Pay rates for game development team

[Dave98424]

I am looking for info regarding acceptable pay rates to develop a solid team. If you have experience managing a team of developers please give me some input as far as pay rates go. My business is at a standstill and I have been working on a game concept for awhile now and think this may be a good time to pull the trigger.

 

[ViNovella]

Most people make games themself. I know several NSFW game developers and none of them is doing it as employment. People do it because they like it, because they can create something their own. I was approached by some people to hire me to work for them. They wanted me to continue doing my game but under their brand. I told them that this is not in my interest. They didn't answer a question about rates and what they can offer.
If you can do a game do it. If you need someone try to find a partner.

 

[Dave98424]

From the numbers I have seen it is very possible to make a game that is a profitable business. In my opinion the reason so many games fall apart is because the developer is often trying to do everything him or herself and looking at it more as hobby than as a business. Nothing wrong with the developer / hobby model but that does mean that a nsfw game cannot be done as a profitable business. At least that is what I am thinking now...lol I may end up wasting allot of money and time and find out I am wrong but nothing ventured, nothing gained...

 

[ViNovella]

You need to look at the number of games and how many of them are profitable. How long are they in this market. Everyone here can tell you that it is not an industry that you are coming if you want a quick buck... Most games are done for passion and they only become profitable years later.
Also if you are looking for people you might want to put more details on what kind of people do you need for your game.

 

[Dave98424]

You need to look at the number of games and how many of them are profitable. How long are they in this market. Everyone here can tell you that it is not an industry that you are coming if you want a quick buck... Most games are done for passion and they only become profitable years later.
Also if you are looking for people you might want to put more details on what kind of people do you need for your game.

I am working on a list and will post more details. For now just looking to gather more info. I am not going to do this to make a quick buck.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I am working on a list and will post more details. For now just looking to gather more info. I am not going to do this to make a quick buck.

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is your friend. You don't need to go further than the first 100 devs (over 2 797) to find some that earn less that $3 000/month ; and therefore just enough to make a living once removed all the taxes. Once passed the top 100, there's less than a dozen that earn enough to pay someone to code their game.
In conclusion, at max only 3% of them can afford this. Some have more than one source for their income, but it don't really raise the percent, because should also be took in count those who don't have a Patreon account.

 

[おい！]

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is your friend. You don't need to go further than the first 100 devs (over 2 797) to find some that earn less that $3 000/month ; and therefore just enough to make a living once removed all the taxes. Once passed the top 100, there's less than a dozen that earn enough to pay someone to code their game.
In conclusion, at max only 3% of them can afford this. Some have more than one source for their income, but it don't really raise the percent, because should also be took in count those who don't have a Patreon account.

Of course it also depends on which country the Dev is from, $3,000 a month is worth a lot more in some countries than others.

 

[DaScoot]

You really have to look outside of the Patreon model to find something approaching normal developer economy in porn games. Stuff like HuniePop or some of the Nutaku games might bring in enough revenue to pay a developer what they're worth. But on Patreon? Even the most successful games, which do actually manage to bring in enough to pay for developers, can only afford to pay about half of what those developers would get in any other software job. They can only manage it on promises of a cut when/if the game makes it big on Steam.

Basically, by US standards of living anyways, it probably goes
Standard Software Developer, Low End: $55k a year, paid vacation, at least minimal health and retirement benefits.
Patreon Porn Coder, High End: $30K a year, no vacation, no benefits, promise of a profit cut on final release.
Patreon Porn Coder, 95% of cases: Makes a bit of pocket change at best, or even loses money.

 

[Kinderalpha]

If you're looking for monetization, I don't think anything will move money quicker than horny adults playing porn games with microtransactions. Microtransactions are impulsive by nature, couple that with pornography and you have a deadly formula. Nutaku has a game called King of Wasteland that moves a ridiculous amount of money. It's just your typical Mafia Boss game with heavy usage of real money. It's essentially pay to win, no question.

It's terribly optimized, even more terribly balanced. Ruled by Chinese players, very little art compared to games found on this site. Yet probably the most grossing adult game out there. Why? It's on mobile, it's a massively online multiplayer, and it's an adult game. It's addictive as fuck, and full of degenerates.

So if you're looking to make money, mobile is the way to go. Micro transactions (which aren't mobile specific) have proven to be very profitable. Is it the best thing to do? Will the community approve of it? More than likely not, but money's money. You don't have to go mobile, but that model is most fitting for microtransactions.

 

[tomcire]

I am looking for info regarding acceptable pay rates to develop a solid team. If you have experience managing a team of developers please give me some input as far as pay rates go. My business is at a standstill and I have been working on a game concept for awhile now and think this may be a good time to pull the trigger.

Hi.
Beside the concept, what can you do for the development?
Are you a writer? A 2D artist? A 3D artist?
What kind of game would you like to do?
How many people you want to bring on?
Which kind of people you need to hire?
There are coders and coders, artists and artist.
I'm sorry to put down your dreams, but if you are not a good writer, good coder or good artist you may not encourage anybody to join you, the "idea guys" in development are not a thing... and for the pay, well, just split the revenue, if it goes well everybody is happy, if not, everybody is free to go for their roads without regrets. Unless you have 100-200k to invest for a game don't even think you can hire 3-4 skilled workers for few months.
But be careful: teams made randomly on the web rarely works.

I suggest you: if you have some skills write a story or a "gamebook" as a prologue of your game, draw/model/compose some concept art, build an engine with the core functionality, then you can attract someone skilled in your project.

