Porn Game Stories

[woody554]

but when they talk there's no emotions, and it kill everything.

that's a very good point, most of the games here are missing a lot the impact they could have with a little tenderness. and really it's even worse on the rendering side, people clearly don't understand what a huge difference it would make if your character touched the mc's forearm or face while saying something. they just stick their characters in a room standing apart, and even if they managed to write something emotional it's completely negated by the physical distance between the characters. or the camera is too far away. the body language and posing should always mirror the dialogue or you're gonna feel dissociated.

maybe not the best example, but that's something which always bothered me with big brother. I don't think any of the characters touched each other even once if it wasn't with the mc's dick. with some hugging and touching here and there the mc wouldn't have felt like such a sociopath. (it didn't seem like he was meant to be one. and even if he was, it would've given great contrast if other characters showed actual feelings.)

it seems to me a lot of people here have a strong background in comics. they should pay more attention how much this is used and even focused on in comics or animation. there's no reason why your renders shouldn't look as interesting as in a great graphic novel.

 

[Bilbael]

Its incredibly rare for porn games to have an engaging story. In fact, the discrepency between porn and adult games is so large that I don't even whip out my dick when playing things like BaDIK, CoBD, Acting Lessons, DeLuca Family, etc etc. They can edge you a bit towards release, but that's about it. We play these games for the story. The sexy ladies are just a very nice bonus. Porn games, on the other hand, are nothing if they can't get you to cum. Real hardcore fetishes or some power fantasy helps a lot in this regard. Needs good writing during sex scenes. None of that Ahh... ahh... harder.. Ohhh!

You are right, it's actually pretty much what I was thinking when I have written my porn game definition in my original post.

I also mentioned in one of my posts here that to have a good story you have to limit the number of characters.

What do you think?

When we take the example of today's porn videos, we find videos with different themes such as incest, defloration, etc. but these videos only have very few narrative elements. And they often include only 1 or 2 characters.

In the old porn movies (1h30 length), it was possible to include more narrative elements, but they were scarce. The focus was on the sex scenes. It was also rare that the main character fucks more than 3 different characters. It was usually 1 or 2 at most, with other scenes not including the main character.

Erotic novels have much better stories. They can build sexual tension between the characters, give them more depth, etc. but they focus their attention on the relationship between 2 characters, 3 maximum.

As stated above, any "porn" supports focus on 1 or 2 characters. Is a porn video game different? Maybe we should think there is two kind of porn games.
- The serious porn games, trying to include believable events and characters. Games such as Date My Daughter, Babysitter, Milfy City, Man of the House, etc.
- The not serious porn games, focusing on the fun, often humorous. Mostly 2D games because cartoon fits well with the genre. Games such as Summertime Saga, Milftoon Drama, The Pleasuremancer, etc.

If I talk about these two kind of porn games, it's because the not serious porn game can easily include different characters. We don't play these games expecting the story to be serious so we don't complain about the lack of believable situations and characters.

But when the Devs try to make a serious porn game, it's not possible to make something believable with so many characters. This fact include games such as Milfy City, Man of the House, etc.

In these games, except for the MC, all the other characters barely have any interaction with each others. Every character the MC can fuck in a game is a different story, these stories could actually have their own game focusing only on these characters.

It is possible to follow the same rules as a dating sim, once you choose a character relationship to pursue, the other routes are closed and you need to restart the game to follow another one. But it's a porn game we are talking about. Players want to fap. Accessibility is important.

But here is the problem, does a game focusing on 1 character will be appealing to most players? There are games such as Date My Daughter, even if there are other fuckable characters the story focus on the incestuous relationship between a father and his daughter, so I guess the answer is yes. But every players are looking for specifics stories/kinks, then it's normal most Devs prefer to make games with as many characters and kinks as possible.

Because of that, each characters lack depth, each stories are shortened. It leaves us hungry for more naughty situations with a specific character even when the game reaches its end. Or we get bored because of the lack of inspiration. That's why focusing the story on fewer characters should be the answer, but most Devs will not take this risk.

