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CHAD-MAN

Active Member
Aug 12, 2017
921
2,705
So now the meme joke is that Portugal doesn't have good connection? Well, at least Alorth wasn't bit by a shark in Algarve.

Good thing in the US, Dammed has all the internet he needs to make the game.
 
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Qixoni

Active Member
Jul 10, 2017
961
935
So now the meme joke is that Portugal doesn't have good connection? Well, at least Alorth wasn't bit by a shark in Algarve.

Good thing in the US, Dammed has all the internet he needs to make the game.
We have 5G and 200MB/s or more speed connection with cable. WIth wifi on my laptop i download torrents with 21.1 mb/s speed sometimes.
We may suck at many things, but not in terms of net speed. Of course, rural villages get shit. But, well, same as any place i guess
 

hcguy

Member
Aug 29, 2019
283
768
Why didn't Dammed bother to say anything about a delay until now? The "final" progress report was in March. They're well behind with or without Alorth's vacation. All that post says is they didn't do anything for a month...while not pausing payments.

I'm not saying Alorth didn't go on vacation or his laptop didn't work, but that's not a reason to not say anything about it until now and continue to take payments while nothing is being done.

How else could he afford his vacation?
 

Halfbreed

Newbie
Jul 7, 2017
70
205
From Alorth on Discord replying to why it's taking long.

"You have all the right to voice your opinion, we won't kick you as long as you're not being disrespectful or your actions are viewed as such. It's true that we all agree that the update is taking way too long, not just the players but even us developers. The reasons for that is a big mixture... we are not only developers but also normal people, we also have family and like to play games sometimes... that means that as humans we can sometimes also get a bit lazy. On the other hand though, the update is bigger than the other ones and the branching also is a pain in the ass as it goes for the coding which would have initially taken longer one way or another, but of course not this much. Now it's true that the last month, we had planned to get the update out, but we had some inconveniences. Sorry that the waiting time is dissapointing, there isn't something we can do to turn back time... but we are already grinding the update out as fast as we can now. It looks to me like, people believe we developers are some special living creature that has no needs but just work. All the developers that are out there and have short update times, they are giving all of their free time into development, putting it on first place and everything else second. It's costing them everything, like it cost to me in the past. I used to have updates every 2 months, but I almost broke up with my gf because I had 0 time for her or other stuff. I worked, ate and sleept, nothing else, 0 playing games or so. Not to mention I even have a dog that I have to walk and give some attention. There are developers that even pass away, because they are all the time only working and being stressed about it. One of the reasons things slowed down on first place was due to health issues coming from overworking myself in the past. So to put it short, I'm taking it slower for my own good at moment and I even hired a artist to help me. You might think that it should be faster if I hire someone, but that's wrong thinking... the few artists that can do close to my quality work that I can hire, take way more time than I do with artwork, so it's not making up for me doing less work. I could hire more artists, but imagine, just for example, if i would hire any other developer out there... how drastically the quality of the game visuals would change... The visual quality is not a fixed thing of this engine, so not anyone can do it, even if they have 5 years experience with it, it might not be enough if they lack the understanding of the engine. If some genie would grant me a wish, and say... You can pick one developer, to work for you for free for the visuals so pick one... I would say, fuck it, no thanks... There wouldn't be a single one around I could pick for my own games unless I teach them for at least half a year and there are no exceptions. I don't want to seem like a high nose or something, but I'm being realistic. I was like everyone else at start, but I started to work in a different way, which made such a huge difference in quality and any other way won't be the same. Not everyone can overcome a huge wall alone... Don't get me wrong, there are good developers out there which have nice quality visuals and use the same engine, but this is also about consistency of the games and the more someone is used to work one way, the harder it is for that person to change his ways."
 

wiseold6996

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2020
1,458
1,832
From Alorth on Discord replying to why it's taking long.

