RPGM Pokémon 'H' Version [v0.597 C] [Sintax Error]

[Lewyn Collins]

Exhausting all dialogue and double-checking an NPC's options is a common feature in RPGs. You make it sound like you've never played one before.

Well to be fair, most people won't just speak to every single npc, much less check it twice. In pokemon specifically, npcs only have one dialogue. If they are trainers, they have 2: one before the fight, another after the fight. So it makes a lot of sense that this person missed those events.

 

[SINtax EroRR]

Well to be fair, most people won't just speak to every single npc, much less check it twice. In pokemon specifically, npcs only have one dialogue. If they are trainers, they have 2: one before the fight, another after the fight. So it makes a lot of sense that this person missed those events.

...That would make sense if Seras was just a common NPC, but she's not. She's an important supporting character who is also a romance option. So I personally do not agree with you. Even in the olden days of Chrono Trigger people would know that regular Townsfolk ≠ Named Characters.

 

[Lewyn Collins]

...That would make sense if Seras was just a common NPC, but she's not. She's an important supporting character who is also a romance option. So I personally do not agree with you. Even in the olden days of Chrono Trigger people would know that regular Townsfolk ≠ Named Characters.

Oh no, I agree with you. And that's how it is in most RPGs. However in pokemon, even the named characters tend to have only one dialogue when you speak to them. This happens to all rivals, gym leaders, antagonists... And while I agree that any rpg player (like me) should know better than not double-checking an npc, pokemon has always been an exception to this. That's why I understand what happened to that one guy. He probably forgot that in a fangame, things could be different.

 

[SINtax EroRR]

Oh no, I agree with you. And that's how it is in most RPGs. However in pokemon, even the named characters tend to have only one dialogue when you speak to them. This happens to all rivals, gym leaders, antagonists... And while I agree that any rpg player (like me) should know better than not double-checking an npc, pokemon has always been an exception to this. That's why I understand what happened to that one guy. He probably forgot that in a fangame, things could be different.

Alright, that's a fair point.

 

[Ruhrok]

Man, I didn't check the guide when I started playing the game, guess I'm just completely locked out of Sera's content since I didn't think to check if she randomly had new dialogue about a fight? RIP

the same happened to me, had to replay ~4h of content. and while i think the game IS worth it, it still would have been nice to have another way to reclaim a lost path. exspecialy in a game with limited save slots

 

[slykoru]

You double-check NPC dialogue when something new happens. If Seras had an interaction, or if another NPC mentions Seras changing in any way, check back. The idea that you should sporadically be running back to check all the possibly important NPCs for new content before having any events or hints happen is laughable.

Not only that but if you don't check a guide beforehand, what implies Seras is extremely important at the very start? 2 boilerplate "employee" dialogues and 1 single line about who Seras is as a person (like every other minor recurring character from every Pokemon game). "This lady told me about a door being off-limits, I suppose I should talk to her repeatedly, maybe she'll want to kiss me now."

The first gym leader had a striking custom sprite, speech quirk, and art. All hints to an important NPC, maybe we should be running back every 10 minutes to check if she has anything new to say, that would be excellent gameplay design!

 

[slykoru]

the same happened to me, had to replay ~4h of content. and while i think the game IS worth it, it still would have been nice to have another way to reclaim a lost path. exspecialy in a game with limited save slots

Sorry it happened to you as well my dude, I'm post 3rd gym now and personally not really willing to replay the entire game. Onto other ventures I suppose, maybe I'll check back sometime further in development.

 

[blubbervink]

You double-check NPC dialogue when something new happens. If Seras had an interaction, or if another NPC mentions Seras changing in any way, check back. The idea that you should sporadically be running back to check all the possibly important NPCs for new content before having any events or hints happen is laughable.

Not only that but if you don't check a guide beforehand, what implies Seras is extremely important at the very start? 2 boilerplate "employee" dialogues and 1 single line about who Seras is as a person (like every other minor recurring character from every Pokemon game). "This lady told me about a door being off-limits, I suppose I should talk to her repeatedly, maybe she'll want to kiss me now."

