directly from our financial partners" (

You must be registered to see the links

). This suggests (to me, at least) that the banking and credit card groups are the ones applying the pressure here.

As for Patreon, they were refused services for providing a platform to people Patreon had banned. (

You must be registered to see the links

&

You must be registered to see the links

) They didn't want to indirectly support the same people they'd already refused to support.

So, it looks like it's a variety of reasons.

Gab-Competitor to Twitter. Refused services by patreon, and both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe.

Let's not expand this beyond competitors to Patreon.

Subscribestar- Competitor to Patreon. Refused services by both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe.

This is the only one where there might be a case, but there just isn't enough information to say yet.

Makersupport- Competitor to Patreon. Refused services by both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe.

MakerSupport supported alt-right and

You must be registered to see the links

, including

You must be registered to see the links

. It doesn't take a conspiracy to figure out why they got canned.

Hatreon- Competitor to Patreon. Refused services by both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe. Instigated by VISA

...and supported hate groups and hate speech too. Seriously, it's right in their name.

You don't need a conspiracy to figure out where Hatreon went wrong.

Also, the fact that most payment processors have similar policies, means that if one refuses service, then others are likely to as well because that means they violated their policies as well. This isn't "collusion" it's simply similar outcomes due to similar policies.

Any competitor to established tech companies are being discriminated against by both payment processors.

You seem to want to extrapolate from "some" to "any". That's a bit of a stretch there.

One only need see that there are major competitors out there in the crowdfunding arena, like

You must be registered to see the links

,

You must be registered to see the links

, and

You must be registered to see the links

, to see that that's not the case.

Though I do not have the legal documents required to prove this in court, the actions of the companies speak enough for the public to view this as collusion.

Yeah, well, some of "the public" view 9/11 as an "inside job", so that doesn't mean much. Just because you think you see something, doesn't mean that it's really there.

This is why I only accept clear verifiable evidence, not wild speculation based on correlations that may mean something else entirely and can be explained much more mundanely.

Please reconsider your stance given this new information provided.

What new "information"? That's not information, that's just speculation regarding collusion based upon an illusory correlation.

Provide me with some actual information and I'll gladly reconsider my stance, but this looks more like a guy stringing yarn across pushpins to support his crazy conspiracy theory than anything resembling actual information.

 

[TowerCrow]

I don’t give a fuck why they removed Sargon of Akkad.
But when they kicked FOW I knew this was some PC bullshit. Adult Content makes up nearly a quarter of patreons income. However they won’t kick off the camwhores and e-girls because that’s “sexist”.

Yea, no. Studio FOW had a lot of chances to fix their shit. And they even did a couple of times. The simply continued to taunt Patreon right in their faces by posting content against TOS the very next day after being reinstated. It's not bullshit, it's just being arrogant and stupid hence the consequences.

 

[User_17502]

So, this is how you introduce yourself to the forum? By insulting people and being against open discussion of opposing viewpoints?

Oooo-kaaaayy..... Not a promising start.


Not surprising that you took out all of the context around that.

Referring to a supposed "collusion" between Patreon and PayPal + Stripe, I said:

Yes. A conspiracy theory. Something which even some people who want that to be true admit that this "theory" is:

See for example 7:54, 8:15, 14:44, etc...

This is literally a theory that companies are conspiring together, without any actual evidence that this is true. If you know of a better phrase for that than "conspiracy theory", I'd love to hear it.

Note that I'm not claiming that it isn't or can't be true, I'm just saying that there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude that it is true at this point, thus we shouldn't act as though it's true.

There's nothing irrational about that stance.


Ah yes. Asking for clear evidence, as opposed to merely correlations followed by jumping to conclusions. How irrational of me.

FYI,

You must be registered to see the links

.


And again, that was in the context of responding to Heartlessnobody95 saying:

This is utterly absurd nonsense, suggesting that they don't remove women, not because they haven't actually done anything wrong, but because they don't want to look like misogynists.

I'm sorry, but sending nudes to patrons is totally allowed under their terms of service. On the other hand, hate speech is a violation of their terms of services.

Pretending the two are equivalent alone is absurd, pretending they "let the women get away with it" due to feared backlash or whatever just raises this to lunacy.

Hence my inability to take anyone seriously who thinks that this is even remotely a viable argument.


What?!? LOL. No. That would be the opposite of what I'm doing here. Aren't you paying attention?

Wild claims made without evidence are the problem I'm pointing out. Why on Earth do you think I would then commit that error myself?

(shakes head)

So, do you have any actual arguments, or are you merely here to baselessly insult me?

