RPGM Peasant's Quest [v3.91] [Tinkerer]

[storm1105]

Orcs were invented by Tolkien as a type of souped-up goblin so all trace back to that. Which makes them monsters.

Dark Elves come from Norse folklore. The Ljos'alfar (Light Elves) & Dökk/Svart'alfar (Dark Elves). I'm not disagreeing that D&D helped solidify the modern conception for most fantastical creatures but they took inspiration form 100s of different media forms to help create their game.

But my point is were not basing things off there original origin, were are basing them off the typical fantasy tropes. If you said that Everi was a dwarf just because dark elves are dwarves in mythology you wouldn't really be right. Since basically the 80s Orcs haven't been monsters but just another humanoid race same as elves and dwarves, they just happen to be a race that leans more towards the evil alignment. In modern fantasy orc are literally just muscular green humans

 

[gforsMan1]

When the new crafting system (including kitchen stuff) was introduced, a number of things were changed. One of those is not being able to butcher rabbits/boars/bears for steaks until after you have Jenny do it for you. (Technically the steaks thing reverted to an earlier version where that was always required, but most players came along after it was changed to not needing to see Jenny.)

There are four situations that will unlock asking Jenny for that: Alice's key, Erevi's date, distracting Balder, and getting Frida to forgive you after the giants' hunting grounds arc. Seems to me you need to visit Jenny now.

Thanks for the Info. That helped a lot.

 

[FunFuntomes]

Go around and ask most fantasy fans if they consider orcs to be monster and you're going to get a typical no.

because most modern settings let you play as an orc

and how faraway they are from humans.

the orcs in PQ are monsters that attack, pillage and rape, there is nothing human about them

 

[PhineasFlynn]

the orcs in PQ are monsters that attack, pillage and rape, there is nothing human about them

That are historically most common human abilites

 

[FunFuntomes]

Those are very human traits. But anyway it's about appearance not how they act. You have a human with wings and they're not a monster girl, you give them bird feet and they're a monster girl. Angels aren't monster girls, but Harpies are. They need to be different enough from the star trek aliens that are just humans with different foreheads. A character with horns isn't a monster girl just because they have horns, you give them horns plus a tail and scale/fur and they are.


Orcs are just too close in appearance to humans in most settings to justify calling a female orc a monster girl. As it's usally just a green human with not a ton of differences. You could probably make them more monstrous, but that's not how the majority of them look. Unless you just consider monster girls to be any non human it doesn't really make much sense to consider them that for the same reason why I don't consider the giantesses to be monster girls.

now you're just moving the goal-post to a arbitrary number of traits

 

[DomWolf]

Those are very human traits. But anyway it's about appearance not how they act. You have a human with wings and they're not a monster girl, you give them bird feet and they're a monster girl. Angels aren't monster girls, but Harpies are. They need to be different enough from the star trek aliens that are just humans with different foreheads. A character with horns isn't a monster girl just because they have horns, you give them horns plus a tail and scale/fur and they are.


Orcs are just too close in appearance to humans in most settings to justify calling a female orc a monster girl. As it's usally just a green human with not a ton of differences. You could probably make them more monstrous, but that's not how the majority of them look. Unless you just consider monster girls to be any non human it doesn't really make much sense to consider them that for the same reason why I don't consider the giantesses to be monster girls.

The definition of is an unnatural creature that should not exist goes against the natural order. A perversion of nature if you will. So technically every fantasy creature that is not a natural animal is in fact a monster (this includes elves, dwarves, giants, goblin, orcs, faeries & angels) so this argument is redundant.

 

[FunFuntomes]

look like a normal human vs how closely they look like a non human. Another one, human with animal ears isn't really a monster girl human with animal ears as well as having claws is because they no longer look that close to a regular human. It's like that whole furry scale meme, it's pretty much the same principle. At a certain point they are just humans with a quirk until they get something that makes them standout more. It's always been a factor of looks and not any sort of origin or character traits.

by your logiv Erevi'sdaughter is a human but Namaah isn't ?

so basically monster musume should be called human musume

 

[FunFuntomes]

Most of the girls don't have human legs and have scales of feathers or something.

a lamia is just a humna with a snake tail

 

[FunFuntomes]

Human with antlers, no. Human with deer legs, yes.

arbitrary
adjective
ar·bi·trary ˈär-bə-ˌtrer-ē -ˌtre-rē
Synonyms of arbitrary
1
a
: existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will
an arbitrary choice
When a task is not seen in a meaningful context it is experienced as being arbitrary.
—Nehemiah Jordan
b
: based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something
an arbitrary standard

 

[FunFuntomes]

I mean did I ever say what we are arguing about wasn't arbituary? Because it is, I'm pretty sure I aknodged that it was subjective where people draw the line. I'm just saying what's generally considered to be the standard on what is and what isn't a monster girl and it's always been about looks. Just like how people generally don't consider catgirls to be furries until you give them fur everywhere. Lamias are too drastic in apperance from a normal human to be considered anything, but a monster girl. Same with centaurs and Satyrs. But the traditional fantasy races? No not really, they look to much like regular people to be considered.


