VN Ren'Py Radiant [v0.6.3] [RK Studios]

[Cartageno]

But even if not I don't think anyone believes that an hour update in 8+ months is reasonable. At the very least this game should have a potentially abandoned or short play or low priority or slow updates tag to warn people to not expect updates.

I have no idea how you finished the update in one hour, but to each their own pace.

However, again you are assuming for others what they find "reasonable", and that's not your job. If somebody doesn't judge by raw numbers but by enjoyment they get out of this, they may arrive at a different conclusion.

And regardless of whether they would apply here, none of the tags you suggested makes sense at all because they would just be opinions and could endlessly discussed. You want to give out a warning, others may want to give out a recommendation, great.

Again: I will agree that for my tastes the updates are too slow, and I would not subscribe on Patreon (or anywhere else) with the current state of things as they are. But it just is not my place to tell others how they should feel. This kind of "White Knighting" for the poor uneducated supporters by me, the omniscient superior being, is just not adequate.

 

[iOtero]

Ehm, I think you misread the post you were quoting. We were talking about one character we don't like. If I don't buy games where there's something in them I don't like, I don't buy games. Same with Patreon support. Of course, it may be too bad, or the straw that breaks the camels back, but generally that wouldn't be an issue.

I think I have not explained myself well, my native language is not English, so it will be my fault. I will try to explain myself better.
I was saying that I shared your opinion about the cop character being superfluous in the game.
And I was commenting about the patrons, just to point out that there are many more people than the three of us who don't think the same way, or don't care. And that they also don't care that the game is more time dead than alive.
It was just that.
I didn't mean to upset anyone either, sorry if I did.

 

[jaw1986baby]

Is anyone here a patron? There is an update on Patreon but not on SS
I will not put money into Patreon so if anyone else could share the update info that would be great.

 

[Smarmint]

Radiant will obviously be released eventually, and it is probably a 3 or 4 year (or more) game based on the pace of development so far. Both devs have history releasing games, so I am confident they will keep working on it until it is completed. And the game is for the most part, except for some unneeded drama in the last update in my opinion, very high quality.

I think the issue that some have, is that as long as RK gets $10K a month, there isn't a lot of motivation for them to finish up the game quickly, because that is less money for them in the long run. Imagine you are getting $10K a month, there isn't a lot of motivation to push out updates quickly every month and wrap up your game in a year, when you can extend it out 3 or 4 years at the same effort. The Patron model encourages slow development, as long as it isn't so slow that supporters drop off. As we have seen with this and several other games, the best strategy is to release a great first update, with lots of lots of content, beautiful models, and an intriguing story, and then only release every 9 to 12 months. Then you can keep the Patreon cash flowing, for only a small number of hours a week of development work.

Now there are some devs who have their own internal work ethic, that keeps them working on the game most days of the week, and they have sizeable regular 1-3 month updates. Some developers even feel that as long as they are collecting Patreon cash monthly, that they owe some content to their fans every month or at most every 2 months if something unusual happens to slow down development, but honestly, this type of developer is becoming more and more rare.

But, every one of Radiant's supporters knows this, and is happy to support the development anyway, so none of us here, who are getting the game for free, should complain or discourage others from supporting the devs while they make their other games. There is no rule on Patron that devs can only have one game, and I suspect that many accomplished devs have multiple games under different names. R&K is just being honest by admitting it from the start.

I think a lot of us expected after Radiant's first release, that there would be some content every 2 or 3 months, but that didn't come from either of the devs. This was our own mistaken assumption based on the release cycles of the devs' other games. Radiant is on a 8 to 10 month cycle, and we should all just accept it. If Patreon supporters are fine paying tens of thousands of dollars, collectively, each month for the game's development no matter how little happens each month, who are we to complain about it? We can each either support them or not.

 

[dolfe67]

This was our own mistaken assumption based on the release cycles of the devs' other games. Radiant is on a 8 to 10 month cycle,

About that, not really a mistaken assumption when devs had planned to release on a ~4 months cycle but had a 2 months delay for whatever reason and now no more planned cycle. Also one of their patreon's goals is "to get updates published far faster". But yeah they didn't specify faster than what...

Spoiler: goals

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Smarmint]

Also one of their patreon's goals is "to get updates published far faster". But yeah they didn't specify faster than what...

Umm. Pretty much every dev on Patreon says some variation of "I can buy more computing hardware, a second rendering machine, etc, etc, and release updates much faster." In reality, the more money a dev gets, the slower the development. We should still donate to those devs we appreciate, to motivate them to continue, show our appreciation, and just to give something back for games that we enjoy, but we should be realistic about the claims.

