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Chad54321

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Uhhh.... that's something to think about, Dragon Age etc carried it forward to their sequels but you could just choose the "canonical start" as there's a canonical set state for their universe too.

Maybe we could add in something after you finish the game that shows what the canonical choices are and the choices you made.

We have ideas for sequels. My idea would involve Scylla and going to Ohmes and be a side scroller with an open world going location to location and would be directly connected. Arbuz wants to set something further into the continent in a still contested region maybe like the fringes of northern Pyri and area north of that and be more of an RTS game. Arbuz' idea would be pretty disconnected with everything from Avarice and the comic if I remember correctly.
Maybe you could take it in on in other ways too.

For example; you could make a short story depicting what happens if you pick to go with samara to wherever she goes like the The Sundered Archipelago or novencia, to see what happens to them there, and maybe a divergent story where he didn't go with her.
Or you can make a direct sequel for redics adventure that can be called Price for Freedom: Malice where he picked to go with lady wolf to Atlathka and was instrumental in creating her criminal empire, I think that could be easier then making a completely new game since you already put the effort into the game design and engine for it.
Or you can make an interactive map that shows all the events that happen across time in the world of avarice.

Ultimately its yours to do with as you please, but I think there are many things you can do both in and out of game form, with a good story anything is possible.

PS: sorry if I didn't get the lore right, the wiki site doesn't have a lot of completed information in it and there isn't really a world map so... yeah.:ROFLMAO:
 
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Valaska

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Maybe you could take it in on in other ways too.

For example; you could make a short story depicting what happens if you pick to go with samara to wherever she goes like the The Sundered Archipelago or novencia, to see what happens to them there, and maybe a divergent story where he didn't go with her.
Or you can make a direct sequel for redics adventure that can be called Price for Freedom: Malice where he picked to go with lady wolf to Atlathka and was instrumental in creating her criminal empire, I think that could be easier then making a completely new game since you already put the effort into the game design and engine for it.
Or you can make an interactive map that shows all the events that happen across time in the world of avarice.

Ultimately its yours to do with as you please, but I think there are many things you can do both in and out of game form, with a good story anything is possible.

PS: sorry if I didn't get the lore right, the wiki site doesn't have a lot of completed information in it and there isn't really a world map so... yeah.:ROFLMAO:
There will be after-credits rolls for characters and where they ended up etc, like the old Fallout games. They won't be short story length... well, I shouldn't say that I don't PLAN them to be short story length haha. They might end up but yeah. Sequels yeah still up in air what we might do later, mostly just fun theory crafting and spitballing. But that would be a neat idea, helping Lady Wolf build. And yeah there would be definite benefits to recycling the same mechanics.

An interactive map for our wiki would be super cool. I was filling the wiki out before my hands started to hurt, they are a bit better now so I should get back on it!
 
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Chad54321

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There will be after-credits rolls for characters and where they ended up etc, like the old Fallout games. They won't be short story length... well, I shouldn't say that I don't PLAN them to be short story length haha. They might end up but yeah. Sequels yeah still up in air what we might do later, mostly just fun theory crafting and spitballing. But that would be a neat idea, helping Lady Wolf build. And yeah there would be definite benefits to recycling the same mechanics.

An interactive map for our wiki would be super cool. I was filling the wiki out before my hands started to hurt, they are a bit better now so I should get back on it!
Sounds like you have a lot to keep busy!
And hey, if you're ever in the need for title ideas I've got a few good one, on the house ;).

Price for Freedom: Diligence

Price for Freedom: Vigilance

Price for Freedom: Vengeance

Price for Freedom: ReVengeance :WeSmart:

Price for Freedom: Retribution

Price for Freedom: Immemorial

Hope this helps out!

On a different topic, what was the world of PfF like in ancient times?
I mean, in the current world modern times humans and elves are almost indistinguishable except for a few small differences.
But what were the first elves like?
How did they come to be?
What happened when the elves and humans met each other for the first time? Did they wage war or did they make peace? (history suggests the former.)

I always imagined it like the game, Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura.
A world that was once full of magic and fantasy, but slowly over time started to industrialize and change.
I think it could add a lot of weight to the lore, like when you guys created the history of the way the ohmes unification happened.
 
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Valaska

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Elves and Humans share a common root ancestor before the two broke away and evolved down different routes. What the root common ancestor was we haven't fully hammered out but they were long eared and humans lost the longer ears and more developed hearing organs/balance for more discrete and protected ears/hearing.

Humans and Elves after being separate met again quite a long time ago, we haven't worked out what happened at that point but I imagine it was something akin to Neanderthal and humans where it wasn't too explosively violent and integration happened in certain regions. Elves and Humans still have some locations distinct from one another with more centralized civilizations having blends.

There are other branches on human evolution too, Giants, Ohmish, Novencian (Dark Elf), Ogre, and we're playing with whether we have more or not.

Our magic is quite a bit "Lower" tier than Arcanum outside of "Demonic Magic" which is pretty hard to formalize. Here, magic and technology, often are the same thing. Magic is a storage of energy and a power source. So you get Magilock, Spell lock etc firearms which are technology using magic to solve for issues they didn't have answers for OR to improve upon underlying technology.
 
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Chad54321

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Elves and Humans share a common root ancestor before the two broke away and evolved down different routes. What the root common ancestor was we haven't fully hammered out but they were long eared and humans lost the longer ears and more developed hearing organs/balance for more discrete and protected ears/hearing.

Humans and Elves after being separate met again quite a long time ago, we haven't worked out what happened at that point but I imagine it was something akin to Neanderthal and humans where it wasn't too explosively violent and integration happened in certain regions. Elves and Humans still have some locations distinct from one another with more centralized civilizations having blends.

There are other branches on human evolution too, Giants, Ohmish, Novencian (Dark Elf), Ogre, and we're playing with whether we have more or not.