The first gym leader had a striking custom sprite, speech quirk, and art. All hints to an important NPC, maybe we should be running back every 10 minutes to check if she has anything new to say, that would be excellent gameplay design!

Buddy, its not that deep. Dialogue options can change cuz the engine allows for limited options. You just have to recheck once.
You make it sound like its the most frustrating thing in the world. XD

 

[SINtax EroRR]

You double-check NPC dialogue when something new happens. If Seras had an interaction, or if another NPC mentions Seras changing in any way, check back. The idea that you should sporadically be running back to check all the possibly important NPCs for new content before having any events or hints happen is laughable.

Not only that but if you don't check a guide beforehand, what implies Seras is extremely important at the very start? 2 boilerplate "employee" dialogues and 1 single line about who Seras is as a person (like every other minor recurring character from every Pokemon game). "This lady told me about a door being off-limits, I suppose I should talk to her repeatedly, maybe she'll want to kiss me now."

The first gym leader had a striking custom sprite, speech quirk, and art. All hints to an important NPC, maybe we should be running back every 10 minutes to check if she has anything new to say, that would be excellent gameplay design!

...Seras also has a unique sprite, is the ONLY character to have her Pokemon follow her around when she's idle, and has unique Colored dialogue to indicate her importance. On top of that, the changelogs also make it clear she's a Romanceable character. From my perspective, your argument is imploding on itself.

I really don't want to come off as rude or opinionated, since you're trying to be civilized as well, but I heavily, very heavily disagree with your assessment. It is not an issue with the game if the player ignores Changelogs, news and updates and assumes the game to be just like the mainstream games. So no, I DID drop hints that she's an important character, you didn't pick it up.

Regardless, not pursuing Seras is your loss, not mine. A lot of players seem to love her development. Maybe you can catch up on her character building in the Wikipedia.

 

[slykoru]

...Seras also has a unique sprite, is the ONLY character to have her Pokemon follow her around when she's idle, and has unique Colored dialogue to indicate her importance. On top of that, the changelogs also make it clear she's a Romanceable character. From my perspective, your argument is imploding on itself.

I really don't want to come off as rude or opinionated, since you're trying to be civilized as well, but I heavily, very heavily disagree with your assessment. It is not an issue with the game if the player ignores Changelogs, news and updates and assumes the game to be just like the mainstream games. So no, I DID drop hints that she's an important character, you didn't pick it up.

Regardless, not pursuing Seras is your loss, not mine. A lot of players seem to love her development. Maybe you can catch up on her character building in the Wikipedia.

Consider it from the perspective of someone who is downloading the game for the first time. Do you check the changelog of a game you just downloaded? What would be the point when you have no other context? From my perspective, the fact that you bring up the changelog for a player playing the game for the very first time means you don't even have an argument.

Consider when you have just started a game for the first time, does Seras have a unique sprite? Yes. But it's not really all the special (no offense, she's just like a lady with red hair). Even the first random female trainer you fight has a different sprite than usual, you don't know it's a repeat until later.

There's also the obvious difference between knowing someone is relatively important as a recurring character, and a primary "route".

I notice you also ignored everything about how braindead the idea of re-checking every potentially important character at random intervals is. Again, the first gym leader has a unique sprite and art, do you expect people to simply talk to her all the time in case she has new interactions? No. Because that's stupid. There is no argument here. I suppose if you consider it good design to have to revisit every potentially important character at random intervals with zero prompting for the possibility of new dialogue, we have such a differing view of reality that there's no discussion to be had.

Every other new dialogue/event either has relevant hints or a noticeable blinking star. Y'know, the way a human being making a game does it. The fact that this happens only a single time (at least so far post 3rd gym) implies you also have some idea what logical game-play is, so honestly this is a very weird hill to die on.

Regardless, I'm done arguing about what should be a very simple idea. GL on your game.

 

[blubbervink]

Consider it from the perspective of someone who is downloading the game for the first time. Do you check the changelog of a game you just downloaded? What would be the point when you have no other context? From my perspective, the fact that you bring up the changelog for a player playing the game for the very first time means you don't even have an argument.

Consider when you have just started a game for the first time, does Seras have a unique sprite? Yes. But it's not really all the special (no offense, she's just like a lady with red hair). Even the first random female trainer you fight has a different sprite than usual, you don't know it's a repeat until later.

