Payment systems don't like adult games?

[elzee]

For all patreon creators - did you have any troubles with payment system (PayPal, Payoneer, Stripe) because of content you create? If you did - I would like to hear more about that.
As far as I know - Payoneer and Stripe have rules against any adult oriented content. I haven't found any for PayPal, however I have found an article that PayPal had some issues with that as well.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[DarthSeduction]

Patreon has a deal with Paypal it seems. It is PayPal's fault that we are no longer allowed to do incest, non-con, or bestiality on the platform, however they are allowing the rest... for now.

I would absolutely suggest against doing PayPal on your own, either through a game donation link, or a personal website. PayPal has a responsibility, legally, to make sure that no one is using their platform for illegal activity, drug trafficking, sex work, etc, and as a result they will make inquiries when they see you're getting large numbers of donations from all over. When they find out its for adult content you will lose your account and no longer be able to use PayPal.

There are options, tipping services, like Buy me a Coffee, for instance, don't appear to ask any questions or raise any eyebrows, yet, however, the new american laws surrounding sex workers might change that as we move forward. In a misguided attempt to crack down on sex trafficking they made it so that they can hold the platforms liable if they're enabling this activity. Of course this only makes it easier for traffickers to take advantage of girls, by removing their safer alternatives on the internet, and pushing them further into seclusion. But that's another discussion entirely.

I'm currently holding out hope for "

You must be registered to see the links

" which aims to be a more accepting platform than Patreon. They already have a payment provider that has promised they'd be allowed to use whatever adult content (within the law) they want, and with a fee schedule that is close to Patreon's. According to their

You must be registered to see the links

, they hope to be launched by fall of this year.

 

[elzee]

I'm currently holding out hope for "

You must be registered to see the links

" which aims to be a more accepting platform than Patreon. They already have a payment provider that has promised they'd be allowed to use whatever adult content (within the law) they want, and with a fee schedule that is close to Patreon's. According to their

You must be registered to see the links

, they hope to be launched by fall of this year.

EmerchantBroker, huh?
It looks like they focus on adult content creators mostly. Considering on high profits in adult industry, that seems to be nice idea.

 

[OttO]

It is PayPal's fault

Care to back that statement with some facts concerning this particular situation?
For all we now it could have been Goldman Sachs or even Trump himself. Them preparing to change payment processor to the UK one is more probable reason than the one you gave.

Patreon has a deal with Paypal it seems.

The only deal I can recall, that is public knowledge, is the one they made with Braintree (Paypal's subsidiary) back in 2015 (or was it 2016) about how " We are proud to welcome adult creators on our platform."

Paypal is not all evil, tt has issues with adult content sure, but this can be said about most financial institutions in all countries not just America.

 

[Mkae]

Ko-fi already removing adult content

You must be registered to see the links

bcuz of paypal and stripe.

buymeacoffee.com also uses stripe, so they will probably follow ko-fi...

 

[Oiz]

Patreon has a deal with Paypal it seems. It is PayPal's fault that we are no longer allowed to do incest, non-con, or bestiality on the platform, however they are allowing the rest... for now.

I would absolutely suggest against doing PayPal on your own, either through a game donation link, or a personal website. PayPal has a responsibility, legally, to make sure that no one is using their platform for illegal activity, drug trafficking, sex work, etc, and as a result they will make inquiries when they see you're getting large numbers of donations from all over. When they find out its for adult content you will lose your account and no longer be able to use PayPal.

There are options, tipping services, like Buy me a Coffee, for instance, don't appear to ask any questions or raise any eyebrows, yet, however, the new american laws surrounding sex workers might change that as we move forward. In a misguided attempt to crack down on sex trafficking they made it so that they can hold the platforms liable if they're enabling this activity. Of course this only makes it easier for traffickers to take advantage of girls, by removing their safer alternatives on the internet, and pushing them further into seclusion. But that's another discussion entirely.

I'm currently holding out hope for "

You must be registered to see the links

" which aims to be a more accepting platform than Patreon. They already have a payment provider that has promised they'd be allowed to use whatever adult content (within the law) they want, and with a fee schedule that is close to Patreon's. According to their

You must be registered to see the links

, they hope to be launched by fall of this year.