Does anyone have an example where a dev actually did release updates faster once they reached their Patreon goals? I am truly curious. I can't think of a single example, among the hundreds of games here I keep an eye on, and in fact in almost all cases development slows the more income a game has.

If Patron ever switches to a release model, where the dev gets paid per release, things will change drastically, but neither the devs not Patreon (who get a cut of course) have any motivation to change from the current funding model, which gives consistent income regardless of whether anything is released, or if any work is done at all.

Unless the dev gives a specific date or week, I don't pay any attention to development targets. Past performance speaks louder than vague claims, so if the game has released every 6 to 9 months or so in the past, expect that it will continue at that rate or more likely get slower with time. Never faster.

 

[Cartageno]

Does anyone have an example where a dev actually did release updates faster once they reached their Patreon goals? I am truly curious. I can't think of a single example, among the hundreds of games here I keep an eye on, and in fact in almost all cases development slows the more income a game has.

No, I cannot quote an example, but I would argue that creating something also gets more difficult the longer a project goes on. More difficult to find something new and fresh to continue, more difficult to tie up all the story lines to finish it up. Add to that that many people will get tired of even the most enjoyable projects after spending years on them, and I do think that would count at least for part of all kinds of projects slowing down. Especially since these are mostly not trained writers and programmers who have done this for years and working solo or in a very small team.

If Patron ever switches to a release model, where the dev gets paid per release, things will change drastically, but neither the devs not Patreon (who get a cut of course) have any motivation to change from the current funding model, which gives consistent income regardless of whether anything is released, or if any work is done at all.

Never mind the incentive, Patreon explicitely started out to offer an alternative to "result based" payment systems, thus the name. You are not intended to be buying something or getting something specific in return, but to "support the arts". Although I suspect they had a different kind of art in mind than porn games.

Unless the dev gives a specific date or week, I don't pay any attention to development targets. Past performance speaks louder than vague claims, so if the game has released every 6 to 9 months or so in the past, expect that it will continue at that rate or more likely get slower with time. Never faster.

Pretty solid approach I'd say.

 

[Smarmint]

No, I cannot quote an example, but I would argue that creating something also gets more difficult the longer a project goes on. More difficult to find something new and fresh to continue, more difficult to tie up all the story lines to finish it up. Add to that that many people will get tired of even the most enjoyable projects after spending years on them, and I do think that would count at least for part of all kinds of projects slowing down. Especially since these are mostly not trained writers and programmers who have done this for years and working solo or in a very small team.

Very true. I don't begrudge a developer for taking his time, and all the games I support tend to be on a 6 month release cycle. I would love it to be faster, but the games I like are story heavy, not flashy, and tend to be a one-man-show, so long cycles are just the way it is. And I know that except for the big gaming teams, most developers are doing this in their free time. The most I can hope for is regular communication by the devs, and a somewhat regular, if slow, release cycle.

Obviously I can't see anyone's true motives, but when a game blows up like Radiant, and becomes one of the most successful VNs of all time financially after a single release, you can see that the development is not going to be quick. Since neither developer is doing this for the first time, and each has a long track record of game development, it is clear that the very slow pace of development is not due to lack of experience, lack of ideas, or lack of hardware. And not enough has happened for them to get tired of the project already. In this case, it is the financial motivation for the slowest possible development of the Patron model, in my opinion.

 

[Squark ⚧❤️]

If this was their only project, I'd still be pledging.
As it currently stands, I can't justify it to myself even if I do like 95% of what's currently in the game.

The other 5%?

"You're clearly on a date with someone that isn't me but let's fuck regardless."
I mean, wtf? Brooke's too sweet for me to do this to.

"You killed my son, prepare to die! Oh wait, no. Let's just have sex instead."
This one has some potential for good writing later, but that's pretty much how it currently stands.

"I obviously can't do a thing to hurt you so I'm just going to be a creeper."
Example of a really bad plot device. When he first showed up, people knew he couldn't do a thing to the MC.
Stupid asshole is stupid.

 

[SenPC]

"You're clearly on a date but let's fuck regardless."
I mean, wtf? Game or not, I can't get myself behind this at all.

This exact scenario (an offer of immediate and anonymous sex in a back room from a stranger) happened to me while on a date in 1992, and I can remember at least three other times women have asked me to take their numbers while they knew I was on a date with someone else. When I was playing the game for the first time, it brought back a rush of memories from my 20s. It doesn't strike me as being as farfetched as it does you. Well within the bounds of suspension of disbelief in a sex game. There are probably psychological papers on why people can react this way. Maybe she wants to sabotage the relationship. Maybe she's hurting inside and seeing someone who can treat a potential partner well triggers some desperate need in her. Maybe she just likes to be disruptive, or is crazy. People do occasionally behave like this in real life.