Now I would like to talk about something I often read here on F95zone, players mentioning how much they are tired to always see the same following incest story :
- 1 mother
- 1 older sister
- 1 younger sister
- 1 brother (the MC)

I know there are too many games following this trend, but it can cover some of the most popular kinks :
- The frustrated milf
- The sexy (older) woman difficult to get
- The cute and inexperienced younger girl
- Mother/son incest
- Sister/son incest

It's not original, but there are not so many solutions to include all these kinks. Some mentioned to include a third sister. I played games with a third sister, but often they add no additional value to the story.

After reading some answers here and there, I believe it's still fine to follow this trend, as long as the characters are well written, isn't it?

 

[thecardinal]

jhdu44nantes I generally don't even bother with games that have descriptions like that anymore. When the father figure is out of the picture (because he has to be) and the MR hasn't seen his family for years, and when the entire game's premise or hook is based on that, it gets old.

"Away at college your father mysteriously died. Now you must run his company and unravel the mystery. You have to move back home, and haven't seen your older+younger sister for years. One of them hates you, one of them adores you. Which one is which? What choices will you make? (Hint: there are no choices and you are about to get railroaded)."

It's been done, the variations have been done, I even tried a variation myself a few years ago, it's been done to death. I really hope Milfy City is this trope in it's death throes.

 

[Bilbael]

jhdu44nantes I generally don't even bother with games that have descriptions like that anymore. When the father figure is out of the picture (because he has to be) and the MR hasn't seen his family for years, and when the entire game's premise or hook is based on that, it gets old.

"Away at college your father mysteriously died. Now you must run his company and unravel the mystery. You have to move back home, and haven't seen your older+younger sister for years. One of them hates you, one of them adores you. Which one is which? What choices will you make? (Hint: there are no choices and you are about to get railroaded)."

It's been done, the variations have been done, I even tried a variation myself a few years ago, it's been done to death. I really hope Milfy City is this trope in it's death throes.

True, but Incest son/mom + brother/sister is still what most players seem to be looking for when playing porn video game.

 

[khumak]

jhdu44nantes I generally don't even bother with games that have descriptions like that anymore. When the father figure is out of the picture (because he has to be) and the MR hasn't seen his family for years, and when the entire game's premise or hook is based on that, it gets old.

"Away at college your father mysteriously died. Now you must run his company and unravel the mystery. You have to move back home, and haven't seen your older+younger sister for years. One of them hates you, one of them adores you. Which one is which? What choices will you make? (Hint: there are no choices and you are about to get railroaded)."

It's been done, the variations have been done, I even tried a variation myself a few years ago, it's been done to death. I really hope Milfy City is this trope in it's death throes.

Well some variation of pretty much every conceivable theme has already been done before. IMO it's more about the execution. I think the best games are the ones that pick a few themes that go well together and really dig deep into those and really show us why the characters involved are into that. I think the why is as important as the what. For an incest game I think it's even more important because there should be some semi plausible reason for them to overcome that taboo. It doesn't have to be an ironclad case, but your sister is not going to jump you just because she saw your dick a few times. And creeper scenes don't count. Nobody is going to sleep through you face fucking them unless they've overdosed on drugs or something.

I would also rather see some in depth scenes and story involving a small number of well developed characters than a bunch of casual hookups with random characters nobody cares about. There should be enough character development for me to form some sort of emotional attachment to each character. Doesn't matter if it's positive or negative but it shouldn't just be a neutral reaction.

 

[thecardinal]

True, but Incest son/mom + brother/sister is still what most players seem to be looking for when playing porn video game.

I have nothing against these games or those that still play them, but that seems like some confirmation bias to me.

Well some variation of pretty much every conceivable theme has already been done before. IMO it's more about the execution. I think the best games are the ones that pick a few themes that go well together and really dig deep into those and really show us why the characters involved are into that. I think the why is as important as the what. For an incest game I think it's even more important because there should be some semi plausible reason for them to overcome that taboo. It doesn't have to be an ironclad case, but your sister is not going to jump you just because she saw your dick a few times. And creeper scenes don't count. Nobody is going to sleep through you face fucking them unless they've overdosed on drugs or something.

I would also rather see some in depth scenes and story involving a small number of well developed characters than a bunch of casual hookups with random characters nobody cares about. There should be enough character development for me to form some sort of emotional attachment to each character. Doesn't matter if it's positive or negative but it shouldn't just be a neutral reaction.