Our magic is quite a bit "Lower" tier than Arcanum outside of "Demonic Magic" which is pretty hard to formalize. Here, magic and technology, often are the same thing. Magic is a storage of energy and a power source. So you get Magilock, Spell lock etc firearms which are technology using magic to solve for issues they didn't have answers for OR to improve upon underlying technology.
That does beg the question, what was the reason for the evolutionary divergence?
The main reason the Neanderthals and Humans split was because of the ice age, which the Neanderthals were more suited to survive in.
After the ice age ended, Neanderthals ultimately died off because their bodies couldn't be maintained because of their increased need for caloric energy, since Humans were more adaptable and their genes more dominant they eventually won out on the evolutionary line.

So maybe there could be other reasons why Humans and Elves diverged; Like bone structure: Elves could have been more lithe while Humans were more stocky.

Hearing: maybe Elf hearing is a double edged sword, maybe they can hear better but are more sensitive to sound so they can become deaf faster, and if their ears are damaged they have lesser hearing.
So maybe Human divergence was to protect their hearing for long term sustainability.

Adaptability: Humans could have been faster to adapt but Elves incorporated themselves more heavily into their environments like Dark Elves, Island Elves, Pale Elves etc.

Birth rates: fertility differences could be a thing since if Humans were the off shoot, then they managed to match, if not surpass Elf numbers.

Social: Elves themselves could be more isolationists that develop distinct cultures from each other, where Humans tend to congregate into bigger city's and nations like Ohms.

So after a while, many Elves could have decided to join Human settlements for a better chance at prosperity, and after centuries of intermingling became more similar to each other to the point of being near identical.

For ogres, it makes sense if they were the offspring of giants rather then vice versa, how they came to be could be numerous.

Saurian and Lamia race ancestors seem pretty obvious, and they probably shared similar events to Human and Elves in terms of evolution.

Also lets not leave out the possibility for magical evolution, given that the Aeyl are essentially a magical mutation that occurs to every species.


As for magic and technology, feels like as advancement would progress, and magic would become more redundant and expensive, the use of technology would become more commonplace.
If for the price of one magilock you could get three flintlocks, I imagine that when it comes to equipping an army numbers like that can turn the tide of battle.
So it feels like unless magic can progress to match that, it would be relegated to the wealthy and for more custom works.

As for "demon magic"?
That's a different beast entirely, gonna need a bit of time to gather my thoughts about it.

Hope to hear your thoughts on this!
 

Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
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Potentially at one point in ancient pre-history humans and elves had a division that led to humans losing their ears due to climate and temperature. Ohmish for example have muscle parity between men and women due to their northern climate and extremely harsh location where they were expected to fulfill similar roles.

More or less elves and stock humans are pretty much on parity now and have existed beside each other in close proximity for quite some time. Island Elves definitely have a more specific adaptation to their environment doing deep diving, maneuvering on rocks, and then later ships like outriggers etc. Novencian dark skin might be an adaptation to their northern climate and retaining heat. Pale elves as I remember are mixbred with humans.

Novencia and Elven societies are pretty large too. Novencia is as large as Ohmes, if not more populous. The Sultanate (Working name, haven't decided yet) is huge and technically where Redic is from, sort of lol. Einad is an autonomous region but still part of the Sultanate.

Yeah we had a genetic tree and Ogres are the progeny/descendent of Giants, Giants are very limited in number. How Giants originally evolved we haven't worked out, but they currently to this day farm livestock that supplies them a ready sustainable source of protein... originally it was a big'ol land slug kind of thing!

Sauria are interesting in that they are capable of interbreeding with most all the other sentient species. Scalekin like Aya or Kimber come from a pairing of Saurian and Elf for instance! Magic in the setting has a definite effect on things, Aeyl were an example of direct action and changes/alteration by specific design to try and out-compete Mournish Warslaves by an Ohmish noble house, altering Zarha and Humans/Elves.

Magic is expensive but its energetic storage is incredibly efficient... so it will likely never go away, and while you can mass produce flint lock, having a repeating rifle at this stage in technology puts you at a huge advantage and that advantage will likely carry over into the coming eras. Magic might even become more mass-producible too, but cheaper less advanced stuff for sure will bea ble to be made in larger bulk for cheaper.

Demonic Magic can almost be more like other fantasy settings but it has to be learned on a case by case basis by the individual. It can't really be effectively or reliably reproduced. And it is extremely dangerous for non-demonic entities to dabble with it. Though the Zahra and some Ohmish noble houses practice and use it fairly extensively.
 

Chad54321

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Dec 2, 2019
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Adaptation generally works on need to not need situations, in cold and cloudy weather you will have paler skin to survive the cold, in warm and sunny weather you will have darker skin so your skin wont burn so easily and withstand the heat better, and in extreme weather you will have stronger bodies so they can last longer and survive better, like the Ohmish.

To need better hearing would mean that you live in an environment where NOT hearing better would mean your death: like forests, jungles, or anywhere that is heavily populated by predators.
forests would also makes sense, since the Proto Elves would need better balance to climb trees to avoid predators or find food.

The early Humans probably moved to to more flat lands where you generally see what's coming like the plains, meadows or desserts, so they didn't need better hearing. Maybe the early Humans developed better eyesight to compensate for a lack of better hearing, or denser bones to make up for a lack of better balance.
I say this because it doesn't make sense for Elves to be just better then humans without compensating for anything in terms of biology.

I cant really say much about Novencia since there isn't really a lot of lore I've seen to theorize about, except for the demon cults.
Although that could explain the Dark Elves, long term exposure to demons and demon magic could have turned their Elven ancestors skin dark, eyes red and hair to a silver white. So maybe the more you get away from central Novencia, the more varied Dark Elves become.

I find the Suaria very interesting.
Since they are cold blooded, them living in cold environs could spell a lot of health problems for them, from getting sick to straight up DYING. So I wonder how Hiho plans to deal with that when she gets to Ohms, I can only imagine her wearing a giant sock on her tail to stay warm lol.

