Patreon Piracy

[dx_boost]

I'm just curious what you guys here this of the whole pirating porn games off patreon.
I know this is a site for exactly that but some of the members are patreons and I would be too if I had the money but what caught my attention today was how the developers of Timestamps delayed the update as they saw a decline in patreons.
What happens if they fuck up another update and the decline continues? They just quit making it?
How should the patrons that gave them money all previous months for developing the game feel then, not even getting a finished product?
I understand that being a patron has that gamble and I understand that we wouldn't see so much games without patreon but asking for more money just to continue developing something most developers "do for fun and in their own time/as a hobby" is just straight bullshit.
I don't want to bash on Motkeyz because I didn't really follow the game for long and I really like it, it's just that the whole thing got me thinking and I'd like to hear what people think about such things.
There are quite some game out here tagged abandoned or on hold that got funded through patreon while being developed and lots of developers that don't comunicate and take their time with updates all while releasing updates with little to no content.

Sorry if I didn't come off clear on thing, I'm not really good at writing down my thoughts but I hope it sparks a discussion at least.

 

[thecardinal]

It's really up to the developers to be clear about updates and when they receive pledges (per update or per month) and the patrons are free to stop support any time.

But yes, punishing your patrons (who pay) because of people who don't pay is probably a bad business move. I try not to judge developers too much, because making games is very demanding of your time and the compensation isn't much. That's why you see a lot of abandoned games.

 

[Nottravis]

It's a good question - and like all good questions has no easy answers.

I think if, as a developer, you set out with the view that the only people who -should- play your game is people who back you then...well you're living in a fools paradise. Unless you are releasing a fully finished game (and then you would have every reason to be vexed at people pirating it) you should accept Patreon funding for it it. i.e.

a person who supports with money, gifts, efforts, or endorsement an artist, writer, museum, cause, charity, institution, special event, or the like:a patron of the arts

In other words if you're developing something and using Patreon then that funding is as above. i.e. one is being supported in one's strivings to create art for everyone (even if with lots of boobs); not just for those you support you.

Look don't get me wrong. If I release my game and start whomping out chapters and people like it, great. And if it gets pirated after I spend £x on it then, sure, I'll get a bit grumpy. BUT if I accept Patreon for what it is...(see above) ..then I'll probably sleep easier than trying to imagine Patreon as a form of counter to customers.

That said, I can see why some good games get abandoned (let's ignore the V.000000000001's that get junked two weeks after release once the Dev's see that they haven't made Big Brother money in that time). Games do cost time and money and if the funds to offset it (once discounting for fun) don't come in then it's not unreasonable for Dev's to say "sod this" and take up golf instead. I suppose it does come down to, if you like a game? Support it. Even if only for a month every now and again.

 

[Agent HK47]

It's really up to the developers to be clear about updates and when they receive pledges (per update or per month) and the patrons are free to stop support any time.

But yes, punishing your patrons (who pay) because of people who don't pay is probably a bad business move. I try not to judge developers too much, because making games is very demanding of your time and the compensation isn't much. That's why you see a lot of abandoned games.

And this is why I would prefer if people just did these games because they feel a passion to make them, because that means that there is a heart driving it forward, and not just cold cash. Cash is a more powerful but also more fragile source of fuel.

 

[El bacca Del Chew]

what caught my attention today was how the developers of Timestamps delayed the update as they saw a decline in patreons.

It ain't exactly true.
As a patron of them and following their discord channel, the message was poorly written and misunderstand. Motkeyz and Aesouh are very active and responsive on discord and cleared it up a bit.
The update was delay because they cannot put out the version they wanted in time and yes they don't get the support they expected, so as real life has to come first, they delayed the update.
The "complain" was to express the desire to do more and on regular basis which could have been made possible by an increase of patrons=more money=less time in real jobs=abble to pay the bills. But so far it didn't happen and the feeling down from them came from the fact that more than 30.000 individuals users played the game and they got only 230 patrons.
They expected more and had high hopes ! It is their first game and still learning, so yeah they felt bad to see the lack of support but NEVER said they wish to quit, just slow down a little (the delay of the update is just for 7 days) and the real life/jobs will always come first.
That's all but i'm not their attorney and feel free to join their discord, they will gladly explain it personnaly.