Interesting. I remember someone coming to the discord with a similar site. However people didn't trust it and I think it's pretty much dead now, unless it's the same one.
One of the major problems was that the payment provider took a way bigger cut, as per usual with such that accept adult content. Bloo posted an interesting article on that matter, that even big pornsites face. In essence it was a lot of wife sees a dubious payment made on the bank account, husband says I didn't do that, calls the bank and they do a chargeback. So most payment providers refuse to accept porn money, because they don't want to deal with that. That's when porn sites have to direct their attention towards other payment providers who take 30% cuts instead of 3% and accept that kind of content. Of course this is just the short version and the article bloo linked was way more detailed.

It would be nice if people will actually use the service you linked, but I wouldn't keep my hopes up. Successful creators have a big crowd on patreon and I'd imagine only a fraction of those patrons are willing to switch over to a new service, that hasn't established itself yet. Especially if it takes a bigger cut.

 

[Delmach]

Ahhh and they of course open up with "freedom of speech" and freedom of creators, and that "Ko-fi must be a place open to all audiences"

so therefore it "can not be the venue for illegal, violent, adult, sexual or hateful content."

yeah sure, that makes sense. Or no, wait a second, it doesnt make sense.

But im wondering why they have a NSFW tag then, as the things they mention really cover nearly everything possible. Even censored content which would probably be fine on Prude TV seems to not be ok.

Well at least they immediately say its PayPals doing, no hiding it.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Care to back that statement with some facts concerning this particular situation?
For all we now it could have been Goldman Sachs or even Trump himself. Them preparing to change payment processor to the UK one is more probable reason than the one you gave.


The only deal I can recall, that is public knowledge, is the one they made with Braintree (Paypal's subsidiary) back in 2015 (or was it 2016) about how " We are proud to welcome adult creators on our platform."

Paypal is not all evil, tt has issues with adult content sure, but this can be said about most financial institutions in all countries not just America.

Yeah, because they're gonna come right out and say it, that would totally make their much more powerful payment provider happy, pointing the finger like that. All the data points to either PayPal, or their more recent investors, many of which are also financial institutions. So yes, its possible, though not likely, that it's coming from another financial institution. Beyond that, there's the question of whether or not the moral policing of the Trump Admin has anything to do with it, but, most of that happened after the rule change. What many are saying caused Patreon and it's interested partners to react so harshly was the recent purge they did following the discovery of fringe racist groups using the platform to fund things like stopping refugees from making it to Europe. The running theory, as a result, is that this microscope exposed those of us who were making more fringe content that made Paypal or investors freak out.

As to the "moving to the UK" thing.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Why the fuck would you go somewhere with higher taxes? Seriously. Amazon paid 0 in taxes last year, and they weren't the only ones. No financial company is going to move to the UK.

Interesting. I remember someone coming to the discord with a similar site. However people didn't trust it and I think it's pretty much dead now, unless it's the same one.
One of the major problems was that the payment provider took a way bigger cut, as per usual with such that accept adult content. Bloo posted an interesting article on that matter, that even big pornsites face. In essence it was a lot of wife sees a dubious payment made on the bank account, husband says I didn't do that, calls the bank and they do a chargeback. So most payment providers refuse to accept porn money, because they don't want to deal with that. That's when porn sites have to direct their attention towards other payment providers who take 30% cuts instead of 3% and accept that kind of content. Of course this is just the short version and the article bloo linked was way more detailed.

It would be nice if people will actually use the service you linked, but I wouldn't keep my hopes up. Successful creators have a big crowd on patreon and I'd imagine only a fraction of those patrons are willing to switch over to a new service, that hasn't established itself yet. Especially if it takes a bigger cut.

Quoting them as of May

You must be registered to see the links

Hello everyone, Sponsorion Team here.

This week we’ve decided to dive more into where things are with respect to our launch. Earlier this year we ran into several unexpected complications that set us back a few months, but we’re now on track to complete the site in time for a Fall 2018 launch. We often receive emails from creators interested in the site, and wanted to cover some of the most frequently asked questions here, specifically those involving pledges and payouts:

Who pays the fees? - Like our competitor, we’ll be taking the transaction fees from the pledged amount (so if a sponsor pledges $1, they pay $1 and the fees are taken from that). Batch processing will be used to reduce the total cost, for sponsors pledging many creators.