"You have all the right to voice your opinion, we won't kick you as long as you're not being disrespectful or your actions are viewed as such. It's true that we all agree that the update is taking way too long, not just the players but even us developers. The reasons for that is a big mixture... we are not only developers but also normal people, we also have family and like to play games sometimes... that means that as humans we can sometimes also get a bit lazy. On the other hand though, the update is bigger than the other ones and the branching also is a pain in the ass as it goes for the coding which would have initially taken longer one way or another, but of course not this much. Now it's true that the last month, we had planned to get the update out, but we had some inconveniences. Sorry that the waiting time is dissapointing, there isn't something we can do to turn back time... but we are already grinding the update out as fast as we can now. It looks to me like, people believe we developers are some special living creature that has no needs but just work. All the developers that are out there and have short update times, they are giving all of their free time into development, putting it on first place and everything else second. It's costing them everything, like it cost to me in the past. I used to have updates every 2 months, but I almost broke up with my gf because I had 0 time for her or other stuff. I worked, ate and sleept, nothing else, 0 playing games or so. Not to mention I even have a dog that I have to walk and give some attention. There are developers that even pass away, because they are all the time only working and being stressed about it. One of the reasons things slowed down on first place was due to health issues coming from overworking myself in the past. So to put it short, I'm taking it slower for my own good at moment and I even hired a artist to help me. You might think that it should be faster if I hire someone, but that's wrong thinking... the few artists that can do close to my quality work that I can hire, take way more time than I do with artwork, so it's not making up for me doing less work. I could hire more artists, but imagine, just for example, if i would hire any other developer out there... how drastically the quality of the game visuals would change... The visual quality is not a fixed thing of this engine, so not anyone can do it, even if they have 5 years experience with it, it might not be enough if they lack the understanding of the engine. If some genie would grant me a wish, and say... You can pick one developer, to work for you for free for the visuals so pick one... I would say, fuck it, no thanks... There wouldn't be a single one around I could pick for my own games unless I teach them for at least half a year and there are no exceptions. I don't want to seem like a high nose or something, but I'm being realistic. I was like everyone else at start, but I started to work in a different way, which made such a huge difference in quality and any other way won't be the same. Not everyone can overcome a huge wall alone... Don't get me wrong, there are good developers out there which have nice quality visuals and use the same engine, but this is also about consistency of the games and the more someone is used to work one way, the harder it is for that person to change his ways."
That's a long way to say they were being lazy
 

GuyFawkes

Newbie
Dec 15, 2017
16
21
From Alorth on Discord replying to why it's taking long.

"You have all the right to voice your opinion, we won't kick you as long as you're not being disrespectful or your actions are viewed as such. It's true that we all agree that the update is taking way too long, not just the players but even us developers. The reasons for that is a big mixture... we are not only developers but also normal people, we also have family and like to play games sometimes... that means that as humans we can sometimes also get a bit lazy. On the other hand though, the update is bigger than the other ones and the branching also is a pain in the ass as it goes for the coding which would have initially taken longer one way or another, but of course not this much. Now it's true that the last month, we had planned to get the update out, but we had some inconveniences. Sorry that the waiting time is dissapointing, there isn't something we can do to turn back time... but we are already grinding the update out as fast as we can now. It looks to me like, people believe we developers are some special living creature that has no needs but just work. All the developers that are out there and have short update times, they are giving all of their free time into development, putting it on first place and everything else second. It's costing them everything, like it cost to me in the past. I used to have updates every 2 months, but I almost broke up with my gf because I had 0 time for her or other stuff. I worked, ate and sleept, nothing else, 0 playing games or so. Not to mention I even have a dog that I have to walk and give some attention. There are developers that even pass away, because they are all the time only working and being stressed about it. One of the reasons things slowed down on first place was due to health issues coming from overworking myself in the past. So to put it short, I'm taking it slower for my own good at moment and I even hired a artist to help me. You might think that it should be faster if I hire someone, but that's wrong thinking... the few artists that can do close to my quality work that I can hire, take way more time than I do with artwork, so it's not making up for me doing less work. I could hire more artists, but imagine, just for example, if i would hire any other developer out there... how drastically the quality of the game visuals would change... The visual quality is not a fixed thing of this engine, so not anyone can do it, even if they have 5 years experience with it, it might not be enough if they lack the understanding of the engine. If some genie would grant me a wish, and say... You can pick one developer, to work for you for free for the visuals so pick one... I would say, fuck it, no thanks... There wouldn't be a single one around I could pick for my own games unless I teach them for at least half a year and there are no exceptions. I don't want to seem like a high nose or something, but I'm being realistic. I was like everyone else at start, but I started to work in a different way, which made such a huge difference in quality and any other way won't be the same. Not everyone can overcome a huge wall alone... Don't get me wrong, there are good developers out there which have nice quality visuals and use the same engine, but this is also about consistency of the games and the more someone is used to work one way, the harder it is for that person to change his ways."
From a life long software developer who was always under release pressure i leave this advice: Under promise and over deliver. My bosses or clients always asked for a delivery date. I would do an analysis and give them a realistic date. They then cut it in half. It didn't take that long before i started to double the estimate. That way, I had a realistic amount of time meeting the deadlines. The other thing that i don't think is done for alot of these games is that you should spend nearly as much testing as coding.
 