This is the first time I've heard of the "Sultanate" so ill take your word for it. Though lets be honest, if a military nation says they are autonomous, you don't have a choice in the matter. You either agree or you get invaded.
Anyways, it would be great to get more background into Redics life, cause if I'm guessing correctly, I don't think the red vagrants were bandits. Besides, I love the story updates, the last one spoiled me :LOL:.

Now demons and demon magic...
To start, I don't think you can classify them as a race, a species or even as proper living beings. Demons are like a force of nature, coming into the world out of nowhere and existing suddenly and then becoming anything; A rock, a tree, an immortal anomaly of geometric shapes that would probably outlast the entire universe.
They essentially ARE demon magic, born from it and molded by it, for them using it is like breathing.
That's why I think the term "essence magic" is inaccurate, because it not really magic. Its an entirely different plane of existence, trying to draw power from that would be like attaching a battery(person) to a lightning rod and hoping when lightning(demon magic) strikes the battery wont explode. Asking demons to teach you also feels pointless, because its like a fish trying to teach a person how to be a fish. You either drown trying, or you're flopping in a lake, looking like an idiot.
Ultimately I find demons to be truly alien, something from another plane of existence that no one truly understand, maybe not even demons themselves. Like the warp from Warhammer 40K.

As for the Zahra and Ohmish demon magic users, I would ask what the general mortality rate is, cause I'm guessing it might be high...

(Did it! man, this one took a while!)
 
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Valaska

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Yeah, I like your ideas on adaptation to the environment, some great suggestions I'll probably follow tbh. For benefits to losing the larger ears would be they were in colder climates where more flesh = ouchy. Humans likely have a few smaller benefits over elven people, but more or less we have them with parity in general which allows them to integrate with one another better and avoids one side being an overall victor over the other. So it allowed them to meet each other more as equals where their cultures matched and enmeshed.

Hmmm, it might be the better explanation for Novencians actually, to go the way you've theorized. Ohmish are also very exposed to demons but never really developed a religious deference to them. They view them more as natural order entities in general.

Saurians aren't strictly cold blooded, it's more Luke Warm blood similar to dinosaurs, so they are much more vulnerable to the cold and for sure will die to exposure far earlier than mammals. So yeah she will need something like a big'ol tail sock or something haha.

Yee so basically Einad and the Sultanate were the same thing before it transitioned to Sultana away from a Khanite. Einad retained its culture and norms in the transition and the new Sultana recognizes the importance of Einad as a gateway to potentially hostile entities such as Lucia, Pyri, or even the Order. Einad acts as a bulwark. Einad mostly refers to the city but there are a few towns and villages that fall into its region, scattering the banks of the freshwater lake of Einad. There's also a few mining settlements in the mountains that are considered part of their territory. The Sultan prefers to leave the east to its own devices and focus on trying to reform the sultanate itself.

Well... there's actually a library curated by a demon in Ohmish territory who will actually teach things, even demonic magic. Noble houses of Ohmes each have some knowledge as part of a working deal where Ohmes protects the library in its territory but still allows outsiders to enter and treat with the demon there, as it wishes for knowledge and wants to gather it from abroad.
 
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Chad54321

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I assume you're talking about the black library, home to Sisikh, the Ugly librarian. I always wondered something, is Sisikh in the library, or is it the library?
Is it like Hogwarts, where he is like a sentient building that can expand, reorganize and can use demon magic to move books and shelves etc. And it has people that tend to it and to seek out knowledge and information and to protect it, so it formed a sort of city state around it to achieve that.

And like I said, it could try to give then information about demon magic, but I don't think it could actually teach them demon magic. Since demons don't really think about demon magic that way they couldn't really be very good teachers, maybe they can teach theory about demon magic, but not something practical like application of it. It would be like if you gave me a schematic on a thermonuclear engine; id be like "great! …what do I do with this?" even if I could build it, I wouldn't be able to use it without blowing up every light in my house, the lights in this case being my Body. Even so, I doubt it would stop many from trying. Maybe they'd find ways to better channel it, like carving or tattooing runes on their bodies to better connect themselves to the other dimension, or maybe going through magical conditioning so their bodies can better survive the surge in power?
Lots of possibilities could exist!

I think Novencians are probably more connected to demons then the Ohmish, while the Ohmish probably do interact with demons, Novencians practically raise demons. That did get me thinking...:unsure:
Could the demon exposure have made the Dark Elves more capable of using demonic magic? A connection to demons and the other dimension that only they can use, so could the connection itself could be more than skin deep?
Perhaps there is something like a subsect that wishes to use demons as agents of change rather than simply raising them to be as such, so they embrace their demonic heritage and use demonic magic in a way only they can?
This could also fuel the prejudice that other Dark elves have against demons, where they see them as a curse on their people, that the demons corrupted them and that they are trying to control or enslave them, so they keep their names hidden from them so their soul cant be corrupted much like their bodies.

As for Einad, I foresee some trouble between the Sultanate and Einad in the future.
As the Sultanate starts to cement itself, Einad would probably demand that they get a bigger seat at the table or a bigger input in how everything runs, considering that they are essentially the wall and arm that keep the Sultanate safe. And depending how the Sultanate reacts to it, it could get messy, potentially leading to a civil war. But that's just my hypothesis on it.

Also I don't mean to be rude. Just wanted to make things a bit clearer.
considering the lack of a world map, and no proper geolocation explanation.
I, well...
I don't know where East of anywhere is.
 
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Valaska

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Black Library is a working name atm, I have always been against that name due to... well, GamesWorkshop will skullfuck us. But the answer is "yes." It's not really a city-state though, as Ohmes would not tolerate a foreign entity claiming territory on its homefront, even post-fracture.