--


I wasn't referring to "accidental hyperbole", I was referring to the idiots that think that witches are real and deserved to be hung in Salem.

If you haven't encountered that particular brand of lunacy, consider yourself lucky.


They were also apparently asked repeatedly to take certain material off of their Patreon page by Patreon, which they would do, and then put back up a few days later. They apparently also got a "cease and desist" letter from Blizzard regarding their "Coliseum of Lust" video. In their FAQ on getting booted from Patreon they say, twice, "we saw this coming from a million miles away".

One thing their FAQ does not say is exactly what they got booted for, which, based on the above, could have been for a couple of reasons.

It's really hard to determine anything without more information, but it sounds like they knew that they were doing something which violated Patreon's terms.


As I mentioned above, there's nothing against Patreon's terms of service for that.

And since StudioFOW hasn't said why they were booted from Patreon, you can't just assume hypocrisy. It's possible that they got booted for their repeated postings of sexually suggestive content on Patreon's site or for possible copyright violations. We don't know, thus it's all mere speculation at this point.


I understand it, but your whole argument there just undermines your credibility, as I explained above.


No, I didn't. I asserted that this should be acceptable because companies have a right to control their own content.

I also noted that, if there's a market for the content that gets booted off one platform, inevitably someone else will take advantage of the profit that Patreon gave up on.

You accused me of ignorance, but that was based upon a straw man of my actual point.


Actually, BitChute had been using PayPal up until recently, but PayPal terminated them for violations of their policy. (

You must be registered to see the links

) Unfortunately no details on what was specifically violated though.

Similarly, they had been working with Stripe, but Stripe apparently said that the reason that they had to drop BitChute "is a restriction imposed upon us directly from our financial partners" (

You must be registered to see the links

). This suggests (to me, at least) that the banking and credit card groups are the ones applying the pressure here.

As for Patreon, they were refused services for providing a platform to people Patreon had banned. (

You must be registered to see the links

&

You must be registered to see the links

) They didn't want to indirectly support the same people they'd already refused to support.

So, it looks like it's a variety of reasons.


Let's not expand this beyond competitors to Patreon.


This is the only one where there might be a case, but there just isn't enough information to say yet.


MakerSupport supported alt-right and

You must be registered to see the links

, including

You must be registered to see the links

. It doesn't take a conspiracy to figure out why they got canned.


...and supported hate groups and hate speech too. Seriously, it's right in their name.

You don't need a conspiracy to figure out where Hatreon went wrong.

Also, the fact that most payment processors have similar policies, means that if one refuses service, then others are likely to as well because that means they violated their policies as well. This isn't "collusion" it's simply similar outcomes due to similar policies.


You seem to want to extrapolate from "some" to "any". That's a bit of a stretch there.

One only need see that there are major competitors out there in the crowdfunding arena, like

You must be registered to see the links

,

You must be registered to see the links

, and

You must be registered to see the links

, to see that that's not the case.


Yeah, well, some of "the public" view 9/11 as an "inside job", so that doesn't mean much. Just because you think you see something, doesn't mean that it's really there.

This is why I only accept clear verifiable evidence, not wild speculation based on correlations that may mean something else entirely and can be explained much more mundanely.


What new "information"? That's not information, that's just speculation regarding collusion based upon an illusory correlation.

Provide me with some actual information and I'll gladly reconsider my stance, but this looks more like a guy stringing yarn across pushpins to support his crazy conspiracy theory than anything resembling actual information.

After this response it has become clear to me that we will not be agreeing to anything due to your indefensible justifications. So I will end this conversation with this.

1. Hate Speech is still Free Speech protected under the First Amendment within the United States.

2. In Patreons TOS they specifically stated that these rules only applied to Patreon hosted content. F.O.W. initially posted their “offensive” content (animated rape) on Patreon until it was requested to be removed. Then F.O.W. moved that content onto their own website where Patreon did not have purview. However the problem is that nowhere in Patreons guidelines was it made clear what can and cannot be presented on their site with regards to animated content. These were “clarified” recently and used to retroactively justify bans.

3. “Real life” Pornography is explicitly against the Patreon TOS and has been so before the changes.

4.Your justification for disregarding everything I asserted was based on the stance that “correlation is not causation.” But I had already stated that “causation” cannot be proven legally as we do not have the information needed. Yes it is a “theory” but life is built on such “theories” as it is impossible to prove a negative. Please PROVE the “theory of gravity” before you insist that theorizing is in any way untenable.

@HiEv, Please continue believing that the sun orbits the earth. That’s all that you could see. Please don’t mind the conspiracy theory that is the “solar system.” And go ahead and hang that Galileo guy. He’s just a “conspiracy theorist.”

