Patreon Piracy

Palanto

Active Member
Game Developer
Oct 4, 2017
964
1,839
As does @veqvil i.e. ;) There are enough hobbyists on patreon too, sure. But there really are a lot who want to do it for the long run and not for a bit of fun on the side, besides the costs for assets if you can't create them yourself (which takes a lot of time most small scale devs don't have) are quite high... Look at @Philly_Games i.e. he only made $12 by now, all the money he got before that time was gone even before he got it....
 

El bacca Del Chew

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2017
1,813
4,604
Money is quite a taboo subject in my country, if you are making a lot it seems suspicious, apparently it is not the only one land like that.

Funny how devs are the source of all evil:
-they are supposed to make games as a hobby on their free time but if they don't deliver in times and on regular basis = lazy bastards, unstrustfull.
-They are making money via patreon( 1 to 3 K/month) and fail to make huge updates each times = Milker
-they want to turn their hobby into a business = arrogant bastards

They are not all good and perfect and sounds logic to make some critics about the final results of their games, somes are bad and no reason to cuddle them. This is not kids football team where all the children get a medal for participation !

But when someone is spending 4 to 5 hrs everyday for 6 month to a year and decide it ain't worth the effort anymore, as a hobby, how blame them?
Of course, a very few of them makes 10 to 30K per months via patreon but there it ain't a hobby anymore, it's a job then you can expect different results, and even so it depends of the structure. A five team guy making 15k and living in America/West Europe, after taxes and fix costs (rent/bills)... it is still a hobby !

I will definitly never become a dev !!! Anyway i haven't got the skills, hehe.
 

dx_boost

Member
Mar 6, 2018
272
541
I didn't make this thread because I didn't like what Motkeyz and Aesouh did with the update, I'm not a patron so I don't have any right to and I love the game and have nothing but respect for them as the quality of their game and their communication is far beyond any other dev I've seen, it just got me thinking and wanted to see what other people here thought of the patreon model of making such games as the whole VN porn games scene (a scene I'm pretty new at).

If I understood right the whole VN porn games is quite new to the west and patreon was/is the way to go.
I also noticed how loads of hentai/3d games come from sites such as dlsite where you buy the whole product and it seems much more developed then western games.

Thanks for every reply, I didn't expect to get such response from devs and patrons and pirates but that is exactly why I made the thread.
 

Palanto

Active Member
Game Developer
Oct 4, 2017
964
1,839
Yeah well those games are finished products, most of the games on patreon aren't yet finished :) That's why the hentai ones or buy whole product ones are different from what patreon is for. Patreon is to get by "while" you're creating the game. Whereas if you're a big shot you "could" consider other places to sell finished products. But again, it's a kinda "small scale devs scene" which makes it hard to work a year or more on a game and then get the results of your work.... there's just too much to pay for to just go without any backup... You could do that, but then a game wouldn't take a year but 10 or so depending on how much "spare" money you have in your daily life...
 

Benn Swagger

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2016
1,478
2,050
Delay : There are many kind of delay. Deliberate, Forced & Unintentional.

a. Deliberate : Getting stress & goes offline without notice. Or, ransoming your own product if the requirement aren't met. This are a no-no, bad dev.

b. Forced : Miscalculated funds weren't delivered, so the productivity had to stop or postponed.
- Some of developer aren't multi talented, so they hired another artist on their specialty. In example if the developer is Coder + Story Writing, they paid other some money. When there's down in patreon donation, the money that should funding his own production & paying their co-op artist must forced to pick one at a time. So either funding his part first, or pay the hired artist first.
- Let say you get $500/month. Pay own bills for $300 then pay artist for $200. Then sudden drop in Patreon's donors, became $400. So the dev still have to pay $300 for bills, then save $100 now to next month so can paid the hired artist in full $200 next month.

c. Unintentional : IRL Main Job became busy, Sickness, Disaster, Patreon's witch hunt. You must have 2nd platform to inform your backers when this is happening. Luckily & already did by some developers, discord channel can became the independent developer community channel. Just notice everyone when something happen.

Piracy : What's wrong with it ? ... wrong Thread title I guess. Should be, "Developer & their Delay problem".

Donating on Patreon (& Similar like Kickstarter) : You know the risk when you sign up & donate.

Abandoned Tag : There's a lot of reason, but to make it simple, they ditch the developing world & chase another job IRL. In the beginning, making games is hardly equal to office job salary, let alone hoping your life support on Patreon's donation.
- Another half reason is, many creators are opportunist who think they can making games & interesting plus gain easy money, but they aren't talented & must face the harsh reality, no one/less funding their game. Then they quit.
 