The Graffs for example were taught demon magic to bind and bond stone, reinforcing it, allowing them to make massive foundation bricks out of multiple stones bonded together to stabilise them. Their know-how and experience then goes to knowing how much to bond together locking huge pieces together in key and lock style even with some iron reinforcement. This is what allows Ohmes to build entire cities at very high elevations connecting mountains with bridges. Other noble houses have their own knowledge given to them by Sisikh, each guarding their secrets from the other but back in the old days, using them to shore up and strengthen each other.

That would be an interesting hook on Novencians, and wouldn't really conflict with anything we have set out yet. Novencia is a very advanced nation in terms of science, magic, and economy. Of course, they benefitted from Ohmes uniting Novencia and ending its seventy years war, and then acting as the island's military so they could focus on more academic and trade ventures. Novencian demonic cults view demons as the manifestation of certain aspects, ie, their purposes that seem to bind and guide a demon's motivations and development. But for sure mistrust is from seeing the harm they can do so there's a ebb and flow. Names is a superstition of Novencians, Ohmish people freely introduce themselves by their name to a demon if they come across them lol. It also is why The Order has attempted to invade Ohmes three times now... they made it a bit into the land bridge the first time, the crusades to follow were so devastating that The Order is mildly terrified of pissing Ohmes off now and treated with the former Emperor to offer concessions and benefits trying to convince Ohmes to go on demon purges. The Arcades family converted but failed to get the political capital and will to turn the other houses away from the benefits of demons, like Sisikh... and later maybe one of the demons in our game ;).

But yeah I will take what you said about Novencians and suggest and bring the idea up. It doesn't conflict with anything and it does help us explain something I had made on shakey grounds (darker skin to retain heat similar to seals and penguins lol).

Einad and the Sultanate are in an extremely precarious situation where the Sultan wants to reject and destroy the past and reshape power/culture into something more akin to what The Order, Novencian Kingdoms, and others did to control its people and territory. Einad is fairly content with its territory... and if anything will likely spread eastward with time... but the Sultan will most likely with time demand some of the bread basket fertile croplands that the region has spent so much time and effort importing soil and digging irrigation over centuries. The real danger is that Einad retains the old ways and culture and completely refuse to budge on their tradition even if they politically play ball and even pay tithes to the Sultan. But... the war will probably not go well for the Sultanate, they'll definitely be capable of pushing them back to the city of Einad but at that point their hitting one of the most fortified settlements out there, matching Pyri's Umbregada or even the Winter Rose City of Ohmes... or Coventry of Ohmes, or Twin Pillars of Ohmes, maybe not Twin Pillars tbh that place is a nightmare to assault. Einad's eyes are turned east for expansion though, Pyri is fairly weakened.

Also I don't mean to be rude. Just wanted to make things a bit clearer.
TCH! HOW RUDE! You leave me NO CHOICE.

grandmap-details.png

This map is in no way final and is completely working. It has been shared publicly but it honestly is just an internal resource realistically. And yes, Arbuz has no idea how to spell "Ohmes." He thinks it's Ohm lol. He thought the people were Ohmes, but they are Ohmish. Island Elves' will likely be cut down in scope/span, a lot of grey has to be decided, I soundly reject the location of the Library and I will see it moved deeper into Ohmes, Zahra Exiles are just a few small settlements and not entire territories like listed.

Some names will be changed with time, Redlands and Sultanate need to be edited a bit. Novencia is NOT connected to the mainland by a bridge that is a channel of water so has to be erased. Personally I want the Library relocated to its original intended position, the island between Ohmes and Novencia.
 
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Chad54321

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Thank you for listening!

Well, the Black Library could be a synonym for its actual name.
For example, the library's name could be: Sisikh's Obsidian Athenaeum, but since no one can remember that, they simply call it the Black Library. Also GamesWorkshop cant touch you unless you lifted the concept STRAIGHT from one of their games, they don't own the name itself, just the concept of what they made. Also when I said city state I mostly meant self sustaining, and somewhat autonomous.

So demon magic can be used somewhat safely when done passively or in very nuanced ways, but my query is on its use in more direct forceful ways, like when the Zahran shaman blew that guy up, it felt like she herself almost blew up instead.
So I was wondering what it would take to make something like a demon mage shock trooper, like the idea I had of a Novencian demon mage cultist that function like traditional mages and wizards in terms of power.

So was Novencia a part of the Ohmish Empire like an independent vassal state, or are they just really good ally's?
I think mistrust might be putting it a bit lightly, considering Nameless seems to Absolutely DESPISE demons and anyone working for them. And I question the sanity of some of these demon cults if they're willing to try to guide demons like "The Devourer" (the demon that Mara came with).
Also, how many demons actually exist? Given the Order and other mistrustful nations how many could actually survive?

So was that the reason Cade Anemas rebelled? Considering that the entire Arcades line got annihilated, as well as most of the Anemas line, could that have been what the Order was hoping for? To weaken Ohmes to the point where they would be too weak to resist, or try to create a schism so they could start a civil war and get Arcades to be the leading influence?
Makes me wonder if it would even be possible for an Ohmish reunification. And yeah... it wouldn't make sense for them to get rid of Sisikh or...
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When you say that they want to "destroy the past and reshape culture." what exactly are they trying to destroy?
and unless they replace it with something that people can identify with and give people something that they actually want its just going to make people resentful and disloyal.
Its like the real life CCP. Sure, you control everything. But everything is corrupt, everyone is demoralized, and nobody cares about the nation.

In terms of warfare Einad probably has an ace up their sleeve.
Since they are probably one of the most if not the best military forces in the world, they can probably develop something akin to strike teams...:unsure: Train them, Disguise them as bandits and have them attack supply lines, infrastructure and other critical targets. And while the Sultanate tries to keep pressure on Einad, they would be unable to repel the invasion in their very door step.

As for the map... yeah, you're right. It looks way better on the island, and Siskh would have probably chosen it for its seclusion and proximity.
Also, a few important things to remember about geolocation nation craft.
1. Trade
2. Allies
3. Warfare
4. Access

Making sure that trade wont get interrupted by other nations is crucial, keep trade flowing to keep the money rolling!

