Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
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I'm just waiting for Subverse to implement relationship mechanics to the sex scenes, I heard they are doing that later so fingers crossed. Also I don't know any developers who hate Subverse? Some are disappointed that the sex scenes are just random without relationships like it was said they'd be, but that's the only thing.

Our combat is changing over time, we are neither where we need to be nor where we want it to be. So just like Subverse, we have a ways to go until we get to where we want.
 

The_Thiccness

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Yah, I'm enjoying both games greatly and hope to see them succeed to completion and perhaps to future titles. I feel both games have a good base they could expand upon, I feel like PFF has expanded more from the get go which is great. I'm a little worried with Subverse once they complete the story they will just drop any additional things they were going to implement, there are many directions they could go to expand the core of the game. I'm pretty sure the story is coming close to ending. I haven't played for several updates but plan to catch up once the next update comes around.
 

DCCM

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Is there anyway to make the skill card easier to look into ? Mine just stay in a group like this 1687606468790.png
 

LordDark97

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Just to be clear, these games are completely tonally different. Subverse plays more like a Borderlands game in tone and has entertaining minigames, but the main draw is the porn.

I would say that price for freedom has substantially more depth to it with better worldbuilding, more interesting lore and characters, and infinitely more satisfying interactions. The combat systems are similar on the surface, but price for freedom's health and damage system is quite different from anything I have seen before, and that makes it far more interesting.
but the cs is different toh
subverse is more similar to game like xcom or to an jrpg this one like baldur's gate
 

Chad54321

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a question to the developers, story wise is there a plan for the end game? mostly asking if the plot is laid out already or if you're taking it step by step?
 

Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
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a question to the developers, story wise is there a plan for the end game? mostly asking if the plot is laid out already or if you're taking it step by step?
Yup! We have the plot beats planned out, some of the text scrawls etc.

I plan to work in; "And so that... was the price, of freedom. Avarice." somewhere in the ending too.
 
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Chad54321

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Yup! We have the plot beats planned out, some of the text scrawls etc.

I plan to work in; "And so that... was the price, of freedom. Avarice." somewhere in the ending too.
Sound cool!

Another cool one is if lady wolf says; "if there is one thing in my life I've learned, is that there is always a price for freedom."
And then something about avarice.
 
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Chad54321

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Speaking about the plot, it got me thinking more about the story.

Since this game is set 87 years before the comic the story has to follow a certain path, so how many of our choices can truly affect everything?
I mean, our choices can affect people, dialogue and other smaller things, but on a larger scale?
do our choices matter or are somethings predetermined?

Like, if we side against Kimber do we actually change the story or do we change our side of the story?
She does seem to always have the upper hand thanks to something (or someone).

I find it interesting because the story is really great and it feels like its really hinting at a lot of things
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so I wonder how do you handle making the game story driven while adding choices to influence everything we do?
 
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Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
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Speaking about the plot, it got me thinking more about the story.

Since this game is set 87 years before the comic the story has to follow a certain path, so how many of our choices can truly affect everything?
I mean, our choices can affect people, dialogue and other smaller things, but on a larger scale?
do our choices matter or are somethings predetermined?

Like, if we side against Kimber do we actually change the story or do we change our side of the story?
She does seem to always have the upper hand thanks to something (or someone).

I find it interesting because the story is really great and it feels like its really hinting at a lot of things
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so I wonder how do you handle making the game story driven while adding choices to influence everything we do?
So the world state has a defined canonical ending, but yeah you will have impacts on the state of affai0rs by the end of the game. Though we have a lore accurate cast of who lives and dies, depending on your decisions, your own ending may differ in many ways.

Who lives, where companions end up, settlements longevity/health, who is in power, etc.
 

Chad54321

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So the world state has a defined canonical ending, but yeah you will have impacts on the state of affai0rs by the end of the game. Though we have a lore accurate cast of who lives and dies, depending on your decisions, your own ending may differ in many ways.

Who lives, where companions end up, settlements longevity/health, who is in power, etc.
If there is a canonical ending there must also be canonical choices, so if we wanted to make canonical choices how do know which are which?:unsure:

For example; we know that kaldea exists in the comic, but not in what way, so in order to make a canonical choice we have to wait until the comic touches on it, which does add an air of mystery but also makes a bit hard for those who want to match the game story to the comic story.

In the end it feels like that's the challenge for every good story intensive choice game (like Dragon Age).

It also makes me wonder.
If you ever wanted to make a sequel to the game, would it use the canonical story ending and/or our choices, or would it be about something completely new?
 
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Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
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If there is a canonical ending there must also be canonical choices, so if we wanted to make canonical choices how do know which are which?:unsure:

For example; we know that kaldea exists in the comic, but not in what way, so in order to make a canonical choice we have to wait until the comic touches on it, which does add an air of mystery but also makes a bit hard for those who want to match the game story to the comic story.