Snesjosh115

New Member
Jun 15, 2017
8
27
From Alorth on Discord replying to why it's taking long.

"You have all the right to voice your opinion, we won't kick you as long as you're not being disrespectful or your actions are viewed as such. It's true that we all agree that the update is taking way too long, not just the players but even us developers. The reasons for that is a big mixture... we are not only developers but also normal people, we also have family and like to play games sometimes... that means that as humans we can sometimes also get a bit lazy. On the other hand though, the update is bigger than the other ones and the branching also is a pain in the ass as it goes for the coding which would have initially taken longer one way or another, but of course not this much. Now it's true that the last month, we had planned to get the update out, but we had some inconveniences. Sorry that the waiting time is dissapointing, there isn't something we can do to turn back time... but we are already grinding the update out as fast as we can now. It looks to me like, people believe we developers are some special living creature that has no needs but just work. All the developers that are out there and have short update times, they are giving all of their free time into development, putting it on first place and everything else second. It's costing them everything, like it cost to me in the past. I used to have updates every 2 months, but I almost broke up with my gf because I had 0 time for her or other stuff. I worked, ate and sleept, nothing else, 0 playing games or so. Not to mention I even have a dog that I have to walk and give some attention. There are developers that even pass away, because they are all the time only working and being stressed about it. One of the reasons things slowed down on first place was due to health issues coming from overworking myself in the past. So to put it short, I'm taking it slower for my own good at moment and I even hired a artist to help me. You might think that it should be faster if I hire someone, but that's wrong thinking... the few artists that can do close to my quality work that I can hire, take way more time than I do with artwork, so it's not making up for me doing less work. I could hire more artists, but imagine, just for example, if i would hire any other developer out there... how drastically the quality of the game visuals would change... The visual quality is not a fixed thing of this engine, so not anyone can do it, even if they have 5 years experience with it, it might not be enough if they lack the understanding of the engine. If some genie would grant me a wish, and say... You can pick one developer, to work for you for free for the visuals so pick one... I would say, fuck it, no thanks... There wouldn't be a single one around I could pick for my own games unless I teach them for at least half a year and there are no exceptions. I don't want to seem like a high nose or something, but I'm being realistic. I was like everyone else at start, but I started to work in a different way, which made such a huge difference in quality and any other way won't be the same. Not everyone can overcome a huge wall alone... Don't get me wrong, there are good developers out there which have nice quality visuals and use the same engine, but this is also about consistency of the games and the more someone is used to work one way, the harder it is for that person to change his ways."

Sounds to me like they wanted to make an update too big for their own good, got burned out, and life happened to them. Still doesn't fix the issues of the lack of transparency.

Nobody believes them despite everyone here bitching for answers, once given answer, just say its all lie. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

dolfe67

Forum Fanatic
Apr 25, 2020
4,479
12,152
Not to mention I even have a dog
You know the next excuse :KEK:

There are developers that even pass away, because they are all the time only working and being stressed about it.
Whaaat? is he serious?

Though I agree hiring someone won't speed up the dev that much, at least not before long. But he could reduce the number of projects he works on. And be transparent with patrons, tell them if you're stuck, with regular dev updates. Most will get it, you won't lose more of them than if you stay silent. And you know you can pause billing for a month if you didn't make progress and relieve some pressure that way
 

zedascove

Member
Jul 13, 2018
451
966
Does anyone really believe that if he worked like, say, 8h a day from Monday to Friday like everyone on planet Earth, he wouldn't have released the update a long time ago? Especially if you consider this is a Renpy visual novel we're talking about here, not some ambitious RPG with a shitload of branching quests and whatnot on top of actual gameplay systems(combat, exploration etc).