I am still not going to play a game with that premise until it's been in development for a while and I've heard good things from people. If they put minimal effort and originality into the premise, I'm going to assume they did the same with the game.

 

[Bilbael]

With an incest story involving the whole family it is difficult to write a credible story, I think. Most of the time in these games, as I mentioned it, each character the MC can fuck has its own story. Its not one big incest story, it's many different incest stories in one game.

I don't think it's that difficult to find reasons for the incest to happen. If the incestuous relationship between the MC and the sister/mom is well written, I don't see any problem. My problem is to see the MC trying to fuck all the girls in the game, his two sisters, his mother, his aunt, his friend, etc. I mean, for what good reasons?

It's not like all these girls were interested with the MC in the first place. It's the MC who "seduce" all these girls. Unless playing an evil character I find it hard to believe that the MC think it is normal to fuck everyone. Especially when the Devs try to write credible (realistic) stories, it is kinda an immersion breaker to me.

Then when the Devs don't want a "Max" (Big Brother) as MC they avoid interactions between the characters. Each fuckable character its own story. And that is an immersion breaker as well.

 

[khumak]

I think some games can be intentionally over the top and get away with not being that believeable as long as it seems obvious that the game isn't trying to be serious or the setting makes the over the top nature make sense. Like the hazing and rituals in Being a DIK for instance. You could never get away with most of the stuff in there in a typical game about a supposedly normal person's life. But during hell week in a frat or some comparable setting that makes sense.

That's the sort of game where you could do something normally ridiculous like say a cat fight that ends with the 2 girls in a 69. As often as that sort of thing hits the highlight reels in my dreams I'm pretty sure it only ever really happens in a strip club or a porno or whatever. That doesn't mean I don't want to jump through whatever hoops I need to to make that dream come true though

 

[Bilbael]

I wonder if players will be fine with a porn game where you have a bunch of characters you can pursue a relationship with, but once you pick one, the other routes close. Like in some Japanese dating simulators.

In games like Milfy City, etc. you have multiple characters to have sex with, relationship to develop, etc. and I don't know how you guys play your games, but I often tend to finish a route before starting another one. Then is that so different than starting a new game with another character?

Or maybe I am the only one annoyed to see a character fucking every girls around without any impact on the other relationship. To see the main character never mentioning that he is dating many girls at the same time, even less feeling anything about it. In most games, if not all, there is no narrative elements about the main character fucking everyone.

 

[RanliLabz]

I wonder if players will be fine with a porn game where you have a bunch of characters you can pursue a relationship with, but once you pick one, the other routes close. Like in some Japanese dating simulators.

In games like Milfy City, etc. you have multiple characters to have sex with, relationship to develop, etc. and I don't know how you guys play your games, but I often tend to finish a route before starting another one. Then is that so different than starting a new game with another character?

Or maybe I am the only one annoyed to see a character fucking every girls around without any impact on the other relationship. To see the main character never mentioning that he is dating many girls at the same time, even less feeling anything about it. In most games, if not all, there is no narrative elements about the main character fucking everyone.

Dating sims are popular in their own right - whether Japanese or LoP-types - but players tend to go for those as 'short bites' rather than play them as full sandbox games or VNs. Those are often quite long, and asking players to play multiple times for different characters seems a bit of an ask (especially the sandbox ones which involve a lot of skill or inventory building that would necessarily be repeated on each play-through). I guess I'd say - if you like dating-sims, stick to dating sims rather than other adult games.

As far as one character's impact on other relationships - it's all about the variables. Let's say you have the bare minimum of 6 fuckable characters, then the possible combinations are 720 (if my shitty maths is right). That's a lot to program in, even if you're only doing it at set points like an internal monologue or a confrontation... and that's just the coding. The dev then has to write whole dialogues for each personality type with associated renders - e.g. Tina's full on tsundere jealousy, Maggie's up for a threesome, Linda's upset, Marley's negged into putting out, etc. And then the MC has to be presented with a whole bunch of choices for navigating the situation.

Now, I'd happily play a game where harem management was more about the girl's personalities - how to cheat without getting caught, how to manage jealousy, how to corrupt them into groupsex, etc... but I'd never take on the challenge myself as I don't have the resources (and this is from a dev with a pretty complicated set of content triggers).

