Possible problems of copyrighted content on free game

[anonimasta]

Hello. Having been inspired by the various VNs I've been playing from in and outside of here I began creating one of my own as a (secret) hobby/side project to potentially being released here (if by some miracle I even get there on this lifetime XD). Thing is, as I write the script and come up with ideas for scenes, more often than not I do it while picturing the "soundtrack" to said scene.

I know that eventually some of the resources used to make this kind of VNs (such as "alternatively aqquired" assets for DAZ 3D) end up breaking it anyway. Sound-wise, however, pretty much all of the music I recognize on said type of games, is royalty free (I've heard "Sneaky Snitch" in at least 3 different ones) which makes me ask: why? Is it because those games are being funded and using non-royalty free music gets them a lot of heat? Is it because there is some kind of disadvantage appeal-wise to using other kind of music (as in feeling somewhat jarring during gameplay)? Or is simply it because music was an afterthought later in production?

I'm mostly seeking opinions from VN devs with any experience but I appreciate any given attention.

 

[Avaron1974]

The music industry is rabid in pursuit of any breach of copyright.

There are numerous cases of people being taken to court for downloading a handful of songs. One woman being fined 1.5 million leaving her in practical life long debt up to people being sentenced to jail.

It's also one reason sites like this don't touch games from the triple A industry. It's unwanted legal attention.

They chase Youtube videos with copyright music on them and indie games.

It all depends on whether the dev minds a multi million dollar fine and/or jail time.

 

[c3p0]

Or you could official acquire the rights to use the music in your game.
This will, of course, cost you money (and I think much more than you're want to spend) and time to acquire the rights in the first place.

How much it's cost, how great the difficult and how slime the chance of success is, that's a whole other set of questions. I can think some of the musicians out there would even let you use them music without paying anything at all (additional to all the royality free music) and some wouldn't let you use their music in an adult game.

Therefore, as written previously, is not much of a choice in regard of I like this music better than the non-royality free ones, but rather the music is royality free, so I can use it without much of a hassle or the possiblity to be depth down in a lawsuit which I can't win.

 

[Akamari]

Another thing to mind is that not all royalty free music is actually free to use. Some is, some isn't. There may still be one time license fees required.

I have no idea how royalties would work with Patreon as nothing is actually being sold.

 

[polywog]

A work-around...

Adobe Flash allows developers to source streaming audio, from youtube for example. Since youtube has gone commercial, many record companies are putting their copyrighted music online. So your game can access whatever music is available, through legit sources, without stepping on anyone's toes.

Python compatible....

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Bitter Strawman]

Kevin MacLeod is love.
Kevin MacLeod is life.

 

[Bitter Strawman]

FMA is good to search some music. It allows to find free tracks that are suitable for commercial purposes.

 

[anonimasta]

I understand that the music industry is especially... "sensible" on these matters hence the question. Even if you were able to invoke Fair Use, when it comes to content of this nature, it is understandable that most of the creators prefer anonimity over any kind of dispute. Kinda fucked up, if you ask me, that many probably had to compromise their vision in order to simply have their creation exist without worrying about some label coming after them.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Adobe Flash allows developers to source streaming audio, from youtube for example. Since youtube has gone commercial, many record companies are putting their copyrighted music online. So your game can access whatever music is available, through legit sources, without stepping on anyone's toes.

Except that life don't works like this.
Music available on YouTube are licensed, mostly over what is called the "standard YouTube License" (Section 8 of

You must be registered to see the links

) or a CC license, for average users, and over a more complicated license for artists and Major Companies. Only the CC license can perhaps (depend of which one is chosen) give you the right to use YouTube as source for the sounding of another program.
Using YouTube as source to play any song from any more or less know singer/group, is the best way to face the justice twice. Once because the rights owners for the song will want to meet you there, and a second time because YouTube will really dislike that you mess with them and the hard works they did to have an agreement with the artists and Major Companies.

 

[Avaron1974]

I understand that the music industry is especially... "sensible" on these matters hence the question. Even if you were able to invoke Fair Use, when it comes to content of this nature, it is understandable that most of the creators prefer anonimity over any kind of dispute. Kinda fucked up, if you ask me, that many probably had to compromise their vision in order to simply have their creation exist without worrying about some label coming after them.

There is no "fair use" when it comes to the music industry.

They go for anybody including gaming content creators that have licensed music in clips they show, best example being Grand Theft Auto, some gaming youtubers have had content ID strikes over songs played for a few seconds on the car radios in game to the point where they had to mute the audio or lose all revenue or take down the vid completely.

The one and only time fair use works in music is with parody because it's transformative and even then it's thin ice.

As I said, they are rabid and won't think twice about leaving students with millions of dollars of debt or sending people to jail. It happens a lot.

Downloading music for your own use is one thing but don't ever get caught trying to make money off anything with licensed music or they will fuck your arse raw with a spiked strapon.

 

[polywog]

Except that life don't works like this.
Music available on YouTube are licensed, mostly over what is called the "standard YouTube License" (Section 8 of

You must be registered to see the links

) or a CC license, for average users, and over a more complicated license for artists and Major Companies. Only the CC license can perhaps (depend of which one is chosen) give you the right to use YouTube as source for the sounding of another program.
Using YouTube as source to play any song from any more or less know singer/group, is the best way to face the justice twice. Once because the rights owners for the song will want to meet you there, and a second time because YouTube will really dislike that you mess with them and the hard works they did to have an agreement with the artists and Major Companies.