There's also the obvious difference between knowing someone is relatively important as a recurring character, and a primary "route".

I notice you also ignored everything about how braindead the idea of re-checking every potentially important character at random intervals is. Again, the first gym leader has a unique sprite and art, do you expect people to simply talk to her all the time in case she has new interactions? No. Because that's stupid. There is no argument here. I suppose if you consider it good design to have to revisit every potentially important character at random intervals with zero prompting for the possibility of new dialogue, we have such a differing view of reality that there's no discussion to be had.

Every other new dialogue/event either has relevant hints or a noticeable blinking star. Y'know, the way a human being making a game does it. The fact that this happens only a single time (at least so far post 3rd gym) implies you also have some idea what logical game-play is, so honestly this is a very weird hill to die on.

Regardless, I'm done arguing about what should be a very simple idea. GL on your game.

Considering you clearly have no idea how the engine works and thus do not know what you are talking about, i will let you know its not simple.

 

[SINtax EroRR]

Consider it from the perspective of someone who is downloading the game for the first time. Do you check the changelog of a game you just downloaded? What would be the point when you have no other context? From my perspective, the fact that you bring up the changelog for a player playing the game for the very first time means you don't even have an argument.

Consider when you have just started a game for the first time, does Seras have a unique sprite? Yes. But it's not really all the special (no offense, she's just like a lady with red hair). Even the first random female trainer you fight has a different sprite than usual, you don't know it's a repeat until later.

There's also the obvious difference between knowing someone is relatively important as a recurring character, and a primary "route".

I notice you also ignored everything about how braindead the idea of re-checking every potentially important character at random intervals is. Again, the first gym leader has a unique sprite and art, do you expect people to simply talk to her all the time in case she has new interactions? No. Because that's stupid. There is no argument here. I suppose if you consider it good design to have to revisit every potentially important character at random intervals with zero prompting for the possibility of new dialogue, we have such a differing view of reality that there's no discussion to be had.

Every other new dialogue/event either has relevant hints or a noticeable blinking star. Y'know, the way a human being making a game does it. The fact that this happens only a single time (at least so far post 3rd gym) implies you also have some idea what logical game-play is, so honestly this is a very weird hill to die on.

Regardless, I'm done arguing about what should be a very simple idea. GL on your game.

Spoken by someone who doesn't know the limitations of the engine we're working with and how whatever you're suggesting either isn't plausible or easy to implement. So yes, I will die on this hill. Plenty of other people also played blind, and didn't share your experience. Not saying its invalid, but you're clearly holding your own opinion above everyone elses the way you're talking. You say I ignored your argument, and you have also ignored mine. (You conveniently ignored the extremely important detail of COLORED dialogue, which I've already established with Asha having red dialogue, and Seras having Magenta). As for your ludicrous suggestion of having to recheck dialogue.

"Again, the first gym leader has a unique sprite and art, do you expect people to simply talk to her all the time in case she has new interactions? No. Because that's stupid. There is no argument here. I suppose if you consider it good design to have to revisit every potentially important character at random intervals with zero prompting for the possibility of new dialogue, we have such a differing view of reality that there's no discussion to be had."

Yeah, I'm not even going to bother arguing. You make this argument, and yet none of the mainstream pokemon games up to the 3D ones have this system either. This is an RPG, a freaking RPG. Having players miss dialogue IS PART OF THE RISK, which makes getting the good stuff more rewarding. You're supposed to be proactive in searching out quests, NPCs and whatnot and look for dialogue options. According to your argument, Elden Ring is a shit game because all the NPCs are not trackable, have no quest cues or trackable quest lines, and have no indicator on the maps or exclamation marks above their heads to tell you to talk to them. Elden Ring also requires you to constantly talk to them to see if there's new dialogue options with NO indication whatsoever, similar to ALL the souls games. But oh shit, the souls series and Elden Ring is one of the most acclaimed games of all time.

So yeah, there is no argument to be had. We clearly have very different views on what good RPG design is. Good day.

 

[slykoru]

"Spoken by someone who doesn't know the limitations of the engine we're working with and how whatever you're suggesting either isn't plausible or easy to implement."