If your allies have enemies, then you have enemies. And always make as many allies as you can, especially if you're landlocked!

Never get outclassed in Warfare, always keep up! And if you cant? Diversify! They have archers? Get horses. They have horses? Get spearmen. They have spearmen? Get archers. Adapt tactics to fit your location, never let the French invade Russia in winter!

From oceans to mountains, deserts to jungles. Roads are the veins your life blood flows through! When making settlements, colonies or shipping routes, always make sure you can reach and protect them!

All in all, you've all done a really good job. Keep it up!
 
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Valaska

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For example, the library's name could be: Sisikh's Obsidian Athenaeum, but since no one can remember that, they simply call it the Black Library. Also GamesWorkshop cant touch you unless you lifted the concept STRAIGHT from one of their games
Unfortunately, they ran a trademark on it and the function is fairly similar. , in our setting, the "Black Libary" refers to the fact the library is black. So we'll need to rename it but yeah in common parlance people could say Black Library but we 1000% need a different name haha. Arbuz picked it without being too aware of the name in GW.

So I was wondering what it would take to make something like a demon mage shock trooper, like the idea I had of a Novencian demon mage cultist that function like traditional mages and wizards in terms of power.
Yeah something like that is definitely feasible, but it is a very high level proficiency skillset so it would be likely wasting a very adept mage to do it. So they'd need to be supported by other infantry and such of course, but it is do-able. Cultists could make a good source for people who may be familiar with it.

So was Novencia a part of the Ohmish Empire like an independent vassal state, or are they just really good ally's?
I think mistrust might be putting it a bit lightly, considering Nameless seems to Absolutely DESPISE demons and anyone working for them. And I question the sanity of some of these demon cults if they're willing to try to guide demons like "The Devourer" (the demon that Mara came with).
Also, how many demons actually exist? Given the Order and other mistrustful nations how many could actually survive?
Ohmes originally invaded Novencia's west in an effort to train and blood its army to prepare to expand into an empire... which it did, but it did far to efficiently and effectively. Novencians had a "no prisoner" form of warfare before Ohmes, the West vs East wards of Novencia got... very fucking fucky. Novencians "sacrificed" a large group of peasants and some pleb royals by having them last stand, the pleb royals then tried to surrender to let their men get away.

... and then the Ohmish just, kinda let them surrender, disarmed them and even let some of the men return home. Which stunned Novencian society, so more and more started to surrender and even treat with them. Ohmish ethos with war is to avoid death and destruction when possible and to keep shit intact. Fatigue and a losing war against the east, western Novencia willingly bowed to Ohmes and were even throwing them victory parades and celebrations as they would get to the next city they expected to siege.

Ohmish forces don't even sack or raze cities, they are extremely professional. So basically their invasion turned into a bit of a vacation. West would capitulate and come to agreements with Ohmes, Ohmes and the west would face off and invade the east, and the east would capitulate and join Ohmes as a united Novencia.

Novencia retained a small but completely free-from-interference eastern coast while the rest of the nation was a protectorate under Ohmes but largely ran itself. They'd pay Ohmish tax rates which were... frankly more fair than Novencian tax rates, and would enjoy some of the more "progressive" social ideals and structures Ohmish culture would bring.

Ohmes respected Novencian's duelists and Chevaliers. CertainOhmish fell in love with Novencian haute culture in its wasteful decadence and extravagance. Novencian academic science would pull many areas where Ohmes stagnated several decades forward, medical science between the two would reshape the understanding of medicine across most of the world.

The two nations are by other cultures referred to as the lovers. Novencian slipped into a comfortable relationship with Ohmes, leaning on her in times of need for stability when dissent or instability struct Novencia, and Ohmes benefitted amazingly from the trade and diplomatic ties Novencia would go on to establish with other nations. That, and Ohmish men and women fetishized Novencian women and men... and vice versa. Novencians have a thing for the "stoic brute" stereotype of Ohmes.

Ohmes has been dealing with demons since its infancy and they simply view demons as neutral. Some are bad, others are good, even beneficial. The demon cults raised a few eyebrows, but they understood it in general. Novencia already paid them enough watchful eyes to be careful enough to avoid any catastrophic disasters. As for number... it'd be hard to pin down as many demons will simply be imperceptible from normal shit in the world even. There would be a lot of them, but not many make it into the later stages.

So was that the reason Cade Anemas rebelled? Considering that the entire Arcades line got annihilated, as well as most of the Anemas line, could that have been what the Order was hoping for?
Cade was oldschool. He and his ilk believed Ohmes was an empire and it needed to expand and assert itself globally to honour its tradition and stay strong. To make a future. The late emperor Arcade was yielding territories, it attempted to return Novencia to... Novencia, which most Novencians rejected even. He planned to separate public education from the military academies and drop all colonies.

The reason? He saw the way Lorum collapsed on itself. He feared that Ohmish continuing as a warlike people and war-state would lead to them to turn to infighting. Would the world rise up to oppose Ohmes? Would its own people fall to savagery? Would they turn on one another when not sated? Arcades feared Ohmes being forever paired to war, and sought to change it. Sought to introduce a parliament, represented leadership, yield her colonies back to the natives and, ironically, become more like the Novencians had become. He saw The Order and the Mournish armies as their answer to protection and converted, etc. Anemas, Graff, and many noble houses soundly rejected this.

I can't confirm or deny if Ghbrd had a place in all this............

When you say that they want to "destroy the past and reshape culture." what exactly are they trying to destroy?
The Sultan wants to become sole ruler and authority figure, and abolish the Khanite of Sakhan, ilkhan, and other leaders that would weigh in and have domains within. Wants the populace disarmed and untrained for warfare and to rely mainly on levies and mercenaries. He wants a more "conservative" culture as well... as Einad etc is a bit hedonistic in some fun ways. They're doing it mainly with strong armed reformations, though the people who pledge to this new way do stand to benefit.

