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ArbuzBudesh

Newbie
Game Developer
Sep 12, 2018
93
76
Assume you meant combat overhaul. Are you planning to stick with turn based combat or are you considering a more active, real time combat system?
we'll stick to turn based combat and will keep the core(limbs\AI card\turn order). Reworking it completely into real time is inefficient and delay they game release even further, and we'd prefer finishing it in this lifetime.
 
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Sevasto

New Member
May 31, 2018
8
5
we'll stick to turn based combat and will keep the core(limbs\AI card\turn order). Reworking it completely into real time is inefficient and delay they game release even further, and we'd prefer finishing it in this lifetime.
Noticed you didn't mention keeping the grid system, does that mean you plan to rework/remove that? With regards to real time being inefficient, I would beg to differ since you could opt for a RTWP style system and keep the top down view as it is without reworking too much cause you already have the base movement/attack animations. It's simply a matter of coding but I get that you have a release date in mind.
 
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deck

Member
Game Developer
Dec 21, 2017
132
947
Noticed you didn't mention keeping the grid system, does that mean you plan to rework/remove that? With regards to real time being inefficient, I would beg to differ since you could opt for a RTWP style system and keep the top down view as it is without reworking too much cause you already have the base movement/attack animations. It's simply a matter of coding but I get that you have a release date in mind.
Our next game will most likely have real time combat, but for Avarice we plan to make the turn based combat as good as we can, including with the grid. We had other priorities until now but we will turn our focus on it pretty soon.
 
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Alfre4u

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Dec 1, 2018
476
516
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Mar 26, 2020
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" Saving and Loading isn't going to work " Keep this in mind. (also unknown if works on latest version and in that exact way).
We don't even know if that was a problem exclusive to that game, it doesnt hurt to try atleast. And yes, it doesn't work exactly like he said with the newer versions of fiddler and all, but the tool is useful, thing is we need to learn how to use it. I did try to approach the guy that wrote this tutorial, he won't reply
 

ArbuzBudesh

Newbie
Game Developer
Sep 12, 2018
93
76
Noticed you didn't mention keeping the grid system, does that mean you plan to rework/remove that? With regards to real time being inefficient, I would beg to differ since you could opt for a RTWP style system and keep the top down view as it is without reworking too much cause you already have the base movement/attack animations. It's simply a matter of coding but I get that you have a release date in mind.
by inefficient i meant worktime spent since we'll have to throw out lots of very solid base we spent hours and hours making.
 

Sevasto

New Member
May 31, 2018
8
5
Our next game will most likely have real time combat, but for Avarice we plan to make the turn based combat as good as we can, including with the grid. We had other priorities until now but we will turn our focus on it pretty soon.
Sounds good, looking forward to the combat update and your future projects.

by inefficient i meant worktime spent since we'll have to throw out lots of very solid base we spent hours and hours making.
I see, thanks for the clarification.
 

baneini

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2017
1,994
3,084
People cut their losses when failure is inevitable. I don't think that turn based combat on itself would lead to that, otherwise whole game genre wouldn't exist in the first place.
If it was turn based in same style as sengoku Rance or something gamers would warm up more to it due to familiarity.
You know the core rule of game design; never do anything new, stick to convention and copy popular features other games do to find success.
 
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Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2017
643
939
If it was turn based in same style as sengoku Rance or something gamers would warm up more to it due to familiarity.
You know the core rule of game design; never do anything new, stick to convention and copy popular features other games do to find success.
I mean... Shadowrun, Baldurs Gate 1, 2, 3, Divinity Original Sin, Divinity Original Sin 2, Wasteland 1-3, Fallout Tactics, Disgaea, Final Fantasy Tactics, Battletech, Banner Saga, Girls Frontline 2 Exilium, Octopath Traveler, Fire Emblem, Gorky 17, Othercide, Tactics Ogre, Tyranny, UnderRail, Valkyria Chronicles, Banner of the Maid, Shining Force 2 if you wanna get super old-school or even Mario RPG.