But of course there's the matter that, unlike everyone else, game developers are special beings that need 5 days a week off. How else are they gonna have time to spend with their girlfriend, walk their dog, and have a healthy life, amirite? Suddenly I feel like a superhuman because I actually work more than 8h a day(I work on research in a pharmaceutical company and at the same time have to manage multiple businesses of my own) and still have time for my wife, my daughter and my dogs(a yorkshire and a rottweiler - an unlikely "couple"). I even have lunch on sundays at my parents home with the whole family! Can you imagine that?!?

I'd cut him some slack if this wasn't his full time job. But from what people are saying, It most definitely is. And he has only himself to blame if he decided to work on 100 projects at the same time - you can't bite off more than you can chew and expect people to be happy about it.
 

Kalsan

Member
Mar 19, 2020
411
2,674
From Alorth on Discord replying to why it's taking long.

"You have all the right to voice your opinion, we won't kick you as long as you're not being disrespectful or your actions are viewed as such. It's true that we all agree that the update is taking way too long, not just the players but even us developers. The reasons for that is a big mixture... we are not only developers but also normal people, we also have family and like to play games sometimes... that means that as humans we can sometimes also get a bit lazy. On the other hand though, the update is bigger than the other ones and the branching also is a pain in the ass as it goes for the coding which would have initially taken longer one way or another, but of course not this much. Now it's true that the last month, we had planned to get the update out, but we had some inconveniences. Sorry that the waiting time is dissapointing, there isn't something we can do to turn back time... but we are already grinding the update out as fast as we can now. It looks to me like, people believe we developers are some special living creature that has no needs but just work. All the developers that are out there and have short update times, they are giving all of their free time into development, putting it on first place and everything else second. It's costing them everything, like it cost to me in the past. I used to have updates every 2 months, but I almost broke up with my gf because I had 0 time for her or other stuff. I worked, ate and sleept, nothing else, 0 playing games or so. Not to mention I even have a dog that I have to walk and give some attention. There are developers that even pass away, because they are all the time only working and being stressed about it. One of the reasons things slowed down on first place was due to health issues coming from overworking myself in the past. So to put it short, I'm taking it slower for my own good at moment and I even hired a artist to help me. You might think that it should be faster if I hire someone, but that's wrong thinking... the few artists that can do close to my quality work that I can hire, take way more time than I do with artwork, so it's not making up for me doing less work. I could hire more artists, but imagine, just for example, if i would hire any other developer out there... how drastically the quality of the game visuals would change... The visual quality is not a fixed thing of this engine, so not anyone can do it, even if they have 5 years experience with it, it might not be enough if they lack the understanding of the engine. If some genie would grant me a wish, and say... You can pick one developer, to work for you for free for the visuals so pick one... I would say, fuck it, no thanks... There wouldn't be a single one around I could pick for my own games unless I teach them for at least half a year and there are no exceptions. I don't want to seem like a high nose or something, but I'm being realistic. I was like everyone else at start, but I started to work in a different way, which made such a huge difference in quality and any other way won't be the same. Not everyone can overcome a huge wall alone... Don't get me wrong, there are good developers out there which have nice quality visuals and use the same engine, but this is also about consistency of the games and the more someone is used to work one way, the harder it is for that person to change his ways."
Oh my god! I have seen every excuse in the book for taking way too long for an update but "I have to walk my dog" just entered in my Top 10 of most ridiculous ones. The problem is that devs that have developing their games as a full time job keep seen this as a hobby and don't even spend 8 hours a day in their games or stop for stupid reasons. You can't go to your boss and tell him "you know that project that i have to deliver in 2 month? Well is going to take 12 month because I have to walk my dog and dick my girl".
 

CHAD-MAN

Active Member
Aug 12, 2017
921
2,705
Ok.

