Problems working with artists

[Anorak]

So I have been working towards making an adult porn parody game for a few months now, but I have run into a bit of a snag: Artists doesn't want to draw what they've been commissioned to. How common is this, or do I just have bad luck?

For reference, I get together with the artist and talk about what I'd expect of them and what I'd be paying them (commission prices, not patreon shares, since that is nonexistent). And that I need them for a long term project. All of this is agreed upon. Up until they quit.

I had one artist who quit, leaving me with a bunch of paid artwork that has absolutely 0 value to me now since I want it all to look to be drawn from the same artist. Then I got two artists who could emulate eachother's artstyles somewhat well, starting over from the beginning. One artist quit and the other is AWOL. And the fourth artist who is a background artist that worked at the same time as the previous two, did the same.

Is this just... A thing that commonly happens? I am several hundred dollars down in commission fees, and all I want is art for this game that I'm making. Like, the background artist's work is the only thing I can save, since at least that can be emulated a bit more easier (and won't draw the same kind of attention as the character art anyhow).
I have always been against paying artists in patreon shares when there isn't any successful patreon already ongoing, but I have sort of learned that paying them commission fees is just fucking dangerous...

 

[Ambir]

So I have been working towards making an adult porn parody game for a few months now, but I have run into a bit of a snag: Artists doesn't want to draw what they've been commissioned to. How common is this, or do I just have bad luck?

For reference, I get together with the artist and talk about what I'd expect of them and what I'd be paying them (commission prices, not patreon shares, since that is nonexistent). And that I need them for a long term project. All of this is agreed upon. Up until they quit.

I had one artist who quit, leaving me with a bunch of paid artwork that has absolutely 0 value to me now since I want it all to look to be drawn from the same artist. Then I got two artists who could emulate eachother's artstyles somewhat well, starting over from the beginning. One artist quit and the other is AWOL. And the fourth artist who is a background artist that worked at the same time as the previous two, did the same.

Is this just... A thing that commonly happens? I am several hundred dollars down in commission fees, and all I want is art for this game that I'm making. Like, the background artist's work is the only thing I can save, since at least that can be emulated a bit more easier (and won't draw the same kind of attention as the character art anyhow).
I have always been against paying artists in patreon shares when there isn't any successful patreon already ongoing, but I have sort of learned that paying them commission fees is just fucking dangerous...

I know that it happened to me. Killed off a few of my early projects.

One piece of advice I can give you is to take a long, hard look at yourself. The four people that left your team have one common denominator: They were working for you. Examine how you treated them. There might be the begining of an answer there.

 

[Meaning Less]

Legit question, can't you just comission the entire project at once? So find someone that will deliver either all images you need or nothing.

Either that or you will have to look into hiring someone if you need more stability.

 

[Ambir]

Legit question, can't you just comission the entire project at once? So find someone that will deliver either all images you need or nothing.

From my experience, I would say that this is a good way to get scammed. Most artists won't accept to enter such a deal, and those that do will most likely ask you to pay some part of the price upfront.

Either that or you will have to look into hiring an artist if you need more stability.

There's a subforum for that here. Although that is also very hit or miss. Imo, the most stable option is to learn to make art on your own for a new game developer.

 

[Dagoth Urgers]

The bar for western h-game art isn't exactly high. If you aren't even willing to learn enough to do it yourself, then what you are making is going to be terrible in which case no halfway competent artist is going to want to associate themselves with your project.

 

[Ambir]

The bar for western h-game art isn't exactly high. If you aren't willing to learn enough to do it yourself, then what you are making is going to be terrible in which case no halfway competent artist is going to want to associate themselves with your project.

If by 'learning enough' you mean half-assing it and going with a illusion product or daz3d, then why would he need an artist in the first place then?
And I hope you aren't talking about 2d art... Because saying that not wanting to learn enough to make your own 2d art is being lazy seems a bit crazy seeing how incredibly hard it can be to draw stuff that looks alright.

 

[Dagoth Urgers]

That attitude is why western porn games are crap and will always be crap. That and Patreon.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Is this just... A thing that commonly happens?

Extremely common.
Let's be frank here, artists are a pain in the ass. An absolutely massive one.
If you want to ensure that they do not bail for whatever reason then you need a contract, nothing else will really work unless by some miracle you find a hard working one.
It's probably easier if you learn to do it yourself honestly, at least then you will be 100% sure nobody will bail on you.

 

[Ambir]

That attitude is why western porn games are crap and will always be crap. That and Patreon.

I don't agree with you at all. These japanese games you see are made by professionals. They are made using division of tasks, where a good artist team up with a good coder and a good voice actor, usually in a professional studio.

I believe you are highly mistaken when you tell people that they should know to do everything. The issue with western games is that aside from Nutaku, there is about no professional game studio that is well funded that makes adult games. It is a very infant market.

Professional game studios have professionals working with professionals, and hiring artists is just a standard for higher quality games, because there is too much work for a single person.

Also, becoming good at anything is something that requires a lot of dedication, and it is indeed crazy to tell someone that if they don't learn everything themselves, it is impossible for them to do something good.

Would you tell me that, say, starcraft was a shit game? Because starcraft was made by a bunch of people who individually didn't know enough to make the entire game themselves, which is exactly the case of OP, and exactly what you say will lead to "op making a terrible game meaning no one will want to associate with him".