We're not exactly creating a new genre, we're a Turn Based / Tactical / C-RPG, ya know? From Jagged Alliance we're treading a very long and defined path. We have a good size backing of over 1500 people who believe in our project and enjoy the type of game we are making. ShadowRun Deadman's Switch had 36k backers and went on to sell a ton of games enough to comfortably fund 2 more games and made the base of which they eventually hired the team to work on Battletech. We're in the modern renaissance of Tactical RPG's.

So to "cut our losses" which I assume means drop the entire project and start over...? Would be just silly. Is it possible that an ARPG could make more money or interest? Sure. But it's also possible that it wouldn't, it's possible that if we made a bastard hybrid porn game of DDR spliced with Cooking Mama in the setting of a slime planet with sexy mollusks we'd make billions.

All I can say is what we are doing now is getting a following, people enjoy it as it is and we are happy with what we are making.
There are a lot of things we need to hone and improve, this is our first outing as a cohesive team together despite a few of us having worked on games in the past. We've received some good suggestions here on how to streamline our combat and we have a pretty good idea where to go from here.

Changes in how we handle animations would be a huge addition with anticipation and effects, we lack sound effects, we're changing actual mechanics to be more up-front and intuitive. Should be good! But we're sticking firm to turn-based tactical combat. Throwing the tomboy out with the bathwater would be a little stupid for us to do.
 

baneini

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2017
1,994
3,084
There are a lot of things we need to hone and improve, Throwing the tomboy out with the bathwater would be a little stupid for us to do.
Cutting your losses would mean not building upon a combat system so that at the end of the project 99% of the players experience the game trough clicking skip combat button in a story mode so to speak.

You know how if one has an IQ of 130 they can either become a mediocre lawyer or an excellent professional at a less complex field like being a plumber. Aiming too high for what your team is capable of wastes resources that could be allocated better.
Every "aiming high" decision thats executed mediocrely could've been a more modest goal that's done better than other less capable dev teams leading to your competitiveness in the patreon field being greater.

Time is real, an important feature that gets implemented years too late is useless. Only plan features that you can start to implement that quarter.
 

Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2017
643
939
Cutting your losses would mean not building upon a combat system so that at the end of the project 99% of the players experience the game trough clicking skip combat button in a story mode so to speak.

You know how if one has an IQ of 130 they can either become a mediocre lawyer or an excellent professional at a less complex field like being a plumber. Aiming too high for what your team is capable of wastes resources that could be allocated better.
Every "aiming high" decision thats executed mediocrely could've been a more modest goal that's done better than other less capable dev teams leading to your competitiveness in the patreon field being greater.

Time is real, an important feature that gets implemented years too late is useless. Only plan features that you can start to implement that quarter.
I'll do a drive-by before I head off to snooze!

We get a good portion of people talking about our combat and generally liking it or just wanting it tuned and tweaked so, that's what we will have to do. The last part kinda vexes me though! We have implemented combat, it's here haha. We are just now fine-tuning and iterating on it. So to throw out everything we've made in terms of AI and mechanics then start over would be as Arbz said, would be a monumental mistake in time and resources.

So yeah! We'll be focusing on making the gameplay we have now more refined and polished, hopefully, to hold up to our precursor games.
 
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Oct 20, 2020
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I'll do a drive-by before I head off to snooze!

We get a good portion of people talking about our combat and generally liking it or just wanting it tuned and tweaked so, that's what we will have to do. The last part kinda vexes me though! We have implemented combat, it's here haha. We are just now fine-tuning and iterating on it. So to throw out everything we've made in terms of AI and mechanics then start over would be as Arbz said, would be a monumental mistake in time and resources.

So yeah! We'll be focusing on making the gameplay we have now more refined and polished, hopefully, to hold up to our precursor games.
Sooo you guys been talking about all this "cutting losses" and the turn base system of the game, and I don't really care about it tho, still enjoy it :coffee:

Yeah, it can't be compared to Gears tactics, battletech, Xcom, Banner Saga, etc. but it's more of an erotic game than a battle type so in-game fighting tends to be not great, and if the team wants to try something new for the combat system, I'll say go for it (only if you do it right)

The dev said to redo the battle mechanics, Arbuz and his team already put a ton of effort into the game so give them time, it could turn out way better
 
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