In the end it feels like that's the challenge for every good story intensive choice game (like Dragon Age).

It also makes me wonder.
If you ever wanted to make a sequel to the game, would it use the canonical story ending and/or our choices, or would it be about something completely new?
Uhhh.... that's something to think about, Dragon Age etc carried it forward to their sequels but you could just choose the "canonical start" as there's a canonical set state for their universe too.

Maybe we could add in something after you finish the game that shows what the canonical choices are and the choices you made.

We have ideas for sequels. My idea would involve Scylla and going to Ohmes and be a side scroller with an open world going location to location and would be directly connected. Arbuz wants to set something further into the continent in a still contested region maybe like the fringes of northern Pyri and area north of that and be more of an RTS game. Arbuz' idea would be pretty disconnected with everything from Avarice and the comic if I remember correctly.
 

Chad54321

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Uhhh.... that's something to think about, Dragon Age etc carried it forward to their sequels but you could just choose the "canonical start" as there's a canonical set state for their universe too.

Maybe we could add in something after you finish the game that shows what the canonical choices are and the choices you made.

We have ideas for sequels. My idea would involve Scylla and going to Ohmes and be a side scroller with an open world going location to location and would be directly connected. Arbuz wants to set something further into the continent in a still contested region maybe like the fringes of northern Pyri and area north of that and be more of an RTS game. Arbuz' idea would be pretty disconnected with everything from Avarice and the comic if I remember correctly.
Maybe you could take it in on in other ways too.

For example; you could make a short story depicting what happens if you pick to go with samara to wherever she goes like the The Sundered Archipelago or novencia, to see what happens to them there, and maybe a divergent story where he didn't go with her.
Or you can make a direct sequel for redics adventure that can be called Price for Freedom: Malice where he picked to go with lady wolf to Atlathka and was instrumental in creating her criminal empire, I think that could be easier then making a completely new game since you already put the effort into the game design and engine for it.
Or you can make an interactive map that shows all the events that happen across time in the world of avarice.

Ultimately its yours to do with as you please, but I think there are many things you can do both in and out of game form, with a good story anything is possible.

PS: sorry if I didn't get the lore right, the wiki site doesn't have a lot of completed information in it and there isn't really a world map so... yeah.:ROFLMAO:
 
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Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
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Maybe you could take it in on in other ways too.

For example; you could make a short story depicting what happens if you pick to go with samara to wherever she goes like the The Sundered Archipelago or novencia, to see what happens to them there, and maybe a divergent story where he didn't go with her.
Or you can make a direct sequel for redics adventure that can be called Price for Freedom: Malice where he picked to go with lady wolf to Atlathka and was instrumental in creating her criminal empire, I think that could be easier then making a completely new game since you already put the effort into the game design and engine for it.
Or you can make an interactive map that shows all the events that happen across time in the world of avarice.

Ultimately its yours to do with as you please, but I think there are many things you can do both in and out of game form, with a good story anything is possible.

PS: sorry if I didn't get the lore right, the wiki site doesn't have a lot of completed information in it and there isn't really a world map so... yeah.:ROFLMAO:
There will be after-credits rolls for characters and where they ended up etc, like the old Fallout games. They won't be short story length... well, I shouldn't say that I don't PLAN them to be short story length haha. They might end up but yeah. Sequels yeah still up in air what we might do later, mostly just fun theory crafting and spitballing. But that would be a neat idea, helping Lady Wolf build. And yeah there would be definite benefits to recycling the same mechanics.

An interactive map for our wiki would be super cool. I was filling the wiki out before my hands started to hurt, they are a bit better now so I should get back on it!
 
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Chad54321

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There will be after-credits rolls for characters and where they ended up etc, like the old Fallout games. They won't be short story length... well, I shouldn't say that I don't PLAN them to be short story length haha. They might end up but yeah. Sequels yeah still up in air what we might do later, mostly just fun theory crafting and spitballing. But that would be a neat idea, helping Lady Wolf build. And yeah there would be definite benefits to recycling the same mechanics.

An interactive map for our wiki would be super cool. I was filling the wiki out before my hands started to hurt, they are a bit better now so I should get back on it!
Sounds like you have a lot to keep busy!
And hey, if you're ever in the need for title ideas I've got a few good one, on the house ;).

Price for Freedom: Diligence

Price for Freedom: Vigilance

Price for Freedom: Vengeance

Price for Freedom: ReVengeance :WeSmart:

Price for Freedom: Retribution

Price for Freedom: Immemorial

Hope this helps out!