 

[Fapmigo]

This exact scenario (an offer of immediate and anonymous sex in a back room from a stranger) happened to me while on a date in 1992, and I can remember at least three other times women have asked me to take their numbers while they knew I was on a date with someone else. When I was playing the game for the first time, it brought back a rush of memories from my 20s. It doesn't strike me as being as farfetched as it does you. Well within the bounds of suspension of disbelief in a sex game. There are probably psychological papers on why people can react this way. Maybe she wants to sabotage the relationship. Maybe she's hurting inside and seeing someone who can treat a potential partner well triggers some desperate need in her. Maybe she just likes to be disruptive, or is crazy. People do occasionally behave like this in real life.

What did you do?
Choosed the lust route by banging the stranger in the backroom or the purity route?

 

[SenPC]

What did you do?
Choosed the lust route by banging the stranger in the backroom or the purity route?

I took her up on it, which is why I remember it so clearly. I strutted around for about a week, feeling like a porn star. I was a really shitty person as a kid (22 at the time), but I had a hell of a lot of fun.

 

[Fapmigo]

I took her up on it, which is why I remember it so clearly. I strutted around for about a week, feeling like a porn star. I was a really shitty person as a kid (22 at the time), but I had a hell of a lot of fun.

And when you came back to your table, was your date still waiting?

 

[SenPC]

And when you came back to your table, was your date still waiting?

It was actually a production of "Phantom of the Opera", not in a restaurant. Getting back to my seat, my date didn't realize anything other than that I had been to the bathroom. It was a double date, so she had the other couple and the show to keep her distracted. The date wasn't as exciting as the stairwell sex, and we stopped dating a few weeks later, mutually disinterested. But the story was legend among my friends for years.

 

[Fapmigo]

It was actually a production of "Phantom of the Opera", not in a restaurant. Getting back to my seat, my date didn't realize anything other than that I had been to the bathroom. It was a double date, so she had the other couple and the show to keep her distracted. The date wasn't as exciting as the stairwell sex, and we stopped dating a few weeks later, mutually disinterested. But the story was legend among my friends for years.

I was going to say that you're a bastard but It's quite a cool story (not cool for the girl, but funny for your friends).

 

[Aristos]

So how are the updates coming along?
Obviously I mean Neko Paradise and Tales of Eros.
Everything OK, or will they be delayed by this pain of a project with no fan support called Radiant?

 

[Raziel_8]

So how are the updates coming along?
Obviously I mean Neko Paradise and Tales of Eros.
Everything OK, or will they be delayed by this pain of a project with no fan support called Radiant?

Well the fans of Polarity are waiting since 11 months for a update now, while the only posts are, how it will be the biggest update...

 

[Aristos]

Well the fans of Polarity are waiting since 11 months for a update now, while the only posts are, how it will be the biggest update...

... of all times?

 

[Cartageno]

I never understand how you can give "content time" for that reason: in almost every type of game it will completely depend more on the players. I guess it is just a way trying to have some objective facts to measure update quality. But like with renders alone, or lines of dialogue, it does not measure "quality" at all (which is somewhat subjective anyway). It would be easy to create a looooooong update by having a character monologue about the health effects of different foods or why Wikipedia is not to be trusted (both real examples from games on F95, one from a game I consider really good otherwise, one from a game I consider extremely shitty) but it would not be the same as using the same time for meaningful character development.

 

[Squark ⚧❤️]

I never understand how you can give "content time" for that reason: in almost every type of game it will completely depend more on the players. I guess it is just a way trying to have some objective facts to measure update quality. But like with renders alone, or lines of dialogue, it does not measure "quality" at all (which is somewhat subjective anyway). It would be easy to create a looooooong update by having a character monologue about the health effects of different foods or why Wikipedia is not to be trusted (both real examples from games on F95, one from a game I consider really good otherwise, one from a game I consider extremely shitty) but it would not be the same as using the same time for meaningful character development.

*nods* I get this. Estimated times don't always pan out in the way we'd hope.
I know some people read faster than others while others try to put a voice on dialogue in their heads. Doesn't change that there's a legion of people that seem to do nought but complain like they have dominion on the opinions of others.
Finding the right balance between dialogue and renders is always a tricky thing to accomplish.

What two games are you referring to, btw?