Have Asha add like, "I noticed Seras seemed to want something" (or whatever you want) at the end of her dialogue in the poke-mart. Or have another NPC do it. You literally have dialogue edits in your changelog.

The Elden Ring NPCs have new things to say when you do something important. They don't have new dialogue because you killed pleb trash mob #3. You also have reason to go back to the big important hub for various other things, not the worthless lab with zero other use.

But you're right, good day.

 

[Yanman252]

Is the lopunny event in the mall still bugged

 

[SINtax EroRR]

"Spoken by someone who doesn't know the limitations of the engine we're working with and how whatever you're suggesting either isn't plausible or easy to implement."

Have Asha add like, "I noticed Seras seemed to want something" (or whatever you want) at the end of her dialogue in the poke-mart. Or have another NPC do it. You literally have dialogue edits in your changelog.

The Elden Ring NPCs have new things to say when you do something important. They don't have new dialogue because you killed pleb trash mob #3. You also have reason to go back to the big important hub for various other things, not the worthless lab with zero other use.

But you're right, good day.

... This is going to be the final time I respond because by god, you're infuriating. Once again, you ignore and did not address my point regarding Colored text to indicate importance of character (not just Seras or Asha, but ALL romanceable female characters have a custom color associated to them.) But nevermind that.

In what context, does Asha telling you that Seras wants to talk to you make any sense, narratively? She battles you and then leaves, with her next destination being the Pokemart. Hell, Asha even says in her convo that she doesnt get along with Seras and thinks she's too uptight, making it even less likely that she would know Seras enough to give the player any indication of what to do. So in what sense would she tell you to go back and battle Seras? How would she know? Talking to Seras already shows the player that she isn't much of a trainer and really into battling, which helps set up part of her personality. So how and why would Asha know any of these, enough to tell the player to go back? But nevermind that. The Professor also makes it stupid clear that Seras will be assisting you on your journey. YOUR JOURNEY. Not in the lab, not that one time, not in a short run. JOURNEY, meaning long-term. Also, you're unhappy that I'm making you spend 2 seconds, 2. FREAKING. SECONDS. To interact with an NPC to see if there's new dialogue? Really? That's annoying and 'bad design' to you?

Also, let's address this point:

"The Elden Ring NPCs have new things to say when you do something important."

So? My game is the same. You only need to talk to NPCs after important events. Here's proof:

- Seras and Asha interactions at start of game, to show the player 2 potential romances.
- Seras and Asha interactions AFTER beating Gym 1, hence 'after doing something important.'
- Seras and Asha interactions AFTER the events of Nephillim forest, 'after doing something important.'
- Seras and Asha interactions AFTER beating Gym 2, 'after doing something important.'
- Seras and Asha Interactions AFTER beating Gym 3, 'after doing something important.'
- Seras and Asha Interactions AFTER beating Gym 4, 'after doing something important.'

The only exceptions to this is the Asha interaction as part of the Ranger Quest, and the Seras interaction if you don't offer to help her in Breezewind Town. And even that is on the player for not exploring and being proactive.

They don't have new dialogue because you killed pleb trash mob #3."

AND NEITHER DOES MY GAME? What exactly is your point here lmaooo? Not a single, SINGLE, important interaction between the player and the important NPCs have ANYTHING to do with beating trash mobs. Your argument literally collapses under itself by its own weight lol.

"You also have reason to go back to the big important hub for various other things, not the worthless lab with zero other use."

And since fucking WHEN have I required the player to 'Go Back' to the lab, ever? You literally can get everything done when stepping inside for the first time. Talk to Wormwood, get your mon. Interact with Asha and Seras and beat them both in any order you choose. YOU NEVER HAVE TO GO BACK. YOU ARE NEVER FORCED TO MISS ANYTHING IMPORTANT LATER DOWN THE GAME BY NOT GOING BACK.

Yet again, your argument literally collapses under itself by its own weight lol.

But yeah, based on your latest reply, it really isn't worth arguing any further. Your points are flimsy and stem more from your personal preferences and can be debunked with a simple side by side comparison. Good day to you sir!