On a different topic, what was the world of PfF like in ancient times?
I mean, in the current world modern times humans and elves are almost indistinguishable except for a few small differences.
But what were the first elves like?
How did they come to be?
What happened when the elves and humans met each other for the first time? Did they wage war or did they make peace? (history suggests the former.)

I always imagined it like the game, Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura.
A world that was once full of magic and fantasy, but slowly over time started to industrialize and change.
I think it could add a lot of weight to the lore, like when you guys created the history of the way the ohmes unification happened.
 
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Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
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Elves and Humans share a common root ancestor before the two broke away and evolved down different routes. What the root common ancestor was we haven't fully hammered out but they were long eared and humans lost the longer ears and more developed hearing organs/balance for more discrete and protected ears/hearing.

Humans and Elves after being separate met again quite a long time ago, we haven't worked out what happened at that point but I imagine it was something akin to Neanderthal and humans where it wasn't too explosively violent and integration happened in certain regions. Elves and Humans still have some locations distinct from one another with more centralized civilizations having blends.

There are other branches on human evolution too, Giants, Ohmish, Novencian (Dark Elf), Ogre, and we're playing with whether we have more or not.

Our magic is quite a bit "Lower" tier than Arcanum outside of "Demonic Magic" which is pretty hard to formalize. Here, magic and technology, often are the same thing. Magic is a storage of energy and a power source. So you get Magilock, Spell lock etc firearms which are technology using magic to solve for issues they didn't have answers for OR to improve upon underlying technology.
 
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Chad54321

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Elves and Humans share a common root ancestor before the two broke away and evolved down different routes. What the root common ancestor was we haven't fully hammered out but they were long eared and humans lost the longer ears and more developed hearing organs/balance for more discrete and protected ears/hearing.

Humans and Elves after being separate met again quite a long time ago, we haven't worked out what happened at that point but I imagine it was something akin to Neanderthal and humans where it wasn't too explosively violent and integration happened in certain regions. Elves and Humans still have some locations distinct from one another with more centralized civilizations having blends.

There are other branches on human evolution too, Giants, Ohmish, Novencian (Dark Elf), Ogre, and we're playing with whether we have more or not.

Our magic is quite a bit "Lower" tier than Arcanum outside of "Demonic Magic" which is pretty hard to formalize. Here, magic and technology, often are the same thing. Magic is a storage of energy and a power source. So you get Magilock, Spell lock etc firearms which are technology using magic to solve for issues they didn't have answers for OR to improve upon underlying technology.
That does beg the question, what was the reason for the evolutionary divergence?
The main reason the Neanderthals and Humans split was because of the ice age, which the Neanderthals were more suited to survive in.
After the ice age ended, Neanderthals ultimately died off because their bodies couldn't be maintained because of their increased need for caloric energy, since Humans were more adaptable and their genes more dominant they eventually won out on the evolutionary line.

So maybe there could be other reasons why Humans and Elves diverged; Like bone structure: Elves could have been more lithe while Humans were more stocky.

Hearing: maybe Elf hearing is a double edged sword, maybe they can hear better but are more sensitive to sound so they can become deaf faster, and if their ears are damaged they have lesser hearing.
So maybe Human divergence was to protect their hearing for long term sustainability.

Adaptability: Humans could have been faster to adapt but Elves incorporated themselves more heavily into their environments like Dark Elves, Island Elves, Pale Elves etc.

Birth rates: fertility differences could be a thing since if Humans were the off shoot, then they managed to match, if not surpass Elf numbers.

Social: Elves themselves could be more isolationists that develop distinct cultures from each other, where Humans tend to congregate into bigger city's and nations like Ohms.

So after a while, many Elves could have decided to join Human settlements for a better chance at prosperity, and after centuries of intermingling became more similar to each other to the point of being near identical.

For ogres, it makes sense if they were the offspring of giants rather then vice versa, how they came to be could be numerous.

Saurian and Lamia race ancestors seem pretty obvious, and they probably shared similar events to Human and Elves in terms of evolution.

Also lets not leave out the possibility for magical evolution, given that the Aeyl are essentially a magical mutation that occurs to every species.


As for magic and technology, feels like as advancement would progress, and magic would become more redundant and expensive, the use of technology would become more commonplace.
If for the price of one magilock you could get three flintlocks, I imagine that when it comes to equipping an army numbers like that can turn the tide of battle.
So it feels like unless magic can progress to match that, it would be relegated to the wealthy and for more custom works.

As for "demon magic"?
That's a different beast entirely, gonna need a bit of time to gather my thoughts about it.

Hope to hear your thoughts on this!
 

Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
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Potentially at one point in ancient pre-history humans and elves had a division that led to humans losing their ears due to climate and temperature. Ohmish for example have muscle parity between men and women due to their northern climate and extremely harsh location where they were expected to fulfill similar roles.