Not all devs grind to get updates out and they still do it faster and better than these 2. I will always respect Alorth but he's starting to sound like also part of the problem aswell. There's no excuse for... what, 11 months for what is going to be a barely 2 hours update with possibly no real progress whatsoever? I dont even pledge to this project anymore, but if I still did I'd probably be on a rampage if I was still fed shit like this. Nobody cares about testaments regarding excuses at this point, just release the damn thing already! The fanbase has no patience to be keeping being fed bs, enough is enough... just state how much is left to do and do it, we dont care anymore why is it taking so long, it wont make a difference anyway. So set a date and call it a day. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Good things take time, but they shouldn't take this long.
 

zedascove

Member
Jul 13, 2018
451
966
Oh my god! I have seen every excuse in the book for taking way too long for an update but "I have to walk my dog" just entered in my Top 10 of most ridiculous ones. The problem is that devs that have developing their games as a full time job keep seen this as a hobby and don't even spend 8 hours a day in their games or stop for stupid reasons. You can't go to your boss and tell him "you know that project that i have to deliver in 2 month? Well is going to take 12 month because I have to walk my dog and dick my girl".
You know, I used to hate suits in game development. I thought they hurt the creative process. It's still not entirely untrue, but today I came to realize they're a "necessary evil" in some cases. Many devs are either too lazy or disorganized(or both) and would never finish a project without someone to put them "on the leash".

Unfortunately, this is a field that lacks professionalism. Like you said, they think this is purely a hobby and that they don't have any responsibilities.
 
Last edited:

Mr. Harper

Member
Feb 25, 2020
400
756
From Alorth on Discord replying to why it's taking long.

"You have all the right to voice your opinion, we won't kick you as long as you're not being disrespectful or your actions are viewed as such. It's true that we all agree that the update is taking way too long, not just the players but even us developers. The reasons for that is a big mixture... we are not only developers but also normal people, we also have family and like to play games sometimes... that means that as humans we can sometimes also get a bit lazy. On the other hand though, the update is bigger than the other ones and the branching also is a pain in the ass as it goes for the coding which would have initially taken longer one way or another, but of course not this much. Now it's true that the last month, we had planned to get the update out, but we had some inconveniences. Sorry that the waiting time is dissapointing, there isn't something we can do to turn back time... but we are already grinding the update out as fast as we can now. It looks to me like, people believe we developers are some special living creature that has no needs but just work. All the developers that are out there and have short update times, they are giving all of their free time into development, putting it on first place and everything else second. It's costing them everything, like it cost to me in the past. I used to have updates every 2 months, but I almost broke up with my gf because I had 0 time for her or other stuff. I worked, ate and sleept, nothing else, 0 playing games or so. Not to mention I even have a dog that I have to walk and give some attention. There are developers that even pass away, because they are all the time only working and being stressed about it. One of the reasons things slowed down on first place was due to health issues coming from overworking myself in the past. So to put it short, I'm taking it slower for my own good at moment and I even hired a artist to help me. You might think that it should be faster if I hire someone, but that's wrong thinking... the few artists that can do close to my quality work that I can hire, take way more time than I do with artwork, so it's not making up for me doing less work. I could hire more artists, but imagine, just for example, if i would hire any other developer out there... how drastically the quality of the game visuals would change... The visual quality is not a fixed thing of this engine, so not anyone can do it, even if they have 5 years experience with it, it might not be enough if they lack the understanding of the engine. If some genie would grant me a wish, and say... You can pick one developer, to work for you for free for the visuals so pick one... I would say, fuck it, no thanks... There wouldn't be a single one around I could pick for my own games unless I teach them for at least half a year and there are no exceptions. I don't want to seem like a high nose or something, but I'm being realistic. I was like everyone else at start, but I started to work in a different way, which made such a huge difference in quality and any other way won't be the same. Not everyone can overcome a huge wall alone... Don't get me wrong, there are good developers out there which have nice quality visuals and use the same engine, but this is also about consistency of the games and the more someone is used to work one way, the harder it is for that person to change his ways."
This guy acts like an employee working in a Chinese company kekekeke
I'm ready to wait mental health excuse xDxD
 

BurnerGuy

Member
Aug 27, 2018
178
1,167
From Alorth on Discord replying to why it's taking long.