Since they are probably one of the most if not the best military forces in the world, they can probably develop something akin to strike teams.
Yeah Einad already does that haha. It's something they and Ohmes are very well known for, camouflaging troops, digging in and hiding, hitting people from behind, or their baggage trains. Ambushes, sabotage, they're adept at being fighty shits and sneaky shits. Ohmes for instance laid big ass spinning chain traps to wipe out the warslave charges of The Order, magick wound and capable of maiming legs of several ranks.

And yeah for sure! We try to keep mind how the nations exist along with each other. Pyri for example got bifurcated and some of the traditional Zahra land was forcefully given back to them by surrounding nations to broker a peace but also weaken the state in perpetuity... because everyone hates Pyri lol.
 
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Chad54321

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Dec 2, 2019
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Hey, I gave it some thought and I realized something, Cold weather probably wouldn't have created Humans... Because snow rabbits exist. The Proto Elves probably would have developed more fur and/or floppy ears to compensate for it.
However... areas with large gale winds could have had a factor in it. For example, the shrieking winds could hurt the hearing of the early Humans, forcing them to forgo better hearing for more protected hearing and other traits. So that could be it.

Yeah something like that is definitely feasible, but it is a very high level proficiency skillset so it would be likely wasting a very adept mage to do it.
Maybe they could wear specialty pain coats, they could be conditioned so they no longer feel pain, maybe they could learn how to teleport in short bursts so they can infiltrate behind enemy lines and sow chaos, much like the Qunari mages from dragon age.

Novencia already paid them enough watchful eyes to be careful enough to avoid any catastrophic disasters.
…Then why didn't they put it down? I mean for god sake, that thing was just eating everything, INCLUDING THE WOMEN! (god, those poor girls.) And after Mara started becoming the favorite, it just killed everyone! Maybe I could understand if it was still in its formative stage, but at that point it was pretty much fully grown. So I have to question if everything there was on the up and up if they let THAT happen.

The late emperor Arcade was yielding territories, it attempted to return Novencia to... Novencia, which most Novencians rejected even.
Wow... Arcade was kind of an idiot. If he had wanted to transition Ohms into a more peaceful society he could have gone about it slowly for years in over a dozen different ways. Used Novencian philosophy and education to temper the Ohmish ways (they were already joined at the hip so it wouldn't be a far fetch for them.), he could have focused the military for more defensive purposes so they could solidify what they already have, hell, he could have TALKED to Cade to find a middle ground so none of this would have happened ( wouldn't be the first time it happened in Ohmish history). But no. He got terrified, and instead of correcting the nation out of crashing, he decided to press the ejection button SO FAST that the plane exploded.

Which begs the question... how the hell did the Anemas lose this? If the Arcades rule was so unpopular, his decisions so extreme, why didn't the rest of them just swallow their pride and say "well... THAT was embarrassing, lets just sweep this under the rug" and just restore the Anemas to the throne to avoid a similar fracture?

Hmm... maybe Ghbrd was involved.

The Sultan wants to become sole ruler and authority figure, and abolish the Khanite of Sakhan, ilkhan, and other leaders.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Sultanate is going to lose this one. Their plan is just untenable. If both the Sultanate and Einad are expanding at an equal level, while Einad is probably sabotaging the Sultanate covertly to hamper their growth, while they expand and consolidate themselves, then they aren't going to win this way. If this was 'Civilization' and I was the sultanate, id probably go for a culture victory instead.
Also what is the history behind Einad? Considering it was Redic's home, id be curious how he grew up there.

Zahra land was forcefully given back to them by surrounding nations to broker a peace but also weaken the state in perpetuity... because everyone hates Pyri lol.
Shit, what did Pyri do to piss them off so much?
Also, I'm Confused. From the game it looked like the Zahara were losing the war, so how did they manage to broker a peace by getting their land back?
 
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Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2017
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…Then why didn't they put it down? I mean for god sake, that thing was just eating everything, INCLUDING THE WOMEN! (god, those poor girls.) And after Mara started becoming the favorite, it just killed everyone! Maybe I could understand if it was still in its formative stage, but at that point it was pretty much fully grown. So I have to question if everything there was on the up and up if they let THAT happen.
The devourer was at a stage where the professionals can deal with it in the event it gets out... provided they find/catch it. Though it might evade its pursuers, but Mara survived after all. They are more the first responders rather than watching all the time, and some places might escape observation long enough for things to get out of hand. But trust outside of extreme circumstances they're going to be able to put most demons down. Novencia has existed alognside them for... a logn time now.

Wow... Arcade was kind of an idiot. If he had wanted to transition Ohms into a more peaceful society he could have gone about it slowly for years in over a dozen different ways. Used Novencian philosophy and education to temper the Ohmish ways (they were already joined at the hip so it wouldn't be a far fetch for them.), he could have focused the military for more defensive purposes so they could solidify what they already have, hell, he could have TALKED to Cade to find a middle ground so none of this would have happened ( wouldn't be the first time it happened in Ohmish history). But no. He got terrified, and instead of correcting the nation out of crashing, he decided to press the ejection button SO FAST that the plane exploded.

Which begs the question... how the hell did the Anemas lose this? If the Arcades rule was so unpopular, his decisions so extreme, why didn't the rest of them just swallow their pride and say "well... THAT was embarrassing, lets just sweep this under the rug" and just restore the Anemas to the throne to avoid a similar fracture?

Hmm... maybe Ghbrd was involved.
Arcade was very advanced in age, in his mid-seventies with no heirs, as the Ohme he was married to ascend to the throne, exiled herself shortly after. His next wife bore him two sons, who promptly kicked the bucket in their infancy due to sickness. Likewise said sickness took his wife from him as well. Natural causes not poison or anything and happened quite a long before Arcade's end. Time was running out and Anemas were next on the throne, as no Arcade alone could hope to claim the throne over an Anemas... or an Ohme, but at that point all of the Ohme line was/are absent.