XqctaX

Newbie
May 23, 2017
28
42
well im a patreon of motz aswell, so i guess all pirates have to take my opinion with a grain of salt :p
i have to say i agree with everything said by Chew.
myself i accually raised the amount of my support just days before we talked about "this" in the chatroom.
offcouse i understand that its frustrating with 30k players and 200ish payers but i never saw that as the main subject but rather a bit of venting.. while airing the real issue,

Time vs Quality. but then again it was ofc easier for me becasue i was in the chat talking with the crew because they are basically on 24/7. from my point of view Motz and Aeso wants to deliver topquality and substance and they have been burning the "midnight oil" so to say for a long time to keep the schedule, and that amount of worktime/load isnt sustainable without eventually burning out.

so to keep releasing the same quality/substance per update they need more time, myself i worked 12-16h shifts the last two months bearly seeing my kids, so i cant really faulter them for trying to balance life/work better
 

Shocker

Member
Jun 2, 2017
166
198
All valid points being made. To me though, the bottom line is this: Motkeyz should not have made that post on patreon. The issue and big debate here is not that there was a delay but rather the cryptic reasoning behind it in that post. The numbers sure sound awful (30k players, 200+ supporters) but my guess is, close to every other patreon adult game has those same numbers, the Devs just aren't tracking that and/or posting it on patreon. I mean look at DoD, Ptolemy has two (three?) games going one of which is on the most popular list here on f95 and he has 291 patrons.

I'm not arguing against Motkeyz, I mean, I get it. Hell i might have made the same decision. But, I wouldn't have given ammunition to the internet by posting my feelings of not being appreciated enough on patreon, where likely the only people who will see it are the people who are paying me (the opposite of the people that post was aimed at). Just my two cents.
 
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El bacca Del Chew

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2017
1,813
4,604
But, I wouldn't have given ammunition to the internet by posting my feelings of not being appreciated enough on patreon, where likely the only people who will see it are the people who are paying me
Valid point.
funny fact if you check his page:
Many dev don't give access to the game for 1 dollar patrons !

BRONZE
$1 or more per month
Thanks for joining this adventure


  • Access to patron-only content
  • Latest game release.
 
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Shocker

Member
Jun 2, 2017
166
198
Valid point.
funny fact if you check his page:
Many dev don't give access to the game for 1 dollar patrons !

BRONZE
$1 or more per month
Thanks for joining this adventure


  • Access to patron-only content
  • Latest game release.
I also noticed there is no public version at all. Unless I missed it somewhere on their patreon.
 
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Motkeyz

TIMESTAMPS
Game Developer
Oct 21, 2017
1,067
3,039
I also noticed there is no public version at all. Unless I missed it somewhere on their patreon.
NO there is no public release on patreon by security, but those who would like the game know where to find it ;) We currently post it here. Come visit us on the discord channel we are having lot of fun there
 

MaxCarna

Member
Game Developer
Jun 13, 2017
383
442
I can't talk about the game that you mention, but being strict to the title.

I would like to notice that the biggest adult games creator on Patreon (in number of patrons) is DarkCookie, and he give the full content for free. The high tiers are related to better download options and communication tools. I don't believe that a drop in the number of patrons has anything related to someone else sharing your game without consent.

We commonly talk about game projects involving 3 roles: the writer, the animator and the programmer. But in fact the project also involve more 2 roles: the manager and the advertiser/social media. Roles doesn't mean persons, one person can act in multiple roles. They make part of project, you can't suppress a role and expect that everything will be just fine.

The manager is responsible to plan how the products will be delivered, the delivery format, the project phase. He is the one that must realize that if you deliver all the content in a download file, people will probably replicate this file in other places, we won't be able to control the file sharing.

The advertiser will be responsible for announce the game over channels, to try to gather new patrons, finantiators. He have to think about what can attract new people, and at the same time, to keep the current ones, generating loyalty. If the numbers are falling, seen like the advertiser role should be reinforced, and not blame the manager.

About keeping some content reserved. My project is not that big, and I have little exclusive content yet, but I'm making something that I didn't see yet in other projects. Patron has an API that you can call to authenticate users, the API inform what is his level. I use that to lock and unlock content and keep them only in the server. A hacker would easily bypass that, but a common user will have difficult. Is an idea maybe, if the piracy is really bothering. But this is not what is causing a patrons drop.
 

Deleted member 167032

Alternate Existence
Donor
Game Developer
Aug 16, 2017
2,719
4,932
Patreon is a site where ppl can say, I like what you do, here have some sponsorship money. It's not my main income. I have a 08h00-17h00 job and I work on my game at nights and weekends. My wife does not like it but she knows it's a hobby I like, creating that is.

To get paying sponsorship is such an amazing feeling and yes money is always welcome.
NOW if creating these games are your main income and your job like Dark Silver and MrDots then you work at it and you rely heavily on Patrons.

I am not sure what the story is regarding Timestamp but i've spoken to Motz and Aesouh on Discord a few times and they are extremely friendly and helpful guys. So I cannot believe they would deliberately piss off their patreons and or anyone else.
 
Jan 5, 2018
24
53
It is worth mentioning in regards to timestamps not having a free public version (like say summertime saga), that you only need to make a 1 dollar pledge to access the game. So the it's not like the paywall is all that high, they are certainly not trying gouge people or anything. Still as one of the patrons of the that game it saddens me it gets so little support. Frankly it's quality is actually better than a lot of other H-games in terms of art, and definitely programing. Do feel that as more content comes out for it, it will get more support.
 
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seyfer110

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2016
1,142
1,259
It is worth mentioning in regards to timestamps not having a free public version (like say summertime saga), that you only need to make a 1 dollar pledge to access the game.
Well, we are Forbidden to post any public link on patreon...I mean links for NSFW material ofc.
 
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