Who is your payment processor? - We’re in talks with EmerchantBroker, a very well-reviewed payment processor that specializes in ‘high-risk’ processing. For those unfamiliar with the terminology, “high risk” includes adult content which is exactly the kind of processing we need.

What are their transaction fees? - EMB’s initial rate is 3.95% + 0.35c. Over time this will be reduced to 2.95% + 0.35 which is nearly identical to Paypal (2.9+0.35c). The total payment processor fee for us will be 3.95% + 0.45c due to an additional 10c surcharge to use their payment portal technology. Developing our own international-transaction-capable payment portal tech, at this point, would cost roughly 40 times as much as the rest of the site combined. Future implementation, however, could reduce fees in the future.

Will we be able to handle Vat? - Yes.
How will payouts to creators be handled? - We’re currently planning on using ACH bank services directly. That’s generally what all the major payout companies do, they’ve just streamlined the process. This means that payouts will be made a few days after the start of each month. Although there are ways we could ensure rapid, any-time payouts from the get-go all of those ways involve fees much higher than the tiny amount banks charge to move the money. Once our company is larger we’ll be able to automate this regardless, even if we have to set up our own system to do it, but at our current size direct ACH appears to be our best option. We’re still looking into this, however; if we can find a service with a rate comparable with Payoneer/Stripe/etc, that explicitly states they are happy to work with adult content, we will use it.

Will you accept Paypal? – No. Paypal is extremely hostile to adult content creators, it took our competitor years of operations to get them on board and we don’t know what concessions they had make to Paypal to be acceptable.

 

[Oiz]

Quoting them as of May

Okay, the only concern remaining would be, that the biggest patreons may not settle over, because that would mean losing their patreons. Unless they decide to use both services. Most of them already make patches for their games anyways, so it wouldn't be difficult to release the incest/bestiality/non-con version on one platform and the safe for patreon version on the other I guess. I'll be keeping an eye out on this for sure.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Okay, the only concern remaining would be, that the biggest patreons may not settle over, because that would mean losing their patreons. Unless they decide to use both services. Most of them already make patches for their games anyways, so it wouldn't be difficult to release the incest/bestiality/non-con version on one platform and the safe for patreon version on the other I guess. I'll be keeping an eye out on this for sure.

I wouldn't suggest doing it like that, since Patreon has a habit of finding you on other platforms to make sure you aren't hiding something from them. I believe one came to a creator with a screenshot from something like SVScomics asking if they were sure they couldn't get them to change that, to which the creator responded, something along the lines of, "No, I'm actually making a DMCA claim against them since they are pirating my work and profiting from it." I actually wanna say it was @carnalcardinal but I could be wrong.

That said, I'd definitely love to put my current incest project there rather than Patreon, so yeah.

 

[User_51567]

Okay, the only concern remaining would be, that the biggest patreons may not settle over, because that would mean losing their patreons. Unless they decide to use both services. Most of them already make patches for their games anyways, so it wouldn't be difficult to release the incest/bestiality/non-con version on one platform and the safe for patreon version on the other I guess. I'll be keeping an eye out on this for sure.

Patreon is lately not to happy about such things.
Most safe option will be (in my personal opinion).
To use the Sponsorion as your primary hub and do all the things that you want to (So incest, beasty and such).
And then make something simple like a image service on patreon where you post a simple image every week so people are still able to support you through it.(no mention whatsoever of the Sponsorion content).

(Sorry if my English is even worse then normal, but typing on a cracked screen smartphone isn't easy )

 

[Oiz]

I wouldn't suggest doing it like that, since Patreon has a habit of finding you on other platforms to make sure you aren't hiding something from them. I believe one came to a creator with a screenshot from something like SVScomics asking if they were sure they couldn't get them to change that, to which the creator responded, something along the lines of, "No, I'm actually making a DMCA claim against them since they are pirating my work and profiting from it." I actually wanna say it was @carnalcardinal but I could be wrong.

That said, I'd definitely love to put my current incest project there rather than Patreon, so yeah.

I just can't imagine the big ones earning 5k+ a month switching over then. At least not in the first year or so. Just imagine you have 2000 patreons totalling in 10k$ a month. The risk of losing the patrons would just be way too high to me (If I was said patreon) to do that. That being said, we may see a wave of new devs using that site to begin with, which could be great. Like I said, definitely something to your eyes out for.