Life works for those of us without mental handicaps. Linking youtube videos is not a problem.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[anne O'nymous]

Life works for those of us without mental handicaps. Linking youtube videos is not a problem.

Well, "those of us without mental handicaps", like you say, know the difference between "playing a song" and "sharing a link to a youtube video". Do you want me to explain it to you ?

 

[Avaron1974]

Life works for those of us without mental handicaps. Linking youtube videos is not a problem.

You must be registered to see the links

Those are for non commercial use and none of them have a definitive answer. You linked a couple of people answering a question on a forum, it's not exactly something i'd stand by for quite possibly life damaging legal matters.

 

[polywog]

Those are for non commercial use and none of them have a definitive answer. You linked a couple of people answering a question on a forum, it's not exactly something i'd stand by for quite possibly life damaging legal matters.

You can read the TOS yourself,

You must be registered to see the links

even if your game is commercial, you are only linking, you are not redistributing. make sure your script will not allow the user to ddos youtube

 

[anne O'nymous]

You can read the TOS yourself,

You must be registered to see the links

even if your game is commercial, you are only linking, you are not redistributing.

It's neither linking nor redistributing, it's broadcasting.

You can do four things with a YouTube (or other site) video :

• You can link to it.
  It mean that you put a link to the page where the content is. That's what you did when you pointed to the ToS of YouTube.
• You can include it as part of something else.
  It mean that this time you don't use a link to the page where the content is, but one that point directly to the site's player. It's what happen when you put a YouTube video here.
• You can redistribute it.
  It mean that you downloaded the video, then put directly the mp4 file at disposition to everyone.
• You can broadcast it.
  It mean that you take the audio/video stream from YouTube, and play it on your own application without using the site's player ; whatever it's your own player or a third party one.

Among those fours possibilities, only the first two are legals, the others aren't. And it happen that the advice you gave, as well as the tool you linked to, fall under the broadcasting part, since it rely on an external media player to play the content.
Also note that the question/answer you used previously as proof that you where right, explicitly talk about the inclusion of a video. The most detailed answer even say that it's "

You must be registered to see the links

". Therefore it don't talk about the same thing than you.

The only way for OP to legally use copyrighted song as soundtrack on his game, without having to pay royalties like any broadcast service do, is to put a link, and just a link to the right song, asking for the player to listen it while the scene play.

 

[polywog]

There are numerous cases of people being taken to court for downloading a handful of songs.

The Supreme Court has since ruled differently. Currently the law says that simply downloading does not violate copyright.
Note that when using P2P networks you are doing more than just downloading, you are uploading as well, which may violate copyright.

The court compared downloading a movie to "sneaking into a movie theater without buying a ticket" you may be committing a different crime, but downloading and watching a movie without permission does not violate copyright.

The court also opined on linking to illegal material. Google and other services could not exist if they had to verify every link they provide. Linking is simply saying "the bank is on the corner of 5th and elm st" by posting a link you are not telling someone to rob the bank.

The only way for OP to legally use copyrighted song as soundtrack on his game, without having to pay royalties like any broadcast service do, is to put a link, and just a link to the right song, asking for the player to listen it while the scene play.

Indeed. By linking to legit sources provided by the copyright holder, and or their authorized agents (what I said originally)
what you failed to understand was that links can be automated by scripts. Youtube does not discriminate against the blind, you can "listen" to youtube (mp3 vs mp4) you do not need to "watch" youtube links.

 

[anne O'nymous]

The Supreme Court has since ruled differently.

Assuming you talk about the US Supreme Court, and not, by example, the

You must be registered to see the links

, it mean absolutely nothing for the, near to 7 billions (7 000 000 000), people who don't live on a land that is part of, or administrated by, the USA. According to the surveys that come time to time here, around three quarters and two thirds of the members aren't US citizens/residents. So stop seeing Rights and Laws from your sole point of view. Especially when you fail to understand both, or try to push them as universal rules that only dumb don't know about. You end being the one that looks like a fool, especially when you try to insult your opponent.

The court compared downloading a movie to "sneaking into a movie theater without buying a ticket" you may be committing a different crime, but downloading and watching a movie without permission does not violate copyright.

Then why the Supreme Court ruled, in September 2018 so very recently, that
"

You must be registered to see the links

" ? Oh, yes, it's the Canadian's Supreme Court, not the US one. But apparently from my side of the world, Google don't heard that the Supreme Court of some country ruled this, so do you have a link, please ? Not that it mater anyway, but I'm curious.
Because, yes, it doesn't mater. Yourself state that they never said that it's something legal, just that it's another crime. It imply that it's still something illegal that must not be done if you don't want problems ; like, by example, being kicked out of Patreon and be left without funding for your game devel process, while potentially being sent to face the Justice because of your crime.

Indeed. By linking to legit sources provided by the copyright holder, and or their authorized agents (what I said originally)
what you failed to understand was that links can be automated by scripts.

Yeah, I was a really bad net/security administrator who didn't know the obvious, that why I did it during (more or less) ten years only. But well, it change nothing to the fact that you clearly don't understand the difference between "linking" (using an URL to point to a content available on a network) and "broadcasting" (diffusing, in your own application, the stream from a content coming from an external source).

 

[polywog]

@anne O'nymous

 

[anne O'nymous]

@anne O'nymous
View attachment 256995

I have to decline, I'm not sure that my vaccines are up to date.

 

[polywog]

I have to decline, I'm not sure that my vaccines are up to date.

Well, once you've taken your meds, perhaps you'll change your mind.
At least you've conceded that a game dev who provides links to youtube, is not in any way bound by youtube's TOS
so that's a start.