"You have all the right to voice your opinion, we won't kick you as long as you're not being disrespectful or your actions are viewed as such. It's true that we all agree that the update is taking way too long, not just the players but even us developers. The reasons for that is a big mixture... we are not only developers but also normal people, we also have family and like to play games sometimes... that means that as humans we can sometimes also get a bit lazy. On the other hand though, the update is bigger than the other ones and the branching also is a pain in the ass as it goes for the coding which would have initially taken longer one way or another, but of course not this much. Now it's true that the last month, we had planned to get the update out, but we had some inconveniences. Sorry that the waiting time is dissapointing, there isn't something we can do to turn back time... but we are already grinding the update out as fast as we can now. It looks to me like, people believe we developers are some special living creature that has no needs but just work. All the developers that are out there and have short update times, they are giving all of their free time into development, putting it on first place and everything else second. It's costing them everything, like it cost to me in the past. I used to have updates every 2 months, but I almost broke up with my gf because I had 0 time for her or other stuff. I worked, ate and sleept, nothing else, 0 playing games or so. Not to mention I even have a dog that I have to walk and give some attention. There are developers that even pass away, because they are all the time only working and being stressed about it. One of the reasons things slowed down on first place was due to health issues coming from overworking myself in the past. So to put it short, I'm taking it slower for my own good at moment and I even hired a artist to help me. You might think that it should be faster if I hire someone, but that's wrong thinking... the few artists that can do close to my quality work that I can hire, take way more time than I do with artwork, so it's not making up for me doing less work. I could hire more artists, but imagine, just for example, if i would hire any other developer out there... how drastically the quality of the game visuals would change... The visual quality is not a fixed thing of this engine, so not anyone can do it, even if they have 5 years experience with it, it might not be enough if they lack the understanding of the engine. If some genie would grant me a wish, and say... You can pick one developer, to work for you for free for the visuals so pick one... I would say, fuck it, no thanks... There wouldn't be a single one around I could pick for my own games unless I teach them for at least half a year and there are no exceptions. I don't want to seem like a high nose or something, but I'm being realistic. I was like everyone else at start, but I started to work in a different way, which made such a huge difference in quality and any other way won't be the same. Not everyone can overcome a huge wall alone... Don't get me wrong, there are good developers out there which have nice quality visuals and use the same engine, but this is also about consistency of the games and the more someone is used to work one way, the harder it is for that person to change his ways."
Holy shit, that is insulting. I work 60 hour weeks sometimes doing dev work, and don't make nearly as much as these guys. I still have time to walk my dogs, go on dates, etc. It can be stressful sometimes, but I enjoy the work that I do and I like to feel like I've earned my money. I envy being able to completely make your own hours and I sure as hell would take advantage of that if I could, but Alorth is acting entitled as fuck. His job isn't harder than mine, or more stressful, or more exclusive.

He got to turn a fun hobby that he was talented at into a source of income. Great! That's the dream. But don't simultaneously say "devs aren't special" and "I shouldn't have to work as hard as you to make more money than you". If you believe that, then you really do think you're special, and the rest of us out here busting our asses are a bunch of chumps.
 

zedascove

Member
Jul 13, 2018
451
966
SirDammed was just saying on Discord that one of the reasons the game is taking long is because it has a lot of "depth" and "substance" to it and a lot of branching paths.

I don't know if he's being dishonest again or if he's really that delusional, but I had a good laugh regardless.

Sure, this is a good game(so far), but a very simple one with very little depth to it. And it's not even the most non-linear even if compared to others in the genre.
 

gears

Member
Aug 27, 2016
302
305
SirDammed was just saying on Discord that one of the reasons the game is taking long is because it has a lot of "depth" and "substance" to it and a lot of branching paths.

I don't know if he's being dishonest again or if he's really that delusional, but I had a good laugh regardless.

Sure, this is a good game(so far), but a very simple one with very little depth to it. And it's not even the most non-linear even if compared to others in the genre.
Is it a mile wide and an inch deep or is it actual depth is the real question. From memory, 3 main girls, virgin coworker, whore waitress, car crash Milf, the next door neighbour, the other coworker and the Photo shoot girl. I know where I put my money, but I am happy to be proved wrong
 
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