 

[woody554]

Now I would like to talk about something I often read here on F95zone, players mentioning how much they are tired to always see the same following incest story :
- 1 mother
- 1 older sister
- 1 younger sister
- 1 brother (the MC)

After reading some answers here and there, I believe it's still fine to follow this trend, as long as the characters are well written, isn't it?

I believe so. looking at their easily largest fanbases it seems clear the overwhelming majority is totally on board. way way way more than any other basic setup. if you write a story with the mc living at home without incest it'll be instantly requested. it's like the 'warrior, rogue, priest, mage' -setup of every group adventure movie/series ever made. it just works.

also just like you pointed out, from the writer's perspective it's just so compact and easy setup, everything is already in place. you don't first have to bring those people together under one roof with a mindnumbingly boring car ride, like so many games that try to break the mold.

that's why my conclusion is that the problem isn't really the generic incest house setup but the fact that 99% of them are grindy as fuck, die early at v.0.3 with no action except pointless throwaway pussy, and give zero feedback on whether you're grinding the right way or if you're just stuck in a bugged loop or missed a trigger. after you've grinded through 10 of those and been let down every single time, you're not really too optimistic over seeing another one.


of course that doesn't mean you HAVE TO use the setup, by al means if you have another idea go ahead. but to dismiss the most successful setup against all data available is just silly.

 

[woody554]

Or maybe I am the only one annoyed to see a character fucking every girls around without any impact on the other relationship. To see the main character never mentioning that he is dating many girls at the same time, even less feeling anything about it. In most games, if not all, there is no narrative elements about the main character fucking everyone.

that is a tough nut to crack. I think we all hate it. but the main problem is the combinatorial explosion, the number of factors you need to take into account grow exponentially. and as our renders are 'hard coded' it's tough to generate the variations. (you could code an animation system and use only standard poses, but it would also make every sex scene identical action with different sprites. doable, laborous, outcome kinda dull.)

but I think you can fake it a little bit. have a small number of interaction between character arcs, and a very limited number bonus scenes or variation renders based on it. also maybe getting caught closes some routes forever. the effects of jealousy don't have to affect EVERY scene afterwards, just a couple to put the idea into your head.

the opposite way people often avoid it, where the women are totally fine with you fucking everyone, I just hate it. it's too easy. it makes me lose interest in the character. even just pretending the women never find out about the others is less of a let down for me. I can suspend my disbelief if I'm not reminded of it, but I struggle with the free pass. at least the woman telling me it's okay should mope a little. give her a frownie face every time she's 'fine' with you fucking other people. 1 variable 1 render, not too bad.

 

[Bilbael]

Those are often quite long, and asking players to play multiple times for different characters seems a bit of an ask (especially the sandbox ones which involve a lot of skill or inventory building that would necessarily be repeated on each play-through).

Right, forgot about the stats and inventory. I was actually not convinced myself when I wrote this idea. Because like I said in a previous post : in a porn game players want to fap, porn content accessibility is important.

As far as one character's impact on other relationships - it's all about the variables. Let's say you have the bare minimum of 6 fuckable characters, then the possible combinations are 720 (if my shitty maths is right). That's a lot to program in, even if you're only doing it at set points like an internal monologue or a confrontation... and that's just the coding. The dev then has to write whole dialogues for each personality type with associated renders - e.g. Tina's full on tsundere jealousy, Maggie's up for a threesome, Linda's upset, Marley's negged into putting out, etc. And then the MC has to be presented with a whole bunch of choices for navigating the situation.

Nah, a game doesn't have to have so many combination to be interesting, even with 6 characters. There is going to be more variables for sure, but if 6 characters is too much, then do it with fewer characters. In a Visual Novel like Zero Escape games, you have 9 characters and 20 different ending (branch tree), characters will interact differently with each other based on your choices. Not every choice you make will impact the relationship with the characters (even less all at once).

but I think you can fake it a little bit. have a small number of interaction between character arcs, and a very limited number bonus scenes or variation renders based on it. also maybe getting caught closes some routes forever. the effects of jealousy don't have to affect EVERY scene afterwards, just a couple to put the idea into your head.