 

[User_17502]

Yea, no. Studio FOW had a lot of chances to fix their shit. And they even did a couple of times. The simply continued to taunt Patreon right in their faces by posting content against TOS the very next day after being reinstated. It's not bullshit, it's just being arrogant and stupid hence the consequences.

F.O.W. didn’t change their content.
Patreon changed their TOS.

Please take into account that in 2016 adult creators pulled in more revenue than any other sector for Patreon.

Patreon doesn’t pay creators.
Our fans do.
Patreon takes money from us.
So good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[TowerCrow]

It's not like Patreon suddenly decided to ban certain adult topics and change their TOS just because they could. They have to defer to what guidelines Visa and Mastercard set for them. All the banned adult content is due to payment processors, not Patreon themselves. Patreon can't do anything about that besides bending the knee.

 

[HiEv]

After this response it has become clear to me that we will not be agreeing to anything due to your indefensible justifications.

I don't think you understand what an "indefensible justification" is. Accusing people of things without sufficient evidence is an "indefensible justification" for disliking/distrusting/whatever-ing them. On the other hand, merely not accepting claims which don't have supporting evidence, is an entirely defensible justification for not believing those claims.

1. Hate Speech is still Free Speech protected under the First Amendment within the United States.

That's utterly irrelevant here, since their free speech rights haven't been abridged.

The First Amendment doesn't give you the right to force others to broadcast your speech, nor does it make you immune to the consequences of your speech.

2. In Patreons TOS they specifically stated that these rules only applied to Patreon hosted content.

Not really, no. They have some rather vague wording which could be interpreted that way, or not. It comes down to whether you assume that the first sentence limits the range of application of the second sentence or not:

You are responsible for all the activity on your account. If you do bad things we may terminate your account.

But that's ultimately irrelevant, since

You must be registered to see the links

also state:

We can terminate or suspend your account at any time at our discretion. We can also cancel any pledges and remove any content or rewards at our discretion.

Basically, by using them you agree that they can terminate you at any time for any reason.

3. “Real life” Pornography is explicitly against the Patreon TOS and has been so before the changes.

But you left out or are unaware that they define "pornographic material" as "real people engaging in sexual acts such as masturbation or sexual intercourse on camera. " (

You must be registered to see the links

) As such, merely posing nude is NOT against their TOS, as you so vehemently claim.

So, no hypocrisy. No favoritism for women. No grand conspiracy. Just you not understanding the Terms of Use.

4.Your justification for disregarding everything I asserted was based on the stance that “correlation is not causation.” But I had already stated that “causation” cannot be proven legally as we do not have the information needed.

Which is my point. If you want to go off half-cocked because you see correlations and want to assume causation, I can't stop you. However, I am totally justified in pointing out, as even you agree, that you don't have sufficient evidence to jump to that conclusion.

Yes it is a “theory” but life is built on such “theories” as it is impossible to prove a negative.

Actually, it is possible to prove a negative in certain situations, such as proving that there are no cookies in the cookie jar by looking.

Regardless, even if you were right, that doesn't justify believing whatever you want merely because we couldn't prove you wrong. In fact, quite the opposite. Otherwise one could "justify" believing in anything that couldn't be disproved.

This is why we have what's called the "

You must be registered to see the links

". If you're going to claim that a thing is true, then the burden is upon you to demonstrate it's likelihood using objective evidence, not upon everyone else to prove you wrong.

You have yet to meet the burden of proof for your claim, which is why I can't believe your claim.

Please PROVE the “theory of gravity” before you insist that theorizing is in any way untenable.

And now you're just conflating the layman's definition of "prove" and "theory" with the scientific definition of "prove" and "theory", which are not the same thing.

A scientific theory is "an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. " (

You must be registered to see the links

)

As such, "proving" a scientific theory means "testing it to a high degree of certainty". It's a mistake to think that it means demonstrating it to be the absolute truth. It merely means that there have been numerous independent tests done attempting to disprove it in a number of ways, and so far the theory's predictions remain accurate.

@HiEv, Please continue believing that the sun orbits the earth. That’s all that you could see. Please don’t mind the conspiracy theory that is the “solar system.” And go ahead and hang that Galileo guy. He’s just a “conspiracy theorist.”

Wow. You just don't understand science or evidence at all, do you?

There's plenty of evidence that the Earth orbits the Sun. If anyone is acting like a geocentrist here, it's you, since you've demonstrated that you're more than willing to jump to conclusions based on scant evidence, ignoring contrary evidence that explains away most of your "evidence", and being led by your own personal biases.