 

[El bacca Del Chew]

punishing your patrons (who pay) because of people who don't pay is probably a bad business move

just slow down a little (the delay of the update is just for 7 days) and the real life/jobs will always come first.

 

[Nottravis]

and the feeling down from them came from the fact that more than 30.000 individuals users played the game and they got only 230 patrons.

Bloody hell....

You really can't blame them for putting real life first with those sort of numbers now can you? If just one in 20 had thrown a dollar or so in the hat, they'd have had their update.

 

[El bacca Del Chew]

Bloody hell....

You really can't blame them for putting real life first with those sort of numbers now can you? If just one in 20 had thrown a dollar or so in the hat, they'd have had their update.

Each and every one will see it how he feels. But for sure i will be guted !!
I mean, it starts like a hobby/passion, you invest time and money for your fun and decide to put it on patreon for see what it will say...and then after 1000 of hours and seeing that you game touch more than 30K people you must feel high !
But then you barely make a grant in support and after 6 month and not as a 20 year old guy living in parent's basement.
The down feeling is legit, and life caught you ! The rent needs to be paid, family/friends needs attention also, so i understand the slowing and the vent on patreon post !

But that's me ! As i said every one we"ll have its own point of view about it.

 

[thecardinal]

I still think you shouldn't plan updates around how many patrons you THINK you will have. Know your limits as a developer, everyone knows life has to come first. If 30,000 people play and 230 have pledged, those 230 really support your game and shouldn't have a promise broken because you don't plan ahead. But then again El Bacca is a patron and doesn't seem upset about it.

 

[Nottravis]

Oh I totally agree CC. Totes in line with what I said earlier. On the other hand I can see why, from a human perspective as Chewy says, why they're focusing on RL for a bit.

 

[Dr PinkCake]

Frankly, I understand the frustration of having 32k players enjoying your game and only 244 out of those willing to pledge and support the game. It is borderline giving their product away for free. Remember, these are indie devs not established studios with major funding. Assuming that they also spend money from their pockets to create the game I think you can see how that piles on more frustration, especially when players demands/expect updates to be pushed monhtly or bi-monthly.

However, piracy should never be used as an argument to punish those who do support you. That will only drive supporters away.

For most devs, these games are only hobbies as the money you get from pledges is nowhere near sufficient to live off. Peronally, I'm driven by the passion to tell a story, not by the need for money. So piracy doesn't really bother me, in fact it helps me spread my game and that is what I ultimately want. That said, the pledges I do get help me increase the quality of the game I develop and at some point, without patrons, I wouldn't afford to continue the project.

It's so sad to see a game that you love be abandoned, I think we all have been in that spot. To those of you who never support these games with your money (for whatever reason that may be), at least show some compassion for devs when an update is delayed. Believe me, they don't like it either.

 

[El bacca Del Chew]

those 230 really support your game and shouldn't have a promise broken because you don't plan ahead. But then again El Bacca is a patron and doesn't seem upset about it.

Agree 100% ! But i wasn't upset because they warned us in advance and the delay is only 7 days so not upset indeed

 

[Palanto]

That's life.... Some people pay and help the creators so they can effectively work more on the game (besides assets, each render [energy costs, time and so on], coders >:-> cost money too ), some don't and make the creators slow down... In my personal case it's like this, I'm married, have 3 kids and have to work full time besides all the stuff I do for everyone around here SO yeah, I can't be there 24/7 and I can't always work 8h a day on one of the games... so it effectively slows down the process of making those said games. If I'd get enough through i.e. patreon I'd work 8-12h a day on those games, but since I have to go to 12h nightshifts (3x) this weekend alone, there isn't much time to work on them. And if because of some more shifts I'd have to delay a game, well yes that's bad but that can and will always happen. You can't plan 100% accurately with something like patreon... It won't ever work unless you're one of the lucky big hitters.... And who knows how long it works for some of them.... So I can definitely understand why a "delay" can happen, and I wouldn't be upset even as a patron. It's just life, it's unpredictable at times....