 

[Dave98424]

I have what I believe to be a very good concept with some very innovative elements, I have a solid story, and I have a large budget within the range you listed. I agree 100% that teams made randomly on the web rarely work so this is why I am asking questions and researching allot so as to figure out how to improve the odds of success.

 

[BossFloof]

There's lots of things to consider. Looking at one of the biggest salary surveys in the industry from 2014, you can start to get a clue on what you need to pay when setting up a team in the US or EU. There are cheaper locations but it really depends on what you're doing and how you want to do it:

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From experience I can tell you, that in the end every team costs about the same. Teams from a different cultural background will introduce additional overhead and friction that will even out with hiring a dev from your region. I just assumes you're from US/EU, no offense.

If you want work-for-hire developers/studios, you can basically add 50% on top of the salaries to get a good feeling for the rates to cover the studios other expenses, warranties and margin. Most (serious) studios will not work on a rev-share alone. All games start as good ideas but in the end, only 1% really makes its money back. And everyone has ideas. It's the execution that counts and if you want to get something truly great, you need experienced devs and a budget 3x what you initially thought it would cost, because you will iterate the hell out of a game to make it great.

How long will it take you and how many devs do you need? That's the real question. As you didn't produce a game yet (presumably), you'll very likely underestimate the effort - greatly - that is required! Best is to share your idea with as many people as early as possible to get feedback and a better impression of the effort to realize it. Noone is stealing ideas, again, execution/team is what counts.

I'm 15+ years in the industry, 10+ running my own studio. You don't need to trust me on this, but you can

 

[polywog]

 

[jclave]

Yeah, if you want to hire people, you would need to pay them a livable wage.
If you want to hire professional employees, you would need to pay market rate.
If you are employing a contractor just for the project, instead of full time, the market rate is even higher to compensate for the fact that this is not a permanent position.
Standard contractor rate is like $70 USD / hr where I live. (Australia)

I came to the same realisation after talking to a bunch of developers from this forum.
It's just not a feasible business model to hire people to make a porn game if you are starting out.
But I've seen cases where ppl who do succeed in earning big bucks on Patreon go on to hire people with their earning.

 

[danteworks]

Most people make games themself. I know several NSFW game developers and none of them is doing it as employment. People do it because they like it, because they can create something their own. I was approached by some people to hire me to work for them. They wanted me to continue doing my game but under their brand. I told them that this is not in my interest. They didn't answer a question about rates and what they can offer.
If you can do a game do it. If you need someone try to find a partner.

Many devs were approached, I was too! They offered no value at all while wanting some level of ownership of the game. I had two such people approach me before and both equally unprofessional.

 

[215303j]

I think that most Patreon devs ("if I reach xyz goal I'll hire someone") do it the wrong way around and the OP is approaching it as a normal businessman would.

I also think it definately has merits.

I *think* you can hire a developer in e.g. Russia for around $500 / month. So if you hire a coder, a writer and an artist, you are looking at $1500 / month in wages. Add to that initial investment (computers, office supplies etc.) and rent. So I think that $2500 / month + initial investment could get you a good team.

The problem is the revenue model. The Patreon model with monthly donations could work but is quite uncertain with regards to revenue. There are plenty of really good games with monthly updates which are not making more than $1000 / month.

 

[Dave98424]

The monetization model is an issue I am still thinking about. I am leaning toward a pay per update initially via Patreon and moving over to paid search and driving traffic to a monthly subscription model of some sort but still looking at all options.

 

[jclave]

I think that most Patreon devs ("if I reach xyz goal I'll hire someone") do it the wrong way around and the OP is approaching it as a normal businessman would.

If OP was approaching it like a normal businessman, I hope he/she have done the following things before deciding to employ ppl:
* Have extremely intimate understanding of their target customers. (to the point, it's possible to predict the target customers decision making behaviors)
* Validated that the target customers will actually pay money by actually engaging with them
* Have minimum estimate of how many of them exist backed by actual figures

This is based on my knowledge of how startups properly do market research.

Also regarding outsourcing some remote eastern european workers, you should read up on actual companies who attempted to do that.
Ease of communication, time zone difference, the level of talent (the good ones command much higher salary) all factor into that bargain labor cost.

 

[Dave98424]

Target customer is understood, minimum estimate is unclear, time zone issues is something I am used to with my primary business and have tons of experience with, level of talent is what I am currently most interested in and seeking out. As far as the "validated that the target customers will actually pay money" is going to based entirely on the result produced. Not really able to ever validate that question ahead of time otherwise no one would ever launch a failed business.

 

[desmosome]

If you're looking for monetization, I don't think anything will move money quicker than horny adults playing porn games with microtransactions. Microtransactions are impulsive by nature, couple that with pornography and you have a deadly formula. Nutaku has a game called King of Wasteland that moves a ridiculous amount of money. It's just your typical Mafia Boss game with heavy usage of real money. It's essentially pay to win, no question.

It's terribly optimized, even more terribly balanced. Ruled by Chinese players, very little art compared to games found on this site. Yet probably the most grossing adult game out there. Why? It's on mobile, it's a massively online multiplayer, and it's an adult game. It's addictive as fuck, and full of degenerates.

So if you're looking to make money, mobile is the way to go. Micro transactions (which aren't mobile specific) have proven to be very profitable. Is it the best thing to do? Will the community approve of it? More than likely not, but money's money. You don't have to go mobile, but that model is most fitting for microtransactions.

I can attest to this. The mediocre porn games on nutaku makes an absurd amount of money that patreon cannot even compare. I play this game called Cunt Wars (which actually has really good gameplay lol) and the whales spend an obscene amount of money every month.

Porn game + micro transactions = $$$$$