Exactly, your message came up when I was writing this one

I believe so. looking at their easily largest fanbases it seems clear the overwhelming majority is totally on board. way way way more than any other basic setup. if you write a story with the mc living at home without incest it'll be instantly requested. it's like the 'warrior, rogue, priest, mage' -setup of every group adventure movie/series ever made. it just works.
...
of course that doesn't mean you HAVE TO use the setup, by al means if you have another idea go ahead. but to dismiss the most successful setup against all data available is just silly.

First, thanks for agreeing with me, and next, based on what you said, what kind of incest story settings can we imagine?

- The MC is the son : X number of sisters, 1 mother and a father absent or not.
- The MC is the brother : X numbers of sisters, mother and father not included for X reasons.
- The MC is the son, but living with step family : X number of step sisters, a step mother and a father absent or not.
- The MC is the step brother : X number of step sisters, mother and father not included for X reasons.
- The MC is the son, but living with his aunt's family : X number of cousins, 1 aunt, an uncle absent or not.
- The MC is the father instead of the son : X number of daughters and a wife.
- The MC is the uncle living with his niece : X number of nieces (usually one only)

If it doesn't have to be "incest", but still everyone living under the same roof, then we can also imagine..
- The MC is a young adult living with a friend's family : X number of daughters, a mother and a father absent or not.
- The MC is an old adult living with a friend's daughter : X number of daughters (usually one only) and a wife or not.

What else?

 

[Bilbael]

By the way, do you guys think it's normal that you can have sex with all the NPCs present in the game? I don't remember any games with non fuckable characters, except male characters of course. I know it's going to be more work for the Devs, but it will also make the game more immersive.

 

[woody554]

based on what you said, what kind of incest story settings can we imagine?

I tend to think those are just two different cases, the mc is either the father or a son.

I don't think it really changes any dynamics if you interchange mom with aunt, step-mom, mom's friend or even an unknown older woman. if you live under the same roof and there's 'sisters' whose relationship to the older woman is motherly, it'll play out as incestuous. even without sex, if there's clear undertone of sexual tension. (tons of movies use that). could probably even play out like that in a workplace with unrelated people, if only the power dynamics are that of a family. even with just a couple with a large age gap.

it only changes if the 'son' doesn't play the 'son role'. like if he's the authoritative 'adult' in the relationship with an older woman.

obviously the level of taboo is different in all those cases, and thus the guilty pleasure of engaging in it. but not the family dynamics.

maybe this is also why the incest games where the son is a retired combat vet or a secret agent or something feel so flat to me. even if it's blood related it just doesn't have the impact when the son is the authoritative head of the family. it demotes the mom into just another woman.

although I guess that wouldn't be a problem for those who have the little sister kink, which I don't have.

 

[woody554]

By the way, do you guys think it's normal that you can have sex with all the NPCs present in the game? I don't remember any games with non fuckable characters, except male characters of course. I know it's going to be more work for the Devs, but it will also make the game more immersive.

I don't know about that. I think it's 99/100 just cutting out work you don't need to do. I'm sure you CAN have non-sex characters.

in fact I've sometimes even wondered if a non-sex mom char in an incest setup would work as an infinite source of tension. like not a platonic mom, but make her NEVER give into corruption/seduction. just won't happen, no matter how much you show your big dick in the shower, do yoga or rub sunscreen on her big tits. you could even name the game something like: "Mom's off limits", "You'll never have my Mom", "Mission impossible: Mom". also tell it from day one, there will NEVER be a sex scene with the mom.

 

[Bilbael]

in fact I've sometimes even wondered if a non-sex mom char in an incest setup would work as an infinite source of tension. like not a platonic mom, but make her NEVER give into corruption/seduction. just won't happen, no matter how much you show your big dick in the shower, do yoga or rub sunscreen on her big tits. you could even name the game something like: "Mom's off limits", "You'll never have my Mom", "Mission impossible: Mom". also tell it from day one, there will NEVER be a sex scene with the mom.

You mean a realistic mom

 

[Fliptoynk]

If you wanna make an incest novel that's perty close to realism, the characters should be cousins... Or siblings separated at very young age due to divorce and will be reunited later on and the girl grew up in some sad backwater town in mississippi (teen pregnancy is rampant there but I can't blame'em if you live in a cavern by the swamp with nothing much to do other than play with themselves at puberty).