But hey, if you insulting me makes you more secure in your beliefs, I can't stop that. However, it doesn't actually make your conspiracy theory any more viable, it merely makes you look like you've run out of actual evidence, and so you've resorted to insults now.

If you'd care to bring forth some objective evidence supporting your claim, I'm more than willing to listen, but your ignorance of how evidence works and your insults are far less convincing than you seem to think they are.

Have a nice day!

 

[hamlet17]

Maybe this new surge of revolt will finally initiate rise of some viable alternatives. I think that using of bitcoin is not so complicated and soon it will be a norm in payment just as now is Paypal. Bitbacker looks interesting.

 

[HiEv]

Maybe this new surge of revolt will finally initiate rise of some viable alternatives. I think that using of bitcoin is not so complicated and soon it will be a norm in payment just as now is Paypal. Bitbacker looks interesting.

Until there is some form of regulations for bitcoin, such as there are for standard currencies and stocks (both of which are analogous and are regulated to prevent dishonest/deceitful practices which have occurred in the past), then using them involves a risk you don't find with standard payment methods.

For example, in the stock market, some people used to buy a bunch of stocks cheap, then promote the heck out of those stocks, recommending that other people buy them. This causes the value of the stock to shoot up, which causes more people to buy, which causes it to go up more. Then that same person would sell out all their stock high, causing the stock to drop, leading to the stock plummeting back down to where it should be. However, in the process anyone who didn't get out fast enough would be screwed over. This is known as "

You must be registered to see the links

", and is totally illegal now in stocks, but there's little stopping you from doing that within the bitcoin market, where you "pump and dump" a certain type of bitcoin.

I agree with your first point that this gap in the market will breed competitors willing to fill that gap, we're already seeing that a bit, but so far (IMHO) it looks like bitcoin stuff is going to remain a bit of a niche market as long as it remains unregulated.

 

[hamlet17]

I don't know what are you talking about. The purpose of bitcoin is to NOT be regulated and to remain free. Not to allow breaking of law, but to allow free speech and expression of opinion and so "Patreons" and "Paypals" cannot enforce their made up rules on people. When it becomes regulated it will be as any other currency.

 

[hamlet17]

And also, when you are talking about niche market, I am sorry I need to reveal to you if you didn't notice... this site is dealing with niche type of visual novels/games ... it is not Steam...

 

[gamersglory]

“Real life” Pornography is hard to allow because of the recordkeeping requirements the US government has put on them adds way to much expense and yes even if the site is outside the US if it can be seen in the US you still have to comply

 

[HiEv]

I don't know what are you talking about.

What part was confusing?

The purpose of bitcoin is to NOT be regulated and to remain free. Not to allow breaking of law, but to allow free speech and expression of opinion and so "Patreons" and "Paypals" cannot enforce their made up rules on people.

You're quoting the promise of bitcoin, while totally ignoring the deficits of bitcoin, such as the one I laid out earlier. Other people won't ignore those problems, and so will stay away from bitcoin.

You need to realize that there are two sides to this... er... bitcoin, not merely the one side you like.

When it becomes regulated it will be as any other currency.

No, it wouldn't, because it's far more volatile than most other currencies. It's closer to owning a stock than a currency. Which is yet another downside to it.

And also, when you are talking about niche market, I am sorry I need to reveal to you if you didn't notice... this site is dealing with niche type of visual novels/games ... it is not Steam...

Yeah, but that just makes it worse. Since now you're relying on one niche market to support another niche market.

Just to pull a number out of the air for purposes of example, if 1% of all people are into these kinds of games and willing to pay for them, and only 5% of all people in the US use bitcoin (

You must be registered to see the links

), then on average only 0.05% of people will be in the overlap of that Venn diagram.

That's not a good business model to depend on.

 

[gamersglory]

Most Cryptos are too volatile to accept maybe something like USDE would work sense it has a never changing value

 

[hamlet17]

I am saying that if we are niche and want to have our freedom of expression (why incest can be in TV shows and not computer games?), we maybe need to be a little more flexible and adopt niche payment methods, if you want to call them that, but I don't think so.

 

[gamersglory]

Well Banks and Mastercard mainly

 

[thecardinal]

I am saying that if we are niche and want to have our freedom of expression (why incest can be in TV shows and not computer games?), we maybe need to be a little more flexible and adopt niche payment methods, if you want to call them that, but I don't think so.

Or just make the profit from incest games outweigh potential backlash from people dropping Patreon because of their choice to support it. Patreon isn't going to potentially lose money so they can make $5-10 off some unknown Dev making an incest game.

Look at the major porn companies with tons of incest content, it's clear that the banks and credit cards don't take the 'moral high ground' there.