More or less elves and stock humans are pretty much on parity now and have existed beside each other in close proximity for quite some time. Island Elves definitely have a more specific adaptation to their environment doing deep diving, maneuvering on rocks, and then later ships like outriggers etc. Novencian dark skin might be an adaptation to their northern climate and retaining heat. Pale elves as I remember are mixbred with humans.

Novencia and Elven societies are pretty large too. Novencia is as large as Ohmes, if not more populous. The Sultanate (Working name, haven't decided yet) is huge and technically where Redic is from, sort of lol. Einad is an autonomous region but still part of the Sultanate.

Yeah we had a genetic tree and Ogres are the progeny/descendent of Giants, Giants are very limited in number. How Giants originally evolved we haven't worked out, but they currently to this day farm livestock that supplies them a ready sustainable source of protein... originally it was a big'ol land slug kind of thing!

Sauria are interesting in that they are capable of interbreeding with most all the other sentient species. Scalekin like Aya or Kimber come from a pairing of Saurian and Elf for instance! Magic in the setting has a definite effect on things, Aeyl were an example of direct action and changes/alteration by specific design to try and out-compete Mournish Warslaves by an Ohmish noble house, altering Zarha and Humans/Elves.

Magic is expensive but its energetic storage is incredibly efficient... so it will likely never go away, and while you can mass produce flint lock, having a repeating rifle at this stage in technology puts you at a huge advantage and that advantage will likely carry over into the coming eras. Magic might even become more mass-producible too, but cheaper less advanced stuff for sure will bea ble to be made in larger bulk for cheaper.

Demonic Magic can almost be more like other fantasy settings but it has to be learned on a case by case basis by the individual. It can't really be effectively or reliably reproduced. And it is extremely dangerous for non-demonic entities to dabble with it. Though the Zahra and some Ohmish noble houses practice and use it fairly extensively.
 

Chad54321

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Adaptation generally works on need to not need situations, in cold and cloudy weather you will have paler skin to survive the cold, in warm and sunny weather you will have darker skin so your skin wont burn so easily and withstand the heat better, and in extreme weather you will have stronger bodies so they can last longer and survive better, like the Ohmish.

To need better hearing would mean that you live in an environment where NOT hearing better would mean your death: like forests, jungles, or anywhere that is heavily populated by predators.
forests would also makes sense, since the Proto Elves would need better balance to climb trees to avoid predators or find food.

The early Humans probably moved to to more flat lands where you generally see what's coming like the plains, meadows or desserts, so they didn't need better hearing. Maybe the early Humans developed better eyesight to compensate for a lack of better hearing, or denser bones to make up for a lack of better balance.
I say this because it doesn't make sense for Elves to be just better then humans without compensating for anything in terms of biology.

I cant really say much about Novencia since there isn't really a lot of lore I've seen to theorize about, except for the demon cults.
Although that could explain the Dark Elves, long term exposure to demons and demon magic could have turned their Elven ancestors skin dark, eyes red and hair to a silver white. So maybe the more you get away from central Novencia, the more varied Dark Elves become.

I find the Suaria very interesting.
Since they are cold blooded, them living in cold environs could spell a lot of health problems for them, from getting sick to straight up DYING. So I wonder how Hiho plans to deal with that when she gets to Ohms, I can only imagine her wearing a giant sock on her tail to stay warm lol.

This is the first time I've heard of the "Sultanate" so ill take your word for it. Though lets be honest, if a military nation says they are autonomous, you don't have a choice in the matter. You either agree or you get invaded.
Anyways, it would be great to get more background into Redics life, cause if I'm guessing correctly, I don't think the red vagrants were bandits. Besides, I love the story updates, the last one spoiled me :LOL:.

Now demons and demon magic...
To start, I don't think you can classify them as a race, a species or even as proper living beings. Demons are like a force of nature, coming into the world out of nowhere and existing suddenly and then becoming anything; A rock, a tree, an immortal anomaly of geometric shapes that would probably outlast the entire universe.
They essentially ARE demon magic, born from it and molded by it, for them using it is like breathing.
That's why I think the term "essence magic" is inaccurate, because it not really magic. Its an entirely different plane of existence, trying to draw power from that would be like attaching a battery(person) to a lightning rod and hoping when lightning(demon magic) strikes the battery wont explode. Asking demons to teach you also feels pointless, because its like a fish trying to teach a person how to be a fish. You either drown trying, or you're flopping in a lake, looking like an idiot.
Ultimately I find demons to be truly alien, something from another plane of existence that no one truly understand, maybe not even demons themselves. Like the warp from Warhammer 40K.

As for the Zahra and Ohmish demon magic users, I would ask what the general mortality rate is, cause I'm guessing it might be high...

(Did it! man, this one took a while!)
 
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