 

[El bacca Del Chew]

I'm married, have 3 kids

The day one of your kid call you "Mister" that you will be the final sign to react

 

[Palanto]

The day one of your kid call you "Mister" that you will be the final sign to react

Probably I'm just glad they are old enough that I don't have to worry about them starving because I'm not there to feed them

 

[El bacca Del Chew]

Probably I'm just glad they are old enough that I don't have to worry about them starving because I'm not there to feed them

So soon or already the stage where it is you who called them mister/miss when they want more pocket money, haha.

 

[Palanto]

So soon or already the stage where it is you who called them mister/miss when they want more pocket money, haha.

14, 16, 18 so I'd say "already" at the stage

 

[Motkeyz]

Guys come on discord channel

You must be registered to see the links

you will see we are very active and never plan to leave. We are there mostly everyday if you have question or suggestion, we listen to our supporter, we have a dedicate patron only channel for exclusive pics too.
We moved the release date by a week but we are adding new art for a better and more complete update, so no lost! Are we gonna extend the release period and release when we feel the release is due and complete to our taste YES we will as of now.

I see most of you understand the situation of the real life taking over in our situation, we are doing everything on this game, we are not a big team so we never stop to work to improve the game every miinutes with got and more than that! We are not at version 0.01 its version0.4.2 soon.

We are not against piracy, WE post the game here. BUT If you like a game and want the production to continue its easy, support it, every 1$ will help and motivate the developer.

 

[DarthSeduction]

"do for fun and in their own time/as a hobby"

I'm sorry... Most? I'd say most developers want to at least supplement their income, if not do this full time. Are there hobbyists? Absolutely. But they aren't the ones putting their games on Patreon. And that is why when a game isn't doing well, regardless of the number of months someone has supported it, it can fail. Is that fair? No less fair than the person who has spent 100s of hours on the project only to have to put it down since it's failing.

I think what people need to understand about Patreon and all similar models is that the purpose is "as long as I've got support I can continue." Patreon is not the same as, say, gofundme, on which you set a high number goal and are committed to creating x for y amount. With Patreon it is I'm going to do this, but only as long as there is enough interest to make it worth my time. If it gets to the point where it's no longer worth our time as developers, it's better to jump ship than to go down with it.

It's important to understand just how much time goes into these games as well, I've been working on 2 different games for the better part of the last 7 months. Now, I'm just the writer on them, but neither of them have reached the point where they're ready for release yet, because there's that much to do. I wouldn't even call them incredibly ambitious projects, we're just trying to do them correctly. So that's 7 months of prep that we haven't seen a dime for. If we start putting the game out and it doesn't make money, we've just wasted all that time. And if we want to move on to something else, we are gonna be starting all over. So yes, if the game you like isn't making enough money, it's going to fail, and it's exactly as fair to the developer as it is to the patrons.

 

[thecardinal]

I'm sorry... Most? I'd say most developers want to at least supplement their income, if not do this full time. Are there hobbyists? Absolutely. But they aren't the ones putting their games on Patreon. And that is why when a game isn't doing well, regardless of the number of months someone has supported it, it can fail. Is that fair? No less fair than the person who has spent 100s of hours on the project only to have to put it down since it's failing.

I think what people need to understand about Patreon and all similar models is that the purpose is "as long as I've got support I can continue." Patreon is not the same as, say, gofundme, on which you set a high number goal and are committed to creating x for y amount. With Patreon it is I'm going to do this, but only as long as there is enough interest to make it worth my time. If it gets to the point where it's no longer worth our time as developers, it's better to jump ship than to go down with it.

It's important to understand just how much time goes into these games as well, I've been working on 2 different games for the better part of the last 7 months. Now, I'm just the writer on them, but neither of them have reached the point where they're ready for release yet, because there's that much to do. I wouldn't even call them incredibly ambitious projects, we're just trying to do them correctly. So that's 7 months of prep that we haven't seen a dime for. If we start putting the game out and it doesn't make money, we've just wasted all that time. And if we want to move on to something else, we are gonna be starting all over. So yes, if the game you like isn't making enough money, it's going to fail, and it's exactly as fair to the developer as it is to the patrons.

Patreon is for hobbyists too. My game is free and I've been pretty open that I can't commit much time to it. I use Patreon as a tip jar and only accept money per update so I have no deadline and can go at my own pace.