Milking Patreons for 8 months?
I don't care, I don't pay. What other people do with their money is their business.
So let's see. Ocean makes Summer is gone and Where it all began on his own AFAIK. He's also one who's been accused of milking. His games were launched more or less 4 years ago (one end of 2018, another first quarter of 2019). But In that time, WIAB had the initial release that went to 0.6 which had 6194 renders. It then got reworked and the rework has 2354 renders. Then there is Summer is gone which has 9300 renders so far. So in 4 years Ocean rendered 17748 renders while also doing the writing. And that's him working alone and creating custom sets in some cases. Meanwhile in 3 years the Radiant team managed to render just 2401 renders. So like almost 9 times fewer renders. The game may be good but the excuse that they're somehow stretched thin doesn't fly. Whether someone pays for the game or not is irrelevant, facts are facts. This is milkinog the highest degree.
I'm happy to support both Summers Gone and Radiant.
It might shock you to read this, but I mentioned in my post that he gets accused of milking too. But clearly in your rush to be Captain Save a Hoe you didn't read very carefully. And the reason I posted the comparison in terms of the volume of renders done is precisely to show the difference between someone who does a lot of work and someone who just bilks people. I've seen people who pause billing on Patreon if they are unable to deliver for a while. Doubtful this has happened here. Also like I said, whether someone is paying or not is irrelevant. If it quacks like a duck...
It's completely relevant. There are many games that have long time spans between releases and, as long as this is understood by a project's patrons, then by definition 'bilking', 'milking' etc isn't taking place. It's when someone takes, or actively solicits, patronage based on performance claims ("I'll deliver X amount of content with Y girls on Z date") and then repeated doesn't honor that commitment that we get into fraud territory.
So what would your definition of milking be then? Or I suppose it doesn't exist? I guess the saying "there is a sucker born every minute" applies.
milking is just exploiting a game beyond its useful life, that is, extending things in a useless way just to get the most out of it, an example would be that game called "my pleasure" or dmd, but missing deadlines is usually not milking at least for me, it just means that the dev is irresponsible or has no idea what to do with his own game. At least that's what I think
Great question.
That's another definition and agree completely with the idea that a concept can be run into the ground by 'milking'. What most people here seem to mean is when someone takes 'too long' to deliver content, often regardless of what the actual facts are.
An excellent definition : See WVM, and the wagon train of excuses that BrainDrop has given over the past year or two. I'm sure we'll see that Milfy City update any day now, too.
Yeah OK, so 3 renders per day on average over 3 years is totally not taking people for fools. I mean denial is not just a river in Egypt. And they are still asking for MORE money. Stay salty. And keep paying.
How could I possibly know what WVM is?
Sure I like the way the characters look, and the writing is OK but when you're taking in 6,000 a month you have no excuse. I mentioned above how Ocean works on 2 games and he delivered a damn lot more. Oh, and Ocean I seem to recall he was working a job too. Maybe even two, but don't quote me on that.
There are a lot of games where the developer has a regular job and does game creation as a hobby, and they're not going to crank out 50 renders a day. This is fine as long as everyone knows that going in, because a lot of us don't care when the updates come out.Yeah OK, so 3 renders per day on average over 3 years is totally not taking people for fools. I mean denial is not just a river in Egypt. And they are still asking for MORE money. Stay salty. And keep paying.
" And a person not supporting a project is not being 'milked' because they didn't pay for anything in the first place. " I never said I was. I said the ones paying are.
"
Promising a certain type and quantity of content by a particular date and repeatedly not delivering on those promises
- Continuing to accept this transactional, conditional patronage despite not delivering
- Playing on the innate goodwill of people to extend this situation as long as possible "
Sounds like exactly what these guys are doing.
I'm tempted to believe it is b) because what I know about game development does not line up with progress as I have seen here. Even for a solo dev. Look at the architect or the sexbot guy, or the two guys at summer heat. All very reliable about releases. Yet this dev only has excuses and can't or "won't" deliver and when they do it's perfectly serviceable but they say it will be a buggy mess and to please not release it here, they only want patrons (who at this point are sunk cost compliant) to have it. It all smells like rotten milk to me.