I was mostly opposed to bring Tolkienism and mythology as an argument for being a monster girl or not, and not just judging based on looks. If you want to consider orcs monster girls, then imo you need to consider all non humans to be monster girls..

fine... let's use the orc you posted as an example... do you see any inhuman characteristics?

 

[FunFuntomes]

tusks

and that's one trait, you missed the pointy ears

If you turn them gray they could pass for a dark elf.

if grandma could get a bonet she'd be grandpa

muscular green human.

unnaturally muscular

 

[storm1105]

and that's one trait, you missed the pointy ears

if grandma could get a bonet she'd be grandpa

unnaturally muscular

I didn't miss the pointy ears. That's why I said if you turn them gray they pass for a dark elf. They're not drastically different in apperance from humans or other humanoid fantasy races like elves or dwarves.


And that's not unnaturally musclar at all. Most stock barbarian type characters have that same body type.


And it's not like you can't find thinner female orcs on the internet. It doesn't really make a ton of sense to consider orcs monster girls, but not elves

 

[FunFuntomes]

I didn't miss the pointy ears. That's why I said if you turn them gray they pass for a dark elf. They're not drastically different in apperance from humans or other humanoid fantasy races like elves or dwarves.


And that's not unnaturally musclar at all. Most stock barbarian type characters have that same body type.


And it's not like you can't find thinner female orcs on the internet. It doesn't really make a ton of sense to consider orcs monster girls, but not elves

that's because in tolkien's lore orcs were elves corrupted bymorgoth

 

[FunFuntomes]

Yeah except the Peter Jackson orcs do look drastically different from orcs. Orc women like that I would consider monster girl. But 99% of the time when it comes to orcs in fantasy it's more like the picture I sent. She orcs especially, since people sexualizing them don't want them to look to drastically different and want them to look more like an amazon beauty

that is still your subjective opinion based on your atraction to she-orcs. we are talking abut orcs as a species and in most settings they are the result of unnatural interference that created monsters

 

[DomWolf]

I'm not really sure why you got into the "natural order" thing. That doesn't have anything to do with what I said. I said it's about how closely they resemble humans and they need to be something more than star trek level aliens to be monster girls. It's not about what you define as being a "monster" just like it's not about what their origin is. Anything else is overcomplicating it. The giantesses aren't monster girls because they're just really big humans, the elves aren't monster girls because they're just humans with pointed ears, and most orcs are just stocky or muscles green humans with tusks. I guess it's subjective where people draw, but it's mostly a scale on how closely they resemble a normal human. Angels vs Harpies

At this point I feel we need Tinkerer to way in & tell us cos this argument is getting g boring. You're point is based on SOME depictions of a race of souped-up Goblins created by an author that never existed before then & have been changed, used & represented by almost every fantasy creator that has followed. If Orcs arnt monster girls the Goblins are not monster either. End of story.

 

[DomWolf]

I didn't say they are human just that they look like them, but yeah Erevi's daughter isn't a mnster girl and Namaah is. You pretty much described exactly what I was saying.


As for monster Musume it's actually a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Most of the girls don't have human legs and have scales of feathers or something. They're all way further away from looking like a human than an Orc

But they are BOTH Succubi, ED is literally a clone of Naamah... you're logic is failing now

 

[DomWolf]

She orcs especially, since people sexualizing them don't want them to look to drastically different and want them to look more like an Amazonian beauty

You can make that argument for ANY mythical or Sci-Fi race ever created by horny nerds. Which most of us are let's be honest.

 

[DomWolf]

No it's really not. It's a pretty common complaint that female orcs tend to be fairly sexualized so they tend to look more like humans. And like I said earlier their origin is not relevant whether or not something is a monster girl. It's about how closely they resemble humans. Most female orcs are just like in this meme and are just green barbarian babes. And honestly it's just a thing with fantasy barbarians in general. Barbarian guys tend to be roided out and barbarian women are more like red Sonja

Ok so would u say Orc males are monsters? But the sexy Orc females are not Monster Girls? You cant have both there the same species dude

 

[FunFuntomes]

It's not about whether or not they're an actual monster it's about whether or not they look like a monster.

so zombies aren't monsters 'mkay

 

[FunFuntomes]

Whether or not a zombie is monster girl depends on how deformed she is. If she's just a human with an odd complexation she's not.

so you admit that a female orc is a monster girl