Patreon is lately not to happy about such things.
Most safe option will be (in my personal opinion).
To use the Sponsorion as your primary hub and do all the things that you want to (So incest, beasty and such).
And then make something simple like a image service on patreon where you post a simple image every week so people are still able to support you through it.(no mention whatsoever of the Sponsorion content).

(Sorry if my English is even worse then normal, but typing on a cracked screen smartphone isn't easy )

I'm not sure that would work out, since patrons probably wouldn't have access to the sponsorion content and you really can't expect people to pay 10$ a month for some images ripped from your game.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Patreon is lately not to happy about such things.
Most safe option will be (in my personal opinion).
To use the Sponsorion as your primary hub and do all the things that you want to (So incest, beasty and such).
And then make something simple like a image service on patreon where you post a simple image every week so people are still able to support you through it.(no mention whatsoever of the Sponsorion content).

(Sorry if my English is even worse then normal, but typing on a cracked screen smartphone isn't easy )

That isn't actually such a bad idea, give your patrons a heads up in private through discord or something, quietly move to Sponsorion and ask any who are willing to follow you there, and then refocus your Patreon to something banal, like erotic art.

 

[DarthSeduction]

I just can't imagine the big ones earning 5k+ a month switching over then. At least not in the first year or so. Just imagine you have 2000 patreons totalling in 10k$ a month. The risk of losing the patrons would just be way too high to me (If I was said patreon) to do that. That being said, we may see a wave of new devs using that site to begin with, which could be great. Like I said, definitely something to your eyes out for.

I agree, there's no reason to think that they would. But they also don't have to for it to work. It's more about the people starting new games, or who have already been kicked off Patreon, like Dots and Dark Silver, who would be able to revive BB and DmD's funding.

 

[Oiz]

I agree, there's no reason to think that they would. But they also don't have to for it to work. It's more about the people starting new games, or who have already been kicked off Patreon, like Dots and Dark Silver, who would be able to revive BB and DmD's funding.

You're really making it hard for me to keep rooting for the site's success when you threaten me with the revival of BB okerFace:

Both Dark Silver and MrDots are still on patreon, though. I'm not sure how patreon would handle them double dipping, even if it is with different products.

 

[DarthSeduction]

You're really making it hard for me to keep rooting for the site's success when you threaten me with the revival of BB okerFace:

Both Dark Silver and MrDots are still on patreon, though. I'm not sure how patreon would handle them double dipping, even if it is with different products.

I do wonder about that myself. It shouldn't matter, but corporations are gonna be corporations.

As to the revival of BB, I'm not advocating for it as a good game, just as good publicity for sponsorion to the far too many people who appreciated it.

I'm pretty sure I've ripped BB a new asshole on 3 seperate discussions since I woke up around noon here on the US west coast. (I think we are -8)

 

[thecardinal]

I wouldn't suggest doing it like that, since Patreon has a habit of finding you on other platforms to make sure you aren't hiding something from them. I believe one came to a creator with a screenshot from something like SVScomics asking if they were sure they couldn't get them to change that, to which the creator responded, something along the lines of, "No, I'm actually making a DMCA claim against them since they are pirating my work and profiting from it." I actually wanna say it was @carnalcardinal but I could be wrong.

That said, I'd definitely love to put my current incest project there rather than Patreon, so yeah.

 

[elzee]

Is anyone using Payoneer BTW?

 

[DarthSeduction]

Hmm... Maybe it was the Perverted Hotel Dev then... You both got active on discord around the same time.

 

[seyfer110]

As to the "moving to the UK" thing.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Why the fuck would you go somewhere with higher taxes? Seriously. Amazon paid 0 in taxes last year, and they weren't the only ones. No financial company is going to move to the UK.

Well, they actually started using a bank system located in the UK, and that caused a LOT of problems during this month payouts, as a lot of CC blocked the payments and resulted into a lot of "declined pledge" at the start of the month.
There is a thread about the issue here:

You must be registered to see the links

Oh, and btw, the UK is even Worse regarding porn material...so.... "WINTER IS COMING"

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I think that was "adultpledge", and ye, it seems quite dead; there are jus a couple of project on there, all with zero backers. Not to mention their fee was something like 0.65$ + 10%, and that would've cut out 1$ pladges ( which a lot of patrons use). If I remember well, they were looking to something more..."affordable"...