 

[blubbervink]

Is the lopunny event in the mall still bugged

Shouldnt be for the past 2 updates....

Unless you reload a save outside of the event while being in the middle of it, that causes some issues that can be resolved if you enter the player's house. nothing we can do about that one.

 

[Yanman252]

Shouldnt be for the past 2 updates....

Unless you reload a save outside of the event while being in the middle of it, that causes some issues that can be resolved if you enter the player's house. nothing we can do about that one.

Cool cuz I'm at the point where I have to say yes or no.

 

[Lewyn Collins]

... This is going to be the final time I respond because by god, you're infuriating. Once again, you ignore and did not address my point regarding Colored text to indicate importance of character (not just Seras or Asha, but ALL romanceable female characters have a custom color associated to them.) But nevermind that.

In what context, does Asha telling you that Seras wants to talk to you make any sense, narratively? She battles you and then leaves, with her next destination being the Pokemart. Hell, Asha even says in her convo that she doesnt get along with Seras and thinks she's too uptight, making it even less likely that she would know Seras enough to give the player any indication of what to do. So in what sense would she tell you to go back and battle Seras? How would she know? Talking to Seras already shows the player that she isn't much of a trainer and really into battling, which helps set up part of her personality. So how and why would Asha know any of these, enough to tell the player to go back? But nevermind that. The Professor also makes it stupid clear that Seras will be assisting you on your journey. YOUR JOURNEY. Not in the lab, not that one time, not in a short run. JOURNEY, meaning long-term. Also, you're unhappy that I'm making you spend 2 seconds, 2. FREAKING. SECONDS. To interact with an NPC to see if there's new dialogue? Really? That's annoying and 'bad design' to you?

Also, let's address this point:

"The Elden Ring NPCs have new things to say when you do something important."

So? My game is the same. You only need to talk to NPCs after important events. Here's proof:

- Seras and Asha interactions at start of game, to show the player 2 potential romances.
- Seras and Asha interactions AFTER beating Gym 1, hence 'after doing something important.'
- Seras and Asha interactions AFTER the events of Nephillim forest, 'after doing something important.'
- Seras and Asha interactions AFTER beating Gym 2, 'after doing something important.'
- Seras and Asha Interactions AFTER beating Gym 3, 'after doing something important.'
- Seras and Asha Interactions AFTER beating Gym 4, 'after doing something important.'

The only exceptions to this is the Asha interaction as part of the Ranger Quest, and the Seras interaction if you don't offer to help her in Breezewind Town. And even that is on the player for not exploring and being proactive.

They don't have new dialogue because you killed pleb trash mob #3."

AND NEITHER DOES MY GAME? What exactly is your point here lmaooo? Not a single, SINGLE, important interaction between the player and the important NPCs have ANYTHING to do with beating trash mobs. Your argument literally collapses under itself by its own weight lol.

"You also have reason to go back to the big important hub for various other things, not the worthless lab with zero other use."

And since fucking WHEN have I required the player to 'Go Back' to the lab, ever? You literally can get everything done when stepping inside for the first time. Talk to Wormwood, get your mon. Interact with Asha and Seras and beat them both in any order you choose. YOU NEVER HAVE TO GO BACK. YOU ARE NEVER FORCED TO MISS ANYTHING IMPORTANT LATER DOWN THE GAME BY NOT GOING BACK.

Yet again, your argument literally collapses under itself by its own weight lol.

But yeah, based on your latest reply, it really isn't worth arguing any further. Your points are flimsy and stem more from your personal preferences and can be debunked with a simple side by side comparison. Good day to you sir!

Please don't tell me this is the guy I was defending the other day. Because if he is, my attempts to be compasive with his problems back then will now look like a waste of time and energy.

 

[Hodedra]

There is a FUCKING WALKTHROUGH linked to the first page, for goddamned sake.
If you go around without even looking it in the first place and missed something it's your own fault. You've been provided a map, and you chose to left it without reading.

 

[SINtax EroRR]

Please don't tell me this is the guy I was defending the other day. Because if he is, my attempts to be compasive with his problems back then will now look like a waste of time and energy.

I dont think its the same guy. But rest assured, you are right about this one. Waste of time and energy.