Arcade was not without supporters. Tullis, fairly high in stature and popularity wholly supported Arcade's plans, as well as many of the eastern noble houses excluding the southeast of course (Graff and Anemas). His rule was a time of great providence in terms of wealth, academia, and agriculture. Him fearing his time was coming though hastened his hand and tried to switch over.

There was no middle ground to be found in Cade. Cade was, by all reports, a warhawk. Excessive by Ohmish standards even. But many respected his name and his strategic acumen. Among the greatest Ohmish strategists. A respectable duelist too, but nothing like his uncle or eldest son. Graffs are also sworn to the Anemas. There have been a few unions of Anemas and Graff through the years. And these two constitute two of the largest houses... but don't forget the Arcade and Tullis are two of the richest and most prosperous houses, providing much of the buckwheat, wheat, tubers, and other agriculture.

And also something fomented divisions between some of the houses, causing four ideologies and two allegiances to form.

Also what is the history behind Einad? Considering it was Redic's home, id be curious how he grew up there.
A very martial society with libertine values and... fairly accommodating. The highest respected jobs are its professional soldiers and those industries that directly supply them, as well as a healthy degree of respect to those who literally feed them and clothe them etc. Einadians wake to the joyous revelries of its academy's patrols and sleep among lover(s) in good drink and hearth. Neighborhoods band together and raise children, make sure they have a packed lunch, and send them off to the academy for their schooling. Its three military academies are huge points of pride where many are educated and some even housed and raised in two of them.

But they also have public schooling for trades, and trade programs to ensure men and women have options. But it's no secret how pivotal their mercenaries and troops are to their prosperity. Not to mention the fact it makes a shit ton of grains, vegetables, and fruits grown by its farmers. Barley, einkorn wheat, masses of it. Einad exports and uses much of these profits to pay for its military.

It also has a college specifically for academic pursuits in scribes, scholars, physicians and such. Though well funded it's much smaller than any of the military academies and was constructed when Einad was at its most prosperous... it is seeing a bit of a resurgence, especially with the mercenary wars going on on the borders of Pyri. Which Einad really hates lol.

Frequent festivals! Stone homes carved into the cliffs and plateaus of the main city, other buildings made from the stone quarried from those constructions... acacia trees and their flowers scenting the summers. Regular rains roll in from the mountains and its rainy season is capped with a nude mud run and wrestling festival! Its clays and ceramics are famous the world over, too. Her leaders expect the best, and they give the best, led by the current ilkhan and "sub ilkhans" it secretly keeps despite the Sutlan's express wishes for that not to be the case.

Redic's life isn't the most typical for those from Einad. He had insane expectations from an extremely strict father. Though this can often be the case when children are pressured to live up to military legacies and great smiths, Redic's father was stricter than most.

The military isn't as entwined with everyday life as Ohmes, but it can be seen everywhere. They follow their old gods, their old customs, and old traditions. Einad is a snapshot of the Sultanate's history. Harkening back to a time when husbands and wives were unions of those who wished to have a higher bond than those others they may take as nightly trists of passion and unite their estates together. A time when celebrations were plenty, drinking was public, and joyous merriment was the expectation and not a taboo. Where at a moment's notice the populace could take up arms and form a formidable fighting force if threatened.

Einad was pivotal in stopping the Rotten King, tides upon tides, waves, an ocean of undead breaking upon her sword and shields failing to break through the great cliffs of Einad while Ohmish troops in Pyri fought, scorched earth, withdrew, and fought again until hey wore the armies of the undead down... Einad stood its ground there, on the spot, and stopped them firm. they paid for it in blood but were showered with riches and favours by the old Khanate. It's mercenaries are renowned the world over and fetch the highest prices of any... raking in huge sums of money for Einad itself as most all of these are organized by Einad as foreign legions fighting on behalf of forces the world over.

Shit, what did Pyri do to piss them off so much?
Also, I'm Confused. From the game it looked like the Zahara were losing the war, so how did they manage to broker a peace by getting their land back?
Pyri was one of the states that broke away from Lorum and were very aggressive in pushing its borders with others, even ignoring some pretty serious crisis' in the world to take advantage and strike when others were weakest. They made insane fortifications across their territory and others and were insanely good at resisting siege warfare, just pissing people off the world over forcing months/years long sieges... which broke the supplies and logistics of the sieging force even.

The Zahra didn't lose a war to Pyri. They lost to Ohmes... well, more accurately they lost to a single Ohmish noble house that wanted something from the Zahra, specifically, and cut Pyri in half to get that thing. It took multiple surrounding nations and the Orderites of Mourning Valley to excise them, and lands of Pyri (traditionally/formerly the Zahra) were given back to the Zahra to keep Pyri cut in half.

The Zahra are more than likely capable of holding Pyri back on their own. Especially with how fucking unorganized the northern Pyri is and the insanely hilarious long time it takes for the two halves to communicate with each other since the Zahra won't let them just go through their territory and force them to skirt the mountain range/go past Einad which results in mixed results depending how much Einad wants to fuck with the couriers that day. Northern Pyri has access to one of the greatest forts in history... Umbregada, and have failed year after year to hold it for more than a few months at a time. If they could secure it they could expand a TON of their territory. Also where one of the largest mercenary wars is being fought right now with seasonal campaigns.

Zahra had the land returned as part of a major fuck you to Pyri by Einad and others in the region that brokered peace. There's not much going on in said land in terms of resources etc, it's mostly arid savannah transitioning into grass steppes. Technically not even any real settlements of worth that Pyri had, some ancient Zahra ruins here and there and a couple small villages of Pyri people (formerly, they were relocated)... but it was kind of critical to Pyri for obvious reasons.
 
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ArbuzBudesh

Newbie
Game Developer
Sep 12, 2018
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maybe they could learn how to teleport in short bursts
there very consious decision to heavily limit teleportation among other magical tropes since they break EVERYTHING how society function(or at least they should). While there is cases of individuals who managed to learn teleportation through demon magic, its incredibly rare and barely existant even for demon mage tradition societies.
 