Edit: Eh, I mean, I don't agree with the first part of your sentence. Patreon is a cancer that I agree should cease to exist.

 

[Losersriot]

That attitude is why western porn games are crap and will always be crap. That and Patreon.

Asian porn games is good, but... is one same game in same art and same plot And faceless faces not change 50 year.

 

[Dagoth Urgers]

These japanese games you see are made by professionals. They are made using division of tasks, where a good artist team up with a good coder and a good voice actor, usually in a professional studio.

Bullshit. Most of them are indie developers just like you.

 

[Ambir]

Bullshit. Most of them are indie developers just like you.

Most of them probably suck, then. How many bad japanese games are there?

 

[Losersriot]

I don't agree with you at all. These japanese games you see are made by professionals. They are made using division of tasks, where a good artist team up with a good coder and a good voice actor, usually in a professional studio.

I believe you are highly mistaken when you tell people that they should know to do everything. The issue with western games is that aside from Nutaku, there is about no professional game studio that is well funded that makes adult games. It is a very infant market.

Professional game studios have professionals working with professionals, and hiring artists is just a standard for higher quality games, because there is too much work for a single person.

Also, becoming good at anything is something that requires a lot of dedication, and it is indeed crazy to tell someone that if they don't learn everything themselves, it is impossible for them to do something good.

Would you tell me that, say, starcraft was a shit game? Because starcraft was made by a bunch of people who individually didn't know enough to make the entire game themselves, which is exactly the case of OP, and exactly what you say will lead to "op making a terrible game meaning no one will want to associate with him".

Edit: Eh, I mean, I don't agree with the first part of your sentence. Patreon is a cancer that I agree should cease to exist.

StarCraft is prepuberty crap and no porn game anyway

 

[Losersriot]

Best porn games EVER - Skyrim and New Vegas porn mods.

 

[Dagoth Urgers]

Most of them probably suck, then.

You see? This is the exact attitude I was talking about: "it's indie so it has to suck." Didn't expect him to come right out and say it, but I guess that's just how deeply it's engrained.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

How many bad japanese games are there?

A shitton actually.
But jap market also exists faaaaar longer than western.
Western smut game market is in it's infancy, we still have plenty of potential for growth, unlike Japs.

 

[Dagoth Urgers]

Western smut game market is in it's infancy

No it isn't, it just flat out doesn't exist. Market implies people buying and selling things, which is not the same as giving donations.

 

[Ambir]

You see? This is the exact attitude I was talking about: "it's indie so it has to suck." Didn't expect him to come right out and say it, but I guess that's just how deeply it's engrained.

Please do not get me wrong with this. The parallel I am making is not 'it's indie so it has to suck'.

Here is my analysis. I might be wrong here, so if I am, I am absolutely willing to learn.

Here goes:

Indie has this problem where there is a lack of funding, and it is often made by amateurs. This leads to tons of issues such as:
-Lack of experience when it comes to making games.
-Problems marketing.
-Problems accessing skills not possessed by the person who is the core of the project.
-Problems securing personal due to inability to sue people or pay people (Or at least, lack of means to do these things).

There are a lot of other issues, but any of these issues can kill a project, or limit it severly.

It is not that indie = bad. It is that there need to be a lot of people who try, in average, for there to be a good project that come out. A lot of people will just fail.

Take me, for exemple. My first game was a failure. I spent about 1500$ on it, and it made me roughly 300-400$ in total throughout it's lifetime.

My second game was better. I didn't spend anything on it, and only worked about 100 hours on it (between coding it, fixing the coding, learning to use KK and making all of the renders), and it made me roughly 300$ so far.

By any conventional metrics, both of these games are a failure.

I am confident that I will be able to make a succesful game eventually, especially since I am actually learning 2d art and improving my writing right now, as I identified that my lack of skills in several area was a factor in my games not doing too well.
However, when I make my good game, how many projects will I have made that will have been a failure? 5-10?
That is a lot of games that suck compared to games that are succesful.
Say that every single indie developper eventually makes a good game. It still won't change that they probably will have made a couple of bad to horrible games before.

For a bigger studio, they have a lot more means, and the investments are higher, so while there are definitely failures, I believe that the number is not quite as high. (Although, I will be honest, I dont have any data on bigger studios, so this is kind of a guess on my part).


I hope this clarifies my opinion on the situation.

No it isn't, it just flat out doesn't exist. Market implies people buying and selling things, which is not the same as giving donations.

Well, I made roughly 200$ in sales with Sexy Minesweep before I made it free out of misguided fear of getting sued (turns out that won't protect me at all...)
There might not be tons of sales, but I can confirm that there are.

 

[Dagoth Urgers]

Thank you for your explanation. I see now that I was wrong. You're not indies at all, you're just a bunch of soulless corpos who haven't become organized yet. It's nothing but risk management and ROI for you. No wonder artists want nothing to do with western porn games.

 

[Joshua Tree]

There is that saying... "you get what you pay for".. If you want to comission work. Make sure you flesh out what you want so the arist know exactly what they sign up for. Also don't go with the cheapest offer you can find. Check out their reputation and try get some referals too.

Comission artwork for a entire game wouldn't come at the cost of several hundred USD, it would come at the cost of several thousand if the artist is serious enough. Also don't pay up front.