Chad54321

Newbie
Dec 2, 2019
36
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there very consious decision to heavily limit teleportation among other magical tropes since they break EVERYTHING how society function(or at least they should). While there is cases of individuals who managed to learn teleportation through demon magic, its incredibly rare and barely existant even for demon mage tradition societies.
Ah... but it does exist. So now its not a question of whether you can learn it, but who and how to learn it.
Not to mention, if its possible for a demon mage to teleport... then its definitely possible for Demons to teleport.
So that means that means demons are capable of teleportation, makes one wonder what else they can do.
 
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Chad54321

Newbie
Dec 2, 2019
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The devourer was at a stage where the professionals can deal with it in the event it gets out... provided they find/catch it. Though it might evade its pursuers, but Mara survived after all.
Hmm... so there's a chance it escaped? Hope it doesn't get hungry and decided to hunt Mara for a perceived slight, a perverted type of vengeance. If so, I hope she has someone dependable to help her.

Also, is there like a hierarchy or a tier system for demons? We know that lesser demons exist, average demons exist and so do ancient demons.
So do they treat each other differently or is there like an understanding between them?

Arcade was very advanced in age, in his mid-seventies with no heirs, as the Ohme he was married to ascend to the throne, exiled herself shortly after.
I guess that was a very difficult situation. Maybe there wasn't much that could be do-... wait.
If Arcade was in his mid-seventies with no heirs, why didn't Cade just wait until he kicked the bucket?

So when it comes to Scylla, is House Tullis is trying to capture her and House Graff is trying to bring her back? Sounds like a mess. I also find it funny that the House that the entire nation is named after is also the last ones who want to live there lol.

A very martial society with libertine values and... fairly accommodating.
Sounds like a very meritocratic and libertine society, with a somewhat loose attitude.
Makes me wonder if something influenced them, like Yela or something else?

So was Redic's father important or something?
Also, I get the feeling that Redic is hiding much of his true skill set. Considering the way he dispatched the Red Vagrants, he Sounds to me as more of a commando officer then a normal soldier given his skill in use of firearms and other weapons, close quarters combat and general situational awareness.

The Rotten War sounds interesting, maybe you could make something like a short novel describing its events?

Pyri was one of the states that broke away from Lorum and were very aggressive in pushing its borders with others. The Zahra didn't lose a war to Pyri. They lost to Ohmes... well, more accurately they lost to a single Ohmish noble house that wanted something from the Zahra, specifically, and cut Pyri in half to get that thing.
Well fuck.
Imagine getting invaded by a fraction of someone's army. Getting curb stomped. Find out they did all of this just for a trinket. Then after all is said and done they just GIVE you land, so you're confused and befuddled as for the reason why. And THEN you find out they only did it because they wanted to troll the other guy.
I'm surprised they have any ego left, considering they view everyone else as just children in comparison to them.

So are the Zahara a singular species, or are they a collection of several species and sub species of Animal Humanoids?
And what was Lorum like?
 
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ArbuzBudesh

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Game Developer
Sep 12, 2018
93
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Ah... but it does exist. So now its not a question of whether you can learn it, but who and how to learn it.
Not to mention, if its possible for a demon mage to teleport... then its definitely possible for Demons to teleport.
So that means that means demons are capable of teleportation, makes one wonder what else they can do.
Demons have same acess to magic as humans and are under same rules. Demon magic is called such because it interacts with demon dimension, not because demons use it, majority of demons dont know any magic actually. And before you ask demon innate shapeshifting ability isn't magic, rather something completely else what scholars unable to explain.

So only limit for magic possibilities is a skill, being ageless does help with that.

So are the Zahara a singular species, or are they a collection of several species and sub species of Animal Humanoids?
Its rather collection of sub species. They all compatible between each other similar how ogre\elves\humans are, but have different phenotypes and other characteristics differences.
And what was Lorum like?
Very old empire which made imprint on all continents, and due their influence are the ones who managed to create "common" language. It fallen apart at current age, though some splinters still try to cling to old glory and name.
Stylistically, politically and other ways they aren't decided yet as its more of the recent-ish additions.
 
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Chad54321

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Dec 2, 2019
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Demons have same acess to magic as humans and are under same rules. Demon magic is called such because it interacts with demon dimension, not because demons use it, majority of demons dont know any magic actually. And before you ask demon innate shapeshifting ability isn't magic, rather something completely else what scholars unable to explain.

So only limit for magic possibilities is a skill, being ageless does help with that.


Its rather collection of sub species. They all compatible between each other similar how ogre\elves\humans are, but have different phenotypes and other characteristics differences.
Very old empire which made imprint on all continents, and due their influence are the ones who managed to create "common" language. It fallen apart at current age, though some splinters still try to cling to old glory and name.
Stylistically, politically and other ways they aren't decided yet as its more of the recent-ish additions.
Yeah, me and Valaska talked about that, you can check our discussion about it on our earlier posts! Demon magic is more powerful in the fact that its a near unlimited source of it, but its also more dangerous. As demonstrated by the Zaharan shaman. And its not that the majority of demons aren't magically developed, its that most demons aren't mentally developed. Those that are, develop into the later stage of demons. And even then they might just... not care to try. We actually saw mara use demon magic to enchant an item so she could sell it to other mages, and it was pretty valuable considering they came from all over Kaldea to bid it from her, and mara herself is very young for a demon. So the fact the in between forming herself, traveling after the cults destruction and progressing her research, her managing to learn enchantment to an impressive degree shows at least that demons have an innate talent for it. As for shapeshifting, the ability and the pocket dimension itself aren't magical, But the matter in the pocket dimension is another thing. If you can dissolve the matter and receive energy, then equally you need energy to create it. So by proxy, if you want more complex shapeshifting, then you need demon magic to invest in more matter for it.



So what kinds of sub species exist? Is it something